8th Annual Israeli Apartheid Week, March 5-9, 2012

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M. Spector M. Spector's picture
8th Annual Israeli Apartheid Week, March 5-9, 2012
M. Spector M. Spector's picture

To accommodate various university schedules across regions, IAW will take place at slightly different times between February and March. Here is a list of dates for the regions confirmed so far:

Europe: February 20 - March 10
Palestine: March 12-19
United States: February 26 - March 3
Canada: March 5-9
Arab World: March 5-11
South Africa: March 5-11

 

[url=http://www.facebook.com/pages/Israeli-Apartheid-Week/129266200471771]Fac...

[url=http://www.facebook.com/pages/Israeli-Apartheid-Week-Toronto/46324309566... (Toronto)[/url]

[url=http://twitter.com/#!/apartheidweek]Twitter[/url]

 

Maysie Maysie's picture

Report from the London IAW, from February 20, 2012:

Israel student society attacks peaceful Palestinian protest with water bombs at LSE.

Quote:

A student street theatre put on by the Palestine Society at the London School of Economics was attacked by members of the Israel Society today.

Part of Israeli Apartheid Week, the peaceful mock checkpoint was attacked with water bombs, knocking down some of the set. LSE Palestine Society member Jen Izaakson said they shouted "Hamas" and "death to Israel" as they threw the water bombs.

With breathtaking hypocrisy, the Israel Society later put out a statement demanding a "full apology" and "dialogue", claiming the street theatre had been "provocative".

.....

In a statement, the Palestine Society said: "Students from LSESU Palestine Society re-enacted an Israeli checkpoint on Houghton Street, as the start of Israeli Apartheid Week. The re-enactment was to show the suffering Palestinians face on a daily basis, trying to live their lives. All students which took part, had pre-agreed to take part in the re-enactment and students who did not wish to be involved were not forced to take part. The re-enactment passed peacefully for two hours, with students responding incredibly positively to the action... We as a society call on management to continue to protect our right to peaceful protest on LSE's campus."

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

[url=http://globaljustice.nycga.net/2012/02/24/iaw2012/]IAW Online Resources list[/url]

Institute for Middle East Understanding [url=http://imeu.net/news/factsheets.shtml]fact sheets[/url] (over a dozen pages of titles listed).

Howard

From the trailer: Palestinian violence = resistance, Israeli violence = criminal

Sorry, but you lost me after that. How about all violence is violence and none of it is good.

Michelle

If a woman's husband beats her with a tire iron and she hits back with her fists, then I guess what we can conclude is that all violence is violence and none of it is good.

Right?

Howard

Michelle wrote:

If a woman's husband beats her with a tire iron and she hits back with her fists, then I guess what we can conclude is that all violence is violence and none of it is good.

Right?

Yes.

Michelle

Thanks.  That's all I needed to know.

Howard

Michelle wrote:

Thanks.  That's all I needed to know.

Would you define "peace" as the state where the woman wrestles the tire iron free from the man and beats him into submission?

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

ZOMG :(

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

Howard wrote:

Michelle wrote:

If a woman's husband beats her with a tire iron and she hits back with her fists, then I guess what we can conclude is that all violence is violence and none of it is good.

Right?

Yes.

So fucking mysoginstic. Flagged.

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

For those unaware, Howard's translation of the trailer leaves much to be desired for those interested in honestly discussing an issue. And the follow up seals the deal. That's how bullies operate.

Michelle

I wouldn't bother flagging his post, RevolutionPlease. 

Anyone who thinks that a woman fighting back with her fists against a guy beating her with a tire iron is engaging in equivalent violence clearly can't be taken seriously on a subject like this.

Anyone who thinks that Palestine is in an equally strong position as Israel, and who thinks that the force they use to resist is equivalent to the force Israel is using to oppress them, is someone you don't need to take seriously in a discussion about apartheid, colonialism and imperialism.

I was just establishing this so that those who care about this topic can move around such uninformed posts, and forward.

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

Michelle wrote:

I wouldn't bother flagging his post, RevolutionPlease. 

Anyone who thinks that a woman fighting back with her fists against a guy beating her with a tire iron is engaging in equivalent violence clearly can't be taken seriously on a subject like this.

