The future of politics in B.C.

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Aristotleded24

NorthReport wrote:
This is a valid question, as the Greens now have a foothold in BC politcs for the first time, and just watch the support they will be getting from the mainstream press.

At least one blogster has already suggested if the Liberals were smart they would give the Greens official party status in the Ledge. 

adma wrote:

Does anyone else fear that in this post-election wha'appen disarray, things could actually get worse for the BC NDP before they get better?  Y'know, a la the Sask NDP under Dwaine Lingenfelter?

How about learning from the George Heyman campaign?

NorthReport

Why the switch and who made the decision?

How the BC NDP blew the election

the BC NDP disconcertingly switched polling firms during the campaign and didn’t conduct rolling polls in key swing ridings to pick up trends and adjust its campaign, as the BC Liberals did. The BC NDP, instead, relied on internal province-wide surveys.

http://vancouver.24hrs.ca/2013/05/20/how-the-bc-ndp-blew-the-election

duncan cameron

My take on what happened and what lies ahead is here: http://rabble.ca/columnists/2013/05/capitalists-win-all-others-lose-bc-e...

NorthReport

Yes indeed, George Heyman was a superb candidate, who ran an excellent campaign.

 

What Now for BC's New Dems?

Back in opposition, they face a Premier Clark holding a blank cheque.

http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2013/05/21/What-Now-for-BC-NDP/

Fidel

[url=Capitalists">http://rabble.ca/columnists/2013/05/capitalists-win-all-others-lose-bc-e... win, all others lose in B.C. election[/url]

Duncan Cameron wrote:

The capitalists won the B.C. election. Extractive industries make big profits in the province, and have bigger plans for its future. More port facilities for coal exports to China, Liquefied Natural Gas (LNG) plants, new pipelines across the mountains, increased tanker traffic in the Vancouver Harbour, and through coastal waters; these environmental disasters in the making represent lucrative ventures to Liberal backers.

Corporations support the BC Liberals as a form of insurance protecting shareholder privileges. Most of the business and commercial world follows the corporate lead. ...

Thanks Duncan. Always look forward to reading your expert opinion on neoliberalism. As Duncan said the NDP still won a significant 39% support. British Columbians are still smart voters as far as I am concerned. The NDP won a significantly large share of the vote and proportionally so as well. It's the Liberals who were disproportionately rewarded with excessive power by an electoral system that is broken. And as Duncan hints at, money and corporate influence should have no more influence on the vote than ordinary citizens. One citizen should equal one vote. "Dollar democracy" is not the real thing.

NorthReport

What are the equivalent stats for the Liberals and other parties?

bekayne

Skelly's 42.6% was more than any NDP leader not named Dave Barrett

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Columbia_New_Democratic_Party#Election_results

jerrym

Quote:

The BC NDP faces even tougher facts than this loss: it has dropped from an all-time high of 824,544 actual votes in 1986, ironically when BC NDP leader Bob Skelly lost to Social Credit Premier Bill Vander Zalm, to 643,399 in 2013 under Dix.

http://vancouver.24hrs.ca/2013/05/20/how-the-bc-ndp-blew-the-election

This statement lept off the page for me. Bob Skelly suffered from stage fright during the 1986 campaign and literally could not finish some of his speeches. Yet, despite this, and an increase in population from 2.88 million in 1986 to 4.64 million in 2013 (a 61% increase), the NDP suffered a 22% drop in its vote during the same period. While part of the decrease can be attributed to the general decrease in political interest because many do not see its relevance for their lives and part to the growth of the Greens since 1986, the BC NDP clearly has to examine what happened during the election and where it plans to go in the future if it ever hopes to win power again. Excuses will not solve its problems. 

NorthReport

Probably the most constructive comments since the election. 

As much as many have been disappointed (myself included) about the election results, it's time for some concrete action now.

 

What is to be done

 

 

 

 

http://therealstory.ca/2013-05-21/bc-liberals/what-is-to-be-done

 

 

 

Fidel

bekayne wrote:

Skelly's 42.6% was more than any NDP leader not named Dave Barrett

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Columbia_New_Democratic_Party#Election_results

Dix dropped 3.11% from Skelly. What are they trying to tell us, that it's a war of inches?

I think the difference for the Liberals was corporate backing and B.C. newspapers an extra column of the Liberal election campaign.

NDPers have good and dedicated foot soldiers who work for free I find. It's hard to fight big money influence, which is another thing wrong with Canadian democracy in addition to the bad electoral system invented before electricity.

Malcontent

The NDP did lose 4 in a row between Barrett and Harcourt. But all three victories were due to vote splitting.

The Liberals (Socreds) did not 'win' but the NDP lost and the Libs beat the split. If the cons did not have a dinosaur as a leader their vote probably would not of collapsed so much and siphoned enough of Libs to let the NDP win like with Barrett, Harcourt and Clark.

The NDP should hope the BC Cons get a better leader or a new party starts up to split with the libs.

If that fails the NDP need to figure how to get more than their usual 40 ish percent. (That is why they can only win with splits like Wilsons Libs in 1991 or his PDA in 96 along with some BC Reform votes)

I wonder if a young leader in mid to late 20"s would be good? I dunno if this is a good comparison or not but many NDP MP's from Quebec are young , so I dunno if that is the way to go or not. Any party that can get the young vote (not just support but actually show up and vote) would win by a landslide.

I hate to say it but to many boomers/'old fogies' running for office and that turns a lot of people off.

I think going young, re-branding under a different name even, talk more about issues that effect non boomers (as most boomers vote right wing anyway) like marijuana, education, transit, jobs, how they will work towards solving the high youth unemployment, student loans and some sort of forgiveness, lower voting age to 16 like Brazil, even lower drinking age to 16 or 18 etc etc

Aristotleded24

I've heard arguments for and against replacing Dix. Let me say that the pitfall of a leadership race is that it can distract from any other internal party renewal efforts. Remember how well the Liberals did by replacing their leaders?

Ippurigakko

Malcontent wrote:

The NDP did lose 4 in a row between Barrett and Harcourt. But all three victories were due to vote splitting.

The Liberals (Socreds) did not 'win' but the NDP lost and the Libs beat the split. If the cons did not have a dinosaur as a leader their vote probably would not of collapsed so much and siphoned enough of Libs to let the NDP win like with Barrett, Harcourt and Clark.

The NDP should hope the BC Cons get a better leader or a new party starts up to split with the libs.

If that fails the NDP need to figure how to get more than their usual 40 ish percent. (That is why they can only win with splits like Wilsons Libs in 1991 or his PDA in 96 along with some BC Reform votes)

I wonder if a young leader in mid to late 20"s would be good? I dunno if this is a good comparison or not but many NDP MP's from Quebec are young , so I dunno if that is the way to go or not. Any party that can get the young vote (not just support but actually show up and vote) would win by a landslide.

I hate to say it but to many boomers/'old fogies' running for office and that turns a lot of people off.

I think going young, re-branding under a different name even, talk more about issues that effect non boomers (as most boomers vote right wing anyway) like marijuana, education, transit, jobs, how they will work towards solving the high youth unemployment, student loans and some sort of forgiveness, lower voting age to 16 like Brazil, even lower drinking age to 16 or 18 etc etc

Agreed... many youth voters are so apathy for some reasons...... like low voter turnout. i think they need pick NDP leader is youth like Niki Ashton.

eta: I hate when non-youth ppl says young ppl have no experience if s/he become NDP leader etc.

nicky

The NDP in BC always seems to do worse when it is expected to do well and vice versa.

In 1969 it was widely expected that Tom Berger would win. This allowed Bennett to make his famous "The socialist hordes are at the gates" campaign and actually gain seats.

Harcourt and Clark were both well ahead in the polls and won by smaller margins than expected. Barrett lost his fourth election when he was though to be ahead. Same with Dix.

