I guess the TTC Union has taken the workers rights away.

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trippie
I guess the TTC Union has taken the workers rights away.

From todays Toronto Star article, it seems the TTC Union has completely lost its way in the world.

 

Once Unions understood the working class struggle. But years of expelling militant Socialist and Class collaberation, they have now come to the point were they openly state that the workers will not strike.

 

You wonder why we don't see revolts in Canada? It's because of these clowns. The ones that sell us out at ever turn.

 

The ones that have lost all understanding of Socialism and the working class struggle. The ones that have zero abilities to defend the rights of the workers when the bourgeoisie ask for ever more consessions.

----------------

 

http://www.thestar.com/news/transportation/article/932836--ease-off-on-e...

 

"Toronto’s transit workers’ union says it will give up the right to strike during its next contract talks"

“This will effectively give the mayor what he wants and allow for more consultation,” Amalgamated Transit Union Local 113 president Bob Kinnear told reporters Thursday.

“If we are unable to reach a voluntary agreement with the TTC, we agree in advance to submit our unresolved issues to binding arbitration,” he said.

------------------------------

 

Why doesn't he just state that the workers will bend over backwards, in submission, to all the demands of the bourgeoisie?

 

 

trippie

If this Union understood the strangth of the working class, they would understand that we could shut the entire province down with in a few days.

 

If the bourgeosie want consession from these vital workers, then this Union should mobilize the entire work force of Toronto to shut the City down. Then we will see who's telling who to make consessions.

 

But then they would have to understand what the fight is all about. They would have to stop caring some much about their class position in life.

 

To say Im a little pissed at this turn of events is a little late. I watched how the Unions in Toronto sell out the people they represent. They leave them out to dry. They never tie their fight into the large fight that is going on. They never mobilize the working class to defend their rights.

They are class collaberaters.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

The TTC workers better hope that the boss doesn't fly in Vince Ready.  The ferry workers in BC thought they were getting binding arbitration on a limited number of items and Vince took a year and hundreds of thousands of dollars to saddle the union with a concession ridden 7 year contract.  Mind you the ferry workers fight back at least required the government to change the legal rules of the game before they were forced through the binding arbitration door.  Unless the union gets to pick the arbitrator and they pick wisely this could end badly for the membership.

Quote:

 

Although I am mindful of the content of the Coastal Ferry Act, I am 

particularly concerned with what was happening with collective bargaining in 

this province when this dispute began.  I hold the view that a plausible outcome 

of this dispute, had it been allowed to reach its ultimate conclusion in 

December, 2003, would have been a legislated settlement.  It is very likely that 

an imposed settlement would have incorporated the terms and conditions of the 

Employer’s last offer prior to the parties’ agreement to submit the dispute to 

arbitration and end the labour dispute. 

 

 Indeed there is ample precedent in the last three years for that type of 

provincial government intervention.  This dispute, in my view, would have 

ended in a similar manner. 

 16 

 

 Therefore, in applying the principles of replication in the case at hand, I 

believe the more prudent approach is to deal with the present labour relations 

realities at BC Ferries.  That is, to deal with real and substantive issues as they 

presently exist and issue an award accordingly.  Such an award should take 

into consideration the collective agreement which was freely bargained by this 

Union and Deas Pacific Marine, but cannot ignore the present unique financial 

and operational realities facing the parties. 

 

http://www.bcferries.com/files/PDFs/Ready_Decision_Complete.pdf

 

 

Sean in Ottawa

You should look at how binding arbitration works -- in Ottawa they were begging for it in the last strike because BA gives more to workers than they can get at the table or out on strike. I think the OP is inflammatory.

You don't need to agree, you can even say it is the wrong way to settle things but it is not a sell-out. Binding arbitration has tended to be a lot better for public sector workers for some time-- partly because employers are more intransigent than ever at the table and only a third party with binding power gets them to reasons and partly because the rate payers get all whipped up to insist the employers concede nothing. And it skips being on strike pay for weeks.

trippie

I come from Windsor, I've lived through strikes.I lived a great live because my father was part of the Ford Union. My life was great because men before me made sure that my dad and his family would benefit as much as possible from their laour.

 

Now a days, these sell out Unions and there know nothing leadership have given our power away. As if the bourgeoise have anything to say to us.

 

The Working Class does not need binding arbitration.