Anyone who thinks that Palestine is in an equally strong position as Israel, and who thinks that the force they use to resist is equivalent to the force Israel is using to oppress them is someone you don't need to take seriously in a discussion about apartheid, colonialism and imperialism.

I was just establishing this so that those who care about this topic can move around such uninformed posts, and forward.

Ya, I guess.(already done though) Perhaps it's my anti-Mulcair agenda. ;)

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

Michelle wrote:

I wouldn't bother flagging his post, RevolutionPlease. 

Anyone who thinks that a woman fighting back with her fists against a guy beating her with a tire iron is engaging in equivalent violence clearly can't be taken seriously on a subject like this.

Anyone who thinks that Palestine is in an equally strong position as Israel, and who thinks that the force they use to resist is equivalent to the force Israel is using to oppress them, is someone you don't need to take seriously in a discussion about apartheid, colonialism and imperialism.

I was just establishing this so that those who care about this topic can move around such uninformed posts, and forward.

Sorry Michelle, I agreed at first, but I never would have learned anything if crap like this was let go. If they kick the shit out of us on here, why should they be allowed to shit on us anywhere else in our house. I say kick em to the curb. Alt-media doesn't need to lower our standards, we'll bring the MSM'ers to us.

Howard

Michelle wrote:

Anyone who thinks that a woman fighting back with her fists against a guy beating her with a tire iron is engaging in equivalent violence clearly can't be taken seriously on a subject like this.

I'm saying violence is wrong. I'm not saying one form of violence is equivalent to another. I don't believe in some concept of equivalent violence. I just think violence is wrong.

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

Howard wrote:

Michelle wrote:

Anyone who thinks that a woman fighting back with her fists against a guy beating her with a tire iron is engaging in equivalent violence clearly can't be taken seriously on a subject like this.

I'm saying violence is wrong. I'm not saying one form of violence is equivalent to another. I don't believe in some concept of equivalent violence. I just think violence is wrong.

The problem is you seem to be saying the woman should shut the fuck up and take it.

Think about it.

Would you fight back? Or let me kick your face in?

Howard

RevolutionPlease wrote:
 If they kick the shit out of us on here, why should they be allowed to shit on us anywhere else in our house. I say kick em to the curb. Alt-media doesn't need to lower our standards, we'll bring the MSM'ers to us.

What makes me so different from you? I am pro-Palestinian. I am here to participate in the discussion. I don't like violence. I don't think it is effective. I don't think equating different forms of violence makes sense either. That's it.

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

How did we get here. Oh, you whined about the trailer. What do you really disagree with? Perhaps, an honest discussion might help. I'll start.

Do you disagree that Palestineans are subjugated my a military force?

Howard

RevolutionPlease wrote:
Do you disagree that Palestineans are subjugated my a military force?

No. That is demonstrably true.

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

Howard wrote:

RevolutionPlease wrote:
 If they kick the shit out of us on here, why should they be allowed to shit on us anywhere else in our house. I say kick em to the curb. Alt-media doesn't need to lower our standards, we'll bring the MSM'ers to us.

What makes me so different from you? I am pro-Palestinian. I am here to participate in the discussion. I don't like violence. I don't think it is effective. I don't think equating different forms of violence makes sense either. That's it.

Yes, dismissing violence against women makes no sense. Nor does dismissing violence against an unarmed people. You are not pro-Palestinian, your sense of violence has no shame.

If you can't get why a woman would beat the fuck out of some creep with a tire iron I don't know what to say and have no idea idea why you would call it violence. Until you can get over that you're not going to get far.

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

Howard wrote:

RevolutionPlease wrote:
Do you disagree that Palestineans are subjugated my a military force?

No. That is demonstrably true.

Holy mulberry. How do you then compute violence=violence?

Trying to be honest now. Apologies for the hostility.

Howard

RevolutionPlease wrote:

The problem is you seem to be saying the woman should shut the fuck up and take it. Think about it. Would you fight back? Or let me kick your face in?

I think there are potentially lots of options for things to do and violence would not generally be the option I would choose.

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

I really apologize for the hostility but what the fuck else do you do when someone hits you in the face with a lethal weapon? What are these lots of options? I'm sure me and many women would LOVE to know.

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

Just had to DJ once. If you feel my eccentricity, just watch this closely for me.

It's an Eminem vid but it ain't what you think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSdKmX2BH7o&feature=relmfu

Howard

RevolutionPlease wrote:
I really apologize for the hostility but what the fuck else do you do when someone hits you in the face with a lethal weapon? What are these lots of options? I'm sure me and many women would LOVE to know.

One thing you can do is to get out of the way of the blow. Another thing you can do is run. Another thing you could do is call for help. 

There are many options and these are all techniques that Palestinian activists use.

Violence, or equating violence, as a philosophy or a tactic I think will fail. For one, in a contest of violence, Israel will always win because they are good at violence. They have the stronger military. Violence serves Israel's purpose. It is a contest Israel can always win.

Second, violence [in society] only causes people to hate eachother more. It is a upward spiral. In a upward spiral of hate or violence you cannot have peace, until both sides quit or one side is destroyed. Why would Israel ever quit, when they are guaranteed to win?

Palestinians have largely rejected violence for these and other reasons. It doesn't work.

Howard

A lot of Palestinians use the techniques of Gene Sharp. Martin Luther King, Jr also spoke and wrote a lot about the "self-defeating" nature of violence. Gandhi and Nelson Mandela had a lot to say about non-violence. Nelson Mandela supported it in a tactical sense but not a philosophical one. Mandela would also probably be willing to admit that a lot of the ANC's armed struggle was not very effective.

In the end, apartheid in South Africa did not end because of Umkhonto we Sizwe.

ETA: In fact, if I hadn't mentioned it, had you even heard of Umkhonto we Sizwe?

Howard

In conclusion, I disagree with the way the trailer tries to legitimise Palestinian violence and delegitimise Israeli violence. I don't find either legitimate, but I also consider it a diservice to the many Palestinians trying to resist peacefully. The trailer reinforces the image that Palestinians are just violent and Israel is responding.

Maysie Maysie's picture

Calling for non-violent resistance as a tactic is one thing. Calling for no violence ever, in the face of a state that has no problem using crushing, constant and ongoing violence (physical, psychological, colonial)? It brings to mind that if one has never been in such a situation (parallels to a man speaking to how an abused woman may fight back), then perhaps one's opinion is severely narrow.

What I do in circumstances in which I think "Hey why are those folks doing that, this thing that I would never do?" is stop, try to shut off the bias of my limited experience, and listen. With an open mind, and an open heart. I let the idea percolate that perhaps I don't actually know everything about every experience that's never happened to me.

Unionist

Maysie wrote:

Calling for non-violent resistance as a tactic is one thing.

Why are we engaging Howard in this conversation, as if "violence" is some abstract concept?

The question is not whether violence or non-violence is a good tactic or poor tactic or temporary tactic or immoral tactic...

The question is: WHO determines the tactics?

For Howard to preach violence, or non-violence, or targetted boycotts of inexpensive paperback books only, or whatever, to the Palestinian people is the true sign of someone who really has no stake or interest in their liberation. It is the hallmark of someone who reserves the right to decide whether to support their struggle or not, depending on what tactics they themselves select.

If Howard wants to start a conversation about whether the time has come to use violent means to resist and fight back against our oppressors here in Canada, good on him. Beyond that, preaching to oppressed peoples how to behave - under the flimsy guise of "well, I'm certainly not telling them what to do, but if I were a woman, I'd just call the police" - "if I were Palestinian, I'd take a year off and study the works of Gandhi" - that's what colonialism and imperialism are all about.

 

Mr.Tea

Michelle wrote:

If a woman's husband beats her with a tire iron and she hits back with her fists, then I guess what we can conclude is that all violence is violence and none of it is good.

Right?

What if the abused woman decides to blow up a bus full of innocent people. Or launch rockets into a school full of kids? In your analogy, does the abuse she suffered justify her actions?

NDPP

"Resistance in Palestine will continue until the final liberation of all the Palestinian lands." - Ahmed Yassin

 

Unionist

Mr.Tea wrote:

Michelle wrote:

If a woman's husband beats her with a tire iron and she hits back with her fists, then I guess what we can conclude is that all violence is violence and none of it is good.