On the other hand, Barrett came in under the radar in '72 in an era when election pols were banned. Skelly who was thought to be down for the count exceeded expectations. Carole James came within 4% in '09 when most polls had her down by twice that or more.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

The rot is at the top and not just in the leader's spot.  Moe and all the people from his era need to hand in their keys to the inner circle.  The BC party is a tightly controlled top down organization. The people in control have been in control since the early 1990's and they have only won one election in that period.  Yes I know they won government twice but they won with Clark getting less votes than the Liberals.  The only thing the party hierarchy is good at is protecting their own internal power.  They are really good at beating down anyone who tries to influence the party but keep failing in the only game that really counts.

The other parties lose their baggage by rebranding. The corrupt Socreds turned into the Liberals promising open government, the even corrupter Conservative party of Saskatchewan morphed into the Sask party.The NDP in both provinces has to run on ever mistake they have made since the 1960's while the governing parties only have to live with their recent past.

The question is what did the NDP offer the people of BC? They offered minor tinkering and nothing more. This in the face of grinding poverty and a rush to make BC the carbon capital of the world.  Given its top down organization and subsequent lack of vision the NDP has no chance at overcoming the inherent media bias. If they somehow became a more open and grass roots party then they could develop a vision that might stand a chance of getting positive results. In the meantime look for Moe and his friends to appoint a committee to study what went wrong and their role will not be in the terms of reference.

janfromthebruce

As an older voter, I liked Nicky but she was way down on my list for leader, just saying. I really think that replacing the leader is such a bad idea, ditto for name change. If you want to start a new party be my guest.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Gee Jan I was talking about a provincial party in the province I live in and the party that I have years of personal experience in.

I am too old to start a youth movement. For me to try and start the youth led party that needs starting in BC would be as stupid as me trying to start and lead a woman's movement. In the political realm I find it best to understand where ones limits are. Sihota and the cabal that controls the BC NDP central office are the problem and have been the problem for quite some time. The people in that inner circle are the "pragmatists" that insist that the party message must be tightly controlled and moderate. They keep insisting on employing the same strategy because winning elections is the main point of politics. The ironic part of the story is they keep losing winnable elections with the same strategy. To me elections are about making real change in government. The Dix led party offered no fundamental change just better government.  Apparently that was not enough to gain it any votes and in fact they lost votes. 

Since the safe middle of the road campaign has lost the popular vote in the last FIVE elections I say run from the left it can't get any worse than it already is. Hell if somehow the party could get youth to believe it would make a difference it could win with just an up surge in that vote.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

The BCNDP has to stop focusing on appeasing the eceonomic "winners".  If people see themselves as "winners", they aren't GOING to vote out the "in-party". 

The truth is, there are more losers than winners in BC, and the key lies in convincing those who have been losing in this economy that going to the polls is going to make a real difference in their lives.

Centrism and an obsession with looking "safe" and "respectable" can't ever convince them of that.

NorthReport
NorthReport
NorthReport

FWIW I believe Rafe was supporting the NDP during the last election

Surveying the Rubble after BC's Election

The future of our province was at stake; the results disastrous.

http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2013/05/27/BC-Election-Rubble/

NorthReport
NorthReport
NorthReport
NorthReport
NorthReport

A few minor changes taking place - a seat here, a seat there perhaps, but no way is it going to erase the debacle of the recent BC NDP campaign. They lost track of the big picture and I have not seen much to suggest they even get it.

http://electionsbcenr.blob.core.windows.net/electionsbcenr/GE-2013-05-14...

nicky

The only change that I can see with the absentee ballots is that the NDP has inched into the lead, by 5 votes, in Maillardville-Coquitlam, with counting still in progress.

janfromthebruce

1st day of absentee ballots counted - 42,500 ballots, NDP 43.0%, Libs 42.0%, Greens 8.9%, BCCP 4.2% Oth 2.3% #bcpoli

 

NorthReport
Unionist

Bill Tieleman wrote:
And so far, the BC NDP hasn’t found its own dog whistle to rally enough voters to win.

