CBC's Vote Compass

100 posts / 0 new
Last post
mmphosis
CBC's Vote Compass
David Young

What a load of B.S.

I answered every question with the NDP and Jack Layton as '10's, and Elizabeth May and the Greens as '0's, and this site claimed that my leanings were towards the Green Party.

Be warned anyone who takes it, this is blatantly trying to reduce NDP support!

 

bagkitty bagkitty's picture

I second that, totally skewed and screwed. I couldn't find any way to register my objection to it. Disinformation for sure.

oldgoat

I agree.  everyone in my family, dippers all, came out most closely associated with the Greens. and like Bagkitty said, there's no place on the site to comment.

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

I came out NDP, although according to the compass, I was further into the corner than them. Weird!

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Same here. I leaned towards BQ as much as possible, but ended up Green.

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture
laine lowe laine lowe's picture

Boom Boom wrote:

Same here. I leaned towards BQ as much as possible, but ended up Green.

I was thinking BQ when I took a stab at it and I came out as NDP.

I also thought some of the questions were pretty open-ended and really didn't address a strong, clear position.

 

Vansterdam Kid

I agree with the general sentiment that this survey is useless. For instance, why do they even ask the party and leadership questions, when the point of the test is to determine, based on your answers to the 'issues' questions, who you should vote for? As a joke, I re-calibrated my answers and pretended to be in favour of Quebec getting more power, essentially making it look like I was a separatist, and it still told me I should vote Green.

Out of curiosity I clicked on the party positioning links to see where they assigned each party and I have a few qualms about it.

With regards to the Conservatives they were positioned as somewhat agreeing with increasing Canada's military presence in the Arctic, and only wanting to spend somewhat more on the Military. Both of these positions seem somewhat untrue as they strongly agree with both.

As for their position on government spending, apparently they neither agree nor disagree with the assertion that "when there is an economic problem more government spending usually makes it worse." That's news to me! They only somewhat agree with the assertion that, "The federal budget deficit should be reduced even if it leads to less public services." Again an interesting though debatable claim. As for their position on whether or not "It should be easier to qualify for Employment Insurance" they neither agree nor disagree. I'd say they at least somewhat disagree!

They only somewhat agree with the assertion that young offenders should be sentenced as Adults, which seems surprising considering their emphasis on "law and order." They neither agree nor disagree on the, "If they so wish, terminally ill patients should be able to end their own lives with medical assistance" question. Again, this is news to me that they are so neutral on doctor assisted suicide!

On, "The Senate should be abolished" question they somewhat agree. This is incorrect, as Harper has clearly stated that he prefers reform, and though he used to threaten to abolish the Senate if the Senate refused reform, he's also flip-flopped on abolition as he's indicated that it would be too constitutionally difficult (IHO) to abolish the Senate. The Conservative position should at least be neither agree nor disagree, if not somewhat disagree.

As for taxes, I don't see why they're only rated as somewhat less on the question of "How much should wealthy people pay in taxes."

Fidel

No matter how many NDP positions I voted for and gave highest marks to Layton on every question possible and zero for all other party leaders, the very Orwellian CBC election rigging tool sloughed me off on the Green Party. Bay Street must really want a phony majority this time around. lol

Sineed

Ditto.  Also green.

Tirumithir

I too came out Green, but I took the time to look at the question-by-question analysis.  The methodology is very simple:  match your positions up with the stated official positions of each of the parties.  There's nothing sinister or "Orwellian" involved... it's just that the NDP's officially stated positions are somewhat more centrist than those of most Rabblers.

The only grounds for complaint would be if a party's positions were misrepresented, which doesn't seem to be the case.  JKR provided links to all the party's positions at http://rabble.ca/comment/1233271/Concerning-Compas, so you can check for yourself.

janfromthebruce

Actually I went through the list of what is suggested is the NDP position - says who? Sorry about some of those positions are not the official policy of the NDP, so who ever decided those were the NDP position is wrong.

JKR

What is Vote Compass? - FAQ

Quote:

Who created Vote Compass?

Vote Compass is an academic project developed by a team of Canadian political scientists, including an advisory panel comprised of the country’s most prominent scholars in the study of electoral politics. 

