Justin Trudeau elbows Ruth Ellen Brosseau

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Justin Trudeau elbows Ruth Ellen Brosseau

Surprised

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[url=http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-conservative-whip-1.3588407]BREA... Trudeau accused of 'manhandling' Conservative, elbowing NDP MP in House uproar[/url]

Unionist

And you people complain about the Senate.

If the allegations are correct, Trudeau should simply offer his resignation. This is not complicated.

 

quizzical

lots of witnesses and he apologized several times so allegedly can kinda fall away.

he should be resigning. he won't. the glitter is falling off fast though.

this dispells the notion he is a feminist.

what a leader of a country we have. good role model for the continued abuse of women. fk.

 

 

NorthReport

Don't tell me the honeymoon is over already now that he has physically thumped Brosseau Maybe Trudeau and Pacquiao should fight eh!

Unionist wrote:

And you people complain about the Senate.

If the allegations are correct, Trudeau should simply offer his resignation. This is not complicated.

 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

The elbow to Ruth was reprehensible but physically grabbing Opposition whip Gord Brown was just as bad if not worse. I was gob smacked looking at the man think he could grab an MP on the floor of the House to make him take his seat faster. I guess he was going to be late for a photo-op and the peons were spoiling his schedule. 

This is arrogant self entitlement at its worst. He thinks he's the King.

Aristotleded24

As reprehensible as Harper's gang was, I don't remember them instigating any physical altercations like this.

Shameful. This must be denounced wholeheartedly.

Anybody catch Elizabeth May's pathetic defence of Trudeau? She said the encounter was "unintentional." The first rule of sexual harassment training is that it's not the intent but the effect that is relevant. How hypocritical of her to defend Trudeau when if it was Harper or one of his MPs who had done this under the Conservative government that she would be screaming from the hills about lack of respect for Parliament. And to minimize the impact on Brosseau by saying he was trying to apologize? If it was a male MP that behaved in that way, he would rightly be denounced as sexist for it.

bekayne

Aristotleded24 wrote:

The first rule of sexual harassment training is that it's not the intent but the effect that is relevant. 

So grabbing Gordon Brown's arm was sexual harassment?

Aristotleded24

bekayne wrote:

Aristotleded24 wrote:

The first rule of sexual harassment training is that it's not the intent but the effect that is relevant. 

So grabbing Gordon Brown's arm was sexual harassment?

The whole issue of framing behaviour as intentional or not can allow people to absolve themselves of responsibility by saying it was not their "intention."

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Here is the House rule on Trudeau's behaviour of grabbing the Opposition Whip because he didn't like how fast he was moving and elbowing another MP in the process of that physical intimidation. I think he should be charged with contempt of parliament.

House of Commons Procedure and PracticeSecond Edition, 2009 wrote:

Members of Parliament, by the nature of their office and the variety of work they are called upon to perform, come into contact with a wide range of individuals and groups. Members can, therefore, be subject to all manner of interference, obstruction and influences. Maingot states:

Members are entitled to go about their parliamentary business undisturbed. The assaulting, menacing, or insulting of any Member on the floor of the House or while he is coming or going to or from the House, or on account of his behaviour during a proceeding in Parliament, is a violation of the rights of Parliament. Any form of intimidation … of a person for or on account of his behaviour during a proceeding in Parliament could amount to contempt.[218]

http://www.parl.gc.ca/procedure-book-livre/document.aspx?sbdid=abbc077a-...

 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Trudeau grabbing Gord Brown was an assault and a breach of long standing tradional parliamentary rules, his elbowing Ruth seemed to be an unintentional by product of that assault but by doing that and not being aware of her presence he has created an agressive male dominated workplace where she might rightly fear for her safety. 

Here is who he reminds me of. The sheen is coming off his Crown.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QB1dJeMtb08

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

OK, I've watched the video three times. It is clear Trudeau had only one thing on his mind, getting the vote done. He acted like a petulant child.

