The future of politics in B.C.

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Brachina

socialdemocraticmiddle wrote:

Interesting article from an NDP strategist who isn't Brian Topp.

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2013/05/16/bc_election_offers_...

A lot of good thoughts in it for BC, but one struck me as relevant for the federal election:

Third parties cannot be ignored. Losing support on single issues or ideological flanks can cost a first-or-second place party the election, and the Internet means that the old strategy of ignoring third parties no longer works. Positions and narratives have to be crafted for multi-party competitions where, for example, being credible on supporting both extractive industries as well as the environment matters for electoral success.

Ouch, Brian Topp didn't deserve the cheap shot from Byers. Aside from that and the Federal Lib and NDP alliance I agree with most of his points too.

I still say I doubt Topp wasn't the one who pushed the no attack policy and Brian had nothing to do with the election defeat in 2009. I still fear Topp will play the price sadly.

nicky

During the federal leadership campaign Topp stressed repeatedly that negative campaigning would not work for the NDP and that the best approach would be a suuny, optimistic campaign. I think he may  have written an article promoting this thesis.

In light of this, I wonder how much influence he had in the BC NDP's disasterous turn-the-other-cheek campaign

It is ironic that Topp was the only leadership candidate to run a largely negative campaign, paticularly against Tom Mulcair.

socialdemocrati...

Yeah, the shoe doesn't fit. Topp isn't against a good attack ad or a good jab. It's not like the federal NDP didn't get in a few good digs against the other parties. They just did it with the right tone. I figured someone like Topp would understand that.

NorthReport

Liberals say their polling told them they were going to win because their internal polls, not press polls, told them they were going to win

If true is there something wrong with the NDP pollsters?

 

NorthReport

Election campaigns for the public are all about the leaders and not much else.

There is nothing wrong with a positive campaign, we need more of them, but Adrian unfortunately was the wrong salesperson.  

He was damaged goods right up to the end of the campaign because of the way the memo was dealt with. 

My goodness, why was it too much to say, I fell on my sword for Glen Clark, I made a mistake. End of story.

 

theleftyinvestor

For the heck of it, a list of all seats that changed hands, with gender trends also highlighted since the news has noted the increase in women. Note the massive turnover in Liberal holds due to retirement. Everyone was fleeing because they thought the ship was going down. For whatever it's worth, almost half of this Liberal caucus is going to be a newer set of bodies.

As far as I can tell, in only one riding did a woman replace another (New Westminster). If I'm not mistaken the total count of women goes up by 2. The NDP gains three women, retires one and loses two. The Liberals retire two women, lose three and gain seven (I cancelled out the riding change of Stephanie Cadieux, as she replaces a retiring man and a man takes her old seat).

+ = Woman replaces a man (total 10)

# = Man replaces a woman (total 8)

* = Woman replaces a woman (total 1)

~ = Man replaces a man (total 13)

 

NDP hold (retiring incumbent)

* New Westminster: Dawn Black -> Judy Darcy

+ North Coast: Gary Coons -> Jennifer Rice

*1, +1

1M, 1F -> 2F

 

Liberal hold (retiring incumbent or change of riding)

~ Abbotsford-Mission: Randy Hawes -> Simon Gibson

~ Chilliwack: John Les -> John Martin

~ Kamloops-South Thompson: Kevin Krueger -> Todd Stone

+ Parksville-Qualicum: Ron Cantelon -> Michelle Stilwell

~ Peace River South: Blair Lekstrom -> Mike Bernier

~ Prince George-Mackenzie: Pat Bell -> Mike Morris

~ Penticton: Bill Barisoff -> Dan Ashton

+ Richmond Centre: Rob Howard -> Teresa Wat

~ Shuswap: George Abbott -> Greg Kyllo

+ Surrey-Cloverdale: Kevin Falcon -> Stephanie Cadieux

# Surrey-Panorama: Stephanie Cadieux -> Marvin Hunt

~ Surrey-Tynehead: Dave Hayer -> Amrik Virk

# Vancouver-False Creek: Mary McNeil -> Sam Sullivan

+ Vancouver-Fraserview: Kash Heed -> Suzanne Anton

~ Vancouver-Quilchena: Colin Hanson -> Andrew Wilkinson

# West Vancouver-Sea to Sky: Joan McIntyre -> Jordan Sturdy

~9, +4, #3

13M/3F -> 12M/4F

 