 

There is nothing to negotiate. How do you negotiate with someone that wants to live off of the surplus value they steal from you?

 

They live for free and you sweet your ass off.

 

We have the power and they don't. These Union leadership sell outs throw it all away? Why is that? Because they care more for their position in society and not for the historic theft, perpatrated on the working class.

 

Take a look at Egypt, what is missing from their revolution? It's the knowledge of moving towards a Socialist state? These working class people knwo they need abetter life, but they have been sold out time and time again byt he people that called themselves leaders.

 

You know what preseeded the Russian October Revolution... It was when the governmetn allowed the Marx book Capital to be distributed in Russia. It soon became a best seller, people understood what the fight was about. They understood why they had to fight and how they were being used by the ruling elite. They knew were to go once they gained power. They had leadership that understood the theory beind it all.

 

Not the leaders of today, no they bow out of the fight before it even begins,. They sell out every right the working class won from years ago. No they want to make consesions with the Capitalists. They thefves that steel from our labour.

 

OK, that's the end of my rant, Im getting sick and tired fighting against people that should be on my side.

Pogo Pogo's picture

My understanding was like Sean, that on balance binding arbitration leans toward workers.

Doug

I expect that if you were to ask actual working-class people in Toronto, they'd be thrilled to have transit service protected from disturbance due to strikes. Let's not confuse what you think people ought to think for what they actually do think.

Sean in Ottawa

I am perfectly ok with people disagreeing with the tactic of saying let's go to binging arbitration instead knowing workers do well with it -- that is very different from just giving up the right to strike on its own.

My problem is with the inflammatory language in the headline and post implying the leadership purposefully sold the workers out to something they knew was less than they had before. That is simply false. You say you don't want to fight with people who should be on your side and that is exactly my point -- no need to use this language.

We can have a thread looking at the pros and cons of offering binging arbitration instead of strikes in today's context but it should not begin by claiming that the union purposely sold out its membership.

I get that the right to strike is fundamental in many respects but this offer was a practical one made in the interest of workers and does not deserve to be characterized this way even if you think it is wrong. And in the end the decision was personalized in the last line demonizing the spokesperson. Unions are more democratic than that and more than one person was behind the strategy. The statement is more than a little nasty towards an individual in the labour movement trying to get the best for workers-- even if that is not in agreement with the way you would do it.

Le T Le T's picture

Well clarified, Unionist.

 

 

Quote:
I expect that if you were to ask actual working-class people in Toronto, they'd be thrilled to have transit service protected from disturbance due to strikes. Let's not confuse what you think people ought to think for what they actually do think.

Actual working-class people in Toronto, eh? I'm guessing you don't include yourself in that group as you invoke their voice to support your anti-union position. Your tactic is not uncommon as we are told about all the working-class folks who desperatly want to take away the union's right to strike so tht they wont have endure the two or three days of service that has been lost to strikes in the last 15 years. I would guess that most of us working-class folks on the bus are more concerned over the DAILY DELAYS caused by equipment failure (the result of an under-funded system) or the user fees that increase at rates many, many times inflation. But I'm sure that you and Rob Ford and George Smitherman and all the other rich, business owners who don't want to pay taxes and are THE ONLY ONES persuing essential service designation have your finger on the pulse of what actual working-class people think.

 

Trippie - you seem to be opening up the larger issue of syndicalism versus trade unionism, or what tactics workers should use to take back some of what has been stolen from them? Do you think that this analysis can be saved just for the recent actions of the transit union?

Unionist

I appreciate trippie's fervour, and everyone's comments, but this entire thread is based upon a total misunderstanding of what is happening.

The union(s) are offering to settle this particular round of bargaining without strike action, in advance, as a gesture to try to head off the adoption - in all-out panic mode - of provincial essential services legislation without adequate public consultation. That could make the difference between a complete ban on TTC services in future vs. the kind of partial restrictions that exist in other provinces and make partial (and often effective) strike action still possible.

Every single union that signs a collective agreement "gives up" its right to strike for the duration. And, on rare occasions, a union may opt for or even propose third-party arbitration - typically when the employer is looking for concessions.