Right?

What if the abused woman decides to blow up a bus full of innocent people. Or launch rockets into a school full of kids? In your analogy, does the abuse she suffered justify her actions?

As I said, any debate as to how other people should or should not resist oppression invites the most putrid and obscene spirit to waft into what is haltingly, gropingly trying to be an anti-imperialist discussion board.

 

NDPP

and especially when the state of resistance to oppression by Canadians is so pathetically minimal..

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Unionist wrote:

The question is: WHO determines the tactics?

If Howard wants to start a conversation about whether the time has come to use violent means to resist and fight back against our oppressors here in Canada, good on him.

What's the difference? As long as Howard is only a spectator and not a participant, what difference does it make what his nationality is?

Even if Howard told us he was a Palestinian pacifist living in Ramallah, I would not accord him the "right" to determine the tactics of the Palestinian resistance.

Any more than I would accord to a pacifist in BC the "right" to determine the tactics used at the G20 protests in Toronto.

Mr.Tea

NDPP wrote:

"Resistance in Palestine will continue until the final liberation of all the Palestinian lands." - Ahmed Yassin

 

And what do you (or Yassin) consider to be "all the Palestinian lands"? Do they include Tel Aviv, for example?

Unionist

M. Spector wrote:

What's the difference? As long as Howard is only a spectator and not a participant, what difference does it make what his nationality is?

I never mentioned nor intended nationality. I meant that the tactics of struggle are determined by those who are in struggle.

 

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Howard, stay out of this thread please, unless you care to post on topic. Which is, of course, IAW.

And Mr. Tea, enough with the baiting comments. You know better.

Maysie Maysie's picture

Yes, Unionist, thanks for the reminder.

MegB

This thread is not the place for simplistic perspectives that are divorced from reality (Howard) or outrageous analogies intended to provoke argument/hostility (Mr. Tea).  Let's try to have a productive discussion here, okay?

As Unionsit has pointed out, "the tactics of struggle are determined by those who are in the struggle."  The only ones really qualified to determine how to fight their oppressors are those being oppressed.  These concepts are at the core of anti-imperialist thought and belong with the stated values of babble.  For those of you who wish to continue to express the belief that you know what is best for others or how oppressed peoples should respond to their oppressors, I am advising you that to do so violates babble policy.

Mr.Tea

Rebecca West wrote:

This thread is not the place for simplistic perspectives that are divorced from reality (Howard) or outrageous analogies intended to provoke argument/hostility (Mr. Tea).  Let's try to have a productive discussion here, okay?

I would contend that Michelle was the one with the "outrageous analogy", as if Palestinian "resistance" (up to and including terror attacks against children) is akin to an abused woman defending herself from a violent husband. Or as if the attacks on Jews are a mere reaction to oppression or as if they hadn't been occuring long before Israel ever even became a state, let alone started occupying the West Bank (see the massacre of the Jewish population of Hebron in 1929; is that akin to defending oneself from abuse?)

MegB

Mr. Tea, I am not debating this with you.  Adhere to babble policy as stated above. Period. End of story.

Oh, and the "she did it first" defense?  Not worth the effort typing and even less worth the effort reading.

Ripple

Speaking of terror attacks against children ...

A child's view from Gaza

 

this exhibit - A child's view from Gaza - will be in Vancouver March 9-15.  See seriouslyfreespeech.ca for details.

Howard

M. Spector wrote:

Unionist wrote:

The question is: WHO determines the tactics?

If Howard wants to start a conversation about whether the time has come to use violent means to resist and fight back against our oppressors here in Canada, good on him.

What's the difference? As long as Howard is only a spectator and not a participant, what difference does it make what his nationality is?

Even if Howard told us he was a Palestinian pacifist living in Ramallah, I would not accord him the "right" to determine the tactics of the Palestinian resistance.

Any more than I would accord to a pacifist in BC the "right" to determine the tactics used at the G20 protests in Toronto.

I agree with you. I don't have the "right" to determine the tactics or even to "impose" my opinion as to what the tactics should be. I "may" however be allowed to offer my opinion that violence is abhorrent, and that the trailer's legitimisation of some violence and condemnation of other violence alienates me. I say this as an Israel Apartheid Week supporter. The facts on the ground suggest to me that Israel is indeed an apartheid state. I will heed Catchfire's advice and not post here further.