Liberal gain (from IND or NDP)

~ Abbotsford South: John van Dongen (IND) -> Darryl Plecas

+ Boundary-Similkameen: John Slater -> Linda Larson 

+ Cariboo North: Bob Simpson (IND) -> Coralee Oakes

# Chilliwack-Hope: Gwen O'Mahony -> Laurie Throness

# Coquitlam-Maillardville: Diane Thorne -> Steve Kim

~ Delta North: Guy Gentner -> Scott Hamilton

+ Fraser-Nicola: Harry Lali -> Jackie Tegart

~ Maple Ridge-Pitt Meadows: Michael Sather -> Doug Bing

+ Port Moody-Coquitlam: Joe Trasolini -> Linda Reimer

~ Surrey-Fleetwood: Jagrup Brar -> Peter Fassbender

~3, +4, #2

7M/2F -> 5M/4F

 

NDP gain (all from LIB)

+ Burnaby-Lougheed: Harry Bloy -> Jane Shin

~ Saanich North and the Islands: Murray Coell -> Gary Holman

# Vancouver-Fairview: Margaret MacDiarmid -> George Heyman

# Vancouver-Point Grey: Christy Clark -> David Eby

+1, ~1, #2

2M/2F -> 3M/1F

 

Green gain (from LIB)

# Oak Bay-Gordon Head: Ida Chong -> Andrew Weaver 

1F -> 1M 

 

nicky

I read somewhere that something like 20% of the voters cast ballots in the advance poll which will not be counted till next week.

There may be some grounds to hope this will shift a few more seats to the NDP. Those voting in advance may not have been part of the last minute swing to the Liberals. Also it may reflect an NDP emphasis on having its supporters vote early.

I have also heard that the NDP won the Victoria by-election on the strength of the advance poll and in fact was behind on those votes cast on election day.

 

 

Jacob Two-Two

Be funny if they were almost all NDP and turned the whole election around. Now that would be a roller coaster.

janfromthebruce

I find it odd that advanced polls aren't counted on election day. I know in Ontario elections, both provincial and federal that the advance poll boxes are opened the same time as the regular boxes of election day. That would be an odd way of doing election business (just saying).

And the turn the other cheek, would be a leader decision. Jack didn't like the dirty politics but it didn't mean that he didn't go directly at misinformation or facts of others. eg. Iggy not showing up for work.

 

JKR

Layton's effective positioning against Ignatieff was greatly aided by the Conservative's huge attack campaign against Ignatieff. It may have been a mistake to take a lot of the battle stragety of the 2013 federal NDP campaign to the 2013 provincial BC campaign. The BC NDP was in a very different position than the federal NDP was. The federal NDP under Layton was in third place in a four-way race while the BC NDP led significantly in a two-way race. The federal election saw the Harper government target the Ignatieff Liberals so the federal NDP won a lot of support on the left by default because of the Conservative's successful attack ads so it made sense for the federal NDP to take a positive approach and just watch the other parties discredit each other. But the BC NDP were not in the position the federal NDP was in. They were being attacked like Ignatieff's distant 2nd place party was but they were in a strong first place position like Harper's party was. Strategically, the BC NDP was in a position closer to the Harper Conservative's than the Layton NDP. In retrospect Dix's NDP should have attacked the BC Liberals like the Harper Conservative's attacked the Ignatieff Liberals. The downside to that strategy would have been that it could have helped both the BC Conservatives and the BC Greens but those parties were so far behind they had little chance of winning. If the BC NDP had attacked the BC Liberals aggressively it probably would have worked for Dix as it had worked for Harper and it may have even led to a "blue wave" BC Conservative official opposition. The BC NDP may have lost because it attempted to fight the last war.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

I believe they have already counted the advance ballots that were cast in the riding that the voter lives in. So my advance ballot was counted already on election night.  What they are counting seems to be the ballots that people cast in other ridings and the mail in ballots.  Those were gathered up in each riding and then presumably will be counted together and the votes allocated to the proper riding.