I'd say the REB was "collateral damage". But I'm not sure if Trudeau saw her or saw her and didn't care. I'm inclined to think, given how he walked over, that he didn't care. Whether or not he inteneted to assult REB, he did anyway. My training in the CF regarding Sexual Harrassment is it DOES NOT MATTER what the person accused of sexual harrassment thinks. It ONLY matters what the victims thinks. All of my training on this confirmed this point over and over. In the CF, the issue is investigated and action taken. This concept of how the victim preceives the act is completly lost by many on this board who seem to think that this FACT of how Sexual Harrassment is ACTUALLY AJUDACTED IN REAL LIFE doesn't matter because its only the Government.

Trudeau clearly acted like a little child who wanted his way. It is a manifestation of his true, "Royal" temperment. He IS Justin Trudeau after all, King, er, Prime Minister of Canada.

I think it is VERY telling that not one LPC partisan on this board has posted yet in this thread. This is CLEARLY an embrassment to them, and something I'm sure they wish would go away.

I'd ask you LPC types, is it OK for Junior to act like this because after all, "it was only a NDP Female MP", who was assulted, inadvertently or otherwise.

However, I'd say this IS going to blow over for Junior. My left leaning girlfriend, a LPC voter, thinks the NDP caused this. And, I think that over all, the vast majority of Canadians either will not care, or if they note this, will say it was an accident, move on, or that the NDP is to blame. It doesn't help him,  but the shine is far from coming off.

It DOES, however, reveral the true nature of this man's character. But, when its all said and done, he's just another LPC PM throwing his weight around. NOTHING happened to Chretien following "the Shawinigan Handshake", incident. No one cares. This will probablly end up the same way. The only ones who will cheer this outcome will be LPC partisans, who see their "Dear Leader", as yet again the victim. He's ALWAYS the victim.

The real victims are Canadian Women, who will once again see their real concerns regarding equality in society cast aside, the Canadian Body Poilitic,  and Canadian Democracy.

Yes, I've said before how much contempt I have for Trudeau. For those who might, don't even bother trying to attack me for going after Junior. His actions speak louder than words; I didn't force him to act like a child and a bully. He did it HIMSELF!

Grow up son!

bekayne

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Here is the House rule on Trudeau's behaviour of grabbing the Opposition Whip because he didn't like how fast he was moving and elbowing another MP in the process of that physical intimidation. I think he should be charged with contempt of parliament.

House of Commons Procedure and PracticeSecond Edition, 2009 wrote:

Members of Parliament, by the nature of their office and the variety of work they are called upon to perform, come into contact with a wide range of individuals and groups. Members can, therefore, be subject to all manner of interference, obstruction and influences. Maingot states:

Members are entitled to go about their parliamentary business undisturbed. The assaulting, menacing, or insulting of any Member on the floor of the House or while he is coming or going to or from the House, or on account of his behaviour during a proceeding in Parliament, is a violation of the rights of Parliament. Any form of intimidation … of a person for or on account of his behaviour during a proceeding in Parliament could amount to contempt.[218]

http://www.parl.gc.ca/procedure-book-livre/document.aspx?sbdid=abbc077a-...

 

In your opinion, how does it compare to this incident?

http://pgnewspapers.pgpl.ca/fedora/repository/pgc:1990-03-21/-/Prince%20...

lagatta

bekayne, I have a really hard time getting that archive to work.

No, it isn't going to end trudeamania.2 but it does erode a bit of the shiny happy people gloss. Trudeau is 44; bout time for him to act like an adult. At Ruth Brosseau's facebook page, some lib posters are saying that it was her fault...

Glad as I am to be rid of the chainsaw massacre Con crew, I've been getting mightily sick of Prince Justin the perfect family sheen. I hate that type of politics.

Paladin1

Arthur I thought that was a great post. I highlighted a few points below

Arthur Cramer wrote:

 It is clear Trudeau had only one thing on his mind, getting the vote done. He acted like a petulant child.

Trudeau clearly acted like a little child who wanted his way. It is a manifestation of his true, "Royal" temperment. He IS Justin Trudeau after all, King, er, Prime Minister of Canada.

However, I'd say this IS going to blow over for Junior.

I think you're right on the money. It's a glimpse at his true temperment and that's a temperment we as Canadians fostered. He's riding on a wave of knowledge that he can do whatever the fuck he wants.