Maysie Maysie's picture

Quote:

MONTREAL:

* Israeli Apartheid Week | March 5-13th, 2012

8th annual Israeli Apartheid Week featuring inspiring conferences, workshops, film screenings, demonstrations, and cultural events to raise awareness around the Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions (BDS) campaign against Israeli apartheid.

* Monday, March 5
Film Screening with Cinema Politica: "Tears of Gaza"

7:00pm, Concordia University
1455 de Maisonneuve West
room H-110 (Guy-Concordia metro)

Disturbing, powerful and emotionally devastating, Tears of Gaza is less a conventional documentary than a record - presented with minimal gloss - of the 2008 to 2009 bombing of Gaza by the Israeli military. Photographed by several Palestinian cameramen both during and after the offensive, this powerful film by director Vibeke Løkkeberg focuses on the impact of the attacks on the civilian population.

--

* Tuesday, March 6
The Russell Tribunal on Palestine. How can a popular tribunal help the pro-Justice movement?

presentation by Speaker: Frank Barat
7:00pm, UQAM, 320 Sainte-Catherine East
Pavillon J.-A.-DeSève
room D SR340 (Berri-UQAM metro)

Frank Barat will give a brief historical overview of the work of the Russell Tribunal, including the Vietnam and South America tribunal of the 70s and will then focus on the Palestine tribunal with a strong emphasis on its last session, in Cape Town, that concluded that 'Israel policies against the Palestinian People were in breach of the prohibition against Apartheid in International Law'. Organized by la Coalition pour la justice en Palestine-UQAM (CJP UQAM).

--

* Wednesday, March 7
Women and Gender in Palestine: Reflections from an Anti-Apartheid Activist

presentation by Premilla Nadasen
via Solidarity for Palestinian Human Rights (SPHR)
179 Bronfman, 1001 Sherbrooke Street West
7:30pm, McGill University (McGill metro)

Premilla Nadasen was born in South Africa and although she moved to the United States at a young age, she returned periodically to visit family and saw first hand the discriminatory policies of the Apartheid regime. She received her Ph.D. at Columbia University and her B.A. at the University of Michigan and she currently holds a position as an associate professor of history at Queens College (City University of New York.) In June 2011, Nadasen participated in a delegation of indigenous and women of colour feminists, activists, academics, and artists who visited the Occupied Palestinian Territories. Upon their return the delegation strong endorsement of the Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions Campaign and issued a call to action aimed towards their academic and artist colleagues to follow their lead.

--

* Thursday, March 8
Workshop: Pinkwashing Israeli Apartheid 101

12:30 ? 2:00pm, UQAM, Pavillon Hubert-Aquin
400 Sainte-Catherine East, room A 1850 (Berri-UQAM metro)

This workshop and facilitated discussion will serve as an introduction to "pinkwashing," the propaganda campaign targeting Western queers designed to secure their support for the Israeli state. Pinkwashing works by painting Israel as a haven for gays amid an intolerant, backward Middle East. Gay rights in Israel, we are told, justify the brutal, ongoing oppression of Palestinians, via policies that constitute apartheid according to many international observers. As queers, should we just learn to live with the fact that our freedoms may come at the expense of others' subjugation and suffering, or can we look beyond our individualized identities to a larger solidarity between all those who struggle for justice and dignity? Workshop will be presented by Claire Hurtig, a member of Tadamon Montreal.

* Thursday, March 8
Demonstration: Solidarity with Palestinian Women!

BDS contingent in the International Women?s Day march
6:00pm, Norman Bethune square.
Outside of Metro Guy-Concordia, De Maisonneuve Boulevard and Guy

Join the contingent with Palestinian flags and the BDS banner. This is an opportunity to express support for Palestinian women fighting against Israeli occupation and apartheid while also joining an international day of action, International Women's Day, to support women's liberation struggles, all around the world. Bring your own flags, signs, and noisemakers! Click here for the full callout

--

* Friday, March 9
Film Screening with Cinema Politica: Budrus

6:00pm, Concordia University, Library Building
1400 de Maisonneuve West, De Sève Cinema
(Guy-Concordia metro)

Budrus is an award-winning feature documentary film about a Palestinian community organizer, Ayed Morrar, who unites local Fatah and Hamas members along with Israeli supporters in an unarmed movement to save his village of Budrus from destruction by Israel's Separation Barrier. Success eludes them until his 15-year-old daughter, Iltezam, launches a women's contingent that quickly moves to the front lines. Struggling side by side, father and daughter unleash an inspiring, yet little-known, movement in the Occupied Palestinian Territories that is still gaining ground today.

