"Canada Day" or "Dominion Day"?

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NDPP
"Canada Day" or "Dominion Day"?

"Canada Day" or "Dominion Day"

http://canada.mediamonitors.net/content/view/full/63926

"As Canadians prepare to celebrate their national holiday, few will realize that they are also celebrating a dirty bit of political chicanery.."

and lots more might just enjoy the holiday in various and sundry ways and places..

Maysie Maysie's picture

It's a day off work. 

There's nothing to celebrate.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

I think I initiated a thread with the same name on original old babble. I wonder if it can be accessed?

WillC

Quote:
...There's nothing to celebrate.

 Celebration is in the eye of the beholder. Have we done terrible things in our history?  Are there not great injustices still occurring now? Yes.

Still I can celebrate that I don't live in Zimbabwe, Iran, or Russia.  Imperfect as we are, corny as it sounds, it's obviously much better to live here than in many other countries in the world.

But mostly I can quietly celebrate that I don't live in the US.  Here we can give the day a muted hurrah.  It was more muted, and less rah rah red white and blue when we called it Dominion Day, anachronistic as it may sound.

Aristotleded24

Banjo wrote:
Imperfect as we are, corny as it sounds, it's obviously much better to live here than in many other countries in the world.

I'll also point out that Canada is blessed with great natural beauty and a rich culture to which several ethnic communities have contributed.

I think it's actually quite sad, when you think about the potential that Canada offers, and we are willing to just quietly let it slip away.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Michael Valpy, Globe and Mail, July 1, 1994:

Quote:
Today is our national holiday. Our national government says it is canvassing citizen opinion on what actions should be taken to strengthen and enshrine national symbols, national values, national mythologies.

Many politicians are becoming involved in this. The House of Commons standing committee on citizenship and immigration has just published a report titled Canadian Citizenship: A Sense of Belonging.

The politicians are being busy about this because, previously, the politicians have stripped away national mythologies, buried our history, bleached the colour out of national life, trashed the symbols of the past, left Canadians with a denuded sense of their country, with a sense of nothing to belong to or worth belonging to.

These politicians are the legislative vandals who took the coat of arms off the mailboxes, who changed the very Canadian Department of External Affairs into the dull, unenjoyed Department of Foreign Affairs, who have obliterated the word "Dominion" from the Canadian language, who even now are fiddling with the oath of allegiance so as to wipe out, by stealth, more of our heritage.

Now they ask for our ideas on how to fix things. Very well, we start with a single step. We do this, on July 1 - we all stand up and go out our doors and shout at Jean Chretien: "Give us back Dominion Day]" For those of you who have joined us in Canada since 4:05 p.m. EDT on Friday, July 9, 1982, Dominion Day was the historical, poetic, unique, magnificent name we gave to our national holiday and the founding date of Canada 127 years ago. It was chosen from the same beautiful passage of the King James Version of the Bible - the 72nd Psalm - that gave us our national motto: "He shall have dominion also from sea to sea."

The word was ours.

And at 4:05 p.m. on July 9, 1982 - on a dozy summer afternoon when Canadians justifiably were paying attention to the absence of winter rather than to the demolition of their heritage - 13 shabby, scuttling members of Parliament (seven short of a quorum) in five minutes passed a bill through the House of Commons to change the name to Canada Day.

They performed as little people, with no sense of history, of mystique, of poetry, with no sense of lyricism, no sense in their heart of the nation's grandeur.

They performed as little people without music in their souls, little people who thought that by stripping their country of everything provocative and evocative, they would create something offensive to none.

What they created was something meaningless to all - a term, Canada Day, so insipidly bland, so dull, so perfectly the product of a bureaucratic committee, so juiceless, so much fodder for the world's jokes about us as a people who make the Swiss seem exciting, the Belgians exotic and the Swedes imaginative.

Give us back Dominion Day.

Cleanse the awful guilt of those who polluted us with Canada Day. David Smith, now the Liberal Party's fugleman in Ontario and ringmaster at the time of the Commons Gang of Shame - let him sleep again at night. Wipe the stain from the memory of the departed Conservative, Walter Baker. Bring peace to the troubled conscience of New Democrat Mark Rose, now in exile in England.

Think of this: After the Gang of Shame did its work, the Baptist Federation of Canada went straightaway to Ottawa and told a parliamentary committee that the name Canada Day is meaningless and contributes "nothing to stir the emotions of our people." Baptists were left cold by it.

