Activists and Alternative Media vs. the 9/11 Truth Movement?

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Krystalline Kraus Krystalline Kraus's picture
Activists and Alternative Media vs. the 9/11 Truth Movement?

Salut everyone!

I've been reading stuff on babble recently and I'm totally shocked and awe'd by this framed dicussion of how people believe the activist community and the alternative media are conspiring against the 9/11 Truth Movement.

Please excuse my ignorance/innocence around this topic, I'm hoping that people can share their experiences about this topic so I can understand what the hell is going on?

Merci!

Krystalline Kraus Krystalline Kraus's picture

"3 A leading cause of the unilateral split is the work of planted agents of the state - spooks -- whose instructions are to do this splitting. The Chinese call such agents "splittists." The peace movement has been around for decades, so there's been loads of time for the national security state to install numerous agents within it. Added to their usual instructions to slyly foment divisiveness within peace groups and derail effective anti-war actions are new orders to combat the dynamic truth movement.
Point 3 is tough, I know. But it's an issue that must be confronted. I am not alone in my assessment. At the Sunday Truthers conference the first topic was "How explain the resistance to 9/11Truth in the peace movement?" Paul Zarembka, Professor of Economics at the University of Buffalo and editor of The Hidden History of 9/11, offered four reasons. His first: "agents and gatekeepers among us." Sander Hicks, author of The Big Wedding: 9/11, the Whistleblowers, and the Cover-Up, offered seven reasons. His first: "The state, COINTELPRO."

 

Source: http://www.ourowncbc.info/profiles/blogs/barrie-zwickers-report-from

Snert Snert's picture

It's true.  And sadly, the only way to combat these moles is an all out purge.  Look at your "comrade"... are you sure s/he's really dedicated to the cause?  Are they trully committed, or have they ever expressed doubts?  Have they begged out of necessary work on some weak excuse like "family" or "other commitments"?  Ask yourself, "can I afford to take the chance that this person is a planted agent?".  If you're not willing to make the difficult choice to expose and repudiate them then you may as well be standing arm in arm with them!  Call them out, and watch for the tell-tale denial that indicates your instincts were spot-on!

Fidel

Well if the left is split on the issue of 9/11, so are the ruling elite and ruling class in America. I don't know about Canada though. I think there is some division in Canada, but the division is definitely there in America and vicious empire central. The left needs to exploit this division. Americans voting either Liberal Democrat or Republican need to realize that both parties in government have been complicit in creating militant Islamic bases in various countries since the end of cold war. And the second thing we need to drive home for people is that there is no such thing as Al-Qaeda now or ever.

Trevormkidd

statica wrote:
A leading cause of the unilateral split is the work of planted agents of the state - spooks -- whose instructions are to do this splitting.

I have applied for one of these jobs.  Still waiting to hear back. 

HeywoodFloyd

Sorry Trev...got your application but I gave it to someone else on this board who does a far better job of....well....looking like a kook than you ever could.

Unionist

It's true - the whole activist community is split over 9/11. Recent polls indicate that 11 is ahead.

 

Trevormkidd

HeywoodFloyd wrote:
Sorry Trev...got your application but I gave it to someone else on this board who does a far better job of....well....looking like a kook than you ever could.

Dammit.  So much for my dream of being special agent spooKidd.

HeywoodFloyd

Trevormkidd wrote:

HeywoodFloyd wrote:
Sorry Trev...got your application but I gave it to someone else on this board who does a far better job of....well....looking like a kook than you ever could.

Dammit.  So much for my dream of being special agent spooKidd.

You'll always be special in my books Trev. But if you want we could call you Grandmaster T until you achieve your first degree in the Masons (ps, bring the goat for the blood sacrifice next week and you're done the initiation)

Fidel

Hey why can't you clowns pick another thread to swerve off topic and intimidate the author?

