Justin Trudeau = Harper with a smile

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mark_alfred

MSM lovefest continues. 

Brachina

socialdemocraticmiddle wrote:

I agree. I just don't get where this imagined "sounds too much like the Liberal party" comes from.

Over the past ten years, didn't the NDP lay out a major contrast with the Liberals on Afghanistan? On proportional representation? On cap-and-trade? On foreign ownership? On corporate taxes? On deregulation?

To me the answer is yes, there are obvious contrasts. Layton pushed those contrasts, and Mulcair hasn't caved on any of them.

Agreed, its complete bullshit that is not fact based, but rather a fiction that does no serious comparison.

Brachina

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Jean Chretien and Paul Martin were also trumpeted as being progressive.  The Canadian people might buy it again given that in comparison to Harper they look way more progressive.  That is what happens when the political discourse is allowed to drift steadily to the right.  All three of the major parties are using much the same messaging with the same buzz words like sustainability and job creation.

Non partisan voters only hear the message and by the next election they will have had almost a decade to forget the corruption of the Liberals.  Let us not forget that the Liberal Party imploded because of a corruption scandal not because the voters all of a sudden rejected their policies. If the NDP sounds too much like the Liberals they are going to be sadly disappointed when the voters opt for the real Liberal party not a pale imitation.

 

 Just because the Liberals say the words doesn't mean they mean them. Tbey also steal ndp promises and then instead of passing them steal Tory ideas and implement them.

janfromthebruce

And in the last election, voters appeared quite aware that Liberals put out the same promises and just never bothered to put them in place why they were in power. And while the official opposition, they back stopped Harper's govt.

eg. all day national childcare. They didn't forget.

And as we all know, how often has the stigma of the Bob Rae NDP govt get tossed out each provincial election in Ontario, and also at the federal scene. In fact, the libs didn't want Bob as leader because they said, they would never be able to win in Ontario because (they and the cons spent literally years using that as beating progressives to vote liberal).

So how come people only have "forgetfulness" for Libs and Cons but not NDP?

And I know, that same meme is repeated by MSM, just to reinforce that frame.

Brachina

Yeah, the MSM is the real threat, Trudeau was just a product of thier head game.

Btw what time does the farce of a Liberal Leadership race end today?

janfromthebruce

Not sure Brachina. Funny tweet:

  1. Robert McClelland ‏@RJMcClelland 1h

    Anyone know what time the Liberals will announce Trudeau has won?

    Expand

  2. Sophie-Anne B.Sophie-Anne B. ‏@SophieAnneB 1h

    @RJMcClelland I thought you were suppose to ignore Liberals?

    Expand

Robert McClellandRobert McClelland ‏@RJMcClelland 1h

@SophieAnneB Even I'm curious to see the heavens open up to allow Justin to descend to the earth

Robert didn't get a reply so it sounds like his liberal trolls don't know either.

David Young

Are we talking about Justin Trudeau....or Bieber?

 

Brachina

Is there a difference?

josh

And here I thought he was Mulcair without the beard.

North Star

CTV's Robert Fife has noted that Cyrus Reporter, Trudeau's new chief of staff was a registered lobbyist for Nexen.

Case closed.

socialdemocrati...

From Liberal insider Warren Kinsella:

When Justin Trudeau is finally declared leader and gives his too long, too windy acceptance speech, he declares an end to “hyphenated Liberals” and the Grit tribal wars of the past. There is much applause from the younger set, but not from the older Jean Chretien folks. “He wasn’t in Ottawa when they tore the party apart, and it shows,” says one. Evidence of this is found in the disproportionate number of former Martinites in Trudeau’s circle. They are back, possibly with a vengeance.

The same people who slashed medicare to pay for corporate tax cuts.

Justin Trudeau might not be Harper with a smile. But he's lipstick on a pig.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

socialdemocraticmiddle wrote:

From Liberal insider Warren Kinsella:

When Justin Trudeau is finally declared leader and gives his too long, too windy acceptance speech, he declares an end to “hyphenated Liberals” and the Grit tribal wars of the past. There is much applause from the younger set, but not from the older Jean Chretien folks. “He wasn’t in Ottawa when they tore the party apart, and it shows,” says one. Evidence of this is found in the disproportionate number of former Martinites in Trudeau’s circle. They are back, possibly with a vengeance.

