Harper is damaging even more the interprovincial dialog

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Lefauve
Harper is damaging even more the interprovincial dialog

Stephen Harper have decide to directly fund the Newfoundland Hydro project. This electricity is not for the province inner consumption but to be sold to de american. At that point the electricity of NF is directly in competitions with Hydro Quebec electricity. Hydro quebec was never funded by the federal, in fact all the money used to build quebec hydro power was bored in New-York, the toronto bank wasn't willing to rent the money.

Now the bottom line where everybody is a fool except Harper.

First, the american are actually not considering Hydro electricity to be a green source of energy the are willing to greener energy.

Second with the production of shall gaz, the price of electricity just got a big drop. So even if they manage to find a buyer, i got serious doute that they will manage to get enougth money to reach rentability. Even more if they build the submarine powerline. Actually in quebec presure groupe  made of economist and environementalist is pressuring the quebec governement to stop La Romaine projet.

Third, the goal of Harper is not the developement of Harper but to consolidate is conservative base.

 

Sean in Ottawa

This is quite complicated and you should consider the entire picture including the current NL-QC deal which is a very one-sided one where NL sells to Quebec power much less than QC resells it to the US.

Not taking a side here-- just pointing out it is more complicated than your post discloses.

Lefauve

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

This is quite complicated and you should consider the entire picture including the current NL-QC deal which is a very one-sided one where NL sells to Quebec power much less than QC resells it to the US.

Not taking a side here-- just pointing out it is more complicated than your post discloses.

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I agree with you that all interprovincial matter are like a basquet of crabe.

What i'm pointing out is harper is using the different between quebec and NF to get more vote from NF

If he really wanted to help develope NF the best place to do that is at multi-sided conference including all the province and the federal to try to find an arrangement that will be beneficial to every body.

By going all the way with the cash, Harper is just creating more tension.

It just like harper have forgot on purpous the complexity of the problem.

We really need to learn to negociate between province, at a level that i'm starting to believe that we need provincial embassy in order to prevent tension of building up like the one between quebec and nf.

Sean in Ottawa

Sorry, I can't agree with you -- the Feds should do what each province needs-- Quebec has many deals and different needs. This in itself is not that bad a deal. Quebec also has huge infrastructure needs right now and the Feds should pay for that-- There we are talking about billions of dollars as well. I don't think this idea that helping one province get a market should be turned down because another province is in that market. If that idea were followed we would have no federal involvement in any province.

Perhaps the feds should have helped Quebec way back when -- but maybe they did in something else. Right now Quebec has a need and so does NL and the feds should respond to both.

The Feds did force NL in to living up to a deal on Hydro that became a very bad deal due to unpredictable events. In the end Quebec could not consider it has been hard done by on the energy file or that it is not doing very well.

Quebec is hard done by in infrastructure and that is where the federal money should go. Both provinces will be better off than they would be if the feds helped neither one.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Harper is going to reward NFL and punish Quebec for the last election.

With federal money muscle,Newfoundland will cut into HQ's current contracts with the upper States which would take a boat load of money from Quebec's coffers...This will force the Quebec government to privatize our Hydro.

Harper always has an angle --- like any other shady hustler.

 

Sean in Ottawa

Sorry I don't buy the logic here at all.

Hydro Quebec is not just profitable -- it is a cash cow. The US states need more hydro than Quebec and NL can produce together-- no shortage of markets. Hydro's Neighbours have more expensive electricity production in nuclear and other generation. In fact the markets are so good for Hydro that it is hard pressed to expand and there has been considerable debate over expansion projects.

Hydro Quebec cannot be privatized-- that would be political suicide it is an extremely popular public enterprise.

As of 2009 Hydro was making 12 billion a year with 3 billion in profits controlling almost 69 billion in assets and employing some 24 thousand people...

Hard to imagine this would be something any Quebec government would let go of if they have not let go of their senses first.

As for the discussion about the power deal with NL:

"Hydro-Québec Generation owns a 34.2% interest in CFLCo, which is the same company that constructed the generating plant. However, Hydro-Québec has rights to most of the 5,400 MW of power the station produces under a 65-year power purchase agreement, expiring in 2041.[21]"

NL would dearly love to have that cut-rate power to sell but it goes to Quebec.

