babble Hall of Fame: version X.2.1

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Lord Palmerston

Stockholm wrote:
Yes, the big business elite and the oil patch likes having two conservative parties that can alternate in power - the Conservative (conservative) Party and Liberal (conservative) Party.

They don't like the idea that a non-conservative party might ever take power.

I'm not sure why these big "L" Liberals went on anhd on about how we all needed to "stop Harper" - when its clear that they agree with him about 98% of the time. i guess its what's called the narcissism of small difference. I think I saw some election research that showed that the only and only "issue" that unites Liberal supporters is personal dislike of Stephen Harper - but none of them mind his actual policies.

Anyways, rightwing liberals have as much right to exist as anyone - but don't come here trying to pretend to be "progressive" and then approvingly quote a red-baiting editorial from the calgary Herald!

al-Qa'bong

Where did this happen?

remind remind's picture

al-Qa'bong wrote:
Where did this happen?

Actually in what used to be the feminist forum.

http://rabble.ca/babble/feminism/boss-assaults-four-women-gets-unconditi...

 

Snert Snert's picture

Not that I'm complaining about being censured by a mod, but doesn't it sort of cheapen the Hall of Fame if it's just a place to gloat   when someone you don't like gets warned?

kropotikin1951, was that rather ordinary post REALLY that exciting for you? 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Catchfire, on passive aggressive postings, wrote:

[Generic troll name], you've been warned about displaying contempt for leftist politics through your baiting before. I think you know what's wrong with post 7 and you're smart enough to be more precise in your smearing off the left, this board and it's politics. Be more judicious in the future.

Yup thats the way to do.  

ETA

Sorry Snert but this has nothing much to do with you.  I quoted Catchfire and that was my focus.  I have taken your name out of it so you get that you are not my focus.

Slumberjack

I don't know that using [Generic troll name] improves anything either.

Fidel

Tommy_Paine wrote:

"DSK is about as threatening to global imperialism as Tony Blair."

genstrike, throwing the truth around with wild abandon, # 38, here:

 

http://rabble.ca/babble/international-news-and-politics/head-internation...

 

Yeah that was pretty good. And especially when no one in that thread was suggesting DSK is a champion of democracy or that he is not a sexual predator.

When in doubt, lynch first and ask questions later.

al-Qa'bong

oldgoat?  It's time.

Snert Snert's picture

Quote:

Sorry Snert but this has nothing much to do with you.  I quoted Catchfire and that was my focus.  I have taken your name out of it so you get that you are not my focus.

 

Wow. Speaking of passive-aggressive postings, it's funny that you replaced my name with [Generic troll name]. Also funny that you edited Catchfire's post down to just the part addressing me.

 

If you've got something to say, say it.

 

 

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Please don't import personal vendettas into the hall of fame thread. This thread is for happy feelings only.

bagkitty bagkitty's picture

Meanwhile, back to hall of fame-worthy things...

Caissa, in the CRACKDOWN on conspiracy theorism thread

Caissa wrote:

Didn't an US Supreme Court justice say he couldn't define pornography but he could recognize it when he saw it? I feel in a similar manner about conspiracy theories. The almost always fly in the face of Occam's Razor.

 

 

Unionist

Tommy_Paine, on the difference between Bigfoot and religion:

Quote:
Bigfoot goes down on the science of it. [...] But religion cowers and claims special protection from such examination, and those who hold those positions get all huffy and feel persecuted when their ideas wither in front of reasoned probing. 

So I'm not so sure it's us being rude, so much as the awakening.

Lovely! From [url=http://rabble.ca/babble/babble-banter/about-being-offended#comment-12692....

bagkitty bagkitty's picture

ottawaobserver, writing about the appointment of Nycole Turmel as interim federal NDP leader

Quote:

But the commentary on Nycole Turmel is really moronic, because they've settled on this idiotic line that she is a three-month old rookie MP, and thus knows nothing about "politics", whereas every business man who ever walked Bay Street (or prof from Harvard) is assumed to be instantly qualified to be Prime Minister.

