Tell MEC to Stop Supporting Israeli Apartheid!

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Benjamin

Star Spangled Canadian wrote:

I'm trying to understand the issue here.

...

Leaving aside my scepticism about how much you are actually trying "to understand the issue here", one of the issues is that MEC put its entire corporate weight behind squashing a proposed member resolution at the AGM.  They did so, not because they think it singles out Israel, but because they do not want to be concerned with the rights of any stakeholders outside of their concerns for supply-side labour issues, and domestic environmental concerns.  MEC wants to define ethical sourcing in a very narrow sense, such that it can operate anywhere in the world, regardless of whether current conceptions of corporate social responsibility are broader than this narrow conception.  MEC, like all good trans-national corporations, is doing their part to narrow the scope of issues that are open for debate.

I'm not going to touch your comments regarding the morality, efficacy, etc. of a boycott, since I think this is pretty much just baiting.  I would direct you to past boycotts of certain countries, and let you do your education on your own.

Benjamin

Snert wrote:

Unlike about 99.99% of retail organizations, MEC has a co-op/membership model that encourages involvement, and provides members opportunities to influence the organization.  But because that didn't result in what you want, now an all-out boycott is "necessary"?  Well, THAT should teach them not to listen to their members, eh?  I mean, what kind of corrupt, Israel-lovin' co-op would go with what the majority of votes support??

Democracy is great, when it gives you what you hope for.

Actually, in many respects, your average public corporation is more accountable to its membership than MEC has become.  Corporations are required to have a system of proxy voting to allow their shareholders to vote, and propose, resolutions at the AGM.  MEC's approach, while consistent with its local Vancouver upbringing, does not permit, or encourage, member involvement in the AGM.  The vast majority of its members have no say in its operations. 

What percentage of its members do you think MEC actually heard from on this issue?

Star Spangled C...

Well, whether MEC actually "put its entire corporate weight" behind squashing  a member resolution is pretty far from being clearly established. It seems that there was a vote and the side you were on lost. It happens in democracy. I don't like that Stephen Harper won the last election but I accept the results.

Look, I'm all for boycotting companies that engage in unethical behaviour - whether with regards to treatment of workers, environmental degradation, huma rights abuses, etc. I'm not always successful at it but I do my best. But from what I can tell, nothing has been established about this company other than the fact that they are Israeli-owned, which in and of itself is not "unethical". If they're sold at MEC, presumably they ahve good labour standards, etc. They just happen to be based in a country with objectionable policies...which doesn't say much since pretty much every damn country has policies we can all oppose. This is about trying to punish a company because of the nationality of its owners. I'd much rather buy a backpack from MEC, made in Israel by workers who get a fair wage and good conditions than to buy something made in a sweatshop by young children getting paid 50 cents an hour.

Lard Tunderin Jeezus Lard Tunderin Jeezus's picture

Caissa wrote:

Although you can examine it's origins, fascism was essentially an inter-war phenomenon and wartime phenomenon.

Are you claiming Israel isn't continuously at war?

Lard Tunderin Jeezus Lard Tunderin Jeezus's picture

Star Spangled Canadian wrote:

If they were, indeed, bullied and threatened, then no, of course I don't. Just as I hope you would not "approve" of, for example, pro-Palestinian demosntrators assaulting and harassing people trying to hear Netenyahu give a speech at Concordia. I think it's quite possible to disagree and remain civil or at elast not descened into that kind of shit. 

I don't think that supporters of apartheid, oppression and fascism should be assaulted necessarily, but they certainly should be protested, and perhaps even 'harassed'. One is only as civil possible under the circumstances...

Caissa

Hardy, har har, LTJ.

I'm more interested in how Remind is defining "Israeli Apologist"

Snert Snert's picture

Quote:

What percentage of its members do you think MEC actually heard from on this issue?