The same people who slashed medicare to pay for corporate tax cuts.

Justin Trudeau might not be Harper with a smile. But he's lipstick on a pig.

I say it again, the LPC is handing us the means to beat them. We need to talk about who the Libs actually are, and who Trudeau is actually consulting, tell Canadians why the rejected this, and give them a positive reason to vote for real change. I really hope the party gets this. Its simple. If your opponent is about to throw a fast ball before they throw it, then swing at the fast ball when it comes over the plate. What is so hard to understand about that?

socialdemocrati...

On the Paul Martin tip, the first big policy announcement from Trudeau after the race is that he's against any tax increases. Even corporate tax increases.

http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/quebec-canada/politique-canadienne/201...

Not surprised to see him support the Conservative tax policy, because it's the Paul Martin tax policy.

Brachina

http://www.justinoverhishead.ca/?p=5

>

North Star wrote:

CTV's Robert Fife has noted that Cyrus Reporter, Trudeau's new chief of staff was a registered lobbyist for Nexen.

Case closed.

Yep, Justin's dirtier then a mud puddle. Corrupt as hell.

I look forward to the day they find the smoking gun that puts Justin in jail.

In other news Norman Spector pointed out the media didn't cover the part where the media was complicite in inventing Trudeaumania II.

Left Turn Left Turn's picture

It seems that a sizeable chunk of Justin Trudeau's popularity is due to his relatively youthful good looks. He also looks like one of these guys who will go from looking like a young guy to looking like an old guy with virtually no in-between. Is it too much to hope that this happens before the 2015 election?

Brachina

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/news/canada/canadian-politics/blog.html...

Gaffs and more gaffs from Justin. And where the fuck does that asshole get off on suggesting that the NDP's position on Quebec violates the charter of rights, has this dipshit even read the Charter of Rights. Please someone explain to me exactly how exactly does the Sherbrook Declaration or the Unity Bill impact in anyway upon the Charter of Rights.

Dippers have faught hard for human rights. Man I hate Justin Trudeau. The bastard is a con artist and flim flam man.

And getting in a fight with Harper over the sad Boston bombing, their both an embarrassment to Canada internationally.

janfromthebruce

Left Turn wrote:

It seems that a sizeable chunk of Justin Trudeau's popularity is due to his relatively youthful good looks. He also looks like one of these guys who will go from looking like a young guy to looking like an old guy with virtually no in-between. Is it too much to hope that this happens before the 2015 election?

nay, there is air brushing & the media have all the tools!

Brachina

janfromthebruce wrote:

Left Turn wrote:

It seems that a sizeable chunk of Justin Trudeau's popularity is due to his relatively youthful good looks. He also looks like one of these guys who will go from looking like a young guy to looking like an old guy with virtually no in-between. Is it too much to hope that this happens before the 2015 election?

nay, there is air brushing & the media have all the tools!

You've met Trudeau haven't you Jan? Is he is not as good looking as my TV and internet suggest he is?

pookie

Brachina wrote:
. And getting in a fight with Harper over the sad Boston bombing, their both an embarrassment to Canada internationally.

I thought the NDP siding with Harper today and accusing JT of "rationalizing and excusing" the bombings was appalling. 

NorthReport

Oh, you did, did you pookie? What a surprise!  Laughing

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Yea, Trudeau really gives a shit about Canadian workers, doesn't he! Trudeau really is Harper with a smile!  Frown

By the time the Cons are through with him, there will not be much left of him nor his party.

Liberals are being hypocritical’: Trudeau sent letter seeking approval for temporary foreign worker permits

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/04/17/justin-trudeau-sent-letter-seeki...

pookie

NorthReport wrote:

Oh, you did, did you pookie? What a surprise!  Laughing

Yup, I did.  It was quite something to see Randall Garrison aligning himself with Candice Bergen on Power and Politics this afternoon.

 

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

When I read about Justin Trudeau's comments, even though I can only conceive of them coming from a place of vacuity, I couldn't help but think: "Welp. Good for him. