NS NDP stalwart quits, denounces Dexter

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Fidel

Who's passing the buck on neoliberalism in Canada? Not me. It doesn't exist. Let's not go there. Say no more. The Ford stays in the yard. Shhh! Socialism in one province! teehee

remind remind's picture

Kropotkin,  I never said once their plight was  not great and significant,  it is.  However, that does not mean I am going to analyze this with blinders to reality on and a narrow focus. And analyzing critically and questioning how a debt of 120k got to be, does not make me a poor ally, nor envoking right wing commentary.

The truth remains, VAW programs across Canada are being slashed, that they have been promised a 500k increase in the face of this reality, to me is a good thing. Is it enough? NO. Should there be more? YES. But I am also aware that small provinces can only do so much without slashing elsewhere, when they are funding on their own  for the most part now, and it is all because of federal government slashes...

Had the government in NS remained the same old, same old Liberal or Conservative, they would not be seeing this increase even, most likely they would be seeing a decrease, just like every other province has.

 

Personally, I would like men to stop abusing women and children, thus making Transition Houses and VAW programs a thing of the past.  Imagine the cost savings to our society!

Unionist

Yeah, kropotkin, it's sad.

 

remind remind's picture

Sealed

remind remind's picture

Well RP, I lost my naivette a long time ago when it comes to political gamesmanship that people play.

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

removed

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

Was already editing my post out remind, apologies.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

remind wrote:

Kropotkin,  I never said once their plight was  not great and significant,  it is.  However, that does not mean I am going to analyze this with blinders to reality on and a narrow focus. And analyzing critically and questioning how a debt of 120k got to be, does not make me a poor ally, nor envoking right wing commentary.

Personally, I would like men to stop abusing women and children, thus making Transition Houses and VAW programs a thing of the past.  Imagine the cost savings to our society!

I think a $150K debt after 13 years of freezes is very impressive display of fiscal management. If any male right wing politician had the audacity to complain about that small a debt after this group has been providing services for that long on the same budget you would go ballistic. I would never consider questioning the management skills of these women on the facts that we have especially the size of the debt. I apologize for holding you to the same standard.

Then there is the problem of the war.  Halifax has had a lot of returning military I wonder if that is causing extra violence against women.

I wonder too if this naive women after decades of working to elect a government expected it too have put vulnerable women at the very top of their agenda.  Silly her for not understanding that battered women are not first in line. 

I too wish the men who batter and abuse would stop unfortunately they don't take my advice either but that doesn't mean I should accept that an NDP government can't do better when it comes to helping women who are in crisis now today at this very moment not in the next fucking budget cycle.  

remind remind's picture

You do not know when that 120k was realized as debt Kropotkin, and neither do I....however I doubt seriously that it has compounded  over the last 13 years.

 

Was going to address the fact of returning military and as such increases in abuse most likely are happening, but  that is a different avenue and really thought you or unionist would accuse me of deflecting, silly me, eh, as again it would be a federal issue, if such is the case, where the feds are again falling short on their commitments to the military they allegedly hold so dear, and indeed families too.

 

But hey go ahead and blame Dexter and the NDP.

 

And no problem on the holding me to the same standard, no need for an apology, as I just love men telling me I am a poor ally,  and attempting to guilt me for not complying or conforming to their standard of beliefs in what should, or should not happen.

 

Quite frankly, should I as woman, have become a new Premier,  who had to deal with coming into power part way through a budgetary year, I would not be shovelling money out of the coffers, until I got my feet beneath me, and investigations on what is needed by whom and why accomplished.

And indeed I would not be shovelling to those were formerly close to me in a politcal partisan way, until I was sure exactly what was transpiring, as that would open me up to charges of pork belly politics,  no matter what  and how worthy the cause is.

 

 

 

 

Unionist

remind wrote:

Quite frankly, should I as woman, have become a new Premier, having to deal with coming into power part way through a budgetary year, I would not be shovelling money out of the coffers, until I got my feet beneath me, and investigations on what is needed by whom and why accomplished.