Unionist

[url=http://rabble.ca/babble/international-news-and-politics/us-presidential-... - who else? - explaining U.S. politics:

Quote:

I've been following US politics since Eisenhower, and, if you'll exuse my use of the vulgate, it gets more fucking nuts every year.  Exponentially so I might add. Like really it's gone from Dr. Strangelove to a bad Coen brothers movie way past anything The Onion could imagine as satire, right into the realm of methyl alchohol induced nightmares.

They should replace bloody Washington on their money with Edvard Munch's 'the Scream"!

 

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

Quote:

Negative - Does not present himself in a manner consistent with the norms of the dominant culture

Very worthy of discussion. Sadly, before our time.

quizzical

AnonymousMouse was pretty funny in one of the last NDP leadership threads:

 

Mulcair made a serious mistake by announcing his new pension plan and the important endorsement of Don Davies while Rabble was rife with discussion of Malcolm's ban.

Talk about letting yourself get up staged!

 

Unionist

Slumberjack wrote:

Proposing something and having it shot down by contradictory evidence, and subsequently accepting the revisions while moving on all the better for it is fundamental, no matter how difficult it sometimes is, because even recognizing the origins of a difficulty to accept contradictory arguments can be instructive.  

As for Rabble, people have often stated how much they've acquired from the perspectives introduced on the board over the years, but not nearly as often as it goes without being said.  Sometimes there's a sense that people arrive to the board or to a discussion believing they know all thats required.  But its also a place that occasionally reveals its own internal contradictions, teachable moments of another sort as it were.

From [url=http://rabble.ca/babble/body-and-soul/rest-reality#comment-1367216http:/... Rest of Reality[/url].

 

lagatta

That was great. One of the reasons bureaucracy can grow is the fact that too many "rank-and-file" trade unionists view their union as an insurance policy, not a working-class organisation.

Slumberjack

Unionist wrote:
kropotkin nailed it:

What has your Union President heard from you the union member since  he/she took office? Your Business Manager? Your Union Executive?

Blah

Blah

blah....

lagatta wrote:
That was great. One of the reasons bureaucracy can grow is the fact that too many "rank-and-file" trade unionists view their union as an insurance policy, not a working-class organisation.

It's as we might have expected, that no matter where the worker turns, a bureaucracy will eventually rise to blame the worker for the conditions they find themselves in.  Apparently, as with electoral politics, they get the representation they deserve.  I'd flag all of this as misguided anti-worker propaganda from the bureaucracy itself were it not for my dislike of institutionalized authoritarianism in general.  As you were.  Lets see now, what else can be blamed on the lower rungs of society?

Caissa

I don't think so, Slumberjack. I think it is a reminder that the union is the workers not some bureaucracy. The right has done a good job in recent decades of supporting the latter narrative.

Slumberjack

I go back to a point I made in another thread about the average low paid union worker with little time on their hands for activism, because of the exigencies of bare life survival, work that is.  They pay union dues and taxes alike so that others may represent their interests, while they busy themselves with food, shelter and family.  And I think experience, or at least anecdotal testimony, should be more than enough to inform us that when citizens/workers complain about their political or union bosses, it's generally seen as an unwelcomed intrusion into higher up affairs in any event.  We should start a hall of infamy thread, because here the worker is being simultaneously described as louts and ingrates, for being too lazy and self absorbed to help their leaders with managing everything on the one hand, and for being unappreciative of the efforts undertaken on their behalf.  If any of this appears to have a certain familiarity to it, its because this is the same argument SunNewz applies across the board against any determination that objects to the prevailing order of things, most recently against INM.  Now I know full well that this is certainly not the intent of Unionist, Kropotkin or Lagatta, but from the little that I know, each of them in their respective latitudes and struggles have enjoyed positions of leadership, and I felt this was noteworthy enough to be sounded out.

Slumberjack

Unionist wrote:
Interesting notion - that leaders are bad, corrupt, lazy, comfortable, ulteriorly motivated... Kind of what I read about union leaders, Indigenous leaders, leaders of countries and liberation movements that resist imperialism... 

Fodder for another thread for sure, because there is enough evidence nowadays to suggest that resisting imperialism has become somewhat estranged from bargaining over its favours.