Binding arbitration, as opposed to Pogo's rather sweeping (and I think mistaken) generalization, does not "lean towards workers". By precedent and jurisprudence, arbitrators are required to try to replicate what the parties would themselves have fashioned if they still had recourse to the tools of economic warfare (strikes, lockouts, etc.). It is by its nature a fairly conservative process, tending to follow established pay and benefit patterns in the same or other sectors. Most importantly, it tends to favour the party which is not looking for radical changes.

In various jurisdictions - most notably the federal public service - unions actually get to choose, before the start of each round of bargaining, whether they want the route of "free" collective bargaining or that of binding arbitration. The latter choice is the rare exception (relatively speaking).

Anyway, why not read what the union has to say (not as filtered through the MSM) before hailing or condemning their move, because that's what it is - a chess move. This is absolutely not about debating whether they'll get a better or worse contract, in 2011, by maintaining the strike weapon or by arbitration. If they follow trippie's advice, they may lose that strike weapon entirely before March 31, and for a long time to come - and of course feel very good that they stood on some imaginary "principle" until they fell.

[url=http://wemovetoronto.ca/?p=1590]Here is the latest statement[/url] by Bob Kinnear, president of Local 113 of the Amalgamated Transit Union.

 

Doug

I am not a rich business owner. I do not work in management. I am a trade union member. I don't believe I actually stated my position - which for the record is to try reaching an essential service agreement with the ATU first to assure a minimum level of service that could continue during a strike.  I mentioned what I believe public opinion to be. Since over 80% of Toronto voters selected mayoral candidates who support making the TTC an essential service I could perhaps be forgiven for thinking that meant that this isn't a proposition Torontonians are wildly opposed to.

Yes, only a few days of service has been lost in recent years to strikes. That's just an inconvenience for most but for people who do not own a car, may not have the social connections to get a lift or to stay somewhere closer to their job and who are in jobs with little security this can be a big, big deal. For some people, the day they don't show up at work is the day they get fired. For them, transit really is almost as essential as water or electricity.

trippie

To all you people here are Rabble.ca that think I don't understand what is going on.

Here, Ill tell you what is going on. You are all in deniel about what is happening. Just read the post #10 and you will see a working class memeber that has lost all ability to see clearly and bitten into the bourgeois propaganda.

The working class leadership in the Trade Unions and the Political parties like the NDP have lost all sense of what surplus value is and how it is exploited.

 

The Union is begging the Bourgeoise not to make the TTC an essential service. They are Begging. Why are they begging?

The working class long ago had these battles and won. We won the right to strike. We won the right to collectively bargain in our favour.

I have watched the Unions here in Toronto over the last three years. From the Garbage strike to the TTC strike and at every turn they have sat back and let the bourgeoisie control the discussion.

People in Toronto think they want tht TTC to be declaired and essential service because they don't understand the basics of Socialism, they do not understand what surplus value is. They do not understand how they are bein=g exploited under capitalism.

 

I have watched as the Unions did not tie the TTC and Gerbage strike into the large social understand of things. They did not connect their struggles to the struggle of alll the working class.

 

They  are now begging the bourgeosie because they feel they have no power.

 

They got rid of the Socialist understanding, They got rid of the militancy from their ranks. And now we the working class, paying the price.

 

I have a very simple solution to the TTC propblem. Some asshole takes a picture of a bus driver and the MSM publish it, the TTC stops all business. You know how important the TTC is? Well they will find out very quickly how important it is. And if that don't do the job, then they mobilize the entire work force of Toronto to make it stop.

 

You know Ive seen photos and people have been fired and what has the Union done publicly aoub it all? Begged the bourgeoise not to make it an essential service.

 

Do you think being a bus driver is some great career opertunity, it's a fucking hard job and people should respect them for what they do.

 

Do you think this shit happen yesterday, no it started years ago. You need to start connecting the dots here.

trippie

Why does the public think it can take photos of the TTC workers?

 

Why does the public think it needs to take photos of the TTC workers?

 

It's because the TTC is underfunded and they are paying the price for it. It is because the worker is the only one they are in contact with and in their feeling of hopelessness they lash out at the workers.

 

So were is the Union protecting it's membership. Oh that's right it's to busy begging the Bourgeoisie not to make them irrelevant.

 

So when the ticket price goes up by 25 cents , why do the riders want the Union to be dissolved? Why is the man?

 

who controls the message? Well the bourgeoisie. The exploiters control the message and the exploited pint their finger at each other. And the only thing that helps the exploited, the right to assemble, is put under attack by the exploiters and the exploited think it's OK. Because  for some reason, in their minds, the right to assemble and withhold your labour is a bad thing.