Vote Compass is modelled after a similar online application available in Europe, called Kieskompas.  Kieskompas founder and director, Professor André Krouwel of the Free University Amsterdam, acted as consultant and quality control monitor to the Vote Compass project.

...

What is the relationship between Vote Compass and CBC?

CBC News is the Vote Compass media sponsor for the 2011 Canadian federal election.  CBC News provides support and promotion for Vote Compass and, in return, receives exclusive access to real-time analysis from the academic team.  Vote Compass remains an independent entity and operates at arm’s length from CBC News.  CBC News has no control over the content of the application.



Compas likely has no hidden agenda but they are misrepresenting the NDP's ideology, but not by very much.

The problem seems to be that the NDP and Greens share similar positions on many issues and this skews these kinds of simplistic surveys.

This is also why the Greens cost the NDP a lot of votes and why the Green supporters second choice is usually the NDP.

This questionnaire highlights the idiocy of FPTP that penalizes parties that are not miles away from other parties on the political spectrum.

 

Michelle

Actually, the problem is that the questions are very poorly designed.  Some of them break the most basic rules of questionnaire-making, and put this survey into the realm of push-polling. I've been fuming about this questionnaire since completing it last night.  I actually got NDP as my result, but the Green Party was almost even, and a bunch of my NDP-supporting Facebook friends were pegged as "Green Party".

They have compound questions in the survey - that is, questions with more than one question in them, but that you have to answer with only one answer.

Example: "The government should fund daycare instead of giving money directly to parents."  That's actually two statements, not one, and should be separate questions: "The government should fund daycare" and "The government should not give money directly to parents."  Because if you believe the government should fund daycare AND give money directly to parents, there is no way to answer this question.  And if you believe the government should not fund daycare AND they should not give money directly to parents, there is also no way to answer it.

And that makes it a trick question.  Because anyone who votes NDP will answer this question "Strongly agree" or "Somewhat agree" since we all agree that the Conservatives giving a hundred bucks a month to parents was no fit replacement for universal day care.  But they have placed the NDP into the "neither agree nor disagree" choice because the NDP supports both universal daycare AND giving money directly to parents.  But if forced to make a choice, you can bet that the NDP would support universal day care over $100 per month payments to parents, which they roundly criticized at the time.  This question makes it seem like the NDP has no position on daycare at all.

It's a scam question.  Only the Green Party position (fund daycare INSTEAD of payments to parents) or the Conservative Party position (Give payments directly to parents instead of funding daycare) can be reflected in the answer to the question.  The likert scale they use doesn't adequately represent the position of the NDP or Bloc on this question.

Another question that's like this is this one: "Environmental regulation should be stricter, even if it leads to consumers having to pay higher prices."  This is another compound question because it assumes that the effect of stronger environmental regulations is that consumers will have to pay higher prices.  This is mirroring the Green Party's position of using market solutions to environmental problems.

So, again, the only answers that you can agree or disagree with are the Green Party's (increase environmental regulation and increase prices), or the Conservative Party's (do not increase environmental regulation so that prices will not increase).

Whereas NDP supporters are likely to support strict environmental regulation, but do not necessarily think that increased prices always have to follow.  I, for instance, support strict environmental regulation, and also support cost controls on basic levels of consumption of necessities, and increased funding for social programs and subsidies for people who cannot afford the necessities.

So anyone who votes NDP either has to put "somewhat agree" or "strongly agree" with this statement to reflect their support for increased environmental regulations, but then they get counted as a Green Party supporter because this survey doesn't give the NDP credit for their support for increased regulation.  This is due to the question being a compound question that also assumes that all people should have to pay higher prices for everything as a result of increased environmental regulations, something the NDP does not support.

Not to mention that they soft-pedaled the positions of the Conservative Party on many of the questions too, as outlined by Vansterdam Kid above.  I think it's a travesty that this survey is being touted by the CBC as a guide for people to help them figure out who to vote for.  It is an extremely poorly-designed survey that skews the results for progressives in favour of the Green Party.  And call me a conspiracy theorist, but I don't think that's an accident.  I doubt that highly-trained research academics somehow don't understand the most basic rules of creating unbiased survey questions!

Caissa

I got closest to NDP, furthest from Conservatives.

MegB

I'm apparently closest to NDP.  And, gee, there are so many scienticians involved it must be true. 