--

* Sunday, March 11
Concert: Artists Against Apartheid XVIII
featuring celebrated NYC hip-hop group Rebel Diaz, Haitian hip-hop artist Vox Sambou and Chilean musicians l'Ensemble Acalanto

O Patro Vys, 356 Mont Royal (Mont Royal metro)

Doors 8:00pm, show starts at 9:00pm
Tickets: $10 in advance and $12 at the door

--

* Monday, March 12 - 16
Israeli Apartheid Week exhibition

Concordia University, Library Building Atrium, 1400 de Maisonneuve West (Guy-Concordia metro)

An interactive exhibition via Solidarity for Palestinian Human Rights (SPHR) at Concordia University demonstrating the obstacles Israeli apartheid policies pose to ongoing Palestinian efforts for equal rights, justice and self-determination.

--

* Monday, March 12
The Syrian Uprisings and the Question of Resistance

presentation by Bassam Haddad
6:30pm, Concordia University
1455 de Maisonneuve West, H - 763
(Guy-Concordia metro)

In this presentation, Bassam will discuss the structural causes for the emergence of the Syrian uprising and the factors that explain the stalemate thus far. Special emphasis will be placed as well on critical questions of regional politics, particularly those related to the issue of resistance and the left. Bassam Haddad is Director of the Middle East Studies Program and teaches in the Department of Public and International Affairs at George Mason University, and is Visiting Professor at Georgetown University. He is the author of Business Networks in Syria: The Political Economy of Authoritarian Resilience (Stanford University Press, 2011). Bassam also serves on the Editorial Committee of Middle East Report and is Co-Founder/Editor of Jadaliyya Ezine. He is currently a Visiting Scholar at Stanford's Program for Good Governance and Political Reform in the Arab World. Lecture organized by Tadamon!

--

* Tuesday, March 13
Closing Panel: Systematic Violence Against Indigenous Women
featuring presentations by Mohawk activist Janie Jamieson-Cook and Palestinian activist Yafa Jarrar.

6:30pm, Concordia University
1455 de Maisonneuve West
room H-763 (Guy-Concordia metro)

Janie Jamieson-Cook and Yafa Jarrar will discuss systemic violence experienced by indigenous women in Canada, and the struggles faced by women in Palestine on a daily basis. This panel comes on the heels of the call for a UN inquiry into Canada's human rights abuses with regards to Indigenous women. This event is hosted by the 2110 Centre for Gender Advocacy at Concordia University.

Janie Jamieson-Cook of the Mohawk Nation Turtle Clan is from Six Nations, Grand River Country. She is a political activist and the married mother of three: Jewel, Cecil, and Warren, and has one brother, and five sisters herself. Janie is a third generation survivor of the residential school system, as her mother and both grandmothers were all full-time students at the mush hole in Brantford, Ontario. Yafa Jarrar is an organizer with Students Against Israeli Apartheid-Carleton University. She was born in Jerusalem/Palestine and moved to Canada in 2003. Yafa now lives in Ottawa."

Panel facilitated by Bianca Mugyenyi, a coordinator at the 2110 Centre for Gender Advocacy who participated in the World Education Forum in Occupied Palestine, Oct. 2010.

--

Israeli Apartheid Week Montreal 2012!

(Above is a preliminary event calendar. Full event details will be updated here

Follow us online!
* Facebook 
* Twitter 

* Accessibility
- All speaking events and workshops will have whisper translation from English to French/French to English
- Entry to the events is by donation (pay what you can) unless otherwise noted
- All events are wheelchair accessible unless otherwise noted
- Childcare is available for most events. Please email us 48 hours in advance at iaw-mtl(at)riseup.net

Israeli Apartheid Week is organized by the following groups: Solidarity for Palestinian Human Rights (McGill and Concordia), Quebec Public Interest Research Group (QPIRG McGill and Concordia), Tadamon, 2110 Centre, and the Coalition for Justice in Palestine- UQAM

Free free Palestine!