Excellent. Only that's not the response that Dexter gave when asked this question.

Quote:
And inded I would not be shovelling to those closest to me in a politcal partisan way, until I was sure exactly what was transpiring, as that would open me up to charges of pork belly politics,  no matter what the cause is.

Very wise. The NDP had already refused to sign the pledge requested by the transition houses. Now, by delaying the funding, they could avoid any lingering charges of being in bed with the feminists.

 

 

remind remind's picture

My apologies unionist, I should be conforming to what you believe, I should be believing and doing.

 

As I can see you did not accept my stated position on how and why I was viewing this the way I am, so I am contrite and bowed before your magnificance of being the purveyour of all that is feminist and progressive..

 

 

Unionist

Apology graciously accepted.

Fidel

The NDP has the money - they just don't want to spend it on social programs and are holding out on social causes like transition houses. Therefore, the NS NDP are enemies of social democracy and social justice. Okay, we can close the thread now. We're done analyzing the entire situation. NDP = pyure evol mwahahaha

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Remind your passive aggressive spiel is very tiresome.  You cannot fall back on your gender as a shield in a debate about NDP policy and practice in relation to funding a women's transition centre. If so I would have to agree with Sara Palin on woman's issues because she is also female.

This debate goes on every time the NDP gets in power.  We can argue all we want about who is to blame but it always seems to lead to the activists who created the conditions for the electoral win being disenchanted and saying I'll devote myself to the cause not politics.  Don't you get the fact that it is the NDP that loses when it alienates the activists who toiled to get them elected. If you and Fidel care about the NDP then fix the problems you have in retaining activists instead of insulting them with demeaning arrogant posts.

Fidel

Nova Scotia voters aren't expecting solutions to all problems and every old line party legacy issue from their first provincial NDP. They just want a government that isnt corrupt for a change,  and for a provincial government to not put them in a debt hole while pawning off the family jewels and silverware to rich friends of the party. I think the NDP can deliver on that promise. They are modest goals for any provincial government, and the NDP has the best overall record when it comes to not doing a Maggie Thatcher of things at the provincial level in Bananada.

remind remind's picture

Funny, I find the overtly aggressive patriarchial mode that exists around here very tiring...

 

And it was not I who indicated my gender first at all now was it! In fact, I did not even dialogue as a woman until another did, to through it in my face that I was not being a good woman ally.

 

Just have a look back and see who did, so I was merely complying, as my feminist credentials, as a women were brought into question, and not by me....

 

and lookie here, because I did finally address it as a woman, from my own full perspective, after others shoved my gender,  and their perceptions of my lack of being an ally, upon me, in order to castigate and chastize me, I also get castigated and chastized for doing so.....and for stating that I did not really appreciate having  a man judge my worthiness as an ally of battered women and Transition Houses.

 

Bad me.....bad bad me....

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Remind I never mentioned your gender in post #50 when I talked about not being an ally.  You must mean someone else. 

In response to this woman activist leaving your party your first post #18 states:

"It all seems pretty damn phoney to me......"

The idea I didn't think you were acting like an ally had nothing to do with your gender.  The issue is not my views on the NDP the issue is that activist keeps leaving the party and many on this board go into attack mode instead of trying to figure out why.  Go ahead take another shot at the messenger.

 

 

Fidel

And the NDP are always getting themselves into power as someone mentioned before. Slobodan Dexter is practically running this Balkanized country now. He's holding them all to ransom out there. God help them.

remind remind's picture

Oh really kropotkin....your ally comments were nongender specific, oops....pardon me for taking it and the other comments made in the same, as if they were!

 

If activists leave a party after less than a year into it and before a budget allocation, then I would not want said activists backing me, or fighting for on anything, ever. In fact, such behaviour reminds me of Tzipi Berman's, hence my phoney remark.

 

But hey, that is my opinion only, and you and others have every right to have yours too....but please do respect my right to have mine without calling me a partisan, or calling my feminist and ally credentials into question.

 

It is demeaning and patriarchial.