Harper's motives may be bad but it is not wrong to support this deal for NL.

Like I said there is a lot of places where huge federal money needs to be spent in Quebec. I'll be upset if they do not do that but will not criticize this deal to deliver what is after all Canadian power to a US market that has as much power as Quebec can send and wants more.

Lefauve

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Sorry, I can't agree with you -- the Feds should do what each province needs-- Quebec has many deals and different needs. This in itself is not that bad a deal. Quebec also has huge infrastructure needs right now and the Feds should pay for that-- There we are talking about billions of dollars as well. I don't think this idea that helping one province get a market should be turned down because another province is in that market. If that idea were followed we would have no federal involvement in any province.

Perhaps the feds should have helped Quebec way back when -- but maybe they did in something else. Right now Quebec has a need and so does NL and the feds should respond to both.

The Feds did force NL in to living up to a deal on Hydro that became a very bad deal due to unpredictable events. In the end Quebec could not consider it has been hard done by on the energy file or that it is not doing very well.

Quebec is hard done by in infrastructure and that is where the federal money should go. Both provinces will be better off than they would be if the feds helped neither one.

The weakness of your argument reside in the classification of the needs. I don't think that we can compare transport infrastructure with energy production infrastructure. the main difference reside in the comercial purpose of energy.
Sure not having good transport infrastructure is a nuissance but having new infrastructure is not an asset. as long as you can move from point a to point b it good and it won't damage ressource of other.

Also, with there oil industries Nf got a good assets to give warranty of any loan. Right now if they want to get a loan by them self, it the best time.

An other point is quebec and nf are in competitions for the american market, if we don't organise ourself the end result is that canadians are going to subdise the electricity for american consumer.

The correct way to help is to help build a shared power line. You see, the main cause of the diagreement as the transportation of the electricity to the usa which require new installation. Building a powerline is quite costly (around 50% of the current churchild fall project) and is why quebec and Nf didn't reach an agreement because the initial deal didn't reach at least the maintenance cost and investment cost of the powerline. If Harper decide to help in the construction of the powerline we will have a win win situation.

Lefauve

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Like I said there is a lot of places where huge federal money needs to be spent in Quebec. I'll be upset if they do not do that but will not criticize this deal to deliver what is after all Canadian power to a US market that has as much power as Quebec can send and wants more.

Sorry but the american energy demand is not limitless actually lot of us quebecer are pushing to stop the la romaine project. If we are too much to offer the price are going to drop.

Also the shale gaz price is making the price of electricity take a dive. Now it not a good time for investing in electricity export.

Sean in Ottawa

The competition angle comes off as petty considering that the market is so much bigger than NL and Quebec can produce. Why should Quebec want to deny NL a part of a market that Quebec cannot completely satisfy? That is not competition that is nastiness in my view. Look around this site-- I am very pro Quebec but I cannot accept this line of argument as being even remotely fair-minded.

Infrastructure -- nuisance? It is a public safety issue not a nuisance. Sorry but I drove under a concrete slab that fell down two days later-- that is not a nuisance.

Quebec does have a powerline to deliver its hydro already and is delivering as much as it can produce.

There is no classification of needs-- both are essential and both are expensive and both the Feds should be supporting-- that is the only classification I made.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

I'm part of a FB group aligned against the La Romaine project, and there's a Facebook page devoted against the project.

Lefauve

"Quebec does have a powerline to deliver its hydro already and is delivering as much as it can produce."

It where i disagree, the equipment already in use is designed to support a certain amount of current. If we send more current the lost in the powerlne will be too great (ohms law). Sorry but nothing is limitless on earth. The current way Harper is doing thing everybody is loosing especially Newfoundland who will get a huge debt and won't have the cash to pay for it because the the price of electricity will be simply to low. But Harper doesn't care because when they realise it, he will be retired for a long time. After me, the end of the world, it how Harper think. Ps. I don't say that we shouldn't develop churchild fall. But if we don't want shoot ourself in the feet, we need to organise ourself to avoid the price drop which will be a disaster for both Quebec and Newfoundland. We can both win if we plan a common strategy. But before we must make deal with the east coast state one by one in order to push forward green law in exchange for fair price electricity. Let do it step by step.