Give us back Dominion Day, give us back the word "Dominion."

It enabled Edward Blake, that towering figure of Liberalism from our past and one of the greatest constitutional lawyers Canada has ever produced, to proclaim in London in 1870: "Canada is not merely a colony or a province . . . she is a Dominion."

The beloved late senator Eugene Forsey called it the only distinctive word Canadians have contributed to political terminology.

We are the Dominion of Canada - we are still the Dominion of Canada. Section 3 of the Constitution Act 1867 says the country is "One Dominion under the Name of Canada" and "One Dominion under that Name accordingly."

The government in Ottawa is the Dominion government. It is the Dominion Parliament, the Dominion Bureau of Statistics, the Dominion Experimental Farms, the Dominion Observatory, the Dominion Observatory Time Signal (the beeps on CBC-Radio at 1 p.m. Sunday).

Give us back Dominion Day.

Get the dirty bootprints of those awful politicians off our history and never let them walk on it again.

West Coast Greeny

^

Ech. Let's just call it Canada Day, and use it as an excuse to take a camping trip, have a BBQ, and shoot off some fireworks.

That or earn time and a half, which is what I'll be doing.

Wilf Day

I will, as usual, be wearing Mike Valpy's T-shirt today.

Boom Boom wrote:
I think I initiated a thread with the same name on original old babble. I wonder if it can be accessed?

As with far too much Canadian history, vandals outwitted archivists, and trashed it.

However, here's a good reference:

Quote:
The call of the editorial is annually repeated in eloquent Dominion Day columns in The Globe and Mail by Michael Valpy, who supplemented his efforts in 1996 with a highly successful T-shirt campaign. In his column for July 1, 1994, Valpy cited William Forsey to the effect that "Dominion" is "the only distinctive word that Canadians have contributed to political terminology." A similar point was made by Robertson Davies in a letter in response to The Globe and Mail’s original editorial. "What folly," Davies added, "moved a handful of parliamentarians to trash th[e] splendid title [of Dominion Day] in favour of the wet ‘Canada Day’—only one letter removed from the name of a soft drink— must remain one of the inexplicable lunacies of a democratic system temporarily running to seed." Perhaps it was the resemblance between "Canada Day" and "Canada Dry" that recommended the term to the parliamentarians?

Shorter: I refuse to call my country's national holiday by a name that sounds like the brainchild of a marketer at the Real Canadian Superstore*.

My real concern is historical illiteracy: Canada is far older than Confederation, or the Dominion. Canada was that part of British North America that resisted the call of the First Continental Congress in 1774, which invited Quebec, Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island to join them. By no coincidence, in 1774 the Quebec Act was passed. It restored the use of the French civil law, and it allowed public office holders to practice the Roman Catholic faith. The Americans found this intolerable, and complained that it promoted the growth of papism. The Quebec Act is listed as one of the rebels' grievances in the Declaration of Independence.

Canada was re-organized in 1791, in 1840, and in 1867. We have a hell of a lot of history before 1867, such as the rebellions of 1837. The election of the first assembly of representatives in Canada took place in 1758 in Nova Scotia. It was followed by elections in Prince Edward Island in 1773, New Brunswick in 1785, Lower Canada (Quebec) and Upper Canada (Ontario) in 1792. "Canada Day" suggests our country did not start until 1867: as I said, historical illiteracy. 

Unionist

Why do more Canadians shop at Dominion than at any other store?

Why, it's mainly because of the meat.

 

Michelle

I'm guessing Michael Valpy ISN'T Indigenous? 

"Dominion Day" is obnoxious.  It's an in-your-face fuck-you to the first peoples whose lands we stole from them.

"Dominion" indeed.  Jesus.

Unionist

"... and Death shall have no dominion."

Dylan Thomas

A_J

NoDifferencePartyPooper wrote:
"Canada Day" or "Dominion Day"

Commemoration Day

remind remind's picture

Michelle wrote:
I'm guessing Michael Valpy ISN'T Indigenous? 

"Dominion Day" is obnoxious.  It's an in-your-face fuck-you to the first peoples whose lands we stole from them.

"Dominion" indeed.  Jesus.

Why is it any more of an in-your- face fuck-you, than Canada Day is?

Lard Tunderin Jeezus Lard Tunderin Jeezus's picture

Michelle wrote:

I'm guessing Michael Valpy ISN'T Indigenous? 