 

 

Brachina

http://m.news1130.com/2013/05/15/students-elect-ndp-government-in-mock-e...

These are the future and clearly smarter then thier parents, we just have to learn how to get them to vote and take back thier future.

NorthReport

Dimitri Pantazopoulos, the Liberal internal pollster, was confident of a Liberal victory - his polls were showing 48 seats for the Liberals.

 

NorthReport

Best comments I have seen so far from an NDPer about what happened.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/commentary/we-new-democrats-brought-this-...

 

tyoung

I completely agree. I, too was fooled by the polls, as, so it seems, was my union. Education was absent from this campaign,with the bctf conspicuously silent other than a few weak emails to members. They must now find a way to minimize the continued damage that the coming legislated contract will do.

Ramsey spent a lot of time as minister of education in the 90's;I would love to hear his thoughts on what the bctf's next move should be.

Aside: I haven't posted here in about 10 years, great to see this site is as lively and well-populated with intelligent discourse as ever!

NorthReport

So the public polls were wrong. But what about the NDP internal pollsters? Who are they anyways?

What is going to be the longterm damage done to the BC NDP as a result of this incompetent managed campaign?

And this is definitely worth a read.

http://therealstory.ca/2013-05-16/bc-politics/take-it-from-the-topp

NorthReport

What would the BC Liberals have done if Adrian Dix had a child and a reporter in his vehicle, and Adrian had gone through a red light, and the child basically dared Adrian to do it, by saying why not Adrian, you go through red lights all the time, which was printed in the Vancouver Sun, right in the middle of the election campaign?

Answer: I'm 100% certain the BC Liberals would have not done what the BC NDP and their brilliant campaign management team did. 

Centrist

Well... here is Brian Topp's first post-election response that I can find:

Quote:
Brian Topp says:May 16, 2013 at 3:47 pm

Ian this is an ill-tempered post. I was thanking our incredibly hard-working campaign team, and telling them the truth, which is that this result did not happen because of anything wrong with their work or their effort. Clearly we made some grave strategic mistakes. I take my full measure of responsibility for them. I’ll write about this, once our leader has spoken publicly about the campaign. I’m not sure how much we’ll learn from bitter score-settling. Bt

 

And from the same blog what appears to be one NDP campaign manager's assessment of Head office:

Quote:
I believe that the central campaign needs to wear this stunning loss. All the local campaigns worked their guts out. In my opinion, the incessant and greedy begging for money from Burnaby pissed off locals and deprived the local campaigns of badly needed dollars. The non-stop and uncoordinated IVRs and VBMs, along with uncontrolled and apparently unsupervised central phoning didn’t help either. We got 24 volunteer slips from one round, and only one real volunteer. It also came with 34 sign slips; of which 12 had actually requested a sign. Every New Democrat should be mortified at the mess that passed for a campaign that came out of Burnaby.

http://therealstory.ca/2013-05-16/bc-politics/take-it-from-the-topp/comment-page-1#comments

NorthReport

 - a few other comments from the same website

  1. Sue says:May 16, 2013 at 5:25 pm

    Love the comment from Mr. Topp, who I actually voted for when he ran for leader. Silly me. Telling you, Ian, that you shouldn’t post this is ridiculous. Last time I looked, members are allowed to have opinions.

    Mr. Topp, if you’re reading this: how dare you? How dare you work with the party while you’re partnered in business with Boessenkool and Guy! I’m certain everything was on the up and up but my gawd man how can you be in business with these guys?

    Color me flabbergasted. Oh, and btw, as long as Dix is leader, I will not be giving any more dough to the party. It’s a waste to do so. He is not, and never was, leadership material.

