Justin Trudeau elbows Ruth Ellen Brosseau

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mark_alfred
Basement Dweller

"This is not a political post." = "I'm not racist but..."

Pondering

The vast majority of Canadians are not affiliated with any political party. Few decide who they are going to vote for until just before the election. That doesn't mean they don't have opinions on individual topics like C-51. Being highly condemning of C-51 did not mean the individuals were anti-Liberal. Only months later people who were strongly opposed to C-51 went on to vote Liberal.

The NDP went from first place to last place in only 3 months.

"This is not a political post." = "I'm not racist but..."

So now all those people who voted for Trudeau are the equivalent of racists just dissing the NDP out of partisanship because they are on team Trudeau now so you can dismiss their opinions.

The reason the NDP made such a stink over this is because they are trying to win back supporters who switched to Trudeau, many after the election. They are trying to win them back by demonizing Trudeau. This is bound to fail because Trudeau isn't a demon. Instead it is backfiring on the NDP.

The problem is not that the NDP is playing politics it is that they seemingly have no clue how to do it successfully.

 

mark_alfred

Pondering, there's only a post about motion-6 on the NDP site (see below).  There's nothing about Trudeau's behaviour on the NDP's site. 

http://www.ndp.ca/news/ndp-forces-reversal-liberal-power-grab

I personally feel there should be.  But, regardless, contrary to your statement above, there's no focus by the NDP on Trudeau's behaviour that I've seen.  Right now the NDP are focussing on the issue of the Liberals approving GM salmon (link).

The Conservatives, by contrast, did issue a statement:  http://www.conservative.ca/statement-by-the-leader-of-the-official-oppos...

But, the Conservatives also are not overly focussed on it.  That said, I agree with Ambrose's statement.

Misfit Misfit's picture

I agree with Rona Ambrose 100%. What a sensible and well written statement. I never thought I would say that about the Conservative party, but their position has left me feeling very impressed.

quizzical

yup. read it.

tff when the CPC is more rational and less sexist than Liberal supporters. even more funny when a professed feminist is an apologist for violence and victim blames.

willing to blow your credibility, as many have done here, over Justin's piss ant actions is telling.

Unionist

Yeah, Rona Ambrose is a great champion of women's rights - more misogynist than Stephen Harper, if memory serves.

[url=http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/critics-demand-status-of-women-... sign petition calling for status of women minister’s job after abortion vote[/url]

Quote:

By going against party wishes and voting to re-evaluate Canadian policy on where personhood begins, Rona Ambrose, minister of state for the status of women, has sparked not only a backlash, but a debate over whether women can both champion women’s rights and yet have nuanced views about abortion.

Ms. Ambrose faced calls for her resignation and a barrage of criticism Thursday after standing up in support of M-312, a private member’s motion that would have struck a committee to study parts of the Criminal Code that establish when a fetus becomes a legal person. [...]

The Minister has long been on ARCC’s list of anti-choice MPs in part because she voted for Bill C-484 or the Unborn Victims of Crime Act which would have made it a crime to injure a fetus through an illegal assault against the mother — even though Prime Minister Stephen Harper said even then he did not want to re-open the abortion debate.

But as long as she takes partisan advantage of this 30-second incident to condemn Justin Trudeau... all is forgiven.

What a crock.

Basement Dweller

Quote:

"This is not a political post." = "I'm not racist but..."

When I hear statements like that, I know someone is being deceptive or in denial. That is all.

quizzical

who said a fkn word about forgiveness unionist? exaggerate much?

Stockholm

Similarly when you see a social media posting that starts with "I've voted NDP all my life but..." You know the person is actually a partisan Liberal likely on the government payroll working on parliament Hill with a little too much free time in their hands!

Geoff

The real issue, I think, is about King Justin trying to pull a Harper by shutting down debate and treating the opposition as a mere nuisance to be ignored as much as possible. That narrative will have more traction than debating whether or not Trudeau was deliberately trying to injure REB.

No one came out of the fracas looking very good, so we're better off focusing on the broader political implications of the government's approach to democracy and the rules of the House of Commons. The Libs are starting to look like the gang they replaced in October. What happened to sunny ways? There's the story.

voice of the damned

deleted for relevance

mark_alfred

Re:  post #161

Yes, I think you're onto something here.  That's an aspect that should be looked at more deeply.

Re:  post #160

Yes.

Debater
mark_alfred

Well, maybe pigs can fly.  The Toronto Star actually published an article critical of the Liberals:

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/05/19/liberals-had-been-elbows-...