 

Without knowing how many members showed up, and how many members there are overall, I really couldn't say. I'm TOTALLY willing to bet, though, that if whoever showed up voted to boycott, you'd be fine with it, whether it was 10,000 votes or 10. Can you really tell me, knowing that God is listening, that if the vote were in favour of boycott, you would be the one to say "Wait a minute! How many people actually showed up, and is this really representative of the beliefs of ALL members???"

 

Quote:
It seems that there was a vote and the side you were on lost.

 

Exactly. That, not some co-ordinated campaign to deny the "boycott" side their voice, is what's going on here.

Lard Tunderin Jeezus Lard Tunderin Jeezus's picture

Caissa wrote:

Hardy, har har, LTJ.

I'm more interested in how Remind is defining "Israeli Apologist"

So you've given up on claiming that there is nothing resembling fascism at work in Israel?

...guess my work is done here.

Caissa

To suggest that the government of Israel is fascist is in line with American conservatives calling Canada Socialist. Pure hyperbole.

Lard Tunderin Jeezus Lard Tunderin Jeezus's picture
Caissa

Do you want to discuss jabotinsky or whether it is accurate to call the current Israeli regime fascist? I keep feeling like you are playing bait and switch.

My position is that using terms like apartheid, fascist, Israeli apologist are not effective in the pr battle and frankly aren't accurate.

Some of us support an effective two state solution. Some here belief a two state solution isn't possib;e. Some reject the right of Israel to exist as a state.

I wish the epithets would be put away so real discussion could take place.

Cueball Cueball's picture

Snert wrote:

Quote:
Without knowing how many members showed up, and how many members there are overall, I really couldn't say. I'm TOTALLY willing to bet, though, that if whoever showed up voted to boycott, you'd be fine with it, whether it was 10,000 votes or 10. Can you really tell me, knowing that God is listening, that if the vote were in favour of boycott, you would be the one to say "Wait a minute! How many people actually showed up, and is this really representative of the beliefs of ALL members???"

Of course not. But why would it be so? We assume a certain level of political awareness from people who take an interest in co-operative ventures such as MEC. I, and my family were some of its first members when it was founded oh so long ago in Vancouver, so we find the decision made to be at odds with the progressive principles that seem evident. What should naturally be so (that the divestment resolution should pass) did not come to pass, and so one looks at what created the unexpected result, and one can see structural problems in the democratic process.

Fact is, MEC became corporate a long time ago, and "membership" is not much more than a convenient way for shoppers to get special deals, and most members have little real interest in progressive concepts of economy, Israeli fascism, Apartheid or anything else for that matter, and the board rides the corporate cow, more or less like any other corporation. Sports shopping is very much the domain of privileged white people, and driven by fad and fashion, and being white doesnt preclude being nice, and many such faddy MC people take pride in donating to causes that assauage their guilt. Some members doubless even donate to Amensty International.

Image, is in important to MEC, but real politics is far beyond its mandate. Hence the unanimous stand of the board against the resolution, and the supression of a fair democratic process by not allowing proxy voting is just more of the same. But lets be clear, the barbaric Apartheid practices of the Israeli regieme is an unfair labour practice, as is the Apartheid wall, and the Ghetoization of Gaza, because in fact all of these things have been done in such a way that they target Palestinian labour and exclude them from the economy from which they at one time participated in directly.

The kind of poverty we see today in Gaza is not the kind that comes about because the backward or undeveloped nature of Arab society in the Middle East, it is a new thing that is the direct result of Israeli policy directed not just at keeping Arab militants out, but aimed at excluding Palestinians from the economy which they helped create, after it was built on was stolen from them.

Star Spangled C...

Cueball wrote:

But lets be clear, the barbaric Apartheid practices of the Israeli regieme is an unfair labour practice, as is the Apartheid wall, and the Ghetoization of Gaza, because in fact all of these things have been done in such a way that they target Palestinian labour and exclude them from the economy from which they at one time participated in directly.

