CBC: NDP facing fissures over Cardy's leadership

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David Hackett
CBC: NDP facing fissures over Cardy's leadership

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/story/2011/05/18/nb-cardy-nd...

 

"NDP Leader Dominic Cardy is facing questions about his leadership from within his own party as tensions remain over his acclamation as the party's leader and the future of the NDP.

Cardy took over the party in March when the only other contestant was disqualified, a decision that is still resonating within the party..."

Caissa

And I see Matt Doherty comes riding to Cardy's defense again. There are two issues and they are intertwined: Cardy wants to move the NB NDP towards a Blairite party and the last campaign reflects this view. There are some of us who would prefer to see the party be a left-wing party instead. The second issue is many members want to have a clear choice for the type of leader the party should have. The acclamation of Cardy made this impossible.

Pierre Cyr (other candidate for NB NDP leadership) wrote this on Facebook today:

Dear friends: I hope to finish my final report (the French version) on the NDP Leadership race this week. I am waiting for two more important documents before I can complete the report. I have 19 pages writen so far on the possibility of 25 pages. Have a good day evreyone!

Caissa

I just received the following via email.

Quote:

memorandum

to:                 members of New Brunswick Ndp provincial council

from:           nicole O'byrne, co-Chair NB NDP Leadership Convention Planning Committee

subject:      Leadership convention planning committee

date:            18/05/2011

 

 

First of all, I would like to emphasize that the following memorandum represents only my personal legal opinion.  The contents of this memorandum have not been discussed or accepted by the NB NDP Leadership Convention Planning Committee as a whole.  However, as a legal academic whose specialty is constitutional law and legislative process and has spent the past 9 years researching and writing about the political organization and philosophy of the CCF/NDP, I feel that it is my duty to offer the following for the consideration of Provincial Council (Please see the included article written with Greg Ericson – Is there a Future for the NDP in New Brunswick?).

 

At the October 24, 2010 meeting of Provincial Council, a motion was passed "to hold a Special Provincial Council on November 28th, 2010 in Moncton specifically to deal with the Leadership race and logistics." 

 

At this meeting, the "Rules Governing the Election of a New Brunswick NDP Leader" were adopted as was a resolution "de permettre aux membres de voter en personne au congrès de la course à la direction le samedi 16 avril et "d'amender les règlements pour que les candidats à la direction puissant prononcer leur discours lors du congrès, avant que le vote ait lieu.  There was also a lengthy discussion regarding to the format of the Convention. 

 

On December 8, 2010, the first meeting of the NB NDP Leadership Convention Planning Committee was held.  Two subsequent meetings were held at Provincial Office on January 13, 2011 and February 3, 2011.  (Please refer to your package for the minutes of the committee).  The committee planned a number of events surrounding the leadership election.  Most notably, Professor Howard Pawley, the former NDP premier of Manitoba, had agreed to be the keynote speaker on the theme of party building and how to heal rifts after a contested leadership race.  Additionally, Professor Don Desserud had agreed to give a speech concerning the current demographic challenges facing New Brunswick.  Lyndsey Gallant and Matt Whynott, a Nova Scotia NDP MLA, had agreed to give a presentation about how to set up a constituency association and build up the membership.  The intent was to use the convention as an opportunity to build interest in the party and fundraise.

 

On March 2, 2011, the Chief Electoral Officer announced that there was only one leadership candidate and declared Dominic Cardy to be the leader of the NB Provincial NDP.  At the next Executive meeting, I agreed to suspend the activities of the Leadership and cancel the April 16, 2011 Leadership Convention. I take full responsibility for this decision. It is my hope that the planning for the April convention will be rolled into the fall convention so that the many hours put in by the committee members will not be in vain.  At this meeting, I pointed out that there were a number of consequences for not holding a Leadership Convention.  First, the party lost a significant opportunity to fundraise (we had estimated that the Convention would have raised between $15,000 to $20,000).  Second, the party lost the opportunity to bring its membership together in order to debate and discuss its future direction.  Third, there was no acclamation of the party leader by the membership. 