Quote:
The Trudeau government's disdain of anything in its way finally manifested itself in the ugliest of ways.

Strip away the contrition, the high dudgeon and the blinkered Liberal apologists suggesting we should just get past the sorry spectacle in the House of Commons this week and you are left with an unassailable truth.

The Justin Trudeau Liberals have been treating the Commons as an annoyance, an inconvenient necessity that merely gets in the way of the Liberal show and its ever-burgeoning approval rating.

This is the place where they stack committees on electoral reform, limit debate because they have mismanaged their legislative agenda, and almost — incredibly — lose a vote to an old parliamentary trick when too few Liberals bothered to show up for work.

Before Wednesday’s fracas, the Liberals had doubled down with a threatened motion that all but neutered the opposition, giving government ministers and parliamentary secretaries full control of the timing of debate.

After Trudeau’s latest apologies Thursday morning, his government backed down on that motion in the afternoon.

[..]

The sense is that opposing views are ignored by this government, enamoured as it is by its public standing. That had spread to the Commons and Trudeau’s actions were the extreme manifestation of a prime minister and a government used to getting its way, on its terms and timetable.

Trudeau’s apology appeared sincere and should be accepted by all concerned.

He has a huge cache of political capital. No one should underestimate how much of that capital he just spent.

Debater

Mark, the Toronto Star regularly publishes columns by Tim Harper & Chantal Hébert that are critical of the Liberals.

mark_alfred

Debater wrote:

Mark, the Toronto Star regularly publishes columns by Tim Harper & Chantal Hébert that are critical of the Liberals.

Debater, what do you think of Harper's article?

Debater

I think Tim Harper is on the same wavelength as Chantal Hébert.

They both basically cover the same ground.  They point out the same issue -- that over the past several weeks, the Liberals had become increasingly uncooperative and combative in their handling of the assisted dying legislation, as well as the way they have been handling the electoral reform file.

Hébert refers to the Liberals as "ham-fisted" in her column.

mark_alfred

The thing about this is it was so unnecessary.  Here's a quote from the Speaker right after the incident,

The Speaker wrote:
Members ought to know, first of all, that if one whip walks down before the other and takes his or her seat, and that is either whip, the Speaker then reads the question and the voting process begins. Nothing else is required. That is what happens. That has happened before.

So, it didn't matter if Brown was there or not.  Leslie, the Liberal whip, simply could have sat down after bowing to the Speaker and the vote would have started.  Trudeau unnecessarily chose to turn this into a big drama with his bizarre actions.

http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?Language=E&Mode...

takeitslowly

trudeau never had to sit in the house of common for long..his behaviour doesnt suprise me. the only thing he did after being elected as pm is photo-ops and grandstanding.. its always about him. he has to be the centre of attention of everything, so he feels left out and bored and frustrated during the house of common procedure..and he had to insert himself . as he often does with photo ops  of him being a boxer , he must be so happy he is in japan now, he doesnt need to sit in the boring hout ose common with the common mps..hes so special, trudeau. i have never felt so sick and disgusted at such an entitled person being the pm..

my level of disgust at the spoiled king is severe enough that i am considering  voting for the conservative (for the first time in my life) next election as i am sure the ndp is completely over.

Aristotleded24

takeitslowly wrote:
my level of disgust at the spoiled king is severe enough that i am considering  voting for the conservative (for the first time in my life) next election as i am sure the ndp is completely over.

I hear you. If ranked balloting ever goes through, I would also seriously consider ranking the Conservatives as my second choice to stop the Liberals if I had to.

Orange Crushed

I thought some Rabblers might be interested in this take on it: 

 

http://thetyee.ca/News/2016/05/19/Parliamentary-Brawl-101/

 

The most interesting part of it, I thought, was how this editorial tries to describe the event in such flat neutral tones that it displays a distinct bias towards the Liberals version of events. 

 

"Trudeau was agitated that Conservative whip Gordon Brown could not get past a bulge of NDP MPs, who appeared to be impeding him from sitting down for a vote on Canada's assisted dying legislation. 

Trudeau decided he'd had enough of the scene and crossed the floor to escort Brown to the safety and legislative authority of his seat.

In doing so, as video of the incident shows, he bumped into and elbowed NDP MP Ruth-Ellen Brosseau in the chest.

(This makes it appear that Trudeau was just reacting to a partisan fracas and intervening on their behalf, something even Brown himself has stated wasn't the situation, then makes it clear that the contact was undisputably accidental -which it probably was-probably- even though he also showed no regard for Brosseau's own position in the scrum)

When Trudeau returned to try to speak to (presumably) Brosseau, Mulcair started yelling, as did everyone else, and nearby benches cleared before the two political heavyweights were pulled apart.