"Dominion Day" is obnoxious.  It's an in-your-face fuck-you to the first peoples whose lands we stole from them.

"Dominion" indeed.  Jesus.

Why?

Or at least, why more so than 'Canada Day'?

Wilf Day

I'm no great fan of the phrase "He shall have dominion also from sea to sea." It was our second choice in the years leading up to 1867. We would have been the Kingdom of Canada, except for one problem: that would have been waving a red flag in the face of the American bull. Dominion, being a new term, was less inflammatory.

So "Confederation Day" would have been fine.

"Canada Day" is a misleading, inaccurate, and commercial-sounding name. 

 

Maysie Maysie's picture

I vote for Colonization Day. The historical inaccuracy of the date July 1, 1867 would be a deliberate invocation of all lies that we were taught in Canadian public schools about the noble and proud history of Canada. The truths that weren't told, still aren't told, about the mass slaughter, genocide and rape, which allow us to be here, right now: immigrants, children and grandchildren of immigrants, and descendants of settlers.

George Victor

quote:

 

I'm guessing Michael Valpy ISN'T Indigenous? 

"Dominion Day" is obnoxious.  It's an in-your-face fuck-you to the first peoples whose lands we stole from them.

"Dominion" indeed.  Jesus.

------------------------------------------------------

Michael Valpy cut his journalist's teeth at the old Peterborough Examiner under the tutelage of then editor and owner-in-waiting Robertson Davies (whose thoughts on Canada vs Dominion Day are made known above, and whose attempts at involving FN people in his scribblings always came out cigar-store wooden).

 

But on the subject of history (wonderful revelation about our southern neighbours and the Declaration of Independence, Wilf) was it William Forsey or Eugene who attempted to set us straight?

 

 

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

"Canada Day" to me sounds so unimaginative and commercial, and it reminds me of Bobby Gimby in 1967 leading a parade of idiots down the street singing "CAH NAH DAH". Gahhhhh....... Yell

Tigana Tigana's picture
Lard Tunderin Jeezus Lard Tunderin Jeezus's picture

Maysie wrote:

I vote for Colonization Day. The historical inaccuracy of the date July 1, 1867 would be a deliberate invocation of all lies that we were taught in Canadian public schools about the noble and proud history of Canada. The truths that weren't told, still aren't told, about the mass slaughter, genocide and rape, which allow us to be here, right now: immigrants, children and grandchildren of immigrants, and descendants of settlers.

Colonization was occurring long before 1867. And mass slaughter was really the American approach; the British/Canadian approach to genocide was far more slow and somewhat more subtle.

ennir

Last evening I was speaking with a friend about the colonization of Canada and the idea that there were vast tracts of unoccupied lands for the settlers to take, according to him this is not true.  His family goes back a long ways and he has been told that there were many, many people here, that the prairies were well populated.  Where did they go?

I am with Maysie, I think we should call it what it is and it is the celebration of colonialism.

 

 

remind remind's picture

Quote:
Where did they go?

Disease, starvation, poisoning,  residential schools, outright murder, and in SK they shipped many south across the border with the lying promise of awaiting jobs, after buying their land allotments for SFA.

 

M. Spector M. Spector's picture
Michelle

Well, M. Spector, Google is American.  I've noticed that Mounties are a generic and romantically benign "Canadian" symbol down there.

ennir

remind wrote:

Quote:
Where did they go?

Disease, starvation, poisoning,  residential schools, outright murder, and in SK they shipped many south across the border with the lying promise of awaiting jobs, after buying their land allotments for SFA.

 

Exactly, I think that counts as mass murder.

Yes, how genteel we Canadians are, these days we don't send the troops in to shoot people like the Peruvian government did recently, we simply withhold decent medical care and basic nutrition and they die.

Ze

M. Spector wrote:

Michael Valpy, Globe and Mail, July 1, 1994:

Quote:

These politicians are the legislative vandals who took the coat of arms off the mailboxes, who changed the very Canadian Department of External Affairs into the dull, unenjoyed Department of Foreign Affairs, who have obliterated the word "Dominion" from the English Canadian language, who even now are fiddling with the oath of allegiance so as to wipe out, by stealth, more of our heritage.

Edit to correct Valpy's error. I assume he simply made a typo rather than being an egocentric Upper-Canadian ass raised on Orange Lodge bromides and lashings of the Maple Leaf Forever.