Fidel

Stockholm wrote:

The Conservative MPP for Yarmouth who was named as one of the worst offenders in the expense "scandal" just resigned his seat in the Nova Scotia legislature. I know that the NDP won Yarmouth back in 1998 - should set up an interesting byelection.

[url=http://thechronicleherald.ca/Front/1166809.html]Hurlbutt quits[/url] Resignation follows days of drama over purchase of generator and his final fess-up over a big-screen TV

A big-screen TV? WTH?

Unionist

[url=http://thechronicleherald.ca/Front/9015059.html]Dexter fesses up, promises to repay taxpayers[/url]

Quote:
Nova Scotia Premier Darrell Dexter admitted through a spokesman today that he will reimburse taxpayers for a $2,150 digital camera, and $5,501 for two laptop computers mentioned in today's auditor general's report.

He's not resigning, though. With 160 years of corrupt two-party rule to clean up, he has a job to do.

Fidel

I can see a legit use for laptops in governmental affairs. But a big-screen TV he didn't admit to until the last dog was almost hung,  and an $8000 dollar generator, and of which Hurlbutt deliberately lied about donating to a senior citizens complex? Come on! Nova Scotians are somewhat disappointed about that one.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=17517

Quote: The argument is won: capitalism as an effective system to organize society and provide for human needs has expired. The evidence is conclusive.

..the above link appeared in another link but i find it germane to the discussion that has been going on here.
..whatever it is that the ndp is doing in canada, is no longer enough. it has not been for some time. that is not to say that the work that has been done has not been important but it has been done within the predefined framework of capitalism/whatever. without a doubt that has to change if ndp are going to meet the challenges that are needed to alter the economic and environmental madness we face.
..i know this but am at a loss for what to do about it other than organize my personal life as corporate free as i possibly can. i've come to this site often in hopes of finding a glimpse of what could save our asses but haven't yet. my guess is  decentralization of power to the grassroots. how this comes about i'm not sure. somehow we need to come together in places like rabble (and a 1000 other places) for discussion PLUS consensus on the direction we need to move in. then focus our energies to accomplish our goals.   

Unionist

Fidel wrote:

I can see a legit use for laptops in governmental affairs.

Then why is Dexter repaying the taxpayers? He's got money to burn? PC corruption bad, NDP corruption good?

 

remind remind's picture

Agree with unionist on this one, what the hell are they thinking buying private stuff for themselves on tax payer's dollars?

If it was for work use, with one at his constituency office and one at his office, then he should not be repaying anything.

 

And a 2100 digital camera is well.... ridiculous.

Fidel

Unionist wrote:

Fidel wrote:

I can see a legit use for laptops in governmental affairs.

Then why is Dexter repaying the taxpayers? He's got money to burn? PC corruption bad, NDP corruption good?

Will they call this one the PC scandal? Groan?

Unionist

Um, ok I got it: 40 inch TV BAD, coupla little 15 inch laptops and the most expensive digital camera on the market GOOD.

I'm sorry for being slow, but I'm new to the New Partisan Consumer Math Methodology.

 

Fidel

And don't forget the $8000 dollar generator. Apparently political conservatives in Nova Scotia need backup power in times they don't have it and need an uninterrupted supply of juice for their big-screen TVs. That way they'll never miss votes on important bills - televised debates in the legislature -  or Sidney Crosby and the game on TSN.

Slumberjack

Quote:
I'm sorry for being slow, but I'm new to the New Partisan Consumer Math Methodology.

Its been closely modelled after the Dave Dingwall Entitlement Plan.

Fidel

Yes! Absolutely. It ranks right up there with Trans-Canada Pipeline giveaway, the John Buchanan corruption-to-federal-appointment scandal, Airbus, big bank heist of 91, big bank heist of '09, the Manitoba MTS ripoff, or even Billy Vanderscam's fantasy gardens shananigans. Like they say, a little honest kick-back and graft, and a little influence peddling over 14 decades in a row never hurt any old line party politician in Bananada.