Le T Le T's picture

I think that i agree with a lot of what you are saying, Trippie. BUT, i don't think that you can blame the transit union for not being militant enough as if that is what is needed to support the workers. If the union went on a wildcat strike when some asshole snapped a photo of a driver then the province would declare the TTC essential the next day. McGuinty is up for election this fall. Most people who vote in the province are not Socialists or even union supporters so McGuinty would be happy to have a reason to appear tough on labour before an election.

I think that the garbage strike and the TTC strike were tied together (or at least attempted) as part of a larger problem with neoliberal government at the federal, provincial and municiple level.

I have lots of ideas about things that Kinear and the leadership could do better but since i'm not in that union and i don't have all the facts i think that it's a little pointless/paternalistic for me to play armchair union boss. I can clearly see that the transit union is under attack so i will offer my support to the workers by challenging the stupid things that the media tell Torontonians to think and organizing with other TTC riders. I will let the union membership figure out their own tactics and offer solidarity when they take action.

 

Unionist

Where's that "Like" button?

You spoke for me too, Le T.

 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Le T wrote:

I can clearly see that the transit union is under attack so i will offer my support to the workers by challenging the stupid things that the media tell Torontonians to think and organizing with other TTC riders. I will let the union membership figure out their own tactics and offer solidarity when they take action.

 

If the union membership is driving this process I would be extremely surprised.   No more Reds in the Union is a great song and I think highlights what trippie is talking about.  Unions tend to be the most democratic institutions in our society.  Unfortunately given my close up experience with numerous real unions all that statement says is there is little or no democracy anywhere in our society,

trippie

Ya there should be a "like" button. Anyways....

 

It looks like the next order of business is to attack the Garbage collectors.

 

You see, it's a never ending road for the bourgeoisie, every single right we have won from them over the years they look to reverse.

 

At what point do the Unions make a stand? If it's not today, then when?

 

At some point my view point will be the prevailing one. World Capitalism under American rule, is in full decline. The Capitalist will be looking at the working class to make up the short fall. They will attack us at every point.

 

The photos are just another reactionary happenstance they will use to their full advantage. We need to take that away from them. That is the job of the Union to do so, and thus far they have failed.

 

Come on, I'm being realistic here. You name me one fight the working class has had with the bourgeoisie since the 1990s, in Canada, and has won? You name me one?

 

I talk to countless people in everyday life, less then 1%, even remotely understand what Socialism is or even what surplus value is, or how Capitalism exploits them. Less then 1%.

 

If people don't even understand the most basic arguements against Capitalism, how in the hell are they going to fight for their rights?

 

Ill tell you what will happen. They will get upset with the backwards movement of their economic situation. They will have protests and they will be lead back into the arms of bourgeoisie by some opportunist political party.

 

I don't fall for that, you know why, because I understand the Marxist critique of Capitalism. I don't buy into the bourgeoisie bullshit. I don't want them to have one inch of my labour to exploit. They with hold food from us so they can exploit us, they with hold shelter, they rain terror on our heads with never ending wars, they use our labour to build disgusting weapons of mass destruction. They threaten us with fascism at every turn.

 

I have no problems shutting down they Capitalist system when they want to turn the tides on our rights.

trippie

Look this is how it is.

 

They are going to take $16+ billion from the value of your labour to purchase jet fighters.

 

They are going to use your labour to rain terror on someone on this planet, just so the Capitalist form of surplus value exploitation can continue.

 

They are going to turn your labour into the very weapons that will keep you enslaved, and you are worried about the Union going on strike disrupting people from going to work?

 

Some asshole wants to take photos of the working class, hand them over the the bourgeoisie, so that the bourgeoisie can use them against us and further erode our rights? I don't think so, that's not going down kindly in my books.

Sean in Ottawa

I think that many people think that democracy is about mechanisms of making choices and about numbers. Democracy is about the exercise of collective free thinking. It drowns in propaganda and ignorance and in too many answers when there are not enough questions.

I came in to this thread concerned as others were about the judgment of a union leadership without a full understanding of the rationale. I agree it is good to ask questions but we should not assume answers before we have even asked them.