E.Tamaran

The biggest question from 9/11 is the collapse of building 4. It wasn't hit and its collapse was surprisingly similary to a controlled demolition. In fact, it it wasn't controlled demolition, then it's the only time a building has ever collapsed in that manner without help. It may have been the intended target of the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania, which is why it may have been wired with explosives. Instead of letting people discover the bombs it may have been deliberately destroyed to hide the evidence. Maybe.

HeywoodFloyd

Fidel wrote:

Hey why can't you clowns pick another thread to swerve off topic and intimidate the author?

 

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Fidel: Just wanted to let you know that you're bl.....er.... covered in charcoal.

Fidel: Now....do you have Prince Albert in a can?

Pot: F*(king kids!

{click}

Fidel: Hello? Hello? You'd better let him out tee hee. Dudes, we totally got him. Lets do another.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

I wonder if the Reichstag fire was started by the commies like the German government said or was it actually started by Nazis working for the government.  The cause doesn't matter its what happened next that was the problem.  That fire like 9/11 was used to invoke broad powers of detention and new laws that allowed for the implementation of a massive state security system.  

Maybe it was the government, maybe it was the Family, maybe it was the Israeli's, maybe it was Bin Laden. What matters is our country is sliding down a very slippery slope using 9/11 as the excuse. 

 

Fidel

kropotkin1951 wrote:

I wonder if the Reichstag fire was started by the commies like the German government said or was it actually started by Nazis working for the government.  The cause doesn't matter its what happened next that was the problem.  That fire like 9/11 was used to invoke broad powers of detention and new laws that allowed for the implementation of a massive state security system.

The Nazis didn't use the Reichstag fire as justification for invading Czechoslovakia, Poland, Eastern Europe, Baltics, Balkans and Russia. And if they did then European leaders likely wouldn't have been sucked-in to a phony war on Dutch-commie terror as easily.

Kropotkin1951 wrote:
Maybe it was the government, maybe it was the Family, maybe it was the Israeli's, maybe it was Bin Laden. What matters is our country is sliding down a very slippery slope using 9/11 as the excuse.

That's true, and we've already slid down the slippery slope. It's time to stop sliding and get off the slope before sliding off a cliff toward world war or more colder war. Nipping this lie in the bud is what the left needs to do. Al-Qa'eda exists only in the feeble minds of US-led NATO war hawks and millions of people they've conned into believing their bogeyman narrative surrounding 9/11.

Sineed

Trevormkidd wrote:

statica wrote:
A leading cause of the unilateral split is the work of planted agents of the state - spooks -- whose instructions are to do this splitting.

I have applied for one of these jobs.  Still waiting to hear back. 

Any idea what these jobs pay?

Fidel

Sineed wrote:

Trevormkidd wrote:

statica wrote:
A leading cause of the unilateral split is the work of planted agents of the state - spooks -- whose instructions are to do this splitting.

I have applied for one of these jobs.  Still waiting to hear back.

Any idea what these jobs pay?

[url=http://www.csis.gc.ca/crrs/fq-eng.asp]CSIS FAQ[/url] Starting salaries $50k-$72.4k

Designated tasks may be to spook Canada's native people and defer public inquiries of Tommy Douglas' file to your superior or official dead letter office, or whatever the spooky protocol says.

And now for something completely different. From statica's link to Barry Zwicker's report:

Quote:
Followers in the anti-war movement “do not realize,” as Paul Craig Roberts wrote Sept. 15th, 2009, in Information Clearing House, “that by accepting the [government’s] 9/11 explanation they have undermined their own opposition to the war. Once you accept that Muslim terrorists did it, it is difficult to oppose punishing them for the event. [Anti-war activists] do not understand that if you grant the government its premise for war, it is impossible to oppose the war.

ennir

 

I too am surprised by how closed babblers can be to certain questions, I tend to post less often as a result of that.

ennir

I will take your word on that Fidel, I am thinking of the threads on vaccinations.

Fidel

ennir wrote:
I too am surprised by how closed babble can be to certain questions, I tend to post less often as a result of that.