Is this a call for canine suffrage?

Political parties that consider people (whom they call "voters") as subjects of Pavlovian experiments are doomed.

 

Fidel

Apparently it's not enough that a mathematically absurd electoral system is law of the land - a true majority of voters in B.C. have been disenfranchised by a fascist setup with Liberals, corporations, and corporate-friendly newz media rigging elections. Even so the junior Libranos only beat the NDP by 5% of the vote. It's the same old same-old: British Columbians can't be trusted with democracy same as the setup here in Puerto Ontario where Liberals are running the province into the ground on behalf of Bay St bondsalesmen and corporate welfare bums.

JKR

Unionist wrote:

Bill Tieleman wrote:
And so far, the BC NDP hasn’t found its own dog whistle to rally enough voters to win.

Is this a call for canine suffrage?

Political parties that consider people (whom they call "voters") as subjects of Pavlovian experiments are doomed.

 

The NDP won't get enough public support as long as it believes that campaign slogans like the BC Liberal's, “Strong Economy. Secure Tomorrow” are just merely "dog whistles" that mesmerize a gullible public. The NDP should get in tune with the public's justifiable desire for a secure future, good jobs, economic opportunity and a prosperous economy. The NDP should broaden its message more beyond just incremental improvement of economic fairness and sustainability.

Fidel

On the other hand, the "message" does not necessarily have to appeal to the true majority - the ones who voted against the junior Liberals in B.C.  And the 48% of eligible voters who stayed home on election day? I think the junior Liberals have done an excellent job of disengaging them from the political process.  And many of them will understand that they are numerically eliminated by the bad electoral system and frustrated by the lack of democracy in general.

Logic says that whatever the corporate-sponsored Liberals pawned-off on voters in the campaign is what the NDP should focus on next time. Catchphrases like the ones the Liberal newz media machine used are, apparently, effective enough to win a "landslide" by 5% of the actual vote. I think 5% is what the NDP should focus on next time and balance their efforts with an American-style negative campaign. They attacked Tommy Douglas and CCF with lies and deception, and so I think BCNDP should probably think about squeezing off a few torpedoes toward the corporate-Liberals waterline for maximum effect. And there are so many negatives with a Liberal government that the NDP should have had a field day on the water. It's a dirty electoral system that warrants dirty politicking imo. Until a real electoral system is the law of the land anything goes imo.

NorthReport

It appears that the BC NDP picked up another seat today.

http://bc2013.com/2013/05/26/expectations-from-final-count-a-change-in-o...

NorthReport

Typical Liberal.

I enjoy opposition that use the term "never" because they are the ones most easily defeated in future elections.

Not sure this clown sounds like a healthy history teacher with his kind of comments but fill your boots.

----------------------------------------------------

“Orange Waves” are never coming again. Winning campaigns are built on voter data, one or two focused messages shouted to be heard above the noise and an immediate response to attack ads.

Brian Gold is a history instructor at the University of Alberta, an adviser to the Canadian Centre for Progressive Policy and a member of the Alberta governing council of the Liberal Party of Canada.

http://blogs.theprovince.com/2013/05/27/brian-gold-adrian-dix-and-the-or...

 

NorthReport
NorthReport

Just like most people realize that, and even if it is true, the Toronto Fords din't do themselves any favours by calling journalists "maggots" and they eventually apologised for it, some NDPers don't get attacking media folks is not in their best interests. Carry on your road to destruction.

 dohttp://www.straight.com/blogra/385821/baldreydash-global-reporter-insult...

NorthReport
NorthReport

There you have it folks - the reality of the media and how it dealt with partisan government ads. There's big moola to be made and no way are we going to bite the hand that feeds us.  Laughing

You told us that today's' BC Liberal government is, "using resources wisely to give children the start they need in life"

http://kamloopsthompsonbcconservatives.blogspot.ca/2013/05/you-told-us-t...

