People discussing why I left

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Sean in Ottawa
People discussing why I left

I just saw this discussion about my leaving now (Politics site in the thread should Mulcair go). It is true that I said to Art that while once the majority of people here were NDP supporters or those further left, now the majority of posts are from Liberals. A thread about the NDP might have 80% posts from self-declared Liberal/Trudeau fans not discussing so much as advocating their brand. This is not why I left but it made it easier. At the time I left, there were even some productive exchanges between myself and Pondering. Terry Towel and I seemed to be up and down but I never asked that he go.

It is absurd that someone would suggest that my not posting has anything to do with Mulcair. Leaving the NDP would not be a reason to leave babble and I left the NDP not just because of Mulcair’s leadership either:  I left because the NDP is on the same “middle class” vote-getting kick the Liberals are on while many people in this country are struggling with less. Rhetorically they write off anyone falling below the middle income range when their leader claims he was there BECAUSE of the “middle class.” I want a social justice party that does not place “middle class” voters above those of lower income just because they are more likely to vote. I will not support a classist party.

The reason I left babble came out of a situation with a troll. His posts were not just against babble policy, but the definition of what this place was -- they were: ageist, sexist, homophobic, challenging poster’s mental health, harassing people who were not engaging with him... The moderators allowed him to do this for weeks, defending him, ignoring the flagged posts and criticizing those who took issue (much of the board). Long-time posters who have been given temporary bans were punished for far less (including myself). This made a mockery of the anti-sexist, anti homophobic, progressive policies of this board since all through this the Mods NEVER reminded him of babble progressive policies until he finally irritated them (or someone they gave a crap about) and got banned for that. I wanted them to defend this place by at least reminding him and the community what the standards were. The only explanation is that the moderators’ standard is not babble policy but pissing off the moderators. A defense of the non-sexist, non-homophobic, nature of babble was the minimum and that is why I left. By the time they got around to banning the troll, weeks of his behaviour had been reported and ignored. It is not about the troll it is about the way it was handled.

I did not want to enable a so-called progressive site unwilling to defend the very policies that made it progressive.

I have never asked for any regular long-time poster to be banned. Moderators simply ignore messages from those they don't like while telling people to message them, falsely claiming they will deal with those messages. I have asked that the Mods not apply personal history and bias to exchanges. I have asked that the moderators, given that they use their power to silence people, defend the policies that can make this place what it wants to be. My leaving came down to their refusal to do so. Their bias shown even when it came to a defense of the progressive, non-sexist nature of this place was too much.

I would love a babble with the same rules for everybody without bias or history. If one person cannot do something neither should another. And most of all, a place that calls itself progressive should be exactly that. That means responding to any poster related to concerns about policy. It means defending in a positive way the progressive nature of the site and not waiting till a troll is no longer tolerable and then suddenly banning that person. It means leaving no reason for people to believe there is a double standard or personal biases interfering with fairness or application of the rules. Each post regardless of the person posting should be handled on its own merit applying the rules. Perhaps an improvement would be moderators who can’t see who is posting and judge the posts for themselves alone.

I don't need a debate about whether I was right to hold this opinion. I am not trying to change anything other than my participation in a place I do not see as good for me. When I left I did not start a thread about this -- it was covered already and the result was irreconcilable for me. You don’t have to like why I left as that is only up to me and I am not asking to come back. Maybe a few months from now I will feel differently. I don't now and I don't think I will. But please do not blame fellow posters. This was about my opinion about moderation policy of a so-called progressive site. Period.

 

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Of course you are entitled to your opinion but I would just remind you that babble has much less moderation than it once did. And a larger community. Both of those things made it a better place.

I remember when I first joined babble. Any stupid move, or claim that could not be substantiated, was whacked up side the head by the many, many lurkers. It was great, actually.

I would love for those days to come back.

 

quizzical

thanks Sean.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

I think the person you're referring to is gone and hasn't posted a thing in many weeks. Hopefully he was banned,rather than voluntarily split.

Monty,right?

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

alan smithee wrote:

I think the person you're referring to is gone and hasn't posted a thing in many weeks. Hopefully he was banned,rather than voluntarily split.

