Swears.

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Catchfire Catchfire's picture
Swears.

Would You Please Fucking Stop?

Quote:
I keep reading books and seeing movies where nobody can fucking say anything except fuck, unless they say shit. I mean they don’t seem to have any adjective to describe fucking except fucking even when they’re fucking fucking. And shit is what they say when they’re fucked. When shit happens, they say shit, or oh shit, or oh shit we’re fucked. The imagination involved is staggering. I mean, literally.

 

There was one novel I read where the novelist didn’t only make all the fucking characters say fuck and shit all the time but she got into the fucking act herself for shit sake. So it was full of deeply moving shit like, “The sunset was just too fucking beautiful to fucking believe.”

 

I guess what’s happened is that what used to be a shockword has become a noise that’s supposed to intensify the emotion in what you’re saying. Or maybe it occurs just to bridge the gap between words, so that actual words become the shit that happens in between saying fucking?

 

Ripple

My five-year-old son said to our new neighbour last night: "Holy shit, those are nice shoes."  I was shocked.

Then we had a conversation sort of like what's written above - they are just words, but not very good or imaginative ones. You can come up with something better than that.

Timebandit Timebandit's picture

I let my kids swear.  I've spent some time, though, making sure they understand that swearing offends some people (like grandma) and that there are times and places that cussing should not be used (like in front of grandma).  We haven't had any issues, although there was a period of delight that did have to be damped down a bit.  I also don't have to worry about what comes out of my mouth, because I swear a lot.  It's been freeing.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

 

Catchfire quoting Ursula K. LeGuin ... wrote:
There was one novel I read where the novelist didn’t only make all the fucking characters say fuck and shit all the time but she got into the fucking act herself for shit sake. So it was full of deeply moving shit like, “The sunset was just too fucking beautiful to fucking believe.”

This shit really fucking pisses me off. I mean, "Fuck!" I mean, just because there are a few swear words, don't fucking think for a fucking second that a writer should get away with this fucking shit. For fuck's sake. It's not, "she got into the fucking act herself for shit sake," for fuck's sake, it's "she got into the fucking act herself for shit's sake" for shit's sake! Fuck! Can't fucking writers write anymore? It's "shit's sake" not fucking "shit sake" !! What the fuck is "shit sake" ? fucking moron! What the fuck is the world coming to? Get your shit together, writers! Don't fuck around! I'm not whistling fucking Dixie here! No fucking shit! Keep your shit wired tight at all times! Mother fuckers! i've just about had enought of this fucking shit, I tell you. If one more fucker forgets to fucking put the possessive on "shit's sake" I will fucking blow a gasket! Fuck! Am I making myself fucking clear?

No shit Sherlock! If I want any shit from fucking writers who forget to put the possessive on "shit's sake" I will fucking squeeze their fucking heads. I shit you not! etc.

 

Catchfire Catchfire's picture
ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Fuckin eh. I've been meaning to watch that series. Probably should start at the beginning.

6079_Smith_W
bagkitty bagkitty's picture

The fucking crime is that English has such a limited choice of curses and swear-words to pick from.

Caissa

Fuckin' Bloody Fuck, mate.

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

How James Joyce swears:

Quote:
the natural grammatical transition by inversion involving no alteration of sense of an aorist preterite proposition (parsed as masculine subject, monosyllabic onomatopoeic transitive verb with direct feminine object) from the active voice into its correlative aorist preterite proposition (parsed as feminine subject, auxiliary verb and quasimonosyllabic onomatopoeic past participle with complementary masculine agent) in the passive voice

Ulysses, "Ithaca"

Unclefred Unclefred's picture

Interesting how English swear words are about sex and French swear words are about the Church.   Do we English people have hostility around sex?  Maybe we're a little uptight and could benefit from non-violent love making.  What if the next time you hit your thumb with the hammer, try saying, "OH CHURCH! That hurts!" Wink

Of course I remember the day I was roofing and hit my thumb for the third time.  I screamed foul language at the top of my lungs, and my French friend told me I had combined the strongest features of both languages quite poetically.  The funny part is that it was a a place in the Eastern Townships called Mount Echo. Surprised  I still smile at the memory.

We could all lighten up a bit and stop worrying about word phobias.

Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture

Jesus fucking christ I hit my fucking finger.

Wink

Maysie Maysie's picture

Finally, my favourite word gets the thread it deserves.

My mom inadvertently taught me the best swear words, and swear word combinations, I've ever heard. I still use most of them, when appropriate.

 

allah

There is a downside to the proliferation of swearing: loss of shock value and meaning. Used sparingly cuss words can add to the flavour of your speach rather than like putting a tablespoon of salt on a potato.