NorthReport

A Few Words From The Powell River Persuader

There has been lots of post election analysis done, Bill Tieleman is the latest to weigh in, he has an article wherein he describes BC Liberal voters as drones responding to the call of a dog-whistle...His theory is preposterous..

Lets be perfectly clear on a few obvious facts, the media was against the NDP(especially since they vowed to end non-essential Government advertising)...But, the media has always been against the NDP, this was to be expected, the Liberals negative campaign started 18 months before the election..

Adrian Dix made a mistake in announcing before the vote that he was removing the Government RESP...Yes that RESP is unfair and along way off, but by removing it wasn`t going to garner any votes, only lose votes, the change of heart on Kinder Morgan, again, it gained him no votes, that move wasn`t going to stem the flow of votes to the Green part, and it wasn`t fatal.

Adrian Dix`s campaign was one of muzzled candidates, their star John Horgan and other became muzzled, outside of candidates speaking at all candidate`s meeting the stars were muzzled, and even that turned disastrous when Charlie Wyse told his audience that the NDP would be having a moratorium on fracking, how come Charlie Wyse didn`t know the platform?

The bottom line on why the NDP was because Adrian Dix was a flawed candidate from the beginning, a flawed candidate who didn`t fight, he took the brunt of personal attacks from the Liberals, Sun News and other local media outfits..Adrian was called names, called dishonest and he showed no backbone, only with a perfect candidate could the NDP afford to lay back and play rope-a-dope..Adrian was far from perfect, and that is something that Bill Tieleman fails to recognize, and that`s the problem the NDP has today, until we admit why we lost we will never achieve victory..

Background on Adrian Dix`s leadership, Bill Tieleman was in fact Adrian Dix leadership guru, Adrian Dix was Bill Tieleman`s candidate, and that`s why Bill Tieleman won`t face the music, won`t face the real facts on goes out writing about Christy Clark blowing a dog-whistle to bring the BC Liberal voters back..

The BC Liberals lost about 1% of their vote total from 2009..The NDP lost near 4% of their 2009 vote totals, in other words with all that ammo, all the scandals, the debt, deficits and a mentally weak BC Liberal leader Adrian Dix couldn`t even hold the vote we had....

The public rejected Adrian Dix......

Throughout the internet, can anyone even name one popular BC Liberal promoting blogger, I can`t....On comment threads in the mainstream press, Facebook comments, CBC comments, the BC Liberal supporters were few and far between...Yet almost all low-information voter voted against Adrian Dix..

Yes the pollsters screwed the NDP, the media was against us, and unfortunately we had a leader who hurt us too, hurt us fatally, we can`t settle for a flawed candidate, second or third best we need the brightest star possible.

http://powellriverpersuader.blogspot.ca/2013/05/a-few-words-from-powell-...

NorthReport

The mainstream media, apart from the CBC, which fronts for the Liberal Party, are in business to make money for their publishers. Period.

Who Killed the BC NDP's Election Chances?

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/sean-holman/bc-election-2013_b_3347441.html

NorthReport
addictedtomyipod

The final numbers for 2013 are:

 

Lib   44.14%

NDP  39.71%

Grn   8.13%

Con   4.76%

The Libs have 49 seats, NDP 34 and Green 1

I hardly call this a complete disaster for the NDP as some are suggesting on this thread.  In fact there is very little movement at all amongst all parties. To suggest a victory for the Greens is absurd.  They lost the election and will not get one thing they wanted out of this same Liberal government.     

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

NorthReport wrote:

That's the grim reality folks, like it or not.

http://www.vancouversun.com/opinion/columnists/Vaughn+Palmer+Election+le...

I found this part of it interesting.  The Greens are not the reason for the NDP losing. Green voters are not necesarily NDP voters and to think they are is a serious mistake.

Quote:

For all that, the New Democrats continue to blame the Greens (as they did in 2005 and 2009) for poaching on their supposed electoral turf. But the final results don’t indicate that support between the two parties is all that transferable.