In some respects I am uncomfortable with the issue of the photo however and see no reason for it to be the rallying cry here-- it is a difficult one because it is not black and white-- the driver was wrong and what he was doing apparently (we may lack some facts here) looked illegal and dangerous. That said the solution ought not to be through taking a picture-- but it is not the taking of the picture I have the most trouble with. Most members of the public could imagine some sympathy for the person who took the picture and I am sorry I am not going to call that person an asshole for taking the picture. I may call the person an asshole for sending it to the press-- but I would not if they had sent it to the TTC, I am sorry to say.

I will call the person who chose to print it in the paper an asshole. I'll call the paper that would choose to put it on the cover chock full of assholes. I will call the media writers and talk show hosts making hay of this assholes. I will call the public soaking all this in critically naive and ignorant. Only then could I even start to return to someone riding a bus realizing that the driver is not focused fully on the road. Maybe that's because I have been in a bus accident and seen elderly people thrown to the floor and injured.

The union movement does not need to defend every action of every worker to defend either those worker's rights and the movement itself. Something this dangerous-- assuming it is true (I have photoshop too) may be of a picture.

I am think most TTC drivers would recognize the driver was wrong and would not want to defend the driver for that although most would sympathize that the forum for discipline is not a newspaper.

Anyway-- the pic is a distraction from the wider question of the union's actions which ought not to be interpreted and judged out of context and unfairly. And that is unfortunately a distraction from the wider question related to the ongoing propaganda campaign against workers and their organizations which brings us right full circle back to the publishing of the picture and unfair characterization of a union.

Public service unions face the difficulty of a public that is paying through taxes for their services and therefore in a conflict of interest. Many people have no interest in what is right or wrong if it will affect their taxes.

In other news there was a story in Ottawa about public and private services as the public partnered with CUPE tendered on a job and proved that the unionized public service was cheaper AND better quality than the private on-unionized for profit service. They were audited and the reality of the savings they brought he city in the millions of dollars was a major local story today.

Unions provide not only good value to the workers but also to the public in the public services they provide. They also provide a very important perspective to the public when it comes to the services themselves. Good one CUPE!

Sean in Ottawa

I'll add I very much appreciate Trippie's posts in this thread and totally agree with both the sentiment and direction of them. People need to re-examine who is on their side and it is the workers not the big capitalists. Thanks for your posts here Trippie.

WilderMore

I suppose it does not help when the TTC employees are charged with assaulting passengers.

 

'Screaming' TTC worker shoved me, man claims

 

Isaac Gould rides the TTC with his 10-year-old son all the time.

However, now he says his son is afraid to ride the bus and feels "emotionally damaged" by an ugly episode with a Toronto Transit Commission employee last month.

That employee has been charged with assault after a Jan. 8 incident in which Gould says the man swore at him and pushed him into a steel pole on a TTC bus.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/article/935521--screaming-ttc-worker-s...

 

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Hi WilderMore. This thread and this forum are not places where you queue up complaints against the TTC. This is your final warning on labour-related threads. The next strike and you'll be suspended. Stay out of this thread from now on.

Caissa

You mean the next strike leads to a lockout. Wink

trippie

OK, here a few questions.

- Does the photo taker and the photo publisher live in the same environment?

- If so what is that environment?

- Why did the photo taker feel the need to be the judge of the driver?

- Why do people feel the need to attack the TTC work force at every turn?

- Why do the people think they have a right to discipline the TTC workers?

- How did such a hostile work atmosphere evolve?

- Who's responsibility is it to protect the workers rights?

 

 

trippie

Well here is the latest salvo from the Capitalist aimed at the Toronto Wroking Class.

 

This coming from the new Kings of Toronto.

 

n a brief telephone interview with the Star on Wednesday, the brother and closest adviser of Mayor Rob Ford said: “We’re going to target ‘jobs for life’ whenever we can, because nobody should have a job for life.

“I can tell you we’ll go after it in every negotiation we can. I can’t say we’ll be successful, but I can say we’ll give it one hell of a try.”

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/936073--ford-team-takes-aim-at-jobs-...

 

So this is what the working class has to deal with. Is the Union leadership ready to help protect our rights? How will they do this? Do they have the militancy needed to win this battle? Do they have the right arguments? Do they poses the proper philosophy to rally the troops? To educate the public? Can they show this fight in a larger context?