NorthReport

Thanks Slumberjack

Slumberjack wrote:

I go back to a point I made in another thread about the average low paid union worker with little time on their hands for activism, because of the exigencies of bare life survival, work that is.  They pay union dues and taxes alike so that others may represent their interests, while they busy themselves with food, shelter and family.  And I think experience, or at least anecdotal testimony, should be more than enough to inform us that when citizens/workers complain about their political or union bosses, it's generally seen as an unwelcomed intrusion into higher up affairs in any event.  We should start a hall of infamy thread, because here the worker is being simultaneously described as louts and ingrates, for being too lazy and self absorbed to help their leaders with managing everything on the one hand, and for being unappreciative of the efforts undertaken on their behalf.  If any of this appears to have a certain familiarity to it, its because this is the same argument SunNewz applies across the board against any determination that objects to the prevailing order of things, most recently against INM.  Now I know full well that this is certainly not the intent of Unionist, Kropotkin or Lagatta, but from the little that I know, each of them in their respective latitudes and struggles have enjoyed positions of leadership, and I felt this was noteworthy enough to be sounded out.

onlinediscountanvils

Well said, Slumberjack.

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

This thread is really about lauding fellow babblers for their contributions. It's not the place for this kind of debate -- I appreciate Unionist's appreciation of krop's post, which has a lot of good stuff here, but we should be careful about reposting stuff that could be construed as a beatdown of another babbler, even if that wasn't the original intent (as I'm sure it wasn't).

At any rate, can we move this discussion elsewhere? Perhaps to NorthReport's original thread? And add to that that all of us love labour and unions and each other? Great.

Unionist

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Unionist

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Unionist

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Unionist

/

NorthReport

Thanks Catchfire and well said.

Unionist

In reply to the notion that Mulcair should be "careful" because of where the "public" is on Indigenous matters and Idle No More in particular:

ennir wrote:


What I find hilarious, in a dark way,  is that many Canadians appear to be perfectly okay with being openly racist, and that these racists feel that they are the majority and therefore they are right.  It is not surprising, this was the intent of our education system, to exclude the history of the treaties was to erase them.  I wonder what this country would be like if they had been honoured from the beginning, if there had been respect, from the beginning.

Sadly, I think genocide has always been the program, I do not think that there ever was any honour in treaties signed by absent royalty, not even the intent of honour.  I think the intent for this land from the very beginning was rape and only rape.  There may have been individuals that acted from a place of respect but the program never had integrity.

Machiavalli said regarding invasion, don't send any an army, send settlers, they will build their own army.  And here we are  the Canadian Settlers army, illiterate basically when it comes to the true history of this land, illiterate to our own history of how our connection to the earth was lost, smug in our ignorance and cruelty, perfect victims really, recreating victimhood for others.

As an aside, years ago I had the opportunity to ask a question of Jean Charest and when he answered I saw the words come out both sides of his mouth and though he spoke for some time at the end of it he had not said anything at all that he could ever be held accountable for and I thought, THIS is forked tongue and what a brilliant way to describe it. 

As for Mulcair, his actions are predictable, it seems he will only meet with whoever Harper will meet with, so even though Teresa Spence is ten minutes away he doesn't have the time to walk over and say I support you, but then he didn't support her did he, he thought it was okay to tell her to end her hunger strike and in doing that he demonstrated how profoundly he doesn't get it.  He makes himself irrelevent.

I first learned how wonderful teasing is as a way teaching from Cree women and when I cooked for a group of young Cree men when they started teasing me I knew I had been accepted, perhaps it is too much to ask of the First Nations peoples to share their teasing with us but I am convinced that making fun of the dominant racist culture is one way to penetrate the bullshit.

My heart is gladdened by Idle No More, I think it is showing all of us who we are together, who we really are, and the message I hear from the First Nations people over and over is one of invitation, that they are willing to meet, given our history of betrayal, for me demonstrates the greatness of their spirit.  I am humbled and grateful to be invited to dance.

Sorry, I couldn't find any part of that to edit out...

 

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Fantastic! Super post, rinne.

Unionist

Here's Michelle, deconstructing the modus operandi of the kinder and gentler Kathleen Wynne Liberals vs. the anti-labour Mike Harris crowd:

Michelle wrote:

I just listened to her new Education Minister on CBC Radio Metro Morning (Toronto), claiming that Bill 115 was really Mike Harris's fault.