"Considérant que les provinces du Canada, de la Nouvelle-Écosse et du Nouveau-Brunswick ont exprimé le désir de contracter une Union Fédérale pour ne former qu'une seule et même Puissance (Dominion) sous la couronne du Royaume-Uni de la Grande-Bretagne et d'Irlande, avec une constitution reposant sur les mêmes principes que celle du Royaume-Uni..."

"Jour de la Puissance," now maybe that's an apt name after all. Then we could get out there and fight the power...

--

"One law for the lion and the ox is oppression" - Blake

Aristotleded24

Wilf Day wrote:
the rebellions of 1837

I mention this because I want to point out how our cultural mythology as Canadians doesn't necessarily reflect reality. We get all self-righteous in believing we are a much more peace-loving country than the US. The truth is, Canada's history is just as violent and bloody as any other, from the deportation of the Acadians, the Plains of Abraham and the American Revolution, the 1837 rebellions, and the Red River uprisings of 1870 and 1885. To drift a bit, Michael Moore explained in Bowling For Columbine that American history is no more violent than that of any other country.

sachinseth sachinseth's picture

LOL that google logo with the mountie is hilarious.

torontoprofessor

When I was a kid, I was always confused about the relationship between "Dominion Day" and Dominion the grocery store. I vaguely rememer entertaining various hypotheses: (1) Dominion Day was a celebration sponsored and funded by Dominion (sort of the like the Eaton's Santa Claus parade); (2) when I realized that Dominion Day was a celebration of the founding of Canada, I remember hypothesizing that the grocery store was owned by the government.

Sven Sven's picture

Maysie wrote:

I vote for Colonization Day.

That, actually, would be a pretty accurate term to use.

_______________________________________

Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!

Sven Sven's picture

Michelle wrote:

Well, M. Spector, Google is American.  I've noticed that Mounties are a generic and romantically benign "Canadian" symbol down there.

Yeah.  Mounties and Moose (or is the plural "Mooses" or even "Meese"?!?! Tongue out )

_______________________________________

Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Sven wrote:
Yeah.  Mounties and Moose (or is the plural "Mooses" or even "Meese"?!?! Tongue out )

Moose. As in, how many moose does it take to change a lightbulb? Three: one moose to hold the lightbulb, and two moose to turn the ladder.Laughing

WillC

Aristotleded24 wrote:

Wilf Day wrote:
the rebellions of 1837

I mention this because I want to point out how our cultural mythology as Canadians doesn't necessarily reflect reality. We get all self-righteous in believing we are a much more peace-loving country than the US. The truth is, Canada's history is just as violent and bloody as any other, from the deportation of the Acadians, the Plains of Abraham and the American Revolution, the 1837 rebellions, and the Red River uprisings of 1870 and 1885. To drift a bit, Michael Moore explained in Bowling For Columbine that American history is no more violent than that of any other country.

to try to tie the slight drift into the subject, another reason to be glad we live in Canada is that it has been historically less violent than the US. I know that national comparisons are usually doubtful, but, what the hell, for one day someone on Babble could abandon the sackcloth and ashes, and forget  their rage briefly.

the upper canadian part of the rebellion of 1837 consisted of one brief skirmish on Yonge St in which the pathetically poorly armed rebel force fled after a few shots were fired at them by the dirty Tories. this was followed by an attack on the rebels on Navy Island, and several minor incursions from the US by groups of people almost all of whom were  Americans.

like any group of human beings in the world we have had some violence,  but certainly we have never had any incidents whose violence was anywhere close to the amount of carnage in the American Civil War.

martin dufresne

Banjo, let me take a wild guess: you are not of Aboriginal descent.

Maysie Maysie's picture

Banko wrote:
 like any group of human beings in the world we have had some violence,  but certainly we have never had any incidents whose violence was anywhere close to the amount of carnage in the American Civil War.

The sad and scary thing is, I think Banjo actually believes this.

WillC

Maysie wrote:

Banko wrote:
 like any group of human beings in the world we have had some violence,  but certainly we have never had any incidents whose violence was anywhere close to the amount of carnage in the American Civil War.

The sad and scary thing is, I think Banjo actually believes this.

Not an honest way to prove your disagreement. Instead of pointing out any incidents we had equivilent to the American Civil War, which you cannot do, you call my beliefs "sad and scary."   