I mean he studied a wikipedia page on computers then pretty much made a reporter ask him about it where he rhymed off his caged and practiced answer then social media went wild over how fucking smart he is. Some people seen through it but most didn't seem to care, more fluff for their hero.

He's going to apologise some more, apologists will make up excuses for his behavior and we'll be bombarded with more carefuly crafted images (by expensive specialists). If you or I elbowed and grabbed someone like that? We're looking at a charge, possible jail time.

 

quizzical

Arthur Cramer wrote:
However, I'd say this IS going to blow over for Junior. My left leaning girlfriend, a LPC voter, thinks the NDP caused this. And, I think that over all, the vast majority of Canadians either will not care, or if they note this, will say it was an accident, move on, or that the NDP is to blame. It doesn't help him,  but the shine is far from coming off.

wow you would date someone who  victim blames and can't see what the Liberals are?

i guess women wearing short skirts are to be blammed for being raped too by her?

 

quizzical

bekayne wrote:
kropotkin1951 wrote:
Here is the House rule on Trudeau's behaviour of grabbing the Opposition Whip because he didn't like how fast he was moving and elbowing another MP in the process of that physical intimidation. I think he should be charged with contempt of parliament.

House of Commons Procedure and PracticeSecond Edition, 2009 wrote:

Members of Parliament, by the nature of their office and the variety of work they are called upon to perform, come into contact with a wide range of individuals and groups. Members can, therefore, be subject to all manner of interference, obstruction and influences. Maingot states:

Members are entitled to go about their parliamentary business undisturbed. The assaulting, menacing, or insulting of any Member on the floor of the House or while he is coming or going to or from the House, or on account of his behaviour during a proceeding in Parliament, is a violation of the rights of Parliament. Any form of intimidation … of a person for or on account of his behaviour during a proceeding in Parliament could amount to contempt.[218]

">http://www.parl.gc.ca/procedure-book-livre/document.aspx?sbdid=abbc077a-...

In your opinion, how does it compare to this incident?

">http://pgnewspapers.pgpl.ca/fedora/repository/pgc:1990-03-21/-/Prince%20...

history showed what happened to Joe Clark.

and why are you trying to deflect against Justin's battering actions? own them ffs

mark_alfred

Disgusting.  That's what happens when you have a former bouncer as PM.

Basement Dweller

I know I shouldn't be reading the CBC discussion boards, for the good of my health, but I can't believe how many Liberals are trying to justify (Justinify?) what Trudeau did. At least, the Liberal MPS looked pissed off with Trudeau when he was making his "apology".

mark_alfred

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/.../what.../article30089817/

Quote:
When people accuse the government of “riding roughshod” over the opposition, or of “manhandling” their opponents, they usually mean it metaphorically. But on Wednesday night, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, annoyed by a vote that was all of about 30 seconds late in starting, and impatient with an opposition that appeared to be stalling, abruptly jumped up, raced down the aisle of the House of Commons, and literally manhandled the Official Opposition Whip, Gordon Brown, grabbing him and shoving him toward his seat.

To get at the surprised Mr. Brown, the PM pushed aside some NDP MPs who were in his path, notably Ruth Ellen Brosseau, whom he elbowed in the chest, apparently by accident. He did all this while allegedly telling those same NDP MPs to “get the fuck out of the way.”

Caissa

This is a bloody non-issue. He apologized. It's time for H of C to move on with doing its job.

Basement Dweller

Caissa wrote:

This is a bloody non-issue. He apologized. It's time for H of C to move on with doing its job.

Did you watch the video of the "apology"? Did that seem like a real apology to you? He should have left out the Justinification.

Caissa

The NDP Mps were clearly blocking the Conservatie Whip. As an NDP member, I am ashamed of the behaviour of my party.

Cortina

The only unParliamentary behaviour was that of the NDP!  Blocking someone's path is actually assault, just as much as physically restraining someone.  Ruth-Ellen Brosseau ought to apologize and then resign.  The same goes for Mulcair: we don't need right-wingers like Brosseau and Mulcair in the party any more.

That said, it is NOT the PM's job to act like a clumsy butler!  Meditate a bit if the opposition are impeding Parliamentary function.

Notalib

Wait a minute....