 

The Rules Governing the Election of a New Brunswick NDP Leader are silent on the issue of whether the CEO has the authority to declare which candidate can be leader of the provincial party.  By tenets of administrative law, the CEO is empowered by Provincial Council to act strictly in accordance with the delegated authority to him or her by Provincial Council.  By declaring the leader, the CEO exceeded his jurisdiction and his decision is invalid. It is the party membership that declares the party leader either by election or acclamation. 

 

According to Article VI.A.4 of the NB NDP Constitution, "every member of the Party shall be entitled to cast a ballot for the selection of the Leader, either at Convention or by some other method to be determined by Provincial Council.  The vote must be by secret ballot."  Therefore, it is up to Provincial Council to determine the process whereby a leadership candidate is selected.  There are two ways that this can be accomplished.  First, Provincial Council can agree to set up a voting process wherein every member is consulted re the acclamation of the current leadership designate Dominic Cardy; 2)  Provincial Council can agree to hold an acclamation vote at the next Provincial Convention.  Until the membership votes to acclaim the leader, the members have not had a say in the leadership of the party.  This is in contravention of the party's Constitution.  This represents my legal opinion on the matter and it has been seconded by the Ian Peach, the Dean of the Faculty of Law, University of New Brunswick.

 

 

Sincerely,

 

 

Nicole O'Byrne, B.Sc., B.A. (Hons.), LL.B., LL.M., Ph.D. Candidate

Vice-President Fredericton-Lincoln Constituency Association

Member-at-Large NB NDP Provincial Executive

Member of NB NDP Provincial Executive

 

 

 

Caissa

An unpopular unilingual leader.

Stockholm

I think the NDP tried the extreme left approach in 2006 under Alison Brewer - 5% of the vote and not even remotely close in a single solitary riding. What does that tell you?

I'm not sure what the issue is here. It obviously made sense NOT to have a convention in mid-April unless absolutely necessary given that it was right splat in the middle of the federal election campaign. Instead they are having a convention in the Fall (October I believe) and that convention will feature a leadership review vote that will serve as either a ratification or a rejection of Dominic Cardy's leadership. Some people wanted a chance for the membership to actually vote on the leadership - despite it having been an acclamation - and they will get it.

Aristotleded24

Caissa wrote:
Cardy wants to move the NB NDP towards a Blairite party and the last campaign reflects this view. There are some of us who would prefer to see the party be a left-wing party instead.

I have to ask, what's wrong with the New Brunswick NDP? Even their last campaign was pretty bad, ridiculing promises of everybody having a family doctor as "unrealistic," saying that the deficit has to be taken care of before any new programs are implemented, and targetting MLA pay and perks. How is that any different than what is currently on the offer from the Liberals and Conservatives? Let the Liberals and Conservatives bicker over that, the NDP should try and offer something that the other main parties aren't. I can't blame New Brunswickers for not finding the NDP that attractive.

KenS

"How is that any different than what is currently on the offer from the Liberals and Conservatives?"

Since I dont live there, and even though next door, not close enough to know what people talk about and what people see... I wouldnt be able to make a meaningful statement on that.

Ditto for you.

Stockholm

I think they were right to target MLA pay and perks and pensions. Did you know that because there were no New Democrats in the NB legislature - the Liberals and Tories two years ago had a secret session at 1am and with unanimous consent gave themselves a 100% pay raise as ell as a pension plan that is more generous that what legislators get in any other province in Canada! and NB is the pooerest province in the country with the lowest level of social services in the country. If you can't see that as something worth attacking then i don't know what planet you're living on.

Anonymouse

For the record

Also, Cardy says his political views are reflected in the last NB NDP platform. Read it and judge it for yourselves I guess.

KenS

But bear in mind that there is a difference between judging for yourself as to whether you think a platform is any good, and making assessments like "I can't blame New Brunswickers for not finding the NDP that attractive."

As if what a bunch of people on Babble think about the NB NDP platform is ipso facto a measure of what New Brunswickers in general think about it.

And note that it is only Babblers from outside NB who run those two together as if they were the same. The critics who live there have based their critique on the subtsance of the policy/platform, or lack thereof.

Caissa

aristotle wrote:
I have to ask, what's wrong with the New Brunswick NDP? Even their last campaign was pretty bad,

They ran as the voice of the middle class. What more needs to be said?

Stockholm

"middle class" is how about 90% of the population define themselves. Its funny how the only people who seem to be bothered by references to the middle class are a few professors of political theory with distinctly UPPER class incomes.

Caissa

Stockholm wrote:
Its funny how the only people who seem to be bothered by references to the middle class are a few professors of political theory with distinctly UPPER class incomes.

I guess I am glad I don't fall into that category.

Stockholm

If you are a professional of any kind (i.e. a teacher or academic) you're income is almost certainly in the top 10% of New Brunswick (if not the top 5%) - if that's not "upper class", what is?

Caissa

Yes, my household income would fall into the "upper class" in NB although I think your percentages are off. Do you have a point, Stockholm? I thought the issue was Cardy's leadership and political views?

Stockholm

Maybe you can explain why someone who is upper class sees something wrong about Dominic Cardy for wanting to position the NDP as the party to represent the 90% of the population who see themselves as middle-class. Funny how its never the people in the bottom 10% who actually are statistically "lower class" who have an issue with the middle class language - those criticisms always seem to come from people who are quintessentially upper class by any statistical definition. Why is that?

Caissa

I grew up in working class family both by relationnship to the means of production and by family income. We did not consider ourselves to be middle class but working class. i'm not sure why we are discussing me Stockholm. you seem to be arguing that my criticism of Cardy should be dismissed because of my economic status. That seems rather ad hominim. The NDP should be a party of democratic socialism and thus the voice of workers. The fact that many workers perceive themselves as middle class despite not being so by any objective measure is a sign of the success of the capitalist MSM. I see positioning the party as the voice of the middle class and the last provincial campaign as moving the provincial NDP right-ward. Obviously you disagree, Stockholm. Any chance you want to debate the substance of Cardy's positions rather than my economic status?

Stockholm

If you have substantive view son specific policies - then fine. So far all you seem to criticize is the choice of a slogan - a slogan that is very similar to what the federal NDP used with great success earlier this month. But of course you don't dare to attack Jack Layton for being too moderate and using too much "middle class language" because you know you'd be laughed out of the room.

Instead you pick on Cardy like a vulture circling over the weakest prey - he leads a party with no seats and he's a brand new leader so he's vulnersable and an easy target for you to attack. Maybe when he confirms his leadership and wins a seat in the next election, you can move lower down the pecking order and find a school trustee in your community who you think doesn't talk enough about "workers controlling the means of production" and you can try to discredit that person!

Caissa

As suspected, you have nothing substantive to say.

The attempt to be seen as more fiscally responsible than the Libs or PCs by eschewing promises was laughable at best. I'm not picking on Cardy to use your phraseology. He and I don't see eye to eye on where the party should be placed and have even discussed our differences via email. He's the leader and i am a party member. Surely, I am entitled to disagree with him?
If you want to discuss Jack, I think that is another thread.

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

wow. slimy red-baiting (or whatever you want to call it) by Stockholm. Who'd of thunk it.

1springgarden

Cardy is a divisive figure and through his actions and statements he is alienating many long-time supporters of the NB NDP.

Organized labour doesn't trust him for his Blair-ite orientation and attack-the-deficit prioritizing (Fed of Labour backed Cyr).  Acadian NDP members don't like him for his hand in the rules that lead to Pierre Cyr's disqualification and because he is unilingual English originally from Fredericton but had been out of the province for most of the last 20years, indeed he is seen as something of a carpetbagger on the last count.

Many NDP supporters are aghast at his comments about working with the Liberals on some kind of unclarified co-operative initiative for progressive voters in NB.  Many economically-poorer New Brunswick NDP supporters (eg single moms, minimum wage workers) are demoralized by this new tack of embracing middle class priorities, deficit-fighting and willingness to tolerate cuts to services.