That is entirely a valid point. But it's not as if some people who own a backpack company are the ones directing Israeli security policy on behalf of the government. They're jsut people who like people around the world are trying to run a business and make a living. Targetting them won't seem to do much. It's not like you can say "We'll hurt your business unless you change your policy with regards to Gaza" since they HAVE no policy with regards to Gaza, given that they make backpacks instead of running the government. It's very different than saying to, say, Nike that you will not buy their shoes until they pay their workers a better wage. Nike is actually in a position to MAKE that change so a boycott could potentially be effective in such an instance whereas boycotting a specific Israeli company (which we would assume has good labour and environmental policies realtive to others) jsut hurts individuals - presumably Jews and Palestinians alike. The Likudniks running the government aren't going to be hurt by it. Anymore so than Fidel Castro was personally hurt by the decades-long U.S. boycott of Cuba. Not only did that boycott fail to bring about "regime change", ordinary people in Cuba were (the "victims of Castro" according to U.S. spin) were hurt by it.

Snert Snert's picture

I'm assuming that MEC's membership and voting policies are the same as they've always been.  One would think, then, that if they were so regressive as to need boycotting, people would have either boycotted them long before this one vote, or (better yet) would simply choose not to become members.

Funny, though, that all this is somehow only revealed when the members voted against a boycott.

I'll say the same to you:  if the vote had been in favour, you wouldn't give a rat's ass about whether someone in PEI didn't get the chance to cast a proxy vote against.  MEC's processes and policies would be just fine, if only they'd granted your wish.

Just out of curiousity, when you joined, were members allotted a proxy vote?  If not, why did you join?  

Cueball Cueball's picture

It would be interesting to know how many Palestinians or Arab Israeli's are actually employed by MEC's Israeli suppliers. Moreso, it would be interesting to know about their suppliers suppliers. Regardless, MEC's is in a position to not do business at all in a country which enforces an Apartheid labour practice, and purchase elsewhere.

Benjamin

Snert wrote:

Just out of curiousity, when you joined, were members allotted a proxy vote?  If not, why did you join?  

Back in the day when I joined, MEC was a one store shop north of West Broadway in Vancouver.  There was no real need for proxy voting at that time in part because there was only one store, and the vast majority of MEC's membership was in the area.  The times have changed.

And to answer your question: yes.  This country is in need of governance reform for both non-profit and profit corporations.  As it stands, there is more accountability for profit corporate entities than there is for MEC, and that accountability is minimal at best.

Cueball Cueball's picture

Snert wrote:
Funny, though, that all this is somehow only revealed when the members voted against a boycott.

I'll say the same to you:  if the vote had been in favour, you wouldn't give a rat's ass about whether someone in PEI didn't get the chance to cast a proxy vote against.  MEC's processes and policies would be just fine, if only they'd granted your wish.

Your thick as a brick, as usual. I just agreed with you.

I pointed out that the corporatization of MEC is an old issue, one that goes back many years. Decisions aren't even binding. Lol. I know this because my family are basically a founding members, though I was on small at the time. I pointed out that yes, I would not make any claims against the voting process or deficiencies thereof, because I suspect that if MEC hadn't adopted its pseudo co-operative coporate model, where the so called members, get to vote in non-binding resolutions at the AGM, it is very likely that MEC would never have started sourcing gear from a military supplier that directly profits from the imposition of Apartheid upon Palestinians and the ghetoization of Palestinians, to the point where the once thriving society is now dependent entirely on outside aid, while Israel imports thousands upon thousands of "guest  workers" from all over the world, to fill their shoes.

Cueball Cueball's picture

Source is Vagabond.

Any discussion about the lack of a relationship between Apartheid labour practices, and its source can now cease, since it it clear that the source directly profits from unfair labour practices, and the exclusion of Palestinian labour.  It is indeed a supplier of military clothing world wide according to its own web page:

Star Spangled C...

What monsters!!!