The few non-truthies we do have here aren't so bad. Typically they will pop-in to these threads to make a few juvenile remarks, and then they're off like whirling Dervishes to another thread topic of their intense personal interest, and typically an anti-war thread where they defend brown Asian people who are taking a shit-kicking by NATO as punishment for 9/11. And the fact that the crazy George-Obama regimes still have no legal proof of 9/11 guilt doesn't seem to concern them. Their logic on the matter says that the brown people did it, and now the anti-war movement must use this myth as the basis for  actually trying to defend millions of innocent brown people from Murder Incorporated.

A_J

E.Tamaran wrote:
The biggest question from 9/11 is the collapse of building 4. It wasn't hit and its collapse was surprisingly similary to a controlled demolition.

That's because it was destroyed with a controlled demolition:

Wikipedia wrote:
Four World Trade Center was a 9-story low-rise office building in the southeast corner of the site, in Lower Manhattan, New York City. It was damaged beyond repair as a result of the September 11, 2001 attacks and was later demolished.

You're thinking of WTC 7, which is the subject of much tinfoil-hattery.

jas

Interesting question, Statica. I didn't know this had become a topic of concern.

It does make one wonder.

Fidel

A_J wrote:
You're thinking of WTC 7, which is the subject of much tinfoil-hattery.

Yeah, that'd be the trade centre building which no planes hit and fell to the ground in a big hurry due to sheer forces of worry.

Krystalline Kraus Krystalline Kraus's picture

 

Well....actually I kinda stumbled upon this honestly. I have not met a lot of 9/11 truthers until recently when I have come into contact through my activism with a whole lot of them. And now I'm starting to hear their side of the story about how they feel the activist community in general has been treating them.

 

And more importantly! One of these guys just as I was first meeting him, jumped all over me as a representative of the alt. media community for actively undermining "the Truth" and for being complicit in the MSM's cover up of "the 9/11 truth" by also not covering "the 9/11 truth" which he claims amounts to un-solidarity censorship which should be punished. But ya, this guy totally dug into me and I didn't even know what I was being charged with.

 

But apparently, he feels that the alt. media community has let the "truthers" down by actively not covering the 9/11 story and thus, are either through omission or comission working in tandem with the state and the MSM.

Caissa

Unionist wrote:It's true - the whole activist community is split over 9/11. Recent polls indicate that 11 is ahead.

 

Caissa corrects him: Nah, Unionist. The split is 10, if you know what I mean. Wink

 

Snert Snert's picture

Quote:

But apparently, he feels that the alt. media community has let the "truthers" down by actively not covering the 9/11 story and thus, are either through omission or comission working in tandem with the state and the MSM.

 

That's my very favourite part of this story. Why won't the anti-war community support the "truthers"? Given a choice between:

 

a) most of them simply don't buy the "truthers" explanation of events

b) "agents and gatekeepers" are actively working to prevent this support

 

... buddy picks b. Occam's razor picks a.

 

I think there should be a word for people who imagine conspiracies against themselves, specifically for the self-importance bonus that brings. "Look at me, I'm so important that no expense is being spared to secretly persecute me!!!" Ya, whatever. Tongue out

Sineed

statica wrote:
But apparently, he feels that the alt. media community has let the "truthers" down by actively not covering the 9/11 story and thus, are either through omission or comission working in tandem with the state and the MSM.

I've run into these folks too, and also got myself sawed off at the knees.  Coupla points: first off, I wouldn't say there's one "activist" community - from the discussions on this site, there's a diversity of opinions around 9/11.  Secondly, there's many of us who have looked into it and have no interest in arguing how buildings are supposed to collapse with a whole lot of paranoid people completely ignorant of architecture and engineering.  