Doug

The mayor Toronto's working class elected. It's not like he just magically dropped in from outer space.

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

Toronto media elected the mayor.  That's why we need rabble.

Papal Bull

Doug wrote:
from outer space.

 

Etobicoke.

Aristotleded24

RevolutionPlease wrote:
Toronto media elected the mayor.  That's why we need rabble.

If anything, the people firmly rebuked the media for telling them how they should vote.

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

Aristotleded24, you never open the Sun?  It just affirmed the hapless Star smear job.  And it got basically the same result. 

 

You've got your head in the sand if you think people firmly rebuked the media for telling them how they should vote.  The voters showed just how complacent they are.

Le T Le T's picture

Quote:
The mayor Toronto's working class elected. It's not like he just magically dropped in from outer space.

Really, the 40% of the registered electorate that voted for Ford represent the city's working class? Do you have any data to back up that statement?

I think that the media owns this one considering the election was framed as "He's fat and stupid" "Gravy Train!!!!"

Snert Snert's picture

Quote:

They are going to take $16+ billion from the value of your labour to purchase jet fighters.

 

Taxes steal the value of my labour? That could be its own fascinating thread.

 

Regarding Ford, like him or not, no elected politician in Canadian history has ever received more direct votes. If "the media" elected Ford, the electorate were the medias willing accomplices.

 

Funny, though, that all I really remember about the media coverage of Ford was that they mostly left him to look like a buffoon. If that was some kind of reverse psychology then "well played".

Sineed

Well...I'd argue that Ford makes himself look like a buffoon - the public drunken temper tantrums, the racial slurs, the petulant whining at council meetings now framed by Ford supporters as "standing on principle."  But we digress.

The TTC union has an enormous public relations problem.  Maybe they need to hire Nick Kouvalis, who is no longer employed by the mayor.

Doug

Le T wrote:

Really, the 40% of the registered electorate that voted for Ford represent the city's working class? Do you have any data to back up that statement?

 

Yep. Look at where his votes came from. This isn't where Toronto's rich live.

Aristotleded24

Le T wrote:
Quote:
The mayor Toronto's working class elected. It's not like he just magically dropped in from outer space.

Really, the 40% of the registered electorate that voted for Ford represent the city's working class? Do you have any data to back up that statement?

Sounds to me like sour grapes. The fact is, Ford was elected with a turn-out of about half the population, which is the norm for a civic election. In fact, he received more total votes than Miller ever did. The fact that about half of the electorate stayed home? That's just the choice they made. We can have the discussion about how to increase turnout, but the fact is that about half the eligible voters did not see a potential Ford victory as a problem worth trying to stop. What about Naheed Nenshi? Is that election not valid because a little under half of Calgary voters didn't turn out? And I can't really remember anyone here saying that Miller didn't have a "mandate" because of low turn-out.

It's usually only the side that loses the election which points to the low turn-out and claims that the results are not representative of what the people want. I wonder why?

trippie

Some of you guys sound like dupes. We live in a representative bourgeois democracy. That means a working class solution will never happen under the dictates of the scenario.

 

As for the election of Rob Ford, a majority of voters did not want him as their representative. He won the bourgeois election, because it is rigged in favour of a bourgeois outcome.

 

As for the voters that did not participate, they are still counted. Why? Because it is obvious that most did not want any of the bourgeois politicians running, to be their representative.

 

As for why people voted form this man, well theres lots of frustration out there. People are not immune the the crash of capitalism. They see their economic situation deteriorate and Rob Ford, with his answers derived from simplistic emotional rhetorical thinking, works well with their desperate, fearful and politically illiterate view on the situation. There is a reason why we think of them as reactionary.

 

There are no sour grapes here. When we complain about the capitalist in charge of our society, we use dialectal reasoning, and their arguements come up a short.

trippie

Well it keeps getting better and better everyday. Yesterday it was the attack on, coming form his Majesty Doug Ford, "jobs for life'. well now the all knowing Ford tells demonstrators to "get a job".

 

Yup, "get a job" coming from the guy that inherited a 'gravy train' from his dad.

 

Looks like the Unions will be having one hell of a fight on their hands. Lets see if they have the philosophy to bring the working class on their side of the argument.