* Israeli Apartheid Week 2012 in Montreal
iaw-mtl(at)riseup.net
514-848-7583

 

M. Spector M. Spector's picture
Shel_TR

Wow! I got quite a kick out of reading the stream of comments.

I pity Howard. He's making comments. They're hardly very controversial (all violence is bad). He's not being violent. He's not even condonging violence. And he's certainly not using a tire-iron on a woman -- WTF, how completely non sequitur was THAT little deviation? And then Howard is threatened with being cut-off (talk about censorship!) simply for defending himself for an argument that he never even raised!

The very fact that this discussion was hijacked for that unrelated thread only reveals the posters' own pre-occupations. And the subsequent bullying, ganging-up and intimidation against Howard only further demonstrates weakness.

Howard, you displayed great restraint. Arguably, much more than was due...

Unionist

We usually welcome new babblers, but with a first post like that, I think I'll just say that we can do without you coming in here to shit on people and make ugly accusations and dime-store character analysis based on utter ignorance. Besides having zero to contribute to an important thread about an extremely important topic.

Maysie, thanks for the information.

 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

(self-delete-didn't intend to abet the thread drift).

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

M. Spector wrote:

Unionist wrote:

The question is: WHO determines the tactics?

If Howard wants to start a conversation about whether the time has come to use violent means to resist and fight back against our oppressors here in Canada, good on him.

What's the difference? As long as Howard is only a spectator and not a participant, what difference does it make what his nationality is?

Even if Howard told us he was a Palestinian pacifist living in Ramallah, I would not accord him the "right" to determine the tactics of the Palestinian resistance.

Any more than I would accord to a pacifist in BC the "right" to determine the tactics used at the G20 protests in Toronto.

Who SHOULD have the right to determine those tactics, then?  And by what means?

It sounds like you just said, in that last graph, that even members of whatever oppressed group is seeking liberation in any particular situation should have the right to question whether or not violence is most effective tactic, or to question tactics at all .  Is that a correct understanding of your position?

In a general sense, that sounds like you're conveying something like papal infallibility on anybody who uses violence...and that you're implying that those who use violence are inherently more committed to whatever cause they're using it in the name of than anyone who opposes the use of violence.

It also sounds like you're equating any advocacy of nonviolence with capitulation.

In your view, any any particular struggle, is ANYONE associated with that struggle EVER allowed to question the use of violence when some within the cause are using it?  Or even to question the degree of violence used?  WHy should the use of force be any less subject to debate than any other tactics?

And if those use violence to lead a liberation struggle to victory are accustomed to never ever being questioned, isn't that going to make it more and more likely that they won't tolerate any questioning of anything they do should those who used such tactics actually end up gaining power for themselves?  And doesn't THAT lead us down the same bullshit dictatorial blind alley that too many liberation struggles went down in the past(thus making the result of those struggles nothing remotely LIKE liberation)?

It's not as if violence automatically works and nothing else ever does, you know.  And it's not as if debate within a liberation movement over tactics is automatically threatening to that movement's success.

It's one thing to say that people outside a struggle shouldn't be able to question what the leadershp of that struggle does.  But surely, those WITHIN that struggle should have a say...especially since having a say DURING the struggle is the only way to create a non-repressive political culture for whatever emerges as a result of the struggle's victory.

 

Unionist

Ken Burch wrote:

It's one thing to say that people outside a struggle shouldn't be able to question what the leadershp of that struggle does.  But surely, those WITHIN that struggle should have a say...especially since having a say DURING the struggle is the only way to create a non-repressive political culture for whatever emerges as a result of the struggle's victory.

 

Yeah, well, Ken, duh, no kidding, that's exactly what Spector and I both said. Where did you get your wordy notion that anyone here espoused the sanctity of violence?? Howard, you, and I have no business counselling Palestinians as to how they should wage their struggle. Pretty elementary. Not what the tactics are - but who determines them.

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