For me, it's like this: in an area where I do have knowledge - medicine - I frequently see intelligent people reach breathtakingly ignorant conclusions because they went to the "University of Google," and don't acknowledge the importance of their lack of expertise in shaping the opinions they hold (see Jenny McCarthy, whale.to, et al).  I don't know much about engineering, but I figure these 9/11 truthers are the same ilk.  If a single reputable engineer or architect stands up and says, hey; this isn't right, I'd get on-side.  But that hasn't happened.

As repulsively mendacious as I found the Dubya administration, makes more sense that they would take advantage of a cataclysmic event after the fact rather than engineer said event in the 1st place, especially considering their general competency overall.

Unionist

Caissa wrote:

Unionist wrote:It's true - the whole activist community is split over 9/11. Recent polls indicate that 11 is ahead.

 

Caissa corrects him: Nah, Unionist. The split is 10, if you know what I mean. Wink

 

Excellent! A mediated solution. 10 it is. Now the truthers and the falsers can link arms and call a truce.

 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Unionist only a corrupt Olympic judge would give anything a 10.  Are you a corrupt skating judge?

Fidel

I think part of the problem for non-truthers is that they refuse to believe they've been conned. US historian Gore Vidal said that during the cold war there was a US Miliary General who ran around the world attending cocktail parties of the rich and famous where he tried desperately to warn them of the red menace. Vidal said it worked with very many people, too. But the truth was that the Soviets never intended world domination. It was all about terrorizing the American people and millions of others around the world that profiteering warmongers and ordinary people paying taxes enjoyed a diabolical common enemy. Since the end of the cold war, war profiteers have tried to re-create a new enemy of freedom if only in people's minds. It's worked to some extent, but world opinion is still divided as to any particular group or person's guilt concerning 9/11. I think if peopel refuse to listen to reason, then all we can do is make fun of the situation with them.

Mein fuhrer, I can walk!

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v697/rabblerabble/strangelove.png[/IMG]

Sineed

Intent does not equal guilt.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Of course not intent is only the mens rea not the crime itself.  However intent plus action is how we define criminality. Catholics believe that intent is guilt.  It is not only a sin to jerk off it is a sin to think about jerking off. In human rights law intent is irrelevant because it it the effect that is being dealt with. So what ever on the intent does not equal guilt. 

HeywoodFloyd

Woot! Bingo on post 31 with 'gladios'.

 

Thank you fidel.

Fidel

Sineed wrote:
Intent does not equal guilt.

I agree. And without 9/11, there is no pretext for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The Bush administration used 9/11 in speeches to the American people and UN to persuade citizens and other countries that America is threatened by a foreign enemy, and that wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and marauding into Pakistan are acts of self-defence.

The last item on the US Military and CIA's cold war agenda was the destabilization of Central Asia."Al-Qaeda" was a cold war creation of the CIA. And the links between Al-Qaeda and the American intelligence apparatus and US military are extensive. If legal proof of 9/11 guilt is to be determined, then a transparent investigation of 9/11 should occur and sometime before anymore countries are attacked on the premise that the CIA's cold war gladios, "Al-Qaeda", are hiding out in caves or tunnels or even secret underground lairs(because that's where axis of evol leaders hide from the US Military nowadays) requiring US "mini-nukes" to kill them and some untold number of innocent bystanders written off as "collateral damage" At some point the anti-war movement should begin demanding legal evidence of 9/11 guilt and not the American Military inquisition's tortured confessions of the latest 9/11 patsies held at Gitmo Bay, Cuba.

Gulbuddin Hekmatyar is one of their superstars of cold war terrorism in Central Asia of the 1980's and 90's. And he says that all of the scheming and plotting for 9/11 took place in America and Europe. And I think that is where the guilty parties have been holed up all along. There is no such thing as Al-Qaeda. Al-Qaeda is similar to a Treadstone operation described in the Robert Ludlum series of novels. Al-Qaeda was a CIA-US Military training exercise designed for anticommunist jihad in Central Asia. They use threat of Al-Qaeda terror in countries where their proxy governments are threatened by their own citizens fighting for democracy. Al-Qaeda is really Al-CIA-da

Caissa

You can't call Bingo withoutt a Godwin, Heywood.