Lachine Scot

For any fans of Jaroslav Hasek out there, apparently the humour of the prose in "The Good Soldier Svejk" suffered a lot in the translation from Czech to English, as the multitude of crude statements about bodily functions had to be reduced to the two or three "big swear words" in English. 

We really do have an impoverished culture in that respect! :/

MegB

allah wrote:

There is a downside to the proliferation of swearing: loss of shock value and meaning. Used sparingly cuss words can add to the flavour of your speach rather than like putting a tablespoon of salt on a potato.

Hey, I happen to like salt. Alot of salt.

allah

Rebecca:  No shit?

Unionist

I favour inpletives over expletives.

Is that underfuckin'stood!!!???

Fidel

I used to swear a lot when I worked in the bush.  None of the ravens, crows, moose or Pine Martens were impressed much. I've had beers with diamond drillers' on Saturday nights. The things that come out of their mouths after a few cases of beer on a Saturday night watching the hockey game would embarrass a sailor. 

MegB

allah wrote:

Rebecca:  No shit?

allah: I shit thee not.

Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture

I don't put either shit or salt on my potatoes.  

Maysie Maysie's picture

Unionist wrote:

Is that underfuckin'stood!!!???

Absofuckinlutely

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

Hey Fockers! Cool thread to say wassup. What's crackin these days? Oh, looks like a gaggle flew in. We must do our best to have "Love, hope and optimism." Did Jack even write that?

 

Love is better than anger. - Absolutely. Calling a spade a spade is not anger, just logical.

 

Hope is better than fear. - Who's scurred? I'm more hopeful than ever. That doesn't include rolling over to those that would tarnish Jack's legacy.

 

Optimism is better than despair. - As Maysie eloquently put it. Absofuckinlutely.

 

Sorry for thread drifting. Michelle wrote a great post last night about Jack and his illness. Also, seeing many of my allies in this thread I haven't seen in many others, inspired me to try and write something.

 

I'm pretty sure Jack would have wanted me to fucking keep on keepin on.

 

I'm trying to ignore all the trolls.

 

Love you all. We must teach these folks and not run them off. Make them our friends.

 

Hoping, no, Believing we are not fearful. Quebecois showed me that.

 

Optimistic that the democratic membership of the NDP will make the right choice. There is no sliver of room for despair in me. (I lie, Jack's success in the election, changed a lot for me in my thinking.)

 

And for those that feel the NDP is going too far centre, fear not. Everything starts somewhere. My 12 yr old niece's Mom had a very small NDP sign put on her lawn the other day.(unlikely riding) The next day, her neighbours had a huge PC sign put up. My niece came out the next day on her way to school and decided to take the sign up a big mound of soil they had brought in recently for the backyard to display it prominently. Rolling up her sleeves and getting dirty. It was all love, hope and optimism. She has no anger, fear or despair.

 

The kids are alright.

 

Optimistic

 

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

Oh and she blushes when she swears. Cool

Sven Sven's picture

Hey, Catchfire, check out the table included in this wiki entry (click on the table itself to expand it on your screen so you can see the date details).  Assuming it's accurate, the printed use of the word "fuck" was used much more commonly between about 1675 and 1800 than it is today.  Between about 1825 and 1950, it hardly appeared at all in print, with its use really starting to revive just after 1950.

I enjoy the word.  But, it's overuse has started to turn it into white noise.  It's not the least bit shocking to hear it.  In some sense, it's worse than white noise: Repeated use makes a person sound unimaginative...and perhaps a bit dense.  Overusing "fuck" is about as annoying as Valley Girls of the 1980s using "like" repeatedly.

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

That's a terrible graph to include from a research point of view. It's misleading. Google Books (the source of the graph) mistakes the long s for an f, so "suck" and even the odd "such" show up as "fuck."

Death, that hath fuck'd the honey of thy breath,
Hath had no power yet upon thy beauty.

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

Right Sven. And Valley Girls was just such a true stereotype too, wasn't it. DOH! C'mon dude, don't make it so easy. People using tropes of Valley Girls is much more dense to me if we must engage in disparaging others.

 

Do you get out much and socialize?

Sven Sven's picture

Catchfire wrote:

That's a terrible graph to include from a research point of view. It's misleading. Google Books (the source of the graph) mistakes the long s for an f, so "suck" and even the odd "such" show up as "fuck."

Death, that hath fuck'd the honey of thy breath,
Hath had no power yet upon thy beauty.

But, by that particular reasoning, the word should have shown up with high frequency in the 1500s (but, according to the graph, except for a blip in the last decade of that century, it was essentially absent).