NDPP

Toronto Announces Privatization of Municipal Workplace  -  by Carl Bronski

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/feb2011/cana-f12.shtml

"In truth the trade unions, which have become evermore integrated with management over the past three decades have responded to the greatest capitalist crisis since the Great Depression by moving sharply to the right. They fully supported the NDP's bid to become junior partners in a national Liberal-led coalition government committed to implementing the Conservative's corporate tax cuts and waging war in Afghanistan...

And what has been the response of the labour bureaucracy to the machinations of the Ford cabal? Ferguson and his colleagues in the CUPE leadership are experts in confining the struggles of their members within the straightjacket of collective bargaining. Ferguson is not alone in his refusal to prepare for the all-out confrontation with city employees that Ford intends..

If the upcoming struggle of Toronto city employees is not to be isolated or lost, workers must repudiate the defeatist orientation of their union leadership.."

Sean in Ottawa

safetysue-- interesting post but who are you talking about?

I think the general population is quite ignorant and anti-union. I would not say the same about the people in this thread-- even the ones who have different views.

There is a legitimate point being made that the union may have a good reason for doing what they are doing and the right to strike is not being questionned here.

safetysue

trippie wrote:

I come from Windsor, I've lived through strikes.I lived a great live because my father was part of the Ford Union. My life was great because men before me made sure that my dad and his family would benefit as much as possible from their laour.

 

Now a days, these sell out Unions and there know nothing leadership have given our power away. As if the bourgeoise have anything to say to us.

 

The Working Class does not need binding arbitration.

 

There is nothing to negotiate. How do you negotiate with someone that wants to live off of the surplus value they steal from you?

 

They live for free and you sweet your ass off.

 

We have the power and they don't. These Union leadership sell outs throw it all away? Why is that? Because they care more for their position in society and not for the historic theft, perpatrated on the working class.

 

Take a look at Egypt, what is missing from their revolution? It's the knowledge of moving towards a Socialist state? These working class people knwo they need abetter life, but they have been sold out time and time again byt he people that called themselves leaders.

 

You know what preseeded the Russian October Revolution... It was when the governmetn allowed the Marx book Capital to be distributed in Russia. It soon became a best seller, people understood what the fight was about. They understood why they had to fight and how they were being used by the ruling elite. They knew were to go once they gained power. They had leadership that understood the theory beind it all.

 

Not the leaders of today, no they bow out of the fight before it even begins,. They sell out every right the working class won from years ago. No they want to make consesions with the Capitalists. They thefves that steel from our labour.

 

OK, that's the end of my rant, Im getting sick and tired fighting against people that should be on my side.

Many people have no concept of class struggle.  They have no concept of how they manage to earn more than $2.00 a day in wages.  Strikes and workers actions have paved the way for their pretty salaries and nice houses and fine foods they eat today.  They have no historical background, no education in the fundamentals of how class structure rules their lives.  People know more about who the 1st president of the United States was and who is the current president of the U.S.A. than about their own working class history.  They know more about the prices of lettuce in Costco and Metro and Loblaws than they do about their own grandparents struggles as immigrants.  I bet less than one person out of 10,000 knows the history of the Winnipeg Revolution.  I would be happy to hear from those who have ever read or heard about the On to Ottawa Trek in July 1935;  or about the crowd of 40,000 protesters in the annual May Day Parade of 1936. Spadina Avenue was the focal point of strikes, with political speakers on street corners and cops arresting people left, right and centre.  The police used gas bombs to disrupt meetings and beat up protesters.  Sound familiar.  Nothing has changed.  If you allow the right to win, and to stop workers from using their only power  - the strike, then you are on the neo-liberalist side, and the world will die.  A better world can be won.  But not by denying workers the right to use their ultimate leverage, strike.  So what if TTC workers go on strike.  Power to them.  If they are being treated like dirt, why shouldn't they strike?  Join them.  Don't go to work and support them.  Bet everyone gets a payraise.  

 As for the union leaders.  They are dirt.  They are there to negotiate the terms of exploitation of the workers.  They get a cut of everything that the shareholders win.  They golf with the corporate executives.  They do not care about their membership.  They are afraid of losing their big pay package.  They are nothing but union bureaucrats who dine on the fat of the labour of workers.  And that includes you:  Secretaries, legal assistants, lawyers, adminstrators, nurses, doctors, bakers, fabricators, Tim Horton's staff, Metro Staff, city workers, provincial workers, TTC workers, Hydro Workers and on and on.   Support any and all workers who say, hey this ain't fair. I'm withdrawing my labour. 

safetysue

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

safetysue-- interesting post but who are you talking about?