Fidel

Better watchout for Al-CIA'duh, HeywoodFloyd. There's one hiding behind every oil rig out there armed with a boxcutter and ready to recite the Koran until you surrender. Trust no one. And remember to support the troops!

HeywoodFloyd

Caissa wrote:
<p>You can't call Bingo withoutt a Godwin, Heywood.</p>

Crap.......who gave you the full rule book Tongue out

 

Ok. I call Yahtzee instead for the combination of "9/11", "Gladio", "Al-CIA-da", "patsies", and "anticommunist jihad"

Caissa

Okay- That's 50 points, Heywood.

Fidel

N-no, it's Al-C-I-A'D-U-H. We need a Canadian dictionary for this thread.

Pope Teddywang Pope Teddywang's picture

For the record, 1095 Architects and Engineers are calling for a new investigation.

http://www.ae911truth.org/

The current issue of American Behavioural Scientist deals largely with the phenomenon of denial, both public and academic,  surrounding 9-11.

http://abs.sagepub.com/content/vol53/issue6/

The majority of the Academic community has shown remarkably little interest over the last nine years in making money or reputations by issuing books detailing how the plan went down, how the crew got past security,how the air defenses failed, biographies of the personalites involved, minute by minute breakdowns on how all this was achieved. Nobody seems to want to go near it, except for the the few brave souls hollering bullshit.

It may be that the majority simply don't want to know, and will continue to resist being told that new evidence exists.

Imagine that you had pulled three of your own toenails out with  an exacto blade at the age of eight.

You had no idea why you had done this, and in later years became so accustomed to telling others that you had simply been born without all ten toenails, you came to believe it yourself.

Then one morning at the age of forty-two you wake up and remember having being sodomised with a jack-knife by the older brother of a schoolmate at the age of seven.

If the idea is too big and horrible to deal with, you simply repress it until you are ready to deal with it.

Several decades of isolation, violence and drug abuse may ensue before the public is ready to face the Truth About 9-11.

It may be unfair to expect too much from them.

Fidel

Thanks Pope Teddywang Laughing

[url=http://io911truth.com/home]Intelligence Officers for 9/11 Truth[/url]

[url=http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/]Patriots for 9/11 Truth[/url]

[url=http://www.opednews.com/articles/genera_alan_mil_080112_twenty_five_u_s_... US Military Officers Challenge official 9/11 Lies[/url]

[url=http://pilotsfor911truth.org/]Pilots for 9/11 Truth[/url]

[url=http://mp911truth.org/]Medical Professionals for 9/11 Truth[/url]

[url=http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/11/17/122900.shtml]Louis Freeh Charges 9/11 Commission Cover-Up[/url]

[url=http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20040525104145424]9/11 Commissioners demand 9/11 Truth[/url]

Unionist wrote:

It's true - the whole activist community is split over 9/11. Recent polls indicate that 11 is ahead.

There were attempts during the Vietnam war to delegitimize the anti-war movement as being just a bunch of hippies strung-out on drugs. But then everyday Americans began joining the protests. As everyone can see from the links above, today's anti-war movement for 9/11 Truth are not all inexperienced young people questioning war pigs about their phony pretext for phony war.

jas

Sineed wrote:

If a single reputable engineer or architect stands up and says, hey; this isn't right, I'd get on-side.  But that hasn't happened.

Right, because all these people aren't reputable.

Fidel

jas wrote:

Sineed wrote:

If a single reputable engineer or architect stands up and says, hey; this isn't right, I'd get on-side.  But that hasn't happened.

Right, because all these people aren't reputable.

And because not every single engineer and architect in the world has come forward to challenge the official lies, it is evidence of support for the lies. Therefore absence of total protest is evidence of truth. See here:

http://www.ArchitectsundEngineers4LiquidWarAgainstYetAnotherUnseenEnemy.com

Sineed

jas wrote:

Sineed wrote:

If a single reputable engineer or architect stands up and says, hey; this isn't right, I'd get on-side.  But that hasn't happened.