From their website:

SOURCE & THE COMMUNITY

We donate 1% of our turnover in overseas markets as we operate to help local community projects. In domestic market, we donate 5% of our turnover to similar community projects of our choosing. In addition, we donate old stocks of sandals to "Bigger than Life" - an organization of kids who suffer from cancer.

We also encourage our employees to spend 1-2 working hours each week in community projects.

Give One Chance - Support Your Community

Source's "Give One Chance" project aims to finance local community-based projects that seek to promote support to people in neighborhoods who need help. Such help could include education, a place to sleep, medicine, rescue services, a chance to experience a day outdoors, or even just a smile from someone who cares.

It works like this. We donate 1% of our turnover in each country to these projects as part of our dream and vision to create this "human-to-human network" of producers, distributors and retailers in our industry.

Our Working Place
As Source grew, we realized the importance of values and humanity in all forms and areas of our activities. We are now 150 people and we try, as an extended family, to embrace curiosity, care, responsibility, joy and fulfilment.

We strive to create a nurturing environment free of fear, and where equality, respect and liberty are a given. As a reflection of this, the highest salary at SOURCE never exceeds five times the lowest salary in net terms.

We believe that unless people can honestly identify with their workplace, and without enriching our lives with experience, education and training which in turn generates interest and personal fulfilment, no real production of quality can be achieved.

Each year 5% of the net profit of the company is divided among all workers who have been with the company more than a year. And each year, 5% of the net profit of the domestic market and 1% of our company's turnover abroad goes towards sponsoring social & environmental activities. The Fund sponsors social and environmental activities in communities around the world.

If we outsource our production to other locations for strategic or social reasons, we remain responsible that those facilities are based on the same foundations of our current business, and reflect the same values.

 

Environmental Sustainability
Cooperation, not competition, is the basis for keeping our ecosystems in balance and ensuring sustainability. We strive to ensure that our actions do not cause harm to our workers or to the environment.

We take the responisiblity to ensure that the resources we use at every stage of the manufacturing process are replaced in equal or greater quantities.

We run an ecologically-sustainable business, meeting the needs of the present without compromising the future.

Cueball Cueball's picture

Yes, monsters indeed. MEC has no business dealing with suppliers of any military gear anywhere. Of course it is virtually impossible to prevent military contractors from purchasing such gear, on the other hand it is another thing entirely to advertise oneself, and hold contracts with military operators worldwide. So if anyone was really concerned about the supposed prejuducial nature of the case against the MEC/Vagabond relationship, they can rest assured that MEC is helping kill people from Sri Lanka to the Gaza Strip by dealing with this supplier. 

Not at all suprised that an Israeli company would proudly announce its economic relationship with institutional killing machines everywhere. They are probably proud of it. Militarism is an essential part of fascist culture.

Snert Snert's picture

Quote:
 they can rest assured that MEC is helping kill people from Sri Lanka to the Gaza Strip by dealing with this supplier.

 

The supplier appears to manufacture sandals and fancy canteens. Do you suppose that it's the sandals that are being used to kill people, or the canteens?

 

Your assumption seems to be that anyone, anywhere, who supplies anything at all to the Israeli military somehow has blood on its hands. At a certain point that gets absurd. What murderer supplies them with pencils?? Who is responsible for their fascist toilet paper needs??

 

Honestly, your over-the-topness makes it sound like MEC is financing the manufacture of mustard gas. I think you need to do a quick reality check.

Cueball Cueball's picture

Do you ever read what people actually say, or do you just start with the first sentence, and then make everything else up?

Ghislaine

With seemingly 90% of companies not caring whatsoever about anything but profits, MEC stands out for taking the time to research their suppliers and discriminate based on certain standards. Now, due to this their prices are a lot higher than say buying a tent at Walmart - especially for those of us who do not really have disposible income. However, it is worth it to save and purchase from them as opposed to buying something made at the point of a gun and/or by children.