Now, admittedly the NB NDP only polled about 10% in the last provincial election, and many strategists feel left wing parties will only grow by moving right because their leftwing supporters have no where else to go.  So Cardy may be willing to risk pissing off part of the old NDP support in pursuit of possible centrist appeal.  But in the meantime, I'm hearing stories of memberships being ripped up and PAC contributions being shut off.

Some may compare me to a circling vulture, but I think Cardy is simply too divisive to succeed as NDP leader in NB, despite his confidence in his third-way centrist strategy.  The sooner he exits the better.  In the meantime, Labour, les Acadiens and poor New Brunswickers will have to do what they have always done and keep the advocacy lines and the option of conditional support open to the NB Tories and Liberals (New Brunswick is indeed a hard place to do politics).

Aristotleded24

1springgarden wrote:
Now, admittedly the NB NDP only polled about 10% in the last provincial election, and many strategists feel left wing parties will only grow by moving right because their leftwing supporters have no where else to go.  So Cardy may be willing to risk pissing off part of the old NDP support in pursuit of possible centrist appeal.

That works where the NDP is one of the main parties and has moved to the centre. It doesn't work with a fringe party without seats, because there are already 2 parties voters can choose to offer the status quo. A fringe party can only gain by offering something the mainline parties aren't. See the last federal NDP campaign.

Stockholm

1springgarden wrote:

Organized labour doesn't trust him for his Blair-ite orientation and attack-the-deficit prioritizing (Fed of Labour backed Cyr).  Acadian NDP members don't like him for his hand in the rules that lead to Pierre Cyr's disqualification and because he is unilingual English originally from Fredericton but had been out of the province for most of the last 20years, indeed he is seen as something of a carpetbagger on the last count.

You';ve really exposed the extent to which you don't know what you're talking about. First of all, we still don't know the reasons Cyr was disqualified. He keeps saying he's going to file a report or a sue or something or other and month after month goes by and NOTHING (I guess where there is no smoke there is no fire).

I've heard Cardy speak French - he is quite fluent (he would have to be considering how much time he's spent working in francophone countries in Africa). In fact I would say that his French is much better than the previous leader's English was.  He was also backed for the leadership by many francophone NBers including most of the ones who ran in the provincial election.

Anyways, the proof will be in the pudding. There will be a convention in the fall. There will be a vote on the leadership. I hope people will accept the verdict of the membership and unite behind the winner.

 

Anonymouse

Not only does Cardy speak French, he was practically endorsed by L'Acadie Nouvelle newspaper over Pierre Cyr. He signed up over 100 new members on PAC. You guys are barking up the wrong tree. It's amazing the sniping that goes on over an NDP section where the leader essentially works for free, has few prospects of winning a seat, and has no organisation to support them. No wonder the NB public thinks the party is a complete joke.

1springgarden

Okay, Cardy may well be an excellent french speaker, I was riffing off post #4, in error apparently.

The questions for me come down to 1) what does "Modernizing the Party" mean (I'm wary of this agenda, whatever the shorthand), 2) does New Brunswick need three parties running overtly for the middle-class vote, 3) does Cardy, for all his organizing abilities, have an egotistical streak that leads him to dominate party policies and processes to suit his own views and needs ('it's all about me') 4) what is the stuff about co-operating with the Liberals, answers needed?

Cardy has the NB party leadership ball and he may well score his goal, but that doesn't mean NDP members have to not speak if they don't like what they see.  And this NDP member does not like what I see.

 

KenS

If you really do mean them as questions...

it helps not to frame them with neutral language like does so and so have an egotistical streak and think its all about me.

Maybe your 'springgarden' handle is misleading, but if you are not an NB NDP member, not liking what you see carries little weight.

1springgarden

This is true, as a NS resident it is not my fight.  So I am done with this topic.  Not entirely sure why the story winds me up, but I think the language Cardy uses in framing the party ('Modernize the Party', 'middle-class', co-operate with the Liberals) is a trigger and will alienate the left of the NDP.