The Greens took 16 per cent of the vote in Penticton in the last election. This time they did not field a candidate, leading local New Democrats to hope that those votes would boost them to victory over the Liberals, who’d won there last time.

Instead the Liberals won Penticton with more votes and with a larger share of the vote than in 2009, shutting out the New Democrats once again.

NorthReport

And sometimes people do not learn anything from their mistakes.

http://thetyee.ca/News/2013/05/31/BC-Greens-Gains/

Brachina wrote:
Sometimes you can learn more from you mistakes then you do from your successes. Especially when you contrast the two.

JKR

addictedtomyipod wrote:

The final numbers for 2013 are:

 

Lib   44.14%

NDP  39.71%

Grn   8.13%

Con   4.76%

The Libs have 49 seats, NDP 34 and Green 1

I hardly call this a complete disaster for the NDP as some are suggesting on this thread.  In fact there is very little movement at all amongst all parties....  

Turning a 15 to 20 point lead into a 5 point loss is a disaster considering the BC NDP somehow managed to find a way to lose to an old worn out unpopular government. It's hard to believe but just few weeks ago people were even discussing whether the new NDP government should grant the BC Liberals official party status in case of a complete Liberal meltdown.

jerrym

For me the future of politics in BC, will revolve around Christy's "once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for greater economic prosperity": that is, her one trillion dollars in economic activity and 100 billion dollars in government revenue and a debt-free province in thirty years because of LNG exports to Asia. If she can make this absurd fantasy happen, all the corruption associated with the BC Liberals will be overlooked. If it drains the government of resources to subsidize the building and the provision of the enormous amounts of energy required for liquefying natural gas and is stillborn or withers away just like the Tumbler Ridge coal bonanza did, the Liberals will be in deep trouble electorally. So far, it is looking like another Tumbler Ridge scenario because, just as the Japanese promised long-term coal deals at high prices while doing similar deals with Russia and Australia and then walking away from its Tumbler Ridge contracts leaving BC holding the bag, the current very high Chinese LNG prices are likely to fall dramatically with the growing competition of deals with Russia (a 30 year deal has already been done), Australia, and Qatar. 

The Liberals are putting nearly all their economic eggs in one basket as reflected in the fact that they plan to split off LNG from the energy ministry to create a "Ministry of Natural Gas Development". If all the LNG plants go ahead, the energy involved in liquefying natural gas to minus 162 degrees Celsius is almost as much as the provinces current consumption. Goodbye carbon dioxide reduction objectives. When combined with the burning of this LNG if it reaches Asia, it's hello global warming. 

Quote:

As well as finalizing deals to bring natural gas from the northeast to one or more terminals in Kitimat, the new ministry and secretariat would be charged with establishing a second corridor across northern B.C. “to service LNG facilities in and around the Prince Rupert area.”

Other elements of the strategy include working out a deal with the federal government to “ensure one comprehensive environmental assessment process for LNG developments,” and securing the necessary level of cooperation from affected First Nations in return for ensuring that aboriginal people (along with other northern B.C. residents) will be “first in line for the LNG jobs of the future.”

Nor does that exhaust the immediate challenges ahead.

LNG terminals need enormous amounts of power to chill natural gas down to minus 162 degrees centigrade, the target temperature for transporting it by oceangoing tankers. In most places in the world, this is done by consuming sizable quantities of natural gas to “squeeze and freeze” the rest, via a process known as direct drive.

But the Liberals (again quoting the platform) want to “ensure B.C.’s facilities are the cleanest in the world,” which is not a reference to the need for improved custodial standards. Rather they are concerned about greenhouse gas emissions and will be discouraging producers from too much reliance on fossil fuels as a source of power.

Instead the government is pledged to get going on “new power sources for LNG manufacturing, including Site C, that will secure future energy for consumers.” Site C being the proposed hydroelectric dam on the Peace River, which would not be up and running for a decade at the earliest.

Not surprisingly, the would-be builders of multi-billion-dollar terminals would like to know when substitute power would be available, at what price, and how reliable it would be, before they commit themselves to long-term contracts in a volatile global market for commodities.