The destruction of aboriginals and their culture is surely an example of violence, but it is one which we share with the US, and most other countries of the Americas and Australia and New Zealand.

martin dufresne

Not an honest way to acknowledge that your point has been disproven.

WillC

martin dufresne wrote:

Not an honest way to acknowledge that your point has been disproven.

My point is that we have not had  period of violence like the American Civil War. Where was that disproven?

Maysie Maysie's picture

Banjo wrote:
 The destruction of aboriginals and their culture is surely an example of violence, but it is one which we share with the US, and most other countries of the Americas and Australia and New Zealand.

Sharing an atrocity doesn't make it any less an atrocity.

Legal lynching? What is the proportion of Aboriginal men who are imprisoned? What about the recent hand sanitizer bullshit? Land claims? 2010 Olympics in Vancouver? Legalized racism, hatred and genocide? Residential schools? The 60s scoop? Do you really need me to go on?

The Canadian way is to insist we are and have always been kinder and gentler than the US. First, that's a lie. Second, if it were true, being more kind and gentle than the current biggest murderer on the block is no endorsement of our so-called Canadian values. 

No, I can't conveniently "forget" this history on the day set aside to celebrate all that is "wonderful" about Canada. In fact, this day is a further reminder of whose voices are silenced and whose are privileged.

As of 12 minutes ago, Colonization and Genocide Commemoration Day is now over.

Edited to add: violence covers many different kinds of behaviours, and limiting it to body counts in officially declared wars is an example of how marginalized realities are prevented from telling their truths.

And on that cheerful note I'm off to sleep.

Unionist

torontoprofessor wrote:

When I was a kid, I was always confused about the relationship between "Dominion Day" and Dominion the grocery store.

It's mainly because of the meat.

 

WillC

Probably it should have been changed to Metro Day.  (Ontario residents only)

(to end this discussion on the appropriate note as it is in Babble banter.)

NDPP

M. Spector wrote:

[IMG]http://i44.tinypic.com/addj5j.jpg[/IMG]

 

WTF?

NDPP

Does Disney Corp still control advertising and promotional rights? Now there's a symbol for Canada

Sven Sven's picture

Maysie wrote:

No, I can't conveniently "forget" this history on the day set aside to celebrate all that is "wonderful" about Canada.

While Canada may not live up to Leftist ideals, Canada is a wonderful society in so many ways.  If Canada were truly a despicable hell-hole, people from all over the world wouldn't be immigrating to Canada in the massive numbers that they do (as a percentage of Canada's population, I think Canada has one of the highest, if not the highest, immigration rates in the world).  Are there bloody and shameful sins in Canada's past?  Of course.  Is Canada perfect, or even nearly so?  Of course not.  But, if there is a standard that demands that Canadians be ashamed of -- or loathe -- Canada, then there are probably few, if any, countries on earth that could live up to such an exacting and demanding standard.

_______________________________________

Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!

George Victor

Thanks Sven, but just so that Canada's birthday ends - fittingly, here -  on an American's reading of our condition, saving us from complete debasement,  please send something about July 4th festivities south of the 49th, a comparison of eagle and beaver for the residents of Mouseland.

Maysie Maysie's picture

Sven, Canada is a wonderful society. For some people. Canada has great educational opportunities. For some people. In Canada there are commercial and professional possibilities. For some people. There is universal health care. For some people.

Perhaps we are not unlike other countries, but I can't get on board to celebrate the vast inequities that exist.

And Canada needs its immigration rates for economic reasons. There's nothing idealistic or altrustic about it. 

Slumberjack

Canada took on the mantle of imperialism in 1867 from the British, and subsequently up to the present, acted in nearly every instance in lockstep with the mother country's manner of conducting itself.  From pushing through the railroad onto lands that didn't belong to it, the Northwest campaign, genocidal actions against the original inhabitants into the present day, involvement in activities that led to widespread starvation among the people of the north, the wholesale theft of resources, and a host of other brutal measures which are the hallmarks of imperialistic hegemony.  We haven't begun serious contemplation of the effects that these things have wrought, nor have any meaningful measures been taken to redress the grievous wrongs of the past and present, beyond the grudging payment of guiltless hush money in a couple of instances.  Against this backdrop, the fact that people can stand with their hands over their hearts while singing that ridiculous national anthem is an utter obscenity, which in itself demonstrates where we're at.  Canada's immigration policy remains racist to the core, disrupting and destroying many lives through its processes, which only confirms that nothing substantive has changed in 142 years.