Unionist

Fidel, you're the one who raised the Big Screen TV Scandal here. Unfortunately, you didn't read far enough to realize that all three parties' MPs were grovelling and swilling at the trough. I do applaud your valiant effort to skate, luge, and bobsleigh around this little fork in the road, though. Now, can we please get back to condemning Pamela Harrison for not keeping her election promises?

 

Fidel

Okay, but I still don't see the connection between the MPP job description, big-screen TVs and $9000 dollar power generators. Was the Conservative party member planning on a complete home entertainment system eventually, or what was he thinking? I think I'd tend to want the rest of the party to keep all of their hands on the table in the legislature where everyone can see them at all times.

Angella

I think the focus in this has shifted to the money, and away from the issues that really mattered.  When the NDP were elected, people hoped that there would be a new way of doing business - Pamela quite clearly points out that 'things that would have cost nothing weren't done'.  Clear plans, open dialogues, respect, listening ... and I think she did it now because she still hopes that they can change into something closer to what they wanted to be before they were elected!

KenS

In the letter she says both, about the money too. But I think that captures the main spirit of her letter- that if groups organized around and for social justice issues had seen some signs of outreach, she wouldn't be writing this letter.

As I've noted above, environmentalists have had an entirley different experience with this government... and that includes around some not so small immediate or near term government expenditures, not to mention marching quickly down a path that leads to higher electricity rates.

I cannot speak at all with any knowledge of my own about the experience of social justice groups. But I can see some obvious factors at play here.

One is that the expenditures quickly made for wilderness areas were the fulfillment of campaign promises- like the promise of transition house increases that are for next year. So in both cases its the unfolding as planned.

As to the listening part. With environmental issues, the government has moved very quickly and the process has been more open than what it sounded like when it was announced. As noted upthread, the civil servants involved had done their homework before this government. So it was almost a matter of flipping the switch. Is no preparation a reason for not opening up in the same way to social justice groups? No. But there is that definite preparation difference, and this government does move cautiously and deliberately.

Lastly. It would be fair to say that Pamela and I both had a chip on our shoulders to the movers and shakers of this government. When the group I was in was discussing how to proceed in August, two months after the election, I was for not waiting and pressing them hard... because to my mind they had already shown enough of their intentions, or lack thereof. I was pretty much a minority of one, so we waited.

Pamelas letter comes several months later. But like I said, the government is starting from zero around juggling everytihing around social issues. 'Opening up' sounds simple to outsiders. But opening with no prior preparation in practice easily  leads to making tacit commitments without realzing that it happened, and without having considered the broader implications that will follow.

Bottom line, just because Pamela and others cannot see it- like I couldn't- its still early stages, and the government may already be moving in a manner closer to what they were hoping for.

David Young

Stockholm wrote:

The Conservative MPP for Yarmouth who was named as one of the worst offenders in the expense "scandal" just resigned his seat in the Nova Scotia legislature. I know that the NDP won Yarmouth back in 1998 - should set up an interesting byelection.

I hope no one is fooled by the reasons for Hurlbert's resignation.

It was well known in political circles that he was thinking of trying to become leader of the Nova Scotia Tories, but got less than 'overwhelming' support at last weekend's provincial P.C. gathering in Halifax.

He quit because he knew the Tories are going to be Nova Scotia's Third Party for the next 5-8 years, and would rather get ready to start collecting his nearly $42,000 pension sooner, rather than later.

Another rat jumping from the ship, just like Rodney and Angus.

 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

remind wrote:

Oh really kropotkin....your ally comments were nongender specific, oops....pardon me for taking it and the other comments made in the same, as if they were!

If activists leave a party after less than a year into it and before a budget allocation, then I would not want said activists backing me, or fighting for on anything, ever. In fact, such behaviour reminds me of Tzipi Berman's, hence my phoney remark.

I would accept your apology except it isn't an apology it is a slur so pardon me for posting on Babble in your presence.

I cannot figure for the life of me why many activists feel unwelcome in your party.  But hey this is all about you and your thin skin.  Any comment about the NDP you take as a personal insult when it isn't and then you proceed on your ropey dopey routine.  It is tiresome.