So it is not as if the Liberals can go on working through their options in private and voicing generalities in public, as they have done for the better part of two years.

They need to deliver the goods. If they don’t, their mandate could evaporate as quickly as LNG at room temperature.

http://www.vancouversun.com/opinion/columnists/Vaughn+Palmer+Liberals+un...

Therefore, the NDP needs to continually ask where Christy is in terms of delivering on her trillion dollar promise. One way or another LNG is going to determine the future of this province. 

Centrist

Having posted alot here in various threads about LNG in BC and am very familiar with the topic, I can say with about 95% certainty that the proposed Petronas/Japex as well as Shell/Mitsubishi/Korea Gas/Petro China LNG facilities are basically done deals. And at maximum capacity, just those two LNG terminals will produce about 50% of the current output of Qatar - the worlds largest LNG exporter. The final investment decisions will be made late next year according to their timelines - as various final regulatory approvals are required first.

Both of these LNG terminals will also provide for electrical generation on-site from natural-gas generating facilities. No government subsidies required. Just last year the BC govt redefined natural gas as a “clean energy“ source - but only if it is utilized to generate electricity for and at the proposed LNG terminals.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2012/06/22/bc-lng-clean-natural-gas.html 

Tumbler Ridge was a different animal in that it required the BC goverment to pay for the development of the Tumbler Ridge townsite, government-owned BC Rail to provide an expensive direct rail link with lengthy tunnels, and BC Hydro to provide an expensive direct electrical transmission link. None of that is required for westcoast LNG. And I suspect that coal price contracts with the Quintette and Bullmouse Mines were dictated by the future price of metallurgical coal back in the ealry 1980s. BTW, today Tumbler Ridge is again a booming metallurgical coal mining town.

In fact, from a political stability as well as cost perspective, proposed BC LNG is quite attractive to Asian markets vis-a-vis Russia, Australia, and Qatar - believe it or not. That is why all of the worlds energy majors are looking at BC including Woodside Petroleum - one of Australias predominant LNG producers, which has abandoned new LNG there due to costs about twice as high as here in BC.  We are talking $tens of billions$ for a new LNG facility inclusive of pipeline.

The BC NDP and energy critic supports LNG - so no political wedge issue there. The only political wedge issue that I see is newly elected Green MLA Weaver opposing LNG, fracking, and the GHG gases emitted therefrom both from the source as well as natural-gas fired electrical generating stations adjacent to the LNG terminals. 

Frankly, I do not know how that newly minted political cleavage will play out.

 

Aristotleded24

I'll ask the same question here that I asked in the Adrian Dix thread:

Aristotleded24 wrote:

Is it possible that the 2-party system in BC (and possibly Saskatchewan) is preventing the renewal of the parties? Consider this:

As long as the NDP remains in the first or second position, it is one of the main options, and thus is attractive to power-seekers and "hangers on," which tends to have a stifling effect on the grassroots. In BC's case, perhaps too many people in the top ranks of the NDP feel that they'll win eventually on their own, and don't have to listen to other people, and the "why-doesn't-the-NDP-ever-listen-to-its-members?" question is always going on. However, on the East Coast, the traditionally marginal position of the NDP in Newfoundland and Labrador, Prince Edward Island, and New Brunswick has forced the party to work hard and think outside the box, as a marginal party is not attractive to careerists. As a result, the NDP in all 3 provinces is having increased polling success as of late. Here in Manitoba, the NDP rebounded quite quickly after being knocked into third place in 1988.

Thoughts?

NorthReport

This is the biggest failure I have ever seen in politics.

Most everyone at the top is tone deaf.

We are probably looking at 2 years minimum of the BC NDP spinning its wheels, with public and private infighting, and going absolutely nowhere. Only when the wheels have completely fallen off the bus, will there be a chance, although at this point I am rather doubtful anything came be done to savage what is left of the carcass.  

 

 

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