(The blame is then shifted to Mulcair -presumed- over reaction, despite his moving towards Brosseau again -as he was just going back to apologise-presumably)

MPs then traded barbs the old fashioned way -- from a safe distance in their seats.

After two apologies Wednesday night Trudeau made a third, more formal and prepared apology for the incident on Thursday morning after numerous MPs describe how what transpired "impacted" them.

(Trudeau is then shown to be repeatedly contrite -on his own conscience no doubt- while the pain and embarrassment caused is downplayed by quote-unquote how what transpired "impacted" them)

So, how did we get here?"

 

Because the Liberals were trying to remove long standing procedural rights granted to the Opposition, moves even Harper didn't attempt, in his rush to push their legislation through.  This is correctly framed as the context but only in the vaguest terms of what those rights are and only from partisan sources on either end of the Parliamentary spectrum. 

He then finishes off asking if it's all an Exaggeration?  Giving Liberal House Leader the chance to downplay that as well.  They never intended to strip powers from the sitting Opposition but only wanted to speed up the process while ensuring everyones right to speak.   

But:

 

"After Trudeau's apology Thursday, NDP MP Linda Duncan asked if Trudeau would move to rescind the attempt to strip opposition parties of their powers to slow or stall legislation.

"It's important for all of us here to understand why things have become so heated in this chamber," Duncan said. "I'm wondering if, as part of his apology, he will consider reversing the decision to take away our rights and privileges so we may all participate here equally."

In his response Trudeau didn't address Duncan's concerns directly, but he did apologize again."

 

This kind of reporting, even from usually left-of-centre sources, might explain why the general public seems to be taking the Liberal spin on "Elbow-gate".   This isn't a small tempest from the perspective of what started it. 

I do wish every potential political sin wasn't described as Something or other-Gate though.  Watergate was such a long time ago. 

 

White Cat White Cat's picture

Debater wrote:

I think Tim Harper is on the same wavelength as Chantal Hébert.

They both basically cover the same ground.  They point out the same issue -- that over the past several weeks, the Liberals had become increasingly uncooperative and combative in their handling of the assisted dying legislation, as well as the way they have been handling the electoral reform file.

Hébert refers to the Liberals as "ham-fisted" in her column.

They are critical of how Trudeau is handling the electoral reform file?? As in: they are both pro-FPTP hacks who are trying to kill Trudeau's electoral reform initiative on behalf of their establishment masters.

Interesting how the NDP is on the same side as the establishment on electoral reform. What they don't seem to get is that the establishment will get something out of it — everything out of it, in fact. They will get to keep FPTP and their stranglehold over our democracy. This while the NDP walks away with a big fat nothing.

Jesus, even the Liberals will walk away with everything that fancies their partisan ambitions: they will continue to be entitled to the center-left vote without ever having to represent it; they will continue to be Canada's natural governing party; they will continue to get absolute corrupt power the half of the time the Cons don't have it.

Here are a couple of good rules of thumb. Don't sleep with dogs and you won't wake up with fleas. Don't get in bed with wolves and you won't get your throat ripped out in your sleep.

quizzical

" same side as the establisment"

lololol another fabrication white cat. do you Liberals never get tired of trying to keep your bs straight?

 

Unionist

This is a great dialogue, but please see my post in the other thread.

Orange Crushed

White Cat wrote:

Debater wrote:

I think Tim Harper is on the same wavelength as Chantal Hébert.

They both basically cover the same ground.  They point out the same issue -- that over the past several weeks, the Liberals had become increasingly uncooperative and combative in their handling of the assisted dying legislation, as well as the way they have been handling the electoral reform file.

Hébert refers to the Liberals as "ham-fisted" in her column.

They are critical of how Trudeau is handling the electoral reform file?? As in: they are both pro-FPTP hacks who are trying to kill Trudeau's electoral reform initiative on behalf of their establishment masters.

Interesting how the NDP is on the same side as the establishment on electoral reform. What they don't seem to get is that the establishment will get something out of it — everything out of it, in fact. They will get to keep FPTP and their stranglehold over our democracy. This while the NDP walks away with a big fat nothing.

Jesus, even the Liberals will walk away with everything that fancies their partisan ambitions: they will continue to be entitled to the center-left vote without ever having to represent it; they will continue to be Canada's natural governing party; they will continue to get absolute corrupt power the half of the time the Cons don't have it.