  2. AKF says:May 16, 2013 at 5:40 pm

    ^What Leah said.

    Oh, and Mr. Topp, you can stop sending those e-mails asking for money. I contributed the equivalent of two day’s wages to the recent NDP campaign. The NDP will not see another nickel of my hard-earned money until there’s been a thorough house-cleaning, with you being the first to be swept out the door. Having found out who your business partners are, I’m appalled that you were hired to manage the BC NDP Campaign. Appalled.

  3. Garth says:May 16, 2013 at 6:05 pm

    Like my brother Ian, I’ve been working on NDP elections for years. My first was Charlie Barber and Gordon Hanson, when they beat Sam Bawlf and that other guy ( I’ve always wondered who put the NDP bumper sticker on Bawlf’s govt car).
    I confess I too was disappointed in the campaign. Challenging someones record or their lack of comment, like our premier did throughout the campaign is not negative. I do hope that next time we remember this. To Brian I say this, it is not an ill tempered post. It is the elephant in the room that needs to be stated and addressed

  4. Garth says:May 16, 2013 at 6:09 pm

    oops : I meant to say:Challenging someones record or their lack of comment, like our premier’s lack of substance during the campaign is not negative .

 

janfromthebruce

well I see we need our pound of flesh. Sure looks like we are eating our own, just like the libs. I have to say it because it makes me sad. And disgusted.

cya all, I can't be a part of this.

NorthReport

Definitely worth a read.

www.therealstory.ca

http://therealstory.ca/2013-05-16/bc-politics/take-it-from-the-topp/comm...

Probably the best comment board in BC on the BC Election results

Stockholm

Its worth a read...if you enjoy a lot of petty, vindictive personal attacks and insults with not one constructive comment made.

A week ago when people thought the NDP was going to win, everyone thought the campaign was fantastic, then the NDP lost and suddenly all these "know it alls" come out of the woodwork. I'm not defending every decision the campaign team made and I agree that there should be self-examination, but I think that EVERYONE working on the campaign was working 100% in good faith trying to win the election - sometimes a strategy works sometimes it doesn't - everyone has 20/20 hind sight.

I have no problem with people making CONSTRUCTIVE comments about what should have or could have been done differently in this campaign - but when people start spreading innuendo implying that key members of the campaign were disloyal traitors trying to purposely sabotage the campaign - stop right there. Nothing is gained by having the BC NDP descend into a federal Liberal style circular firing squad.

Aristotleded24

janfromthebruce wrote:
well I see we need our pound of flesh. Sure looks like we are eating our own, just like the libs. I have to say it because it makes me sad. And disgusted.

cya all, I can't be a part of this.

Stockholm wrote:
Its worth a read...if you enjoy a lot of petty, vindictive personal attacks and insults with not one constructive comment made.

A week ago when people thought the NDP was going to win, everyone thought the campaign was fantastic, then the NDP lost and suddenly all these "know it alls" come out of the woodwork. I'm not defending every decision the campaign team made and I agree that there should be self-examination, but I think that EVERYONE working on the campaign was working 100% in good faith trying to win the election - sometimes a strategy works sometimes it doesn't - everyone has 20/20 hind sight.

I have no problem with people making CONSTRUCTIVE comments about what should have or could have been done differently in this campaign - but when people start spreading innuendo implying that key members of the campaign were disloyal traitors trying to purposely sabotage the campaign - stop right there. Nothing is gained by having the BC NDP descend into a federal Liberal style circular firing squad.