A former barmaid may have gotten an elbow in the chest ( cant confirm with video) in a wound up crowded space she injected herself into, and the PM must resign. However the NDP leader gets hammered in an election and turfed by over 50% of his own party at convention but he should stay on?!

Sadly, the NDP has become so outwardly hypocritical and out of touch I am not sure there is much of a future for them. This display is disgusting, but it has nothing to do with the PM's behaviour who has clearly allowed NDP antics to get under his skin in the last while.

 

Stockholm

Caissa wrote:

The NDP Mps were clearly blocking the Conservatie Whip. As an NDP member, I am ashamed of the behaviour of my party.

The Conservative whip Brown didn't seem to feel he was being blocked at all and he certainly didn't ask Trudeau to "rescue" him. on the contrary the Tory whip says he told Trudeau "get your hands off of me!"

Stockholm

Notalib wrote:

A former barmaid may have gotten an elbow in the chest ( cant confirm with video) in a wound up crowded space she injected herself into, and the PM must resign. However the NDP leader gets hammered in an election and turfed by over 50% of his own party at convention but he should stay on?!

What a revolting comment. First of all why do you feel the need to gratuitously describe Ruth Ellen Brosseau as a 'former barmaid" - is that your attempt to denigrate and belittle her and to imply that her perspective is less valid than any other MPs??

I have not heard anyone from the NDP demand that Trudeau resign as PM - so i', not sure what straw dog you are trying to knock down...and Mulcair is not staying on - he lost the leadership review and a campaign is now underway to repalce him as leader.

Basement Dweller

Brown could have walked around the crowd if he wanted to. Afterwards, his comments were about Trudeau's behaviour, not the NDP MPs.

Caissa

Did he say he didn't feel blocked? The brouhaha is a joke. Time for MPs to get some sense of perspective.

Notalib

Stockholm wrote:

Notalib wrote:

A former barmaid may have gotten an elbow in the chest ( cant confirm with video) in a wound up crowded space she injected herself into, and the PM must resign. However the NDP leader gets hammered in an election and turfed by over 50% of his own party at convention but he should stay on?!

What a revolting comment. First of all why do you feel the need to gratuitously describe Ruth Ellen Brosseau as a 'former barmaid" - is that your attempt to denigrate and belittle her and to imply that her perspective is less valid than any other MPs??

I have not heard anyone from the NDP demand that Trudeau resign as PM - so i', not sure what straw dog you are trying to knock down...and Mulcair is not staying on - he lost the leadership review and a campaign is now underway to repalce him as leader.

 

This board is rife with demands for his resignation, I was responding to that.

Moreover, I was referring to REB's former career simply for context. REB claimed it was a tragic experience, but back in the day when I hung around bars elbows in crowded spaces where pretty much part of the daily grind for barmaids.

I like REB, I could careless that she was a former barmaid and campaigned from Vegas, and I don't believe it has any negative bearing on her political career. I just find the claims of the altercation being tramautic with someone with her former experience in that occupation to be a stretch of the imagination and the demands for resignation to be hypocritical and out of touch with the NDP leaders own actions.

 

quizzical

can tell who voted Liberal here lmaoooooo

i'd be embarassed too if i'd made a stupid choice like voting Liberal for change. just sayin.

but i guess you got change and something Harper never did.

Stockholm

1. A handful of anonymous people posting on babble are not "the NDP"

2. Your implication that REB should be used to being elbowed in the chest because she once worked in a bar is totally out of line. Are you also going to tell us that when she worked in a bar she was likely gropped and pinched by drunk male patrons and therefore it should be "no big deal" for her if she was sexually assaulted.

You should be suspended from this board for making such a mysoginistic comment

Stockholm

quizzical wrote:

can tell who voted Liberal here lmaoooooo

i'd be embarassed too if i'd made a stupid choice like voting Liberal for change. just sayin.

but i guess you got change and something Harper never did.

Yes its ironic how the person who calls him or herself "notalib" is actually the most partisan Liberal apologist ever to post here!

Basement Dweller

Notalib wrote:

Moreover, I was referring to REB's former career simply for context. REB claimed it was a tragic experience, but back in the day when I hung around bars elbows in crowded spaces where pretty much part of the daily grind for barmaids.