And she was all, yes, we imposed the contract and we're not opening the contract again. I'm focused on thinking of the children and getting extra-curriculars back. And we'll talk about how we can do collective bargaining in the future so that we don't have to take measures like Bill 115 again. 

"I know I robbed you at knife point, but I had to do it, and I'm not going to give back anything I took from you.  I'm not sorry, but as a gesture of good faith, I threw the knife away.  And I'd like to talk with you about how we can negotiate you giving me whatever I want in future without me having to go get another knife.  Now, after such a generous gesture on my part, can we talk about you babysitting my kids for free?  What, you don't want to?  Come on, don't take your anger at me out on my kids!"

"I know I beat you up, but I had to do it. Let's meet and discuss how you can obey me in future without me having to beat you up.  But the important thing now is that you start cooking supper again every night.  Do it for the kids."

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

A second consecutive, latest amongst countless, entry into the Hall of Fame for Michelle, this time about the Federal Liberal Party and Martha Hall Findlay's musings on class in Canada:

Michelle wrote:

The hilarious thing is that MHF is just putting into words the attitude of the whole Liberal Party.  If anything, she's the one being true to Liberal Party "principles".  She's asking Trudeau why he's bothering to talk about class when the Liberal Party isn't about class analysis - and she's right!

Finally, a Liberal who refuses to pretend she's a lefty like so many others do when they're campaigning.  It's funny to listen to Liberals talk about class when they're campaigning as if they're on the side of the working class (or, in their more palatable terms, the "middle class"), and then when they get into power, showing their real faces and waging class war AGAINST the working class.

Nice to see a Liberal who finally tells the truth about what the party is.  I think she'd make a great leader of the Liberal Party.

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

JKR on why Mike Duffy's fudging of records is the least of Canadians' problems when it comes to the Senate:

All kidding aside, there is no connection between the wasting of tax dollars and Senators spending less time in their designated provinces. Let's say Duffy resigns or is deposed of because of his contravention of the Senate's residency rules. In that case Harper would likely appoint another ultra partisan Conservative party hack from PEI. Let's say Duffy's ultra partisan replacement abides by the Senate's residency rules. Would this new ultra partisan Senator be less wasteful of tax dollars than Duffy has been because they spend more time in PEI? Of course not, because the problem with the Senate is not its residency rules. 

The problem with the Senate is not its residency laws. The problem with the Senate isn't even the amount of money it costs because if it was a democratically representative  institution that provided good governance for Canadians, money would not be an issue. The problem with the Senate is that it does not democratically represent the will of Canadians and thus it does not provide good governance.

mark_alfred

I think Junkyard Dogs' post on a news item regarding Toronto's mayor Rob Ford (posted March 26, 2013 - 12:43pm) is worth recognition.

6079_Smith_W

http://rabble.ca/comment/1395562#comment-1395562

 

radiorahim:

"The technical is political"

truer words were never spoken.

seconded by Unionist

 

6079_Smith_W

dp

Left Turn Left Turn's picture

Jacob Two-Two in the BC Election Day Reactions thread, on activism to push lesser evil governments to be less evil:]

Jacob Two-Two wrote:
Lessen the lesserness of its lessitude? Here endeth the lessen.

 

Unionist

A succinct glimpse of both sides of the eternal babble debate:

onlinediscountanvils wrote:

janfromthebruce wrote:
I remember when labour attacked the rae ndp GOVT

Funny... I remember the reverse happening.

From [url=http://rabble.ca/babble/canadian-politics/what-wrong-ns-ndp#comment-1399....

 

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Fidel, I removed your last post. The Hall of Fame is not the place for vendettas.

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Take it to rabble reactions, Fidel.

Fidel

Catchfire wrote:

Fidel, I removed your last post. The Hall of Fame is not the place for vendettas.

That was no vendetta believe me.  Personal attacks against me are a given and nothing new for me here on babble nor do I expect them to cease anytime soon.

But someone posting about Ontario's first and last NDP government that hasn't been in power for 18 years? That is what's known as a feuding vendetta specialist. Smile

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

arborman waxes about babble of old, anonymity online and personal growth:

arborman wrote:
While anonymity allows some people to be arseholes, the solution is not to stifle our freedom to engage in political or other speech and discussion.  There are many reasons to retain our anonymity, and few reasons to give it up.  A right to be free of arseholes seems a bit too difficult to enforce.  And there is no way I would submit any kind of 'request for anonymity' to anyone in hopes of being allowed to remain anonymous - by default that would tell at least one person who I am.