I agree that we should not eat our own, but while some of the comments may be over the top, they do acknowledge a deep frustration that has been simmering a long time, and that needs to be aired out in order to restore people's faith in the political process. What I find really frustrating is that we are supposed to just trust that the strategists know what they are doing. The truth about these strategists is that they live lives very far removed from the average person, and are not as adversely affected by decisions of governments like Christy Clark as the average person is. Rank-and-file party members, who live among the general population and understand how the average voter responds to politics, aren't given any real sway over the party's procedures, and are only valued to the extent that they are giving their time and money. Of course those 2 things are important, but people need to see that their time and money are well spent. This reduces the communication strategy of the party to a marketing exercise, where the only thing the party has to do is to "market" itself better. I've seen in my own building what people think of being bombarded with flyers and ads, especially ads that are political in nature. They end up in the trash can by the mailbox. This is especially the case in Manitoba, where I have let my membership lapse because there's not much for members to do other than donate money, and any concerns that are raised, we are simply told to shut up and stand in line because the Big Bad PC Wolf will blow the house down. Don't give me this crap about "things will be worse under a PC government," because when you're living on social assistance and the rates have not gone up in nearly 2 decades (the Chamber of Commerce and the PC Leader, among others, have called out Manitoba's NDP government on this travesty), or you're struggling to survive on 2 minimum-wage jobs, the only thing you konw is that none of the politicians care about you and that caring about politicians is a waste of time because they're all the same and that the politicians will keep lying to you once you're elected. The professionalization of the NDP at all levels in this country is worrisome because it separates the party from the working people that it claims to represent.

So my message to the NDP: If you want me to be generous with my limited time and money, then give me a meaningful stake in the direction of the party so that I can see that my contributions will be put to effective use.

theleftyinvestor

In particular it seems that strategists were tuned into the reality that starts on Vancouver Island and ends in Burnaby - the geography of everywhere that the NDP gained seats. The seat losses all happened east of Burnaby and north of Vancouver. Which in part explains the severe disconnect that activists in the city are feeling. On the ground, here, it *really* felt like the polls were right and the province was turning orange.

NorthReport

This just confirms your lack of awareness about politics and what people were saying on their blogs in BC. Carry on Stock.

Stockholm wrote:

Its worth a read...if you enjoy a lot of petty, vindictive personal attacks and insults with not one constructive comment made.

A week ago when people thought the NDP was going to win, everyone thought the campaign was fantastic, then the NDP lost and suddenly all these "know it alls" come out of the woodwork. I'm not defending every decision the campaign team made and I agree that there should be self-examination, but I think that EVERYONE working on the campaign was working 100% in good faith trying to win the election - sometimes a strategy works sometimes it doesn't - everyone has 20/20 hind sight.

I have no problem with people making CONSTRUCTIVE comments about what should have or could have been done differently in this campaign - but when people start spreading innuendo implying that key members of the campaign were disloyal traitors trying to purposely sabotage the campaign - stop right there. Nothing is gained by having the BC NDP descend into a federal Liberal style circular firing squad.

NorthReport

Not Done Properly: Dix's Dips failed British Columbians

http://2010goldrush.blogspot.ca/2013/05/not-done-properly-dix-and-dips-f...

NorthReport
NorthReport
Stockholm

These blogs make some valid points that I agree with. Its nice that unlike some of the vicious stuff on that realstory.ca blog they don't resort to the personal attacks and slander and innuendo. By all means let's have a healthy post-mortem on what went wrong and what could have been done fifferently - but let's leave witch hunts and vicious personal attacks out of that process. It serves no useful purpose.

NorthReport
NorthReport

The author of the www.therealstory.ca  blog probably knew better than 99.9% of any pundits, commentators, pollsters, what was actually taking place on the campaign trail.   

Even being out of the country, Mr Reid had the followed article posted as his lead article on his website beginning April 29th until May 13th, one day before the actual election, which accounts for entirely one half of the entire election period. He got it, while our campaign management team didn't. It obviously could have been the final straw for BC Liberal supporters but no.......... This has got to be the biggest campaign screwup in current political history in Canada. 

http://therealstory.ca/2013-04-29/bc-liberals/the-red-light-factor

And Mr Reid is a very loyal New Democrat 

Stockholm wrote:

These blogs make some valid points that I agree with. Its nice that unlike some of the vicious stuff on that realstory.ca blog they don't resort to the personal attacks and slander and innuendo. By all means let's have a healthy post-mortem on what went wrong and what could have been done fifferently - but let's leave witch hunts and vicious personal attacks out of that process. It serves no useful purpose.

NorthReport

Thanks to Norm Farrell for reminding us of this quote  Smile

When I despair, I remember that all through history the ways of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants, and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible, but in the end they always fall. Think of it--always.

- Mahatma Gandhi

NorthReport

This is what concerns me, but let's bury our collective heads in the sand, and pretend none of this is happening or has happened, and we can feel so much better.

I don't think many folks quite realize what happpened here on May 14th in BC, for BC politics, and for Canadian politics.

But they eventually will. 

The BC Liberals: One of the First Things they should do! #bcpoli #canpoli #@christyclark

I think one of the first things they should do, now that the Green party of BC has won a seat, is to grant them official party status. It’s within the rules of the house to do that and would be the nice thing to do right?

Yes but they should do it but not because it’s nice or right, right. The BC Liberals should grant official party status because it would all but guarantee them election victory in 2017.

How?

If you believe as a lot of people do that the Green vote split caused the NDP to lose a number of seats they should have won, then granting them that status will allow them to get even stronger and split the vote in even more seats in the future.

It would allow Premier Clark to further distance herself from Gordon Campbell who refused the BCNDP Official party status after they were thrashed in the polls and reduced to 2 seats in 2001.( This staement assumes that Clark does not get 801′d by her own party even though she won an election)

Thirdly and just as important; is that this election was one the NDP should have won, not just because of the polls but because of all the scandals and mayhem caused by the Liberal party. It was BCNDP’s to lose and lose they did.

Furthermore, with the rise of the Green party, this election was probably the NDP’s best and last chance to win an election in this province.

Granting first party status to the Greens would make the turmoil that was seen in the NDP with the beheading of Carol James seem like a walk in the park.

That turmoil, if you believe the BCNDP is a provincial arm of their Federal party, would also extend itself into the next federal election in 2015.

That would benefit either of the forces in the BC Liberals, Conservative or Liberal.

Extending an olive branch to the Greens and granting them first party status would be a win win for a party who likes quick wins.


http://politicalinsider.ca/the-bc-liberals-one-of-the-first-things-they-...

NorthReport
NorthReport
Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Honestly, I'm having trouble blaming Dix or Topp for the election campaign. Like others, I have been a bit miffed at the way Topp hasn't taken responsibility for its disastrous failure (although I can also understand it after the two years he's had). I've also criticized the campaign for its excessive appeal to centrist values and attempt to talk down to the expectations of its more leftist base. But no one thought they would lose. I mean, no one. Not even the Liberals -- I call bullshit on their internal polling. I think insiders thought it would be closer, but never another Liberal win. So yes, there is a lot of analysis and criticism to be done, but how can you turn on a campaign all good sense was saying was winning? I find it a bit rich that anyone can call for the heads of Topp or Dix when everyone was predicting an NDP majority Tuesday morning -- even the realstory.ca predicted 54 NDP seats -- which is even more than most avid partisans predicted. And then he turns around and pillories Brian Topp? Chutzpah.

NorthReport

Therealstory.ca blog author was upset with Topp for the same reasons - not taking responsibility.

Many or most thought the NDP would win, but only because of the polls.

Certainly many were not at all feeling comfortable with the campaign - there were just too many red flags, and they were out there for all to see.

There is a huge amount of denial out there, and it does not appear to be going away. At least not yet.

What about the BC NDP's internal polling?

I was pleased however with David Eby's letter.

 

onlinediscountanvils

Aristotleded24 wrote:
The truth about these strategists is that they live lives very far removed from the average person, and are not as adversely affected by decisions of governments like Christy Clark as the average person is. [...] Don't give me this crap about "things will be worse under a PC government," because when you're living on social assistance and the rates have not gone up in nearly 2 decades (the Chamber of Commerce and the PC Leader, among others, have called out Manitoba's NDP government on this travesty), or you're struggling to survive on 2 minimum-wage jobs, the only thing you konw is that none of the politicians care about you and that caring about politicians is a waste of time because they're all the same and that the politicians will keep lying to you once you're elected. The professionalization of the NDP at all levels in this country is worrisome because it separates the party from the working people that it claims to represent.