I don't think there's any conspiracy afoot here, but this survey is about as close to being a compass as my middle finger.  Kudos to the CBC for sponsoring something so obviously flawed and misleading .

leftgreen

The NDP's "Cap and trade" scheme is the ULTIMATE market solution.  The Sierra Club of Canada rated their environmental platform third place behind the Liberals and the Greens.  Even David Suzuki criticized the NDP platform for not including some sort of carbon pricing scheme.

 

I actually wish Dippers and Greens could form closer relationships and work together.  Why does it have to be this constant fighting between each other.  A sort of Red-Green alliance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA6FSy6EKrM (The Story of Cap and Trade)

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

CBC is really pushing this BS - said 200,000 had tried it as of last night, and it has been on every CBC newscast I've seen in the past 36 hours.

Sean in Ottawa

The thing is garbage.

I wonder if legal action could be taken.

I looked at the questions and in fact there is more territory for the Greens and Cons than other parties-- (because they are placed on the outside more answers lead to them.

One interesting question is the party funding question which is a lie-- the Cons are not opposed to funding political parties-- they only want to remove the direct funding -- they want to keep the subsidy for donors on your tax form -- one of many BS questions.

As well by framing the issues to the Cons the questionnaire avoids most of the opposition priorities. Left wingers end up Green but centre to right are pushed to the Cons.

Should ask if a lying PM who does not believe in democracy is a good thing with strongly agree for the Cons undecided for the Liberals would be a start-- but there are many social justice and economic issues left out.

As well the questions rely on knowledge-- asking more or less than now type questions rely on people having accurate ideas about what the current situation is.

Snert Snert's picture

I wonder if this was actually meant to be rolled out on Friday morning?

Dodger718

I got the Green Party as did most of my Facebook friends who took it, it seems. Now, I may vote Green Party but the questions seemed really poorly written.

I also would have preferred that they take away any questions on party or leader and just base the results on your positions on the issue. Seems a more interesting take that way.

janfromthebruce

Hopefully you wrote this to the ombudsman for CBC. The link is above Michelle! They need to hear this and request that your email be sent directly to the researchers.

 

I agreed to be phoned by the researchers and I most definitely will be giving them an ear full Yell

 

Michelle wrote:

Actually, the problem is that the questions are very poorly designed.  Some of them break the most basic rules of questionnaire-making, and put this survey into the realm of push-polling. I've been fuming about this questionnaire since completing it last night.  I actually got NDP as my result, but the Green Party was almost even, and a bunch of my NDP-supporting Facebook friends were pegged as "Green Party".

They have compound questions in the survey - that is, questions with more than one question in them, but that you have to answer with only one answer.

Example: "The government should fund daycare instead of giving money directly to parents."  That's actually two statements, not one, and should be separate questions: "The government should fund daycare" and "The government should not give money directly to parents."  Because if you believe the government should fund daycare AND give money directly to parents, there is no way to answer this question.  And if you believe the government should not fund daycare AND they should not give money directly to parents, there is also no way to answer it.

And that makes it a trick question.  Because anyone who votes NDP will answer this question "Strongly agree" or "Somewhat agree" since we all agree that the Conservatives giving a hundred bucks a month to parents was no fit replacement for universal day care.  But they have placed the NDP into the "neither agree nor disagree" choice because the NDP supports both universal daycare AND giving money directly to parents.  But if forced to make a choice, you can bet that the NDP would support universal day care over $100 per month payments to parents, which they roundly criticized at the time.  This question makes it seem like the NDP has no position on daycare at all.

It's a scam question.  Only the Green Party position (fund daycare INSTEAD of payments to parents) or the Conservative Party position (Give payments directly to parents instead of funding daycare) can be reflected in the answer to the question.  The likert scale they use doesn't adequately represent the position of the NDP or Bloc on this question.

Another question that's like this is this one: "Environmental regulation should be stricter, even if it leads to consumers having to pay higher prices."  This is another compound question because it assumes that the effect of stronger environmental regulations is that consumers will have to pay higher prices.  This is mirroring the Green Party's position of using market solutions to environmental problems.

So, again, the only answers that you can agree or disagree with are the Green Party's (increase environmental regulation and increase prices), or the Conservative Party's (do not increase environmental regulation so that prices will not increase).

Whereas NDP supporters are likely to support strict environmental regulation, but do not necessarily think that increased prices always have to follow.  I, for instance, support strict environmental regulation, and also support cost controls on basic levels of consumption of necessities, and increased funding for social programs and subsidies for people who cannot afford the necessities.

So anyone who votes NDP either has to put "somewhat agree" or "strongly agree" with this statement to reflect their support for increased environmental regulations, but then they get counted as a Green Party supporter because this survey doesn't give the NDP credit for their support for increased regulation.  This is due to the question being a compound question that also assumes that all people should have to pay higher prices for everything as a result of increased environmental regulations, something the NDP does not support.

Not to mention that they soft-pedaled the positions of the Conservative Party on many of the questions too, as outlined by Vansterdam Kid above.  I think it's a travesty that this survey is being touted by the CBC as a guide for people to help them figure out who to vote for.  It is an extremely poorly-designed survey that skews the results for progressives in favour of the Green Party.  And call me a conspiracy theorist, but I don't think that's an accident.  I doubt that highly-trained research academics somehow don't understand the most basic rules of creating unbiased survey questions!

______________________________________________________________________________________ Our kids live together and play together in their communities, let's have them learn together too!

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Great post and analysis, Michelle!

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

I just got off the phone with CBC "listner relations". A woman told me they "were aware there were issues with the website and were working on it". I told her I am a life long New Dem and the compass said I should vote Green. I'll check in a couple of days if thing don't change. Hope this helps.

Arthur Cramer, Winnipeg

PS. Please call the CBC to lodge a complaint.

laine lowe laine lowe's picture

Excellent work, Michelle.

I think it's shameful that they would advertise this survey on every single newscast. It's not news and it's eating up valuable airtime.

MaryGP

I agree - it was right at putting Conservative furthest away but I was identified with Green Party - I would think I would have been NDP or Liberal ... not Green for sure.

Someone tweeted yesterday that if you answer no opinion/don't know to all questions you turn out Liberal ...

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

MaryGP wrote:
Someone tweeted yesterday that if you answer no opinion/don't know to all questions you turn out Liberal ...

Ha! That's hilarious, Mary. Welcome to babble!

This thread has been getting a lot of play from rabble.ca's facebook and twitter readers, I notice. I think it's the only sustained criticism on the web right now. Another babble scoop!

ETA: What Mary said is true! I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Life, the unive...

MaryGP wrote:

Someone tweeted yesterday that if you answer no opinion/don't know to all questions you turn out Liberal ...

Funniest thing I've read/heard all day.

Life, the unive...

acramer wrote:

I just got off the phone with CBC "listner relations". A woman told me they "were aware there were issues with the website and were working on it". I told her I am a life long New Dem and the compass said I should vote Green. I'll check in a couple of days if thing don't change. Hope this helps.

Arthur Cramer, Winnipeg

PS. Please call the CBC to lodge a complaint.

Uhhmm if they know there are problems - where's the disclaimer?  Lodged a complaint.

janfromthebruce

Mary Hilarious -

thorin_bane

I think I mentioned this in the election prediction thread. They DONT have the correct positions on the parties. I seem to remember the NDP mentioning euthanasia in the past but aparently only the greens are in favour at all. Which I have never seen them articulate.

 I was a green, or sometime bloc voter. And how the greens were further left than the NDP I have no idea. Green tories does not equal socialist.

JKR

The Compas questionnaire seems very similar to the libertarian's World's Smallest Political Quiz.

JKR

Life, the universe, everything wrote:

Uhhmm if they know there are problems - where's the disclaimer?  Lodged a complaint.

Disclaimer

Quote:

Disclaimer

Vote Compass is intended to provide users with accessible information about party positions.  Vote Compass does not provide voting advice.  It is not comprehensive in that it does not address every issue that is contested by the political parties during an election campaign.  Its purpose is to generate interest in and discussion of the election and Canadian politics more generally.  Every eligible voter can decide for themselves which party they feel best represents their interests and values.
 