I think the general population is quite ignorant and anti-union. I would not say the same about the people in this thread-- even the ones who have different views.

There is a legitimate point being made that the union may have a good reason for doing what they are doing and the right to strike is not being questionned here.

 

I have no idea what you are talking about.  Sorry.  The union bureaucrats are selling out, like they always do.  Remember Solidarity in B.C.?  Workers can never give up their right to withdraw their labour or they become slaves.

safetysue

And by the way, where are the photos of TTC management doing what they shouldn't be doing?

trippie

Up, the fight has intensified.

 

A quick look at Toronto and the  working class can see how the Bourgeoisie have used their representative democracy, to subvert the will of the working class, by installed one of their own to power.

 

At no point was a Socialist working class opinion presented, every candidate that the press talked about, was one form of bourgeoisie or another. The Working class largely did not participate in the election, or did not vote for the chosen leader of the bourgeois state.

And what is the aim of this leader, to annihilate every right the working class has won. And what has the Union leadership said? They are on record for saying they will work with Rob Ford and also they will revoke the right to strike in appeasement to them.

Snert Snert's picture

Quote:
At no point was a Socialist working class opinion presented

 

Whose responsibility is it to "present" choices on a ballot? I ask because no mayoral candidate perfectly captured all of my beliefs and values, and I assume there's a hotline somewhere that I can call to complain about this?

Le T Le T's picture

Quote:
Whose responsibility is it to "present" choices on a ballot? I ask because no mayoral candidate perfectly captured all of my beliefs and values, and I assume there's a hotline somewhere that I can call to complain about this?

Well considering that the media only talked about 2 of the twenty-something mayoral candidates as serious contenders and allowed three others to participate in public debate...

Snert Snert's picture

But if you're discussing the Academy Awards, you're discussing the movies that might plausibly win.  It's not a big slight to leave out Encino Man and focus on The King's Speech.

The top three candidates took 94.5% of the vote.  The other seventeen candidates combined shared 5.5%.  I'm sure that if the press had chosen, say, Howard Gomberg and mentioned his name any time the other three were mentioned, his vote count could have quadrupled -- from 477 votes to nearly 2000, or nearly one quarter of one percent of the vote!

Is there a particular mayoral candidate that you think might reasonably have won, if they'd been included in the publicized debates? 

Doug

safetysue wrote:

And by the way, where are the photos of TTC management doing what they shouldn't be doing?

 

If only TTC management wore convenient uniforms. However, for the most part we don't need photos of them doing stupid things because it's right there in the documents they produce. Such as wanting to spend a billion dollars on subway safety barriers instead of transit expansion.

Sineed

safetysue wrote:
Workers can never give up their right to withdraw their labour or they become slaves.

Speaking as a health care worker who belongs to a union but is not allowed to strike, I don't feel like a slave.

trippie

@ Snert

 

Like I said, a working clas Socialist option was not presented byt he bourgeois press. Why? because it's not in their best interest.

 

It has nothingto do with how many votes a person may or may not get. It's about education and if th bourgeois press will not fill the roll I have no reason to appologize for them..Ill leave that up to you.

 

 

trippie

@ Sineed

What does not feeling like a slave have to do with the ability to strike. If you were to strike I would fully support you. Of course being a nurse is quit important, but you still have the right to with hold your labour, even though the bourgeoisie will punish you if you exercise that right.

trippie

I want to post here, for the record of Rabble.ca, the words of a Union sell out.

 

Here they are right from from the Globe and Mail.... Mr Bob Kinnear, president of Amalgamated Transit Union Local 113,

Are you ready????

 

“We will act as if an essential service law was already in effect,” 

 

“This will effectively give the mayor what he wants but will also allow for more consultation than he has been so far willing to give.”

 

“I can tell you clearly that I have instructed my members from the beginning of this term that there are going to be decisions and positions that we take as a union that may not be popular with the rank-and-file, but they are decisions that are going to be made in the best interests of our organization for the long term…The old days are over. We’ve got to be a lot smarter in how we deliver our message”.

 

Yup my friends, right before your very eyes, the Union leadershp sells out the working class. Giving away it's most basic right, the right to with hold it's labour power.