Gun Registry Part 5

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KenS

Cueball wrote:

Not much of a rebuttal to this post , I see. [NoYards post#88.]

Rebutt what?
No Yards wrote:
I go and exhaustively pick apart the pieces of NoYards argument. He ignores either all or most of that, and comes back with a new ridiculing misrepresentation of what I or someone else said. Why should I rebutt that?
But I'm a sucker too often. So, referring to that post:
Look down on us "Layton haters" all you want, but if I recall correctly your "grand strategy" was to simply accept that the 12 MPs were going to vote with the Cons; Jack was going to publicly say he supported the registry and vote against the bill; The registry would die; and everybody would walk away happy ... now, instead, because of people like me, the rest of the "Layton haters", and progressive group after progressive group, writing letters to the NDP MPs letting them know we were outraged at their lack of support for the registry and there WAS a price to pay in urban centres if they let the registry die, the NDP has a good chance of coming out of this looking pretty damn good. Yeah, I wanted Jack to whip the vote, as did many other "Layton haters", and the effect of those demands was to put the 12 MPs that were going to vote with the Cons on notice that there was more to lose than they originally though. Do you really think that had there been no large public backlash against letting the registry die that Jack would have been able to change the other MP's minds? After 12 months of absolutely no success to that point?
The NDP has suffered enough from the pile of sycophant yes-men telling Jack it's okay to ignore the base, and not to worry about compromising principles for votes ... it's time the real NDP left stood up to the Liberal-lite wishy-washy NDP insider contingent that couldn't care less about a social agenda as long as someone waved a vote in front of their noses.

In the first place, I didnt advance any grand strategy. I [unfortunately] joined this discussion to defend the legitimacy of people who take an anti-registry position against the way No Yards shamelessly misrepresents and dismisses them. [And its worth noting that for the most part, those who had joined him in that have long ago stopped.]
Until recently I would only engage about strategy to point out No Yards straw men he would set up as "proofs" tha not only was the NDP unprincipled, but stupid as well. The 'proving' of these regularly getting into the kind of contradictory strains wage zombie described in the example above. Let alone that even seperately, the accusations depended on baseless speculation of what No Yards would say was the appropriate, or smart, or whatever strategy... and since they didnt do that it proves ________ .
And this post is just another of many examples of that.
No Yards thesis about why things turned out the way they did, goes like this:
1.] Layton wants to let the registry die because there are more votes in that. [Leaving aside the all over map things NY has said along the way about where those votes are, depending on the particular stick hes weilding at that moment.]
2.] Then there is this incredible reaction from pro-registry forces. And Jack who has underestimated the amount of this starts scrambling. [Leaving aside the NY has also said that Jack knew their would be this reaction. And leaving aside I have throughout the discussion this situation is a lose-lose for the NDP- and I guess Jack is supposed to have not figured out the obvious?]
3.] So Jack does this mad scrambling, gets lucky, and ends up looking good.
Right.
And Iggy is living proof that changing your position and scrambling while you are under pressure is going to bring rewards like that.
NY also argued that Jack could have got the MPs to change position last year. [Essentially: "if he cared."]
Lets look at how that is supposed to work. How a year ago he would replicate what actually happened now: providing cover for enough of the 12 MPs to feel safe in shifting their votes [and at the same time providing some general insulation from broad backlash in the NDP 'rural' vote].
So lets try out doing that a year ago.
1.] Jack talks to the 12 MPs. Finds out none of them is ready to change their position.
2.] So Jack walks out to the cameras, when there is nothing on the table, and says its really unfair and unprincipled how the Conservatives use this issue [compared to what happened now: where Jack could make use of the nasty buggers at their worst], and you know there is a better case than people think for what the registry is accomplishing [compared to what happened now: where there is the police chiefs and RCMP reports coming out as would anyone who isnt just maing stuff up about when the issue is live].
Right.
And the NDPs say, "that made such a difference. Changes the situation for me and the NDP."

Maysie Maysie's picture

I knew that would happen.

In the new thread, there will be no more he said-he said, you said this, you never rebutted my excellent point.

And no name-calling, jeez.

Why? 

Because we already have 5 threads like that!!!!

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