How often do those pro-Israeli boycotters even shop at MEC? And where do you suggest as a more ethical alternative?

I can not comprehend how anyone can hold all Israeli citizens guilty. There are many progressive people there, progressive communitarian movements and due to their non first past the post system, there are a wide variety of people elected. Hopefully this will have the same effect on MEC as on Israeli wine - MEC is a great company. If I had more money, I would choose them for purchases much more often.

Cueball Cueball's picture

Meanwhile, you are completely content to allow for sanctions to be imposed upon the people of Gaza because some Gazan's launch home made missiles and hope they land in Israel, and do thing like vote for people you don't like: Holding every single Gazan guilty for the actions of a few.

I don't expect you to comprehend. Hypocrisy like this can only be possible in the context of a severe logical deficit.

Left Turn Left Turn's picture

Star Spangled Canadian wrote:
Look, I'm all for boycotting companies that engage in unethical behaviour - whether with regards to treatment of workers, environmental degradation, huma rights abuses, etc. I'm not always successful at it but I do my best. But from what I can tell, nothing has been established about this company other than the fact that they are Israeli-owned, which in and of itself is not "unethical". If they're sold at MEC, presumably they ahve good labour standards, etc. They just happen to be based in a country with objectionable policies...which doesn't say much since pretty much every damn country has policies we can all oppose. This is about trying to punish a company because of the nationality of its owners. I'd much rather buy a backpack from MEC, made in Israel by workers who get a fair wage and good conditions than to buy something made in a sweatshop by young children getting paid 50 cents an hour.

First off, two of the Israeli products sold by MEC (one of these is the hydration backpacks) are manufactured primarily for use by the Israeli millitary. This is reason enough for a boycott, given the Israeli millitary's treatment of the Palestinians.

Then we add in the following (which was part of an e-mail exchange on the biac list): One of the factories is in Yavne, built on the ruins of Yabne, a Palestinian village wiped-out in 1948, and another factory is in Misgav, a settlement built in the Galilee in the 1970s as part of the Israeli government's 'Judeization' policies of that region. These factories employ Palestinians, who are paid substandard wages -- half of what Israelis would make -- are tighly controlled and live in inhuman conditions. All the more reason to boycott MEC.

I dare anyone to tell me that the above qualifies as 'ethical sourcing'.

Cueball Cueball's picture

Hard to come up with a fulsome arguement on the grounds of principled opposition to the "collective punishement", and at the same time not condemn Israeli and Canadian actions against the people of Gaza, this much is plain. Thank you for not trying.

Clearly you are just being "political" and not principled. Your opposition to one, should on principle, lead to your opposition to the latter, but because your alligiance is "national" as opposed to "principled", you defend one and support the other despite principle, and against logic, and this is at the bottom of your inability to comprehend, which you freel admit. If your alliegiance was to principle, then comprehension would be easier, because comprehension is based in logic based in postulates (or principles), nationalism is not. It is the nature of such national alliegiances, and fascist causes in general.

It would be kindness if you just stayed away from trying to argue from principle, however convenient they may seem to the immediate need of supporting the national cause that has you so besoted.

Star Spangled C...

Left Turn wrote:

 These factories employ Palestinians, who are paid substandard wages -- half of what Israelis would make -- are tighly controlled and live in inhuman conditions. All the more reason to boycott MEC.

How do you know what they make? Are you jsut speculating? My understanding from their website is that they actually have quite progressive policies with regards to wages - like profit sharing among all employees and the highest paid employee making no more than 5 times the salary of the lowest paid. Not to mention high environmental standards, giving a percentage of revenue to support charities, giving their products away to a charity that helps kids with cancer. If you think those progressive policies are outweighed by the fact that the Israeli military also purchase their products, to each their own, I suppose. I'd certainly feel better about buying something from a company with the labour practices outlined above and do it at an independent co-op store like MEC than to go (at a lower price) and buy something made in a sweatshop by children and do it at a palce like Wal-Mart which hurts local businesses, fights unionization drives, etc. But like I said, to each their own.