Here are a couple of good rules of thumb. Don't sleep with dogs and you won't wake up with fleas. Don't get in bed with wolves and you won't get your throat ripped out in your sleep.

 

What an odd post.  Turning their general observations into hidden motives over voting systems, then turning it again on how it's the NDP's fault for not going along with the Liberal's prefered plan for reform....as it will only benefit the Liberals stranglehold on Parliament??   Good advice about not getting in bed with dogs or wolves.  <shrug>  

Orange Crushed

Nice new Rabble poll making light of the whole kerfuffle BTW.  

lagatta

I would never vote for the Liberals or the Cons (class line, eh?) but I think it is important to remember the serious harm the Harper régime did not only to democracy but also to science and to the funding of many important social and cultural programmes. The saccage created by Harper and his crew are part of the explanation of the absurd level of adulation of the Trudeau government. I don't like adulation of anyone: not the NDP, the Greens or even Québec solidaire. Some Trudeau fans have called me a "hater" for that reason. Which is patently absurd: living a few minutes' walk south of his riding, I actually "know" Justin superficially as a member of community associations in Villeray. I've always said hello, made a bit of small talk when appropriate.

mark_alfred

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-elbow-all-party-committee-1.3609147

Opposition drops inquiry to Justin Trudeau's 'elbowgate' incident following Brosseau's request that it be dropped.

Quote:

Brosseau wrote that the prime minister's "inappropriate, physical intervention" was not acceptable in any workplace, but she accepts Trudeau's "comprehensive" apology and asked that the committee drop the issue.

"The details of the unprecedented physical interaction between the prime minister and members of the opposition are well documented ... it left many members stunned and raised important questions about the conduct of the prime minister in a House that was already confronted with unprecedented government measures to limit debate.

"It is my sincere hope that all members will work to ensure that we never see this conduct repeated and also that we take this opportunity to recommit to improving the tone of debate in Parliament," she wrote.

Unionist

Unionist wrote:

JKR wrote:

Saying nothing might be a great way to deal with posts that are designed to irritate people?

100% agree. 150%. Ignoring provocations works wonders.

Building on that idea, my fervent wish is that everyone in Canada, on all "sides", would collectively forget that 30-second incident in the House. The more said about it, the worse it will be. There are literally no "teachable moments" here. 

Just repeating my initial impressions.

quizzical

i think this was agreed to before aka the dropping of motion 6.

but let's not talk about it!!!!!

let's all continue ignoring it. pretend a despot action, unheard of by even Harper, didn't  almost happen.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

In all of this, the most amazing thing is how Trudeau came out smelling like roses while REB, the NDP, and Mulcair are facing the wrath of the Canadian voting public. All this has done is create even more good will for Trudeau. Canadians are truly, stupid, brain hollow, fools.

takeitslowly

canadians dont care about the political process, they want to complain but they also dont mind what the liberals do, they can do anything as far as the public is concerned because majority governments are supposed to be a dictatorship, why do we even have the media, except for sensational and entertainment news pretending to be politically related

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

takeitslowly wrote:

canadians dont care about the political process, they want to complain but they also dont mind what the liberals do, they can do anything as far as the public is concerned because majority governments are supposed to be a dictatorship, why do we even have the media, except for sensational and entertainment news pretending to be politically related

Regarding the media, its even worse than that. There is a real incestuous relationship that exists between the media and establishment politicians in the Lib and Tory parties. They travel in the same, elite, smug, unaware, and tone deaf signals. All you have to do for proof is watch that joke on CBC that passes for "Canada's top rated political panelt'. They spend all their time talking to each other, complimenting themselves and revelling in how much smarter they are than the rest of us. Its pathetic!

Orange Crushed

Unionist wrote:

Unionist wrote:

JKR wrote:

Saying nothing might be a great way to deal with posts that are designed to irritate people?

100% agree. 150%. Ignoring provocations works wonders.

Building on that idea, my fervent wish is that everyone in Canada, on all "sides", would collectively forget that 30-second incident in the House. The more said about it, the worse it will be. There are literally no "teachable moments" here. 

Just repeating my initial impressions.

 

I disagree.  Trudeau has propogated this nice guy image since he entered the leadership ring, and the weariness of Harper's autocratic ways left the public open to his superficial appeals, so this could still damage him in the long run.  His actions leading up to this little scene show an entitled attitude, and an authoritarian streak he claims he's against.  He could easily have ignored the provocation himself in the first place, and the bill would have moved forward anyhow.  As it is the Liberals have had to disavow some of the restrictions they tried to place on the Opposition.   Whether they'll actually abandon them remains to be seen.  