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

This conversation is all too civilized for the thread topic, but my best guest is that most books at the beginning of the 16th century use a blackletter font, which google books correctly reads--while by the end of the century, most printed books shift to a Roman font, which use a long s Google can't distinguish.

Sven Sven's picture

Catchfire wrote:

This conversation is all too civilized for the thread topic...

Laughing

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

Hehe! Nice dodge Sven.  Money mouth

Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture

Catchfire wrote:

This conversation is all too civilized for the thread topic, 

Your fucking right it is too civil.  So stop being so prissy polite and fucking swear more.  But never ever tell another person to fuck off.  Interesting history according to Urban Legends.

Gxddbov 

Quote:

The word fuck did not originate as an acronym. It crept, fully formed, into the English language from Dutch or Low German around the 15th century (it's impossible to say precisely when because so little documentary evidence exists, probably due to the fact that the word was so taboo throughout its early history that people were afraid to write it down). The American Heritage Dictionary says its first known occurrence in English literature was in the satirical poem "Flen, Flyss" (c.1500), where it was not only disguised as a Latin word but encrypted — gxddbov — which has been deciphered as fuccant, pseudo-Latin for "they fuck."

 

 

Caissa

This thread is getting confuckinfusin

 

Caissa

I was composing the below when the Blatchfor thread got closed.

I despise Blatchford. That aside, I never thought I would live to see the day when a thread discussing the permissible uses of "bitch" would take place on Babble. Colour me gobsmacked.

Merowe

Yeah, I have to wade in here and say, regardless of the various associations or sticky attachments the term has picked up in the course of its venerable history, the language and the culture would be the poorer for the passing of 'bitch' derogatory.

For every incorrect use, there is the inspired door-opening of a new permutation and application. Earlier today listening to BBC Radio Four's 'Ed Reardon's Week' I heard a fabulous use, some sentence involving the term 'bitch-goddess' which identified with irreplaceable specificity a particular constellation of associations that was a comedic TREAT.

Just now on my facebook page a local friend has posted this. It's not to my taste but I defend her right to say such nonsense!

'I'M A BITCH!...Unfortunately most women won't repost this. I'm a handful, I'm strong willed, independent, outspoken and I tell it like it is. I make mistakes, I am sometimes out of control and at times hard to handle. But if you can't handle me at my worst then you sure as hell don't deserve me at my best. If you're a bitch repost this...I dare you. I'll be looking for the ladies who repost.
Remember...BITCH means Babe In Total Control of Herself!!'

Hasn't 'nigga' been repossessed?

Maysie Maysie's picture

Reclaiming oppressive language has nothing to do with using a word, a "swear" or otherwise, in its original intent: to insult and degrade.

Women who attempt to reclaim "bitch" and "slut" are irrelevant to this discussion, or to the one about Blatchford.

Fuckin' A, man.

Merowe

'Blatch' will never, as a vehicle, deliver the same aural EFFECT, sharp, punctuated even percussive as 'bitch'.

That is why 'bitch', along with cock, cunt, prick, damn, shit, fart, piss, fuck, has survived so long in the language. Its original fixed meaning along with its negation - and all the space between have long since established separate identities within the language commons and it continues to operate creatively, in the language, as a living word. It is not a pleasant word perhaps, but I'm not sure that matters. The host of associations it is presumed to conjure are not pleasant - but neither are they fixed.

MegB

I'm trying to think of a few instances where men have used "bitch" as anything other than a sexist, misogynist put-down.  None come to mind.  Not that I don't have my own appreciation of the word, it's just that it's so often the last word a woman hears before her husband/boyfriend breaks her jaw or throws her down the stairs.  It's also the "oh, you don't want to have casual sex with me? Haven't given me the sexual attention that, by being male, I am due?  You bitch." 

I like the word. I use the word.  And many feminists will disagree with me with solid grounds for doing so, and I completely respect that.  One thing I can say is that men have forfeited their use of the word on the basis of their long-standing misogynist use of the word.  Women - whether we reclaim it or rebuke it - are pretty much the only people who should be involved in deciding for themselves what the word means to them.

bagkitty bagkitty's picture

Rebecca West... got many gay friends?

MegB

Several - why?

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Rebecca West wrote:
I'm trying to think of a few instances where men have used "bitch" as anything other than a sexist, misogynist put-down.  None come to mind.

Let me help you. "Life's a bitch" is a common expression  used to characterize existence as difficult even at the best of times. It's used all the time by men and women alike. Sometimes " ... and then you die" is added for effect.

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

bagkitty, are you suggesting that "gay friends" who use the word bitch are using it without misogynist connotations? It's difficult to tell what you are insinuating.

6079_Smith_W

Maybe we should toss this one over to the transgressive art class 101 and see what they think. 

I know there are certain words I avoid using. As for some people not having the right to use certain words, there might be a moral argument there, but in terms of practical application it's meaningless. 

Most people are not going to pay attention to being told they are not allowed to do something, especially not those who use it in the worst way.

And on the other hand, I am sure there are some who think no one - including women - should use it. I have heard exactly that opinion about other highly-offensive words which are in common usage. So from the start there is no absolute position.

Use of the word may tell us something about the attitudes of the person using it, but clearly it doesn't always mean the same thing when it comes out of different peoples' mouths.  

Before I start educating people about the meaning of words I also need to educate myself what that word means to them - particularly when it is used in a context or culture I am not entirely familiar with. And that is true whether I have a case or not.

(that last sentence may sound highly facetious, but I assure you I don't mean it that way)

 

Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture

This fucking thread has been derailed.  I don't mean to go all "alpha dog" on other posters but start fucking swearing or open another fucking thead. 

Cool  Kiss

 

bagkitty bagkitty's picture

Rebecca West wrote:

Several -- why?

'Cause I am wondering how you reconcile making essentially blanket statements like:

Rebecca West wrote:

I'm trying to think of a few instances where men have used "bitch" as anything other than a sexist, misogynist put-down.  None come to mind. [...]

and

Rebecca West wrote:

One thing I can say is that men have forfeited their use of the word on the basis of their long-standing misogynist use of the word. 

although I do very much appreciate the qualification of that in the remainder of the paragraph [emphasis added]

Rebecca West wrote:

Women - whether we reclaim it or rebuke it - are pretty much the only people who should be involved in deciding for themselves what the word means to them.

I definitely don't want to overstate the case, but there are times in gay male discourse where it is not used a pejorative, but rather as a term of approbation. Perhaps NSFW NSFB[abble], and I wouldn't toss it into the mix casually -- but nor would I endorse the blanket condemnation of the word.

____________________

Catchfire wrote:

bagkitty, are you suggesting that "gay friends" who use the word bitch are using it without misogynist connotations? It's difficult to tell what you are insinuating.

What I am insinuating is that its misognynist connotations are not dominant in all instances. Too many, but not all.

 

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

I've heard the word used in a context you are describing, bagkitty, and I don't agree that it's stripped of its misogynist baggage in those instances, dominant or not.

That said, there have been a number of attempts by feminists to reclaim the word. I'm don't think the THH22M sketch represents one of those attempts, but it is a contested word.

I'd be open to a further discussion of this, but perhaps in another thread. Northern Shoveler is fucking right: this fucking thread is for fucking swearing.

6079_Smith_W

My only regret is not being able to find that clip of Tony Randall demonstrating how complete gibberish works just fine as ersatz profanity. Can't remember which talk show it was on, but if my childhood memory serves me, it was amazing. 

The internet is great, but it is not the sum of all knowledge.

Plus, think I paid my dues with that Sopranos clip, for fuck sakes.

 

 

Uncle John

There is a word which I think has to be rethought in terms of progressive social and cultural acceptance, especially in the context of politics.

South Park opened the floodgates for its political use.

And there really is no other word to describe those such as:

Rick Perry, Rick Santorum (whose name itself has been recently Savaged), Barak Obama, Stephen Harper, Tim Hudak, etc.

The word starts with a D and ends with a BAG.

Caissa

It's common Big Bang Theory as well, along with the blatch word.

Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture

Should we just accept Sheen as a fucking shining example of freedom of speech.  No fucking way is all I have say.  Our society is being inundated with nasty nasty images of how people should act towards each other.  Rude is the norm and if it is sexist or racist well that is just the way of the world isn't it?  

I love swear words especially when they are used in inappropriate situations to really make a point. You know when you are meeting with HR and the mealy mouthed young person is going into mini-lecture mode about things that are irrelevant to the employment relationship. My wife tells me great stories every week about her go arounds with the new breed of HR people who have been hired to harass workers and who doesn't even bother to read the collective agreement.  She also loves a shop stewart that every one knows affectionately as Nana since she looks like a small town west coast granny.  She loves to chew up fresh faced new managers and HR people and they are always astounded at the language that comes out of her mouth.  Very fucking effective in the right context.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

My favourite book this year: Go The FUCK To Sleep

Favourite page from the book:

The owls fly forth from the treetops.

Through the air, they soar and they sweep.

A hot crimson rage fills my heart, love.

For real, shut the fuck up and sleep.

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