Monty,right?

Catchfire turfed him for good.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

It's a different place now.

Seldom is heard a discouraging word.

And the skies are not cloudy all day.

Unionist

kropotkin1951 wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

I think the person you're referring to is gone and hasn't posted a thing in many weeks. Hopefully he was banned,rather than voluntarily split.

Monty,right?

Catchfire turfed him for good.

Didn't notice. Good move!

 

lagatta

Yes, I was getting really sick of him. Of course a lot of us, even though we aren't trolls, need our fingers slapped from time to time if we get overheated in arguments, but that person was malevolent. He made many homophobic comments, and as others have said, ageist and sexist ones.

Sean, do what you want, though it would be nice to hear from you from time to time. I agree about the NDP "brand" and I just hate the "middle-class" stuff (never really defined). It is as if they can't come up with an alternative to "working-class" because people might think that only refers to industrial workers, stereotyped as white and male. And few in the NDP seem to be challenging this; even those who are much more progressive or represent ridings with a lot of poor people (many of whom do work, but wouldn't fit the "middle-class" stereotype).

Slumberjack

During the election I'd take a quick glance at the news article comment sections and witness what passed for conversation between political party fans.  By comparison, there were many times when the election threads on babble didn't seem so far removed from the other swamp in both tone, content, and icky sensations.  For reading relief I'd quickly turn to the Rabble front page, only to encounter other forms of misanthropy.  By no means were those the only examples of childishness on display, and so there came a point where I required a break as well.

Caissa

You deserve a whack up the side of the head, ikosmos.Wink

oldgoat

Why is this in babble banter?

 

Pondering

oldgoat wrote:

Why is this in babble banter?

Interesting question. Maybe it's the frequency of the "Why they/I/he/she" left and it's all the mods fault conversation? Your sins aren't really news anymore so maybe it is moving into the bantering stage. I know I laugh.

swallow

What forum should it be in? 

I had to block that unlamented poster from messaging me on one of his homophobic hobby horses. Still don't know how he got away with violations of rabble policy for so long. Ah well. 

Pondering

swallow wrote:

What forum should it be in? 

I had to block that unlamented poster from messaging me on one of his homophobic hobby horses. Still don't know how he got away with violations of rabble policy for so long. Ah well. 

I think it's because he was responding to personal attacks and put-downs.

Left Turn Left Turn's picture

swallow wrote:

What forum should it be in?

Rabble Reactions?

mark_alfred
allah

Sean:  No one gives shit if you have left or not nor why

lagatta

I do. So there. Proof that you aren't Allah, as God is omniscient. We already have a poster here named GOD but He/She hasn't shown up in a while.

GOD

Have I been invoked????

lagatta

Yes. Poster here calling self Allah, which is of course the Arabic name of GOD. (By the way, Arab Christians also pray to Allah). Is this one of those puzzles like how many angels can dance on a pin?

GOD

Not much of a puzzle really, we all know some people don't bother educating themselves on these finer points.  As far as the angels thing, funny story.  Somewhere between the Big Bang and the Synod of Whitby,  I was sitting around with a few of my alter egos over a bong, and well, you know where these conversations can lead.   Angels on the head of a pin? Really?  Dunno how it got out, but I can't believe it still gets talked about.

 

bagkitty bagkitty's picture

GOD... do you ignore all of medieval theology, of course the question of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin is important... are they made of quintessence, or are they spirit alone? Of course the answer is the same in both cases (all of them) 'cause even if they are made of quintessence, they are really, really tiny. The important question is, of course, what language do they speak?

GOD

No one ever asks "how big a pin?

...and to answer your question, they communicate telepathically.

 

............in Esperanto of course.

 

bagkitty bagkitty's picture

@GOD - you messing with time and space again? I thought Esperanto was a 19th century invention, not something that was around prior to the building of the Tower of Babel.

swallow

Esperanto? How Eurocentric of them.

But the real question isn't how many angels, it's how many names GOD has. 

Pondering

Dear God, as long as you are hanging out, I know we had an easy winter but I am still fed up. No April 1st snow storms please.