I couldn't agree more with this.

 

Stockholm

NorthReport wrote:

Therealstory.ca blog author was upset with Topp for the same reasons - not taking responsibility.

Hang on a second, he claims Topp was "avoiding responsibility" because he didn't have enough mea culpas in an INTERNAL e-mail that was leaked to him that was a message intended for the staff working on the central campaign to thank them for their efforts. There is plenty of time for people to "take responsibility" and discuss what went wrong...btw: I haven't seen Adrian Dix personally apologize for the entire campaign - how come no one is posting vicious personal attacks directed at him??

We don't know the whole story behind why and how decisions were made and who was responsible. I have no issue whatsoever with Ian Reid for saying his piece - I am reacting more at some of the vicious comments to his blog posting that are full of ad hominem personal attacks and innuendo - and this has no place in the NDP.

So far there seem to be two kinds of people: 1) people who want to seriously examine what went wrong in the campaign, see what lessons have been learned and think about how we can avoid this happening again in 2017 and 2) people who just want to find a scapegoat they can blame so they can have fun tarring a feathering a few people.

I consider myself part of group 1) where do others stand?

 

NorthReport
Stockholm
josh

Quote:
Yet Mr. de Jong’s message was consistent with the Liberals’ cranked-up rhetoric about the scary NDP. Although Christy Clark delivered it with a beaming smile, it was still the same age-old theme that has defined elections in this polarized province since premier W.A.C. Bennett uttered his legendary warning 44 years ago: “The socialist hordes are at the gates, my friends!” And, as it has in almost every election campaign in which the NDP appeared on the verge of victory, the tactic worked. Although other factors play a role and circumstances vary, voters still draw back at the last minute and voice their fears at the ballot box. An exit poll conducted by Ipsos Reid indicated that 11 per cent of voters made up their minds only when they marked their X. Most of them voted Liberal.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/bc-liberal-rhetoric...

NorthReport

Libby Davies has stated you run in every election as if your life depended on it - guess the BC NDP forgot about that.

Aristotleded24

NorthReport wrote:
Libby Davies has stated you run in every election as if your life depended on it - guess the BC NDP forgot about that.

As did the late Ralph Klein, even though he never had to worry.

adma

Does anyone else fear that in this post-election wha'appen disarray, things could actually get worse for the BC NDP before they get better?  Y'know, a la the Sask NDP under Dwaine Lingenfelter?

janfromthebruce

yeah, we're doomed and so better just pack up and fold shop. Why waste our time. Ditto for babble/rabble. It's a waste of space too.

Stockholm

adma wrote:

Does anyone else fear that in this post-election wha'appen disarray, things could actually get worse for the BC NDP before they get better?  Y'know, a la the Sask NDP under Dwaine Lingenfelter?

The two situations are totally different. In Saskatchewan the NDP had just lost power after being in office for 16 years. Also Brad Wall is a very capable adversary who hasn't made many major mistakes as Premier...Christy Clark on the other hand is still an erratic, accident-prone, dreadful Premier and the Bc Liberals better change their name to Social Credit and start rpinting some "funny money" if they hope to EVER balance a budget.

 

jerrym

The NDP failed to win because it did not focus on the economic question. While pointing out that Scandavian or NDP-run provincial economies show that social democracies are globally competitve and socially successful may be a acknowledged by political junkies, it will never register with the casual voter or the disinterested non-voter because they will simply ignore information that they cannot check against their personal lives and communities. 

Dix at the start of the next legislative session, should start the next legislative session by demanding that Christy live up to her trillion dollar LNG fantasy pipedream and let her know that the NDP will be here to hold the Liberals to account. The NDP should point out the this pipedream is growing ever more questionable as time passes. The NDP should not wait until this pipedream has failed because it has virtually no chance of success, and, if by some miracle beyond my compreshension, it does succeed there is no chance of the NDP winning the next election. It also needs to point out the environmental risks associated with the increased tanker traffic, pipeline leaks, and First Nations blocades.