I like REB, I could careless that she was a former barmaid and campaigned from Vegas, and I don't believe it has any negative bearing on her political career. I just find the claims of the altercation being tramautic with someone with her former experience in that occupation to be a stretch of the imagination and the demands for resignation to be hypocritical and out of touch with the NDP leaders own actions.

How can you say how REB should react to unwanted physical contact? If she did have past traumatic experiences in the workplace, which can happen in drinking establishments, maybe this affects her more than others? Who knows? Only REB.

Edit: changed "respond" to "react"

6079_Smith_W

A breakdown of what happened, and why:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/wherry-trudeau-elbow-1.3588608

Quote:

Rising after the prime minister's first apology, Regan helpfully clarified that members were not to "manhandle" other members. But more important was what he said immediately before that.

"Ministers ought to know, first of all, if one whip walks down before the other, and takes their seat, either whip, the Speaker then reads the question and the voting process begins," he said. "Nothing else is required."

In other words, Gord Brown's ability to walk down the aisle should have been of no consequence, at least if Andrew Leslie had taken his seat. And, thus, everything that ensued was entirely unnecessary.

The worst missteps might be those that were avoidable.

 

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Notalib wrote:

Wait a minute....

A former barmaid

A "former barmaid"? Really? That is first of all, unbeieveably openly and contemptously, sexist. It is also fully disrespectful and dismissive of REB as a person.

Well a least you didn't call her a "wench" Bravo!

quizzical

sooooo Justin was pissy about being embarassed from almost losing a vote.....and this is what Canada gets.

and wtf is this about this Bill the Liberals want passed which gives them powers to control the House well beyond what Harper would've ever considered? i don't know much other than my mom's rants about Trudeaus and marshall law.

 

quizzical

Stockholm wrote:
quizzical wrote:
can tell who voted Liberal here lmaoooooo

i'd be embarassed too if i'd made a stupid choice like voting Liberal for change. just sayin.

but i guess you got change and something Harper never did.

Yes its ironic how the person who calls him or herself "notalib" is actually the most partisan Liberal apologist ever to post here!

there's more than notalib minimizing Justin's assaults as 'nothing to see here move along' and blamming the NDP is just fkn hilarious. it's like blamming women who get raped for wearing too sexy of clothing or a man blamming a women it was her fault he had to hit her.

nobody made Justin get up and storm across the HoC and grab someone. he did it all by himself after literally a 10 second wait.

 

Misfit

If REB says she was hurt in any way by the elbow incident, then it is her own assessment of how the situation impacted her that counts and no one else's. It is up to us to stop and listen to REB and how she felt about what happened. And REB was not at fault for the elbow blow to her because she was on the floor at the time. This analogy is akin to blaming all women for assaults against them because the women happened to be where they were to be assaulted. These Trudeau deflectors are trying to place the blame for the PM's actions on everyone else but where it belongs, solely with the PM.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Misfit wrote:
If REB says she was hurt in any way by the elbow incident, then it is her own assessment of how the situation impacted her that counts and no one else's. It is up to us to stop and listen to REB and how she felt about what happened. And REB was not at fault for the elbow blow to her because she was on the floor at the time. This analogy is akin to blaming all women for assaults against them because the women happened to be where they were to be assaulted. These Trudeau deflectors are trying to place the blame for the PM's actions on everyone else but where it belongs, solely with the PM.

You NAILED IT! As I said above, in the Federal Government, these situations are assessed based on how the VICTIM feels. That is the determinant on whether a complaint is assessed as a Harrassment complaint. The apologists for Trudeau on this board are ignoring this FACT. If you want to argue it, argue with the Human Rights Commission. That's YOUR problem. Certainly NOT, REB's!

felixr

What do people make of Mulcair bellowing at Trudeau "what kind of man elbows a woman?" after the incident went down?

nicky

For me Justin's verbal intervention is as telling as his physical intervention. He is quoted as saying something to the effect of "get out of my fucking way."

Very revealing about his arrogance and sense of entitlement. 

Although his conduct has its apologists here it is significant that not even Pondering seems to be rising to his defence.