Snert Snert's picture

Quote:

Anyone who argues these pro-Israeli positions is wearing rose coloured glasses, but is blind in one eye.

 

Hehe. Anyone who doesn't unconditionally support a full boycott of a Canadian company, for the sole reason that they buy a product from a supplier from whom the Israeli military also buys products, is somehow taking a "pro-Israeli" position.

 

Only here. And totally priceless. I give it ten more posts, at best, before you're gravely informing babblers that by not agreeing with you, they too are responsible for murder.

Cueball Cueball's picture

No more than 5 times? Freakin radical! So you are saying that some Israeli workers only make 5 times what Palestinians make. How nice.

I knew that those opposed to boycott and sanctions were going to be reduced to "think of the children!" taling points eventually. Usually happens around the time all arguements have been shown to be founded on falsehood, or simply based in principles applied with a double standard.

Anyone who argues these pro-Israeli positions is wearing rose coloured glasses, but is blind in one eye.

Cueball Cueball's picture

Gee, and it only takes 1 post. Pick one any one, where you immdediatly put words in peoples mouths, make straw men and otherwise collude with your cosmic imagination in making arguements against arguements that were never made.

That is as far as collusion could possible go in your case. I don't think it would be possible for you to collude in outright murder. That would require some meaningful attachement to planet earth.

My point is simply this: Anyone who vocally argues the case that boycotting Israel is wrong because it is "collective punishment", and then conversly defends or otherwise stays silent on "collective punishment" against Palestinians, which is both Israeli and Canadian government policy, is, simply put either a dupe, or stupid.

Snert Snert's picture

Very well.  But your "pro-Israeli" comment seemed wrapped up in your other comments to SSC, who's saying nothing about "collective punishment" that I can see.

mosca-azul

I exchanged a couple of messages with mec about this issue in january.  I wanted to know where the factories are located - if they are in the occupied territories then the stuff can't legally come to canada under our free trade agreement with israel.  sure hope people buying the stuff aren't breaking any canadian laws - after all, we all own the store.

Lard Tunderin Jeezus Lard Tunderin Jeezus's picture

Cueball wrote:

My point is simply this: Anyone who vocally argues the case that boycotting Israel is wrong because it is "collective punishment", and then conversly defends or otherwise stays silent on "collective punishment" against Palestinians, which is both Israeli and Canadian government policy, is, simply put either a dupe, or stupid.

There are another possibilities: They could just as easily be racists, fascists, or both.

Star Spangled C...

Cueball wrote:

No more than 5 times? Freakin radical! So you are saying that some Israeli workers only make 5 times what Palestinians make. How nice.

Who said anything about "Israeli" vs. "Palestinian"?? It was "highest paid" versus "lowest paid" which is based on JOB not ethnicity. So the president of the company would only make 5 times the salary of the person who answers the phones.

Lard Tunderin Jeezus Lard Tunderin Jeezus's picture

SSC - I'm certain you already know how ridiculous your false dilemma is, but let me assure you: you are not going to be restricted to choosing between MEC and Walmart.

melovesproles

That sucks, its one of the few stores I really like, luckily there are other decent options.

Cueball Cueball's picture

Star Spangled Canadian wrote:

Cueball wrote:

No more than 5 times? Freakin radical! So you are saying that some Israeli workers only make 5 times what Palestinians make. How nice.

 

Who said anything about "Israeli" vs. "Palestinian"?? It was "highest paid" versus "lowest paid" which is based on JOB not ethnicity. So the president of the company would only make 5 times the salary of the person who answers the phones.

Who said anything about the president being called a "worker"? We have no idea that the president is defined as a "worker". I highly doubt that. this is probably the differential between lower level management, and factory workers. 