George Victor

Book Lounge discussion of J.R.Saul's A Fair Country last Christmas applauded Saul's conclusions:

"Canada is in trouble because it has been untethered from its aboriginal moorings."
"The central inspiration of our country is aboriginal ...
How we imagine ourselves, how we govern, how we live together, how we treat one another when we are not being stupid is deeply aboriginal
----------------------------
The "we" of course is we Canadians (when our imagination isn't corrupted by reading the National Post or Macleans).
Post-modernists' ahistorical reasoning denies the existence of this inspiration or simply writes off its effect in current activities, which become non-substantive or token . Nunavut and its progress, for instance, toward the education standards that are required to produce a completely self-sustaining culture, is ignored.
Justice Thomas Berger, who stopped Exxon in its tracks in the Mackenzie Valley, and who recommended Nunavut's focus on education, demonstrates the centrality of Saul's reasoning.
(And how I hope this fourth attempt at bringing paragraphs back into this piece, works) But it didn't. Sorry.

Sven Sven's picture

Maysie wrote:

Sven, Canada is a wonderful society. For some people. Canada has great educational opportunities. For some people. In Canada there are commercial and professional possibilities. For some people. There is universal health care. For some people.

I cannot disagree with any of that, Maysie.

Perhaps the point where we might not agree is the magnitude of the word "some".  If "some" means, say, only 20%, then Canada wouldn't be nearly as nice of a place to live than if "some" means, say, 80%.  I don't know that there is any way to quantify "some" (and it would vary by type of issue) but, generally, I would define "some" (in this context) as being a significant majority of Canadians.

That means that I don't view Canada as perfect, or even nearly so.  But, that is a high (and unattainable) standard for mere human beings.  In other words, there will always be a "some".

I think the other relevant factor is: How does Canada's "some" compare to, say, America's "some" or China's "some" or Iran's "some"?  In other words, while all countries fall short of a standard of perfection, there are countries which are closer to that standard than others.  And, in my view, I would place Canada quite high on that list.

Maysie wrote:

I can't get on board to celebrate the vast inequities that exist.

I can't either.  And I think we would both agree that certain inequalities need to remain in focus as things society needs to address.

But, I also think that the relatively high standing of Canada as measured on the "Some"-Scale is something worth celebrating (or at least being thankful for -- given the conditions billions of others live in who are less fortunate).

Maysie wrote:

And Canada needs its immigration rates for economic reasons. There's nothing idealistic or altrustic about it. 

I don't think Canada's policy is altruistic.  The policies are clearly in the best interests of Canada (and Canada is not unusual in that regard).  But, the important fact remains that there are millions of people leaving (or desiring to leave) their countries of birth in order to live in Canada and become Canadian citizens -- and that is, again, in my opinion, due to Canada's relatively high "score" on the "Some"-Scale.

_______________________________________

Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!

Maysie Maysie's picture

The majority of highly skilled, trained and educated immigrants come to Canada and can't get work in their professional fields. They get more "points" for their education and job experience, etc, allowing them to immigrate, and once here, can't find professional-level work. Due to laws put in place by the Federal government many years ago.

What's the proportion/percentage of people living in poverty in Canada? What's the proportion/percentage of people living on reservations in Canada? The fact that immigrants (such as my dad and both my maternal great-grandparents) were able to come to Canada in the first place was due to genocide and atrocities that preceded them. That's a hell of a thing for me to think about, my privilege on the backs and blood of the Aboriginal people who once lived in Montreal where I was born, and Toronto where I now live.

If Canada is "better", and I don't think that point has been proven definitively, it doesn't change any of this. 

I don't think we're disagreeing, Sven. As a facilitator I call this "violent agreement". Smile

Sven Sven's picture

Maysie wrote:

I call this "violent agreement". Smile

It is, perhaps, a bit of an oxymoron but it made me laugh to read that, Maysie (wink)

_______________________________________

Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!

Michelle

Yeah, it's kind of ridiculous.  If immigrants' educational backgrounds and professional status are not going to be recognized here anyhow, then I don't see why we would have a point system at all.  It would be better to just have a lottery system, or first-come-first-admitted system (not including refugees, of course, who should not have to wait).

Isn't that closer to the way it is in the US, Sven?  You have more of a lottery or "wait in line" system than a points system, right?

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