Though the middle-of-the-road NS NDP under Darrell Dexter has largely avoided trigger language ("A better deal for today's families" is as bad as it got), has avoided cuts and has raised taxes to address the deficit, there will come a point where the left in the NS NDP will lose patience with the "Back to balance" agenda.  The left in the NS NDP will be looking for some socialist red meat (or tofu) before too long or the Dexter government will be facing more substantial left opposition.

But back to New Brunswick for those who choose to continue...

KenS

Dominic Cardy would have to really work at it to be as useless as Darell Dexter and our fine government.

For what it's worth, Dominic was gone from the NS NDP before Darell's rise; but his/our 'crowd' has always had a mutual antipathy with Darell and the 'brain trust'.

We and the left of the party worked together to have something else.

Stockholm

1springgarden wrote:

This is true, as a NS resident it is not my fight.  So I am done with this topic.  Not entirely sure why the story winds me up, but I think the language Cardy uses in framing the party ('Modernize the Party', 'middle-class', co-operate with the Liberals) is a trigger and will alienate the left of the NDP.

I'm trying to think back to who else in the NDP has gone out of his way to "modernize the party" (ie: hire capable talented people and use state of the art organizing techniques), appeal to the middle class and not only cooperated with the Liberals but was even willing to form a coalition with them - oh yeah Jack Layton.

As for alienating "the left of the NDP". You DO realize we are talking about New Brunswick here - the province that historically has had the tiniest, most moribund NDP in Canada. I'd be surprised if the entire party has more than 500-600 members and how many of those would classify themselves as some sort of far left "ginger group" that is up an arms over appealing to the middle class - I might guess MAYBE 8 or 9 individuals - at most (i.e. one third year seminar class a UNB on "the Marxian perspective"). People can argue substantive policy and ideology if they want - but to "alienate the left of the NB NDP" you have to jump to the conclusion that there is something there to alienate in the first place - quite frankly there is virtually nothing.

 

1springgarden

I'm reading what your saying, Stockholm, but I think there is significant potential to build the NDP in Acadian areas as a vehicle for political identity versus capital (mining, Irving etc) - ie the Yvon Godin strategy, Godin was previously the area representative for United Steelworkers.

About Yvon Godin from Wikipedia:

Quote:
Involvement with the New Brunswick NDP:

As federal MP, Godin had a strained relationship with former New Democratic Party of New Brunswick leader Elizabeth Weir. Following her resignation in 2005, however, there were rumours that Godin might resign his federal seat and run to replace her as provincial party leader at the party's 2005 leadership convention. Ultimately, Godin declined to stand as a candidate, and Allison Brewer was elected NB NDP leader.

Following a poor showing in the 2006 New Brunswick provincial election, Brewer also resigned, and there were renewed rumours Godin would seek the leadership. However Godin demurred again, instead endorsing former priest Roger Duguay. Duguay had run in the provincial riding of Miramichi Bay-Neguac in the last provincial election, and received 26.2% of the vote, the best showing of any NDP candidate. The Miramichi Bay-Neguac riding overlaps with Godin's federal riding. Duguay was subsequently elected leader at the party's October 13, 2007 leadership convention.

I think longterm, the NB NDP needs to be built out of the Acadian community as a vehicle for political identity, Yvon Godin shows how it is done.  The Acadian areas are strong on co-op's and credit unions and evidently labour unions in resource extraction areas.  I think that's where the potential for the NDP in New Brunswick lies. 

I wonder what Yvon Godin is thinking in 2011 vis a vis the NB NDP (not implying anything here).

 

 

 

Stockholm

Yvon Godin now has a very powerful position in the NDP caucus in Ottawa and earns well over $150,000 - I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for him to walk away from that so he could be seatless in the NB legislature and have an income of ZERO for the next three and a half years.

There was a provincial election last September - there was a francophone leader etc...and one would assume that Godin did everything in his power to elect NDP MLAs in the 5 provincial ridings that overlap his federal seat. Result - the NDP lost all 5 by lopsided margins. Either Godin didn't really do much to help the provincial party OR more likely there is simply no way to get those federal votes to translate into provincial votes. The one riding where the NDP came very close to winning was in Saint John.