 

felixr

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Trudeau grabbing Gord Brown was an assault and a breach of long standing tradional parliamentary rules, his elbowing Ruth seemed to be an unintentional by product of that assault but by doing that and not being aware of her presence he has created an agressive male dominated workplace where she might rightly fear for her safety. 

Here is who he reminds me of. The sheen is coming off his Crown.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QB1dJeMtb08

Not a bad analogy. The NDP set Trudeau up by delaying the vote, he took the bait, got aggresive, and failed spectacularly as a leader and parliamentarian. He embarassed himself and his party. I wonder what his parenting skills are like.

Paladin1

Caissa wrote:

This is a bloody non-issue. He apologized. It's time for H of C to move on with doing its job.

A non-issue in his mind perhaps. Most of us would face legal action.

Notalib wrote:

Wait a minute....

A former barmaid

Ya she should be used to it. Maybe the Pm could throw some beer in her face while he's at it.

 

Notalib wrote:

 

This board is rife with demands for his resignation, I was responding to that.

That's standard for everything in politics anytime someone does something.

 

Paladin1

quizzical wrote:

Stockholm wrote:
quizzical wrote:
can tell who voted Liberal here lmaoooooo

i'd be embarassed too if i'd made a stupid choice like voting Liberal for change. just sayin.

but i guess you got change and something Harper never did.

Yes its ironic how the person who calls him or herself "notalib" is actually the most partisan Liberal apologist ever to post here!

there's more than notalib minimizing Justin's assaults as 'nothing to see here move along' and blamming the NDP is just fkn hilarious. it's like blamming women who get raped for wearing too sexy of clothing or a man blamming a women it was her fault he had to hit her.

nobody made Justin get up and storm across the HoC and grab someone. he did it all by himself after literally a 10 second wait.

 

 

Great observations and post Quizzical. 

I don't think most mean realize how painful getting hit in the breast for a woman can be.

Basement Dweller

I am reading Mercedes Stephenson's Twitter. Apparently Ambrose said Trudeau rolls his eyes and sticks his tongue out at the opposition.

This one incident isn't going to sink Trudeau, but if he gets a reputation for childlike behaviour it is going to do him serious damage.

Caissa

Paladin 1: There is not a Crown Attorney in the country that would press charges based on that video evidence, if it happened outside of the H of C.

Let's debate how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

ETA: The Beaverton has spoofed it.

http://www.thebeaverton.com/national/item/2690-entire-ndp-caucus-arrive-in-neck-braces-wheelchairs-to-house-of-commons-after-trudeau-s-assault

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Aristotleded24 wrote:
The first rule of sexual harassment training is that it's not the intent but the effect that is relevant. ...

The whole issue of framing behaviour as intentional or not can allow people to absolve themselves of responsibility by saying it was not their "intention."

Thanks, that's very helpful. I've often thought about the thuggish practice of hockey violence apologists to focus on "intent" in all acts of egregious, but common, violence in the sport. My typical reaction has been to note how difficult it is, even in a court of law, to determine intent, and I thought that that was the whole point of apologists of hockey violence - to muddy the waters.

But I see that it is more than that. Not just to muddy the waters but also to absolve those who carry out acts of violence and act as cheerleaders for same.

Paladin1

Bubbles was charged on less evidence Laughing

 

Does what Trudeau did to either MP constitute asassault?

Quote:

http://www.lawyers.ca/statutes/criminal_code_of_canada_assault.htm

265. (1) A person commits an assault when

(a) without the consent of another person, he applies force intentionally to that other person, directly or indirectly;

(b) he attempts or threatens, by an act or a gesture, to apply force to another person, if he has, or causes that other person to believe on reasonable grounds that he has, present ability to effect his purpose; or

 

Reading the above if I was in a grocery store and I wanted to move someone out of the way and grabbed their arm and started moving them, elbowing someone else in the process, I would be charged with assault. (whether or not it's dropped is another matter).

 

al-Qa'bong

Apparently the fuddle doesn't fall far from the duddle.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

al-Qa'bong wrote:

Apparently the fuddle doesn't fall far from the duddle.

An al-Qa'bong sighting. Good to know your still lurking in the background.

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