There is nothing particularly progessive about a profit based bonus system. It is most often just a lever used to extract more work out of people while paying them less. It also sounds good to people who have actually never done any work, so it gets full mention for image politics.

If it were the case that there were no racial devide between workers at the Vagabond sporting and military supplies company that MEC purchases from, I would somewhat soften my stance. But I highly doubt that, because a "socially conscious" company that obviously sees its ethical stand as being central to its image, would doubtlessly also talk about it "equity employment policy". A mention of that policy is distinctly absent from the company web site. What is not said, tells you as much as what is said often times, I find.

It would be interesting to know for sure. Do you have any data?

Cueball Cueball's picture

Turns out "source-Vagabond" has another web site called "Source-military."

Quote:
In 1999 Yoki established the SOURCE R.D.D. Center (Research Development and Design). This center employs product and textile designers, engineers and a graphic designer. The center is equipped with CAD/CAM and graphic design stations and other systems for developing military products. Yoki and most of the members of our R&D team are experienced ex officers of elite IDF (Israeli Defence Forces) units. This enables us to communicate closely with technical military staff and produce tailored solutions for any problem.

So I guess that puts to bed any notions about Source being some harmless camping goods suppliers that occassionally fills in sales orders for military outfits once and a while, in the course of its business. In fact it looks very much like a military supplier that has a "civilian" marketting branch called Vagabond that it uses to soft pedal its close relationship with Israeli apartheid, among other things.

It looks like that run a couple of sweat shops in the west bank, as well:

Quote:
We also believe that by establishing eye-to-eye business relationships with our Palestinian neighbors can make a difference and help to resolve a conflict that lasted so long and so we now work with two subcontractors in the west bank.

Cueball Cueball's picture

mosca-azul wrote:

I exchanged a couple of messages with mec about this issue in january.  I wanted to know where the factories are located - if they are in the occupied territories then the stuff can't legally come to canada under our free trade agreement with israel.  sure hope people buying the stuff aren't breaking any canadian laws - after all, we all own the store.

Indeed they have "subcontractors" who run sweat shops in the West Bank, read the above post for a link.

Left Turn Left Turn's picture

Star Spangled Canadian wrote:
Who said anything about "Israeli" vs. "Palestinian"?? It was "highest paid" versus "lowest paid" which is based on JOB not ethnicity. So the president of the company would only make 5 times the salary of the person who answers the phones.

I did. I got my info from an e-mail exchange with MEC employees that was posted to the biac list. The info that you claimed I made up.

Cueball Cueball's picture

Of course they are paid less. There is no equity policy outlined in the company fluff piece alluded too by SCC. We know that companies that truly take pride in their progressive street cred publish those, or at least mention them. Source-Military-Vagabond doesnt allude to any thing of the kind, so we know were they stand with that issue. They also make no mention of how they ensure that their "subcontractors" in the West Bank comply with the companies lofty goals, other than to provide hydration equipment for "the heat of battle" as the Source-military web site so elegantly describes it.

Why on earth would a military equipment manufacturer bother outsourcing production into the West Bank if it were not simply to take advantage of the cheap labour rates created by the complete destitution of the people their?

Thing is that SCC has never had a serious job in his life. Straight through school and into academia, so he hasn't heard all that buttery talk about "profit sharing", workplace as "family", and so on, which is all pretty much code for we will fuck you while smiling at you, as anyone who has ever seen the inside of that kind of operation knows. To him it sounds grand.

Caissa

Prithee tell us Cueball " What is a "serious job"?

Star Spangled C...

Cueball wrote:

Thing is that SCC has never had a serious job in his life.

I'm a fucking orthopedic surgeon, you idiot.  That's not "serious"? What do you do for a living? When you've cut some open while they are under a a general anaesthesia and reconstruct part of their musculoskeletal system, then you can have some credibility in commenting on the "seriousness" of my job.

Star Spangled C...