Party positions were determined by a team of researchers from the University of Toronto Department of Political Science, who were overseen by an advisory board comprised of leading Canadian scholars in the area of electoral politics.  Vote Compass has made every effort to ensure the accuracy of its calibrations of party positions.  However, calibrations were determined by scientific analysis and may not in all cases reflect party’s public self-assessment of its position.  The academic team imputes party positions based on publicly available party documents, samples of which are made available within Vote Compass.  Each party featured in Vote Compass was offered multiple opportunities to provide a self-assessment of its positions on each of the statements in the Vote Compass questionnaire, as well as an opportunity to challenge the assessment of the Vote Compass research team.  In cases where discrepancies arose between the academic team’s findings and a party’s self-assessment, the advisory board offered a final ruling.

 

JKR

Is this true?

Quote:

Each party featured in Vote Compass was offered multiple opportunities to provide a self-assessment of its positions on each of the statements in the Vote Compass questionnaire, as well as an opportunity to challenge the assessment of the Vote Compass research team.

Was the NDP "offered multiple opportunities to provide a self-assessment of its positions on each of the statements in the Vote Compass questionnaire, as well as an opportunity to challenge the assessment of the Vote Compass research team."?

JKR

The quiz puts the NDP to the left of the Greens.

The questionnaire has two variables:

1 - economic position (left or right)

2 - personal/social position (conservative or liberal)

The NDP is placed placed on the left side of the economic axis and on the top side of the social axis. If you score high with these two variables, you are considered NDP. If your answers are socially liberal and economically leftist, the questionnaire considers you NDP.

The Greens are also placed toward the left side of the economic axis but they are much closer to the centre of the social axis than the NDP is.

The reason people here are being considered Green and not NDP is that they score toward the centre of the social conservative/liberal paradigm where the Greens have been placed.

If you want to be considered NDP by the Compas questionnaire, switch your answers on the personal/social questions. If you take less conservative positions on social issues and more liberal ones, you'll be considered NDP.

I switched my answers to make them more socially conservative and suddently I became a Green too.

Just to make sure I switched them back to my honest answers and the Compas questionnaire put me back firmly into the top left quadrant where they situate the NDP.

thorin_bane

JKR I don't think you could have been more socially liberal than what I put and when it showed the map the NDP was to the right of both the Bloc and the Green. Green was as far left as you could get then the bloc hiher and further right, followed by the NDP still higher and further right. Hell they had the libs about halfway on the left and the cons almost falling off the right. Seems odd doesn't it. Unless they have changed it in the last 3 days.

rkat

 

I found this compass fairly accurate actualy.. i knew i leaned somewhere between Green and NDP and thats what my results came out as.. one thing i did noticed you realy have to take your time with the 30 questions my first result came back conservitive and i know thats not right lol so i looked back and noticed i missunderstood some questions at first and answered wrong(wrong for me).

i also noticed a missunderstanding with how the compass works in a few posts up there.

your position on the spectrum is decided by the 30 questions.. how you rated each party and leader has no affect on your placement on the spectrum. you can see your best picks for prime minister by clicking on the tab witch is based on how you rated the partys and learders.

JKR

Looking at this from the viewpoint of the people who made this "voting compas", it does seem like it would be pretty difficult to make a multi-party questionnaire that distinguishes the NDP from the Greens. The only major differece between the Greens and the NDP seems to be that the Greens have more faith in the free market to reduce environmental problems. In practice this means that the Greens support a carbon tax while the NDP supports cap and trade. However, the questionnaire did account for the difference between cap and trade and the carbon tax.

What other differences do the parties have?

- Increase income taxes on the rich (NDP for, Greens against)

- Senate abolition  (NDP for, Greens against)

- Increasing public pension contributions (NDP for, Greens against)

But the questionnaire also seemed to have taken these differences into account too.

The problem with the questionnaire seems to have been the presence of too many questions in areas where there is little or no difference between the NDP and Greens. But these questions had to be asked because parties other then the NDP and Greens were part of the questionnaire. If the questionnaire would have only had to differentiate between the Greens and NDP, it would have been very easy to create a questionaire that asked a few simple questions. But because the questionnaire included other parties, there had to be too many questions where the differences between the NDP and Greens is negligible.  It may be this tool is inherently defective within a 5-party system where two parties are more similar to each other then the other parties.

Is there a way that this "compas" could have clearly distinguished between the Greens and NDP while still having many questions where the parties share the same similar answers? (Another problem is that many political questions are not cut and dried).