Lard Tunderin Jeezus Lard Tunderin Jeezus's picture

lagatta, speaking for us all:

 "I utterly loathe Stephen Harper, but I don't wish him dead - just out of office, and facing any relevant charges."

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Slumberjack, responding to Chavez-baiters without taking the bait:

Slumberjack wrote:
If we say that Capitalism spends an inordinate amount of other people's money around the world on security and surveillance to protect it's investments, in every facet of life that we can imagine because it feels besieged by enemies, then capitalism can only work in an atmosphere of ever expanding contingencies against whatever social objections and actions that the system gives rise to.  Capitalism makes it clear everyday through public broadcasts in it's media organizations that it feels besieged and threatened by enemies, even amongst general populations that it says it is working on behalf of.  Enemies are even created from those nations who mind their own business within their own countries, and who do not have the capacity to threaten other nations.  Merely the presence of a desire for a different economic system is insult enough for capitalists.  Similarly, Venezuelan socialism is beset by enemies who cannot tolerate people working toward a successful, socialist society that rejects capitalist models for itself.  Wherever socialism emerges, it is usually ringed by enemies and infiltrated in extremely violent ways, and when socialist governments spend too much time reacting, and less resources are put at the disposal of the masses, this is described by capitalists as failure even as they're the initiators of the situation.  Usually the capitalist scumbags and their supporters don't find it curious at all that 1000s of arrests and beatings of protesters in Capitalist nations, under-reported and misrepresented as they are in the capitalist media, is never seen as the system not working out so well.  Suppression of dissent is seen as the success and triumph of law and order, which as we're told is an integral part of capitalist societies.  Dissenters are seen, even among some nominal leftists, as criminals and terrorists who at the very least are placed on lists, presumably for currently unspecified attention in the event that capitalism deems such attention necessary.  We can never be sure when this might be determined, but we can be quite sure that everything is being watched and recorded toward purposes that they're not letting on.  To say socialism doesn't work is to neglect how beautifully it works around the world for capitalist industry and the financial sector, which is a statement consistent with myopic ignorance if you ask me.  It's when somebody else comes up with the idea of expanding socialism to the masses, and after all manner of violence and subterfuge are thrown against it, that socialism is depicted as a failure.

laine lowe laine lowe's picture

Bravo, Slumberjack!

Quote:
Similarly, Venezuelan socialism is beset by enemies who cannot tolerate people working toward a successful, socialist society that rejects capitalist models for itself.  Wherever socialism emerges, it is usually ringed by enemies and infiltrated in extremely violent ways, and when socialist governments spend too much time reacting, and less resources are put at the disposal of the masses, this is described by capitalists as failure even as they're the initiators of the situation.

When you consider it in this context, Cuba has done a remarkable job in surviving against US retribution.

Unionist

Quote:
..in 2008 i decided to go on a trip. i was mostly retired and didn’t have the cash so got a job as a security guard. it was a sweet gig as i patrolled an empty city building on the dtes. i was locked inside. along the outside of the building were these small alcoves where homeless people would come at night and sleep. i befriended one fellow who said he had been sleeping there for more than 2 years. it was a safe place.

..across the street they had just completed a high rise and people were moving in. a part of the gentrification program. one evening i was outside getting some fresh air when one of the new tenants came across to talk to me. he asked me to remove the guy that had been there for 2 years. i tried to dissuade him nicely from his mission but he insisted. and when i refused he threatened to tell my boss. i gave him the number and told him to fuck off.

By epaulo13 in the [url=http://rabble.ca/babble/activism/spike-lee-on-gentrification#comment-142... Lee on gentrification[/url] thread.

bagkitty bagkitty's picture

Rokossovksy, on mistaking labels for, you know, something else:

Rokossovsky wrote:

My friend, it is highly doubful that the provincial Liberals are "liberals" -- we are talking about political world view, not lapel pins.

ETA: I don't think it overly presumptuous to suggest that "doubtful" was intended, rather than "doubful".

 

In "Mayor Tory the Tory"

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

Good, no doubt, pretty sad state of affairs.

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