NB is a bilingual province - you can't only appeal to one language group and not the other.

1springgarden

Stockholm wrote:
There was a provincial election last September - there was a francophone leader etc...and one would assume that Godin did everything in his power to elect NDP MLAs in the 5 provincial ridings that overlap his federal seat. Result - the NDP lost all 5 by lopsided margins. Either Godin didn't really do much to help the provincial party OR more likely there is simply no way to get those federal votes to translate into provincial votes. The one riding where the NDP came very close to winning was in Saint John.

NB is a bilingual province - you can't only appeal to one language group and not the other.

Yeah, I thought of that this afternoon:  Building in Acadian regions sounds great unless it doesn't work.  Then what?  I figured Godin likely did what he could and Duguay as provincial NDP leader was Godin's guy and didn't break through (got 25%).  Fair enough.

robbie_dee

Stockholm wrote:

Yvon Godin now has a very powerful position in the NDP caucus in Ottawa and earns well over $150,000 - I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for him to walk away from that so he could be seatless in the NB legislature and have an income of ZERO for the next three and a half years.

Godin's over 55 now and should be eligible for an MP pension (as well as quite likely a pension from the Steelworkers as well). While I'm sure he's still doing great work in Ottawa and may not want to leave, he could take on the provincial leadership without a huge personal financial sacrifice if the Party was otherwise able to make the opportunity attractive enough for him. This is moot though because right now the NB NDP has a leader, at least pending ratification at the next convention.

Stockholm

If Godin had ever had the slightest desire to lead the NB NDP all he had to do was enter the race after Brewer quit or enter the race after Duguay quit - and he would have won without opposition. Its pretty obvious that he has no interest in provincial politics.

KenS

1springgarden wrote:

I figured Godin likely did what he could and Duguay as provincial NDP leader was Godin's guy and didn't break through (got 25%).  Fair enough.

Absolute speculation on your part.

As far as I know, Godin has always shown minimal interest in helping the NB NDP. I'm not suggesting all all he should have, but he could always have taken some kind of leadership in building the NB NDP. He never has.

Malcolm Malcolm's picture

1springgarden wrote:

The questions for me come down to 1) what does "Modernizing the Party" mean (I'm wary of this agenda, whatever the shorthand), 2) does New Brunswick need three parties running overtly for the middle-class vote, 3) does Cardy, for all his organizing abilities, have an egotistical streak that leads him to dominate party policies and processes to suit his own views and needs ('it's all about me') 4) what is the stuff about co-operating with the Liberals, answers needed?

Cardy has the NB party leadership ball and he may well score his goal, but that doesn't mean NDP members have to not speak if they don't like what they see.  And this NDP member does not like what I see.

 

First off, these aren't so much "questions" as anti-Cardy talking points, but what the heck, I'll bite.

1. For most of us, "modernizing the party" means that amateur hour isn't good enough.  It means building organizational capacity.  It means setting aside this bullshit about "moral victories" and trying to get to the point where we can actually DO things as opposed to sniping from the sidelines.

2. Since something in the area of 90% of voters self-identify as middle class (even when , by sociological standards, they aren't), then they need at least one progressive party to make that appeal.  How many parties the right want to have is the right's business.

3. I have yet to meet a politico (including the preening pharisees on the left) who lacks a healthy ego - or even an inflated ego.  Cardy wants to change the NBNDP from an irrelevant talking shop into an effective political vehicle that can actually win elections and implement policies.  Yeah, he wants to be Premier instead of an irrelevance.  Oh the effing horror!  For this, the moral coward wing of the party hate his guts.

4. When you are shut out of the Legislature, you need to get yourself into the news somehow.

Finally, if a third of what I've been told about the other candidate is accurate (and I only have this second hand, though from a source I trust) the labour backers of the other candidate (who prefer to have the NBNDP as a yapping lapdog rather than an effective political vehicle) failed to do a proper vetting of their candidate, and that there are very serious matters which would have led to serious embarrassment for the party in NB and well beyond.