 

remind remind's picture

For gawd's sake kropotkin, the NDP is NOT my party.

Yes, upon occasion I am partisan, but I also have the ability to set that aside and give my own PERSONAL analysis, ya know.

 

It is really patriarchial of you to continue to insist  partisanship is at play here, as you apparewntly know me better than I do. That is what is really tiresome.

 

And ya want to talk about thin skin, as a privledged white male who cannot take a little heads up in the feminist forum, let's go for it....or how about we just stop this nonsense right here, and you stop telling me what position you think I am coming from, and I will stop  giving your shit back at you.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Sealed

Slumberjack

remind wrote:
the NDP is NOT my party....Yes, upon occasion I am partisan...

Laughing  A quote worthy of an entry at the hall of fame thread.

Caissa

I fear Dexter will be the Maritimes' Rae.

Fidel

Oh goody, another witch hunt. Well I am not afraid to declare my progressivity and personal support for one of 20 some-odd registered political parties. It's like when you're on the road - pick a lane,  and drive! And it's always a good idea to signal before you swerve right as a courtesy to other drivers. Waterboard me if you must, because I know the inquisition will find me guilty either way.

Fidel

Caissa wrote:

I fear Dexter will be the Maritimes' Rae.

Oh they're all Bob Rae Keynesians now with the spending to get us out of this latest neoliberalorama conundrum. Our ideologues have shot themselves in the feet, and now they can't find bandages big enough. Three recessions in three decades.

Slumberjack

Fidel wrote:
Oh goody, another witch hunt.

An unfortunate selection of words I'm sure, considering the context.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

I'm sure Remind will correct his language usage.

Caissa

ROFLMAO

David Young

Caissa wrote:

I fear Dexter will be the Maritimes' Rae.

The Darrell Dexter government will be infinitely better than the Rae government.

The N.S. NDP was the clear government in waiting, while Rae become Premier practically by fluke.

Since there won't be an election in Nova Scotia until the fall of 2013 (fixed-date election legislation should be coming in the next Legislative session!), getting most of the learning mistakes out of the way this early in their mandate will be the best thing for the Dexter government.

Darrell is someone who learns from his mistakes, and from those of others (Rae!)

Fidel

Slumberjack wrote:

Fidel wrote:
Oh goody, another witch hunt.

An unfortunate selection of words I'm sure, considering the context.

Do you like sex and travel?

 

 

remind remind's picture

Kropotkin, I just want to tell you, I love ya to pieces and am saddened by this communications breakdown between us.

 

But really could you just realize that sometimes there is partisanship at play and at other times there is only MY viewpoint in play. and respect me enough to accept when I indicate what is at play..

 

You need to remember please, I was on the leading edge of exposing Stupich, and if not for June and I, none of that nasty crap would have came out. That is how NON-partisan that I can be.

 

I have no blinders on, but I am wiilling to give people with the ranks of the party a fair chance to prove themselves, before I start shitting on their and my own corn flakes.

Fidel

Just put them on ignore, remind. They wouldn't stand to read what we really think of their commentary around here and would most likely whine like hell to the moderators.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

remind wrote:

I have no blinders on, but I am wiilling to give people with the ranks of the party a fair chance to prove themselves, before I start shitting on their and my own corn flakes.

Actually what I was going on about is the fact it seemed you were not willing to give Pamela a fair chance. I personally don't know her or the exact facts of the breakdown she has experienced with the party.  Given her long service to the party I see her as a canary in the mine shaft not someone doing something "damn phony".

I respect your opinions on most things and certainly on feminist issues. I truly was reacting to your damn phony comment nothing else.  I am serious when I say that the party needs to take this seriously its not like she hasn't put in the work to have a say in what she thought was HER party.  I didn't read anything phony into her remarks only a deep regret that the election win did not giver her the type of government she thought she was working towards.

Fidel i have probably worked on more winning NDP campaigns than most posters around here maybe including you.  I will speak out because it is my democratic right to speak especially in a forum dedicated to progressive debate.

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