Right, because all these people aren't reputable.

They aren't.  From an article in the Journal of Engineering Mechanics, March 2007, under "Review of Causes of WTC Collapse:"

Quote:
As generally accepted by the community of specialists in structural mechanics and structural engineering (though not by a few outsiders claiming a a conspiracy with planted explosives...

http://www.civil.northwestern.edu/people/bazant/PDFs/Papers/466.pdf

It goes through a detailed explanation for how the building collapsed, involving math that most people don't understand (including me).

So reputable engineers and architects don't buy it.  

Sineed

whoops! double posted.

Fidel, your link doesn't work

Fidel

Sineed wrote:

So reputable engineers and architects don't buy it.

They are all naughty boys and girls who happen to be licenced engineers and architects, 80 percent of who are American and the rest from around the world. 25, 000 collective years of professional experience in structural engineering and building design expertise.

Sineed, are you also implying that we should question medical doctors and pharmacists motives and expertise when they give us medical advice and instructions on white powder pills and potions, vaccines and the like?

A_J

Caissa wrote:
You can't call Bingo withoutt a Godwin, Heywood.

"Godwin" is the free space in the middle of the board.

Fidel

Sineed wrote:

whoops! double posted.

Fidel, your link doesn't work

That's because the site doesn't exist, sorry. I presume you're for the official conspiracy theory.

And there is a long-running conspiracy when it comes to actually protecting people from the corporatocracy. No medical doctor or pharmacist is saying that cancer or other illnesses would end tomorrow if people would just stop smoking, or stop eating red meat and dairy products. Cancer specialists around the world have implied that there is a government conspiracy to coverup industrial pollution data collected over years and years. They are frustrated with telling people to eat better and exercise, because the experts know that there is something else at the root of rising incidences of various cancers and other health problems. The conspiracy is all around us in the air we breath, the water we drink, and the industrial food we have little choice but to eat.

 

jas

Sineed wrote:

They aren't.  From an article in the Journal of Engineering Mechanics, March 2007, under "Review of Causes of WTC Collapse:"

Quote:
As generally accepted by the community of specialists in structural mechanics and structural engineering (though not by a few outsiders claiming a a conspiracy with planted explosives...

Sorry, who's saying that these 1,095 architects and engineers (and a few others) are not reputable? You? Or the 3-year-old article you cite that has nothing to do with the architects and engineers who have signed their names on to this petition?

You favour the opinions of one 3-year-old article over 1,095 practising professionals? Is this how you do science?

jas

Edited my above post so as not to imply that I'm making light of your profession of pharmacist, which I'm not. Just that your areas of expertise are not those of architects and engineers.

Fidel

[url=http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=17722]Governments From Around the World ADMIT That They Carry Out False Flag Terror[/url]

It's not conspiracy theory when the gladio gang have admitted to planning and carrying out false flag terror against their own citizens and against citizens and infrastructure in other countries

Fidel

HeywoodFloyd wrote:

Caissa wrote:
<p>You can't call Bingo withoutt a Godwin, Heywood.</p>

Crap.......who gave you the full rule book Tongue out

 

Ok. I call Yahtzee instead for the combination of "9/11", "Gladio", "Al-CIA-da", "patsies", and "anticommunist jihad"

And Alberta is a good example of how governments deal in conspiracy theory. Some large number of western Canadians actually believe that they've been oppressed by socialist hordes ruling from Ottawa over the years. And the people out there fell for it hook, line and sinker years ago. The truth is that theft of the oil and gas would not have been possible if not for our "socialist hordes" in Ottawa. Western Canadians have been thoroughly and utterly brainwashed by right-rightist politicians and rightwing newz media lackies over a long period of time. They once tried to tell people that the CCF was a Bolshevik party, and that the guvmint would be right there with them in doctors examining rooms if socialized medicine was forced on Canadians.

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