Cueball wrote:

Turns out "source-Vagabond" has another web site called "Source-military."

So I guess that puts to bed any notions about Source being some harmless camping goods suppliers that occassionally fills in sales orders for military outfits once and a while, in the course of its business.

 

I went to the military source website right now and they sell fucking BACKPACKS! Not nerve gas Backpacks. Not military grade plutonium. backpacks. Seems the only difference these backpacks adn the "civilian" ones are that these are camoflouge.

I imagine that on an IDF military base (or an American one for that matter), they serve breakfast, maybe some ceral and orange juice. If the orange juice is Tropicana and the cereal is Kellogg, does that make them "military suppliers" because they supply the military with orange juice and cereal? They're not manufacturing tanks and chemical weapons here. We're talking about sandals and backpacks.

And amid your speculation about the "sweat shops" they use in the West Bank (which, presumably would be run be Palestinian sub-contractors) I find it interesting that you omitted the lines that came directly before it. I'll copy them here:

SOURCE is an idealistic company. 10% of our profits are shared among all our workers. 5% of our net profits go to social and environmental activities in the nearby community.

We support the weak and disabled. SOURCE employs deaf workers and we also run a rehabilitation program where mentally disabled people from a nearby hospital work shoulder to shoulder with SOURCE employees.

Snert Snert's picture

Any company that would help a soldier drink water is pure evil.  PURE.  EVIL.

Lard Tunderin Jeezus Lard Tunderin Jeezus's picture

Snert wrote:

Any company that would help a soldier drink water is pure evil.  PURE.  EVIL.

...as said soldiers repress a thirsty population deliberately cut off from their own traditional water supplies by a giant concrete wall? I'd have to agree with you there, Snert. 

Funny thing, how the only time you come close to making sense is when you're trying to be sarcastic.

Star Spangled C...

So, LTJ, if these same IDF soldiers also eat Corn Flakes for breakfast (giving them the energy and nutrients they need to go and oppress people who are often lacking food) will you boycott the Kellogg corporation and any store that sells kellogg products? Lets be consistent here.

Lard Tunderin Jeezus Lard Tunderin Jeezus's picture

Will I boycott Kellogg's under such circumstance?

Absolutely. Given the horrendous abuses perpetrated by the Israeli government, I'm in favour of a general boycott of all products from Israel and any companies doing business there at this point.

The insanity has gone on long enough.

As for 'any store selling Kellogg's products', that would certainly be an unreasonable place to start; but were it necessary in the long run I would support such action as well.

Star Spangled C...

Well, I salute your consistency at least. Though I don't know why you would boycott MEC for selling backpacks that do business with the IDF but not, say, Loblaws for selling corn flakes that they presumably eat.

But if you really are committed to boycotting any company that does business with Israel, good luck. Does your computer run on Intel chips? They have a plant in Israel. Do you ever use Google? It's search engine runs on Israeli-designed algorithims. I hope that you or someone you care about never gets diagnosed with diabetes cause a recent breakthrough in treatment for diabetics was made by Israeli researchers at an Israeli university. As for companies that simply "do business" there...um, that's probably jsut about everyone. Do you run Microsoft products? I assume computers in IDF headquarters do as well. Do you drink Coke or Pepsi or wash your clothes with Tide or brush your teeth with Crest or Colgate or shave with a Gilette razor? I'd imagine every one of those companies "does business" with Israel.

Snert Snert's picture

Quote:

Funny thing, how the only time you come close to making sense is when you're trying to be sarcastic.

 

Ah. Uh, well... this is kind of awkward, but, um, you realize I'm sarcastically making an over-the-top, buffoonish statement, and you're agreeing with it? As long as you know.

 

I'm not a lawyer, but I'm wondering... if you're a business, are you permitted to say "I'm sorry, but I cannot sell my product to you, because I disagree with your politics"? Is that even legal?

 

Anyway [reality check] it's friggin' canteens [/reality check].

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