Caissa

stockholm wrote:
themselves as some sort of far left "ginger group" that is up an arms over appealing to the middle class - I might guess MAYBE 8 or 9 individuals - at most (i.e. one third year seminar class a UNB on "the Marxian perspective").
Much larger Stockholm and has a candidate in the wings.
"Modernization" regardless of how people want to spin it, is code for Blairism, the third way and moving the party to the centre.

Stockholm

I guess if you reject "modernization" - what does that make you? "archaic"?

KenS

I dont use the term- a lot because it can mean anything. But that isnt what I think it is- least of all the 'moving to the centre'.

There are some people who both subscibe to moving to the centre, and talk of 'modernizing'. But they arent the same thing.

And it seems to me that the NB NDP has been more 'centrist' than not since at least as far back as Elizabeth Weir. Maybe someone could explain to me what has changed other than their perception from reading between the lines about what is coming?

Reminds me of a similar kerfuffle earlyish in Alexa MacDonough's leadership of the federal party.

People hear some buzz words previously not used in the NDP, and they are off organizing against a perceived 'change of direction'. You know, bringing up ugly things like 'fiscal responsibility'.

I dont think there is any question that Dominic Cardy is not and never will be as left as you like. But neither was Dugay or Eliizabeth Weir. [Brewer I have no idea, and she was a blip on the screen.] But the perception that there is some change of direction in the offing is just that, a perception.

Stockholm

I don't see how anyone could disagree that something has to change in New Brunswick. here is a province that has the weakest and most unsuccessful NDP of any province in Canada (except PEI) and the weakest and most unsuccessful labour movement of any province in Canada (except maybe PEI) and the most UNinfluential and impotent "progressive civil society" of any province in Canada - Obviously the old way of doing things in NB has been a total flop - so out with the old and in with the new!

Caissa

Duguay is/was to the left of Cardy.

KenS

And this made a difference in the presentation of the NB NDP?

Caissa

Duguay was not in favour of the last campaign message crafted by Cardy and his ilk.

Stockholm

Duguay was the leader. He chose the campaign staff and he agreed to the message. If you're suggesting that he disagreed with everything he said during the campaign and that someone else put words in his mouth - then you're making a pretty serious charge against him. Either he was a puppet with no will of his own - or he was totally unethical and cynical....what was it?

Caissa

My oh my Stockholm you do like to reduce things to an either/or reductio ad absurdum. You simply need to read between the lines of his comments at the time of his resignation to realize what happened. Of course, you would rather not do this because you seem to support social democratic parties moving to the right. I see no other reason for you referring to members of the socialist caucus as "whackos' in another thread. Of course, you know that phraseology is insulting to individuals  with mental health concerns.

KenS

I'm not going to dismiss out of hand that the reading between the lines is not reasonably accurate.

But I've already seen some reading between lines about what was attributed to Cardy from a simple quote [see the OP and onwards], so I'm not ready to take your word for it.

Stockholm

I'm not "reading between any lines". I think you're grasping at straws trying to read imaginary things between imaginary lines.

I believe that when someone becomes the all-powerful omnipotent leader of a political party - that they have to take responsibility for all decisions that are taken and I HOPE that the leader believes what he or she is saying. If the leader doesn't believe in the message that the campaign staff recommends - he has two choices: resign, or fire the campaign staff and hire new people that will give him a message track he likes.

The leader calls the shots. You can't go through an entire period as leader and through a whole election campaign - with a team that you yourself hired - and then try to hint afterwards that you never actually agreed with anything that your hand picked team did.

Caissa

Neither of you have to take my word for it. Obviously those outside NB have a much better idea what is going on politically in NB than those of us who live here. Carry on.

Stockholm

I'm not attacking Roger Duguay's integrity. I think he's a good honourable man. Too bad others apparently are.

Caissa

I,also, think he is an honourable person. That;s why he resigned.

Stockholm

So you're saying he resigned AFTER lying and saying things he didn't believe in for about two years and AFTER not winning a seat?

Isn't the honourable thing to say what you believe in the first place or resign if you feel you are forced to say things you don't agree with BEFORE you say them???

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