One way the makers of the questionnaire could have solved this problem was to just eliminate the Greens from the questionnaire on the grounds that they are a fringe party that has no seats in Parliament. Our FPTP system can't fairly deal with many parties, so maybe its fitting that this compas can't also?

A lot of Green supporters must have been designated as NDP'ers. But many Greens must like this confusion as they must know that since there are more NDP supporters then Green supporters, the questionnaire designates many more NDP'ers as Greens then vice a versa.

thorin_bane

Yeah but they got some questions completely wrong. For one they said the NDP doesn't support national childcare one way or the other...Um yes they do. How does the one party that put forward and pushed for it somehow not care about it? Its a bullshit compass that is akin to push polling.

 

"Hmm maybe I should be voting green or bloc." Split the votes some more and more cons squeal up the middle.

JKR

thorin_bane wrote:

Yeah but they got some questions completely wrong. For one they said the NDP doesn't support national childcare one way or the other...Um yes they do.

And they had the Greens supporting national childcare. So all things being equal, this question put a lot of NDP'ers into the Green category.

But since both parties approve national daycare, this is also an example of how this type of simplistic questionnare will likely always put lot of NDP'ers in the Green category and vice a versa.

I think the problem isn't with this specific questionnaire. I think the problem is that these simplistic questionnaires are inherently flawed. A simple questionnaire can't fulfill the goal of distinguishing the many parties from each other when some parties share a lot od policies with each other and one party is an outlier.

The media should avoid these kinds of simplistic questionnaires that may help their ratings but confuse the voters. It's unethical to have these kinds of confusing electoral "compases" during an election.

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

[url=http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/CanadaVotes/2011/03/29/17798811.html]CBC's voter quiz tool flawed, prof says[/url]

 

Quote:

Professor Kathy Brock completed the survey three times, she said, using three distinct response strategies, and was aligned each time with the Liberal party.

"I think there is a flaw in the mechanism" that causes the survey to default to Liberal, she said.

"If you're giving the opposite response and getting the same result, that's not correct," she said.

Pogo Pogo's picture

If I was to make a survey I would not just have the parties stance on the issues but also their relative importance.  I think this would be truly useful even to party members.  Even if you asked a simple question like:  If you had one bill to bring to the house would it be on poverty, international affairs, the environment, or the economy?

Anonymouse

It's garbage, it said I was bang on Liberal. Any guesses as to which party I most dislike? It also says a lot of NDPers are Green because of the question about the carbon tax- which the NDP opposes.

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

As a software developer, I see this fiasco as a result of totally inadequate testing before releasing this monstrosity on the Canadian public. Apparently, the CBC simply retained some so-called experts to make the questionnaire, and assumed that since they are EXPERTS, what they did must work. They should have at least tested it out on a few hundred people before putting it on their web site, and they would have discovered that their experts had utterly failed to make an accurate test. But instead, they just plopped it out there, and are now promoting the hell out of this worse than useless piece of trash.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

It's at well over 600,000 users so far. I wonder how many have changed their minds because of this piece of crap?  I think someone who can afford to do so - should go to court and have this thing blocked.

Life, the unive...

How many are those are multiple times the same person going WTF??? though.   I would guess a fair number.   Maybe it's only really been about 500 of us- thinking no that can't be right.Wink

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

LaughingLaughingLaughingLaughing

 

I've done it twice.

Life, the unive...

By the way I just took the thing again.   The more I read the questions the less clear they are.   When I try to re-calculate the important -not important stuff is so simplistic it is laughable.   Really the economy is not important or important?  Really?  The question is not whether it is important or not but who benefits.   And what does moral values mean? I think lying and cheating violate moral values.   But if I say they are unimportant does that make me more or less Conservative.   It is a piece of junk.

melovesproles

I don't know why everyone is so shocked, the Greens have consciously tacked to the left of the NDP on several issues while the NDP has increasingly tried to 'centerize' and poach soft-Lib votes.  It comes across in an issue by issue analysis that on a lot of issues the parties platforms are tailored to the voters they want rather than the voters they have.

thorin_bane

LOL the greens are to left of my left foot. There is almost no issue that they don't think a volountariy business solution is the exact prescription. By that very definition it is right wing policies.

Pages

Topic locked