Even now the recently signed Russia-China pipeline deal raises major eonomic questions as the counted on much higher Asian energy prices drop as supply increases. When coupled with China's own fossil fuel production, as well as Australia's and Indonesia's (see below), most of which will be exported to Asian nations, prices will drop and supplies and carbon dioxide levels will increase well above the 400 ppm carbon dioxide level we just passed this week.  In fact, Woodside Petroleum has just cancelled the Australian Browse Basin natural gas field project because of market competition. 

http://rt.com/business/china-become-russia-biggest-oil-client-667/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/jan/22/china-australia-carbon...

Point of No Return study

http://nols.blogs.com/nols_news/2013/04/natural-gas-project-cancelled-in...

However, the NDP will also need a set of economic policies that attract voters, especially those in the Interior, where alternative employment is rare in many of the towns, moving to another job often means moving the family to another community, selling your home in a depressed market in one industry towns at a loss when the industry shuts down. The Liberals knew this and capitalized on it during their campaign.You can bet they will try it again in the next election. 

People in the Interior often feel urban people and politicians do not understand their concerns, as I learned from three years of living there. It is no accident that the only ridings the NDP won in the Interior were its traditional Kootenay ridings. Without an set of economic policies that helps win some of these Liberal ridings, the NDP will be in opposition again. 

 

 

jerrym

jerrym wrote:

The NDP failed to win because it did not focus on the economic question. While pointing out that Scandavian or NDP-run provincial economies show that social democracies are globally competitve and socially successful may be a acknowledged by political junkies, it will never register with the casual voter or the disinterested non-voter because they will simply ignore information that they cannot check against their personal lives and communities. 

Dix at the start of the next legislative session, should start the next legislative session by demanding that Christy live up to her trillion dollar LNG fantasy pipedream and let her know that the NDP will be here to hold the Liberals to account. The NDP should point out the this pipedream is growing ever more questionable as time passes. The NDP should not wait until this pipedream has failed because it has virtually no chance of success, and, if by some miracle beyond my compreshension, it does succeed there is no chance of the NDP winning the next election. It also needs to point out the environmental risks associated with the increased tanker traffic, pipeline leaks, and First Nations blocades and the failure to sign treaties.

Even now the recently signed Russia-China pipeline deal raises major eonomic questions as the counted on much higher Asian energy prices drop as supply increases. When coupled with China's own fossil fuel production, as well as Australia's and Indonesia's (see below), most of which will be exported to Asian nations, prices will drop and supplies and carbon dioxide levels will increase well above the 400 ppm carbon dioxide level we just passed this week.  In fact, Woodside Petroleum has just cancelled the Australian Browse Basin natural gas field project because of market competition. 

http://rt.com/business/china-become-russia-biggest-oil-client-667/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/jan/22/china-australia-carbon...

Point of No Return study

http://nols.blogs.com/nols_news/2013/04/natural-gas-project-cancelled-in...

However, the NDP will also need a set of economic policies that attract voters, especially those in the Interior, where alternative employment is rare in many of the towns, moving to another job often means moving the family to another community, selling your home in a depressed market in one industry towns at a loss when the industry shuts down. The Liberals knew this and capitalized on it during their campaign.You can bet they will try it again in the next election. 

People in the Interior often feel urban people and politicians do not understand their concerns, as I learned from three years of living there. It is no accident that the only ridings the NDP won in the Interior were its traditional Kootenay ridings. Without an set of economic policies that helps win some of these Liberal ridings, the NDP will be in opposition again. 

 

 

NorthReport

This is a valid question, as the Greens now have a foothold in BC politcs for the first time, and just watch the support they will be getting from the mainstream press.

At least one blogster has already suggested if the Liberals were smart they would give the Greens official party status in the Ledge. 

adma wrote:

Does anyone else fear that in this post-election wha'appen disarray, things could actually get worse for the BC NDP before they get better?  Y'know, a la the Sask NDP under Dwaine Lingenfelter?

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