Orange Crushed

Arthur Cramer wrote:

In all of this, the most amazing thing is how Trudeau came out smelling like roses while REB, the NDP, and Mulcair are facing the wrath of the Canadian voting public. All this has done is create even more good will for Trudeau. Canadians are truly, stupid, brain hollow, fools.

 

Please don't say that.  Most Canadians have been the victims of the most thorough and sophisticated propoganda campaign in history.  The Soviet and American models pale in comparison.  It's highly probable that most of the vitriolic garbage online was posted by Liberal activists and operatives, with some troglodite cons joining in for the fun.  Obviously they're not particularly progressive even on low cost social issues, not if it stands between them and their divine right to rule.  

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Orange Crushed wrote:

Arthur Cramer wrote:

In all of this, the most amazing thing is how Trudeau came out smelling like roses while REB, the NDP, and Mulcair are facing the wrath of the Canadian voting public. All this has done is create even more good will for Trudeau. Canadians are truly, stupid, brain hollow, fools.

 

Please don't say that.  Most Canadians have been the victims of the most thorough and sophisticated propoganda campaign in history.  The Soviet and American models pale in comparison.  It's highly probable that most of the vitriolic garbage online was posted by Liberal activists and operatives, with some troglodite cons joining in for the fun.  Obviously they're not particularly progressive even on low cost social issues, not if it stands between them and their divine right to rule.  

They elected Trudeau, didn't they? Nope, for my money, my Countrymen (woman), for the most part, are, morons. And the saddest part of that, they're proud of it.

Unionist

Arthur Cramer wrote:

In all of this, the most amazing thing is how Trudeau came out smelling like roses while REB, the NDP, and Mulcair are facing the wrath of the Canadian voting public. All this has done is create even more good will for Trudeau. Canadians are truly, stupid, brain hollow, fools.

Well, at a certain point, progressive folks need to get a brain and learn how to avoid provocations which can only serve our enemies. Far too late, the NDP decided wisely to drop this issue. It would have been much better - and yes, much more difficult - to laugh it off at the very outset. 

mark_alfred

Tough to do in the heat of the moment, though.  Your initial reaction was that Trudeau should offer his resignation. But sure, the opposition trying too hard to capitalize on Trudeau's bizarre outburst diminished Trudeau's spectacle and refocused it on themselves.

Unionist

mark_alfred wrote:

Tough to do in the heat of the moment, though.  Your initial reaction was that Trudeau should offer his resignation.

I haven't changed my mind about that.

Quote:
But sure, the opposition trying too hard to capitalize on Trudeau's bizarre outburst diminished Trudeau's spectacle and refocused it on themselves.

And emboldened a host of filthy misogynist pigs.

On day 1, the NDP should have said, "It's all cool, let's focus on real things now." They're not capable.

Orange Crushed

I can understand some of your anger and despair Mr. Cramer, but when even genuine progressive activists keep buying into the notion that a left-of centre coalition with the neo-Liberals is the only way to defeat the neo-Conservatives then it's easy to see how the average voter with little time for politics will buy into the notion that the Liberals too are left of centre. That Trudeau is his father and his father was Pearson etc.    I believe what needs to be repeated over and over again is that the Liberals are centre-right, the Cons far right, and the vast centre-left is open to anyone who's willing and able to claim it.  It won't do the NDP any good to put down the average voter though. They may surprise you yet, another generation is coming up that faces diminishing prospects, more access to alternative media, and may be more resistant to all the old cold war rhetoric conflating socialism with communism and neo-liberalism with genuine social democracy.  Freeing up the markets, that is the rich and powerful oligarchs who dominate it, isn't the same as freeing the average worker or dispossessed, for example.  Those are the small kind of points that I think need to be impressed on people before they start to see through the decades of bs.  That's all I'm saying here.  And it'll have to be the members, not the leaders, who will have to lead on that too.   Then the leaders might have the courage to follow.  

takeitslowly

Arthur Cramer wrote:

takeitslowly wrote:

canadians dont care about the political process, they want to complain but they also dont mind what the liberals do, they can do anything as far as the public is concerned because majority governments are supposed to be a dictatorship, why do we even have the media, except for sensational and entertainment news pretending to be politically related

Regarding the media, its even worse than that. There is a real incestuous relationship that exists between the media and establishment politicians in the Lib and Tory parties. They travel in the same, elite, smug, unaware, and tone deaf signals. All you have to do for proof is watch that joke on CBC that passes for "Canada's top rated political panelt'. They spend all their time talking to each other, complimenting themselves and revelling in how much smarter they are than the rest of us. Its pathetic!

 

theres something seriously disturbing about today's news, the topic is about making the national anthemn inclusive to women, i couldnt care less, but the fact is the media is pushing this story to make sure that we are too busy debating whether if trudeau is too much of a feminist , as opposed to real issues like debating the words in the TPP agreement (not up for debate) , or the fact that the liberal refuse to accept any amendement to the assisted dying bill. its absolutely disgusting. I am completely giving up on any illusion that we will have any real democracy anytime soon

Unionist

takeitslowly wrote:

theres something seriously disturbing about today's news, the topic is about making the national anthemn inclusive to women, i couldnt care less, but the fact is the media is pushing this story to make sure that we are too busy debating whether if trudeau is too much of a feminist , as opposed to real issues like debating the words in the TPP agreement (not up for debate) , or the fact that the liberal refuse to accept any amendement to the assisted dying bill. its absolutely disgusting.

Totally agree with this.

takeitslowly

other people can play nice, i am burning all the bridges , i deleted so many of my liberal friends. Generationtrudeau is a real thing, the NDP is over. I am going to tell it like it is everyday because they dont even care about politics anyways.

Basement Dweller

Justin got a freebie. So did Chretien with the Shawinigan Handshake. Chretien never did anything like that again.

So we'll see if Justin can learn to control himself.

Misfit Misfit's picture

Listen everyone. It isn't over. As I posted earlier, bill C-51 was originally very popular. Then, gradually, the tone changed. The same change in tone can happen with this incident as well. Nothing is etched in stone. Trudeau is only six months into his mandate, and he has shown already that he has a temper and cannot take the heat. Eventually, his popularity is going to drop. And when it does, Trudeau just might find out that history may not be so kind. As it stands now, 23% of Canadians have a worse opinion of Trudeau than they had before this incident. On the surface, it does not seem like a lot, but in reality, his reputation did take a hit. It was recorded, and there will always be a segment of our population that will view this incident and Trudeau's behaviour in a negative light. And hopefully, as we gradually evolve to be less misogynistic in our ways, more people will learn to view what happened differently as well. I honestly do not believe that history is going to be kind to Justin Trudeau in this case.

mark_alfred

Yes.  People got quite defensive over their prince this time.  But the fact that not everything is as sunny as the prince proclaims it to be, regardless of whom people were assessing the blame to, did get through.  And there's certainly more challenges for this government in the future.  People may not be quite so defensive of the prince in the future.

voice of the damned

Misfit wrote:
As it stands now, 23% of Canadians have a worse opinion of Trudeau than they had before this incident.

But how many of those Canadisna were Trudeau-haters to begin with, and just answered "Yes, my opinion is now worse" because it was the more negative thing to say about him? When, in fact, their opinion might not have decreased all that much from where it was to begin with.

I do think that, regardless of the polls, so-called elbowgate will probably have an impact on how Trudeau is viewed by the public, or at least how his handlers present him(don't think we'll be seeing any more celebrity boxing matches or other displays of his physical prowess). Just not sure how much I would read into the 23% number.

Caissa

He can rebrand himself as the heir to the Chretien tradition.

lagatta

The number, as you say, isn't so important. The NDP was wise to drop the issue - it is important to continue to speak out against violence against women and misogyny in Parliament and politics - but not give the Liberals ammunition to accuse Ashton or Brosseau of conflating Trudeau's unparliamentary behaviour with systemic violence against women. There will be plenty of opportunities (alas) for them and other women in politics to stand up for victims of those things.

Orange Crush, the popularity of both Bernie Sanders in the US and Jeremy Corbyn in the UK are examples of what you say. One could add Mélanchon in France, though the situation is somewhat different.

The extended honeymoon with JT is understandable as we contemplate the depth of the damage the Harper government has caused; it will take time to reveal the inevitable clouds amidst "Sunny ways". Hardline Liberal supporters are delighting in calling people to their left "haters" (whether those people are NDPers or other leftists more grounded in the workers' or social movements). It is the flip side of the strategic voting nonsense. 

An aside - here in Québec we have something parliamentary to be happy about, as Québec solidaire's Manon Massé's draft bill on rights for young trans people has actually one National Assembly approval! http://quebecsolidaire.net/nouvelle/quebec-solidaire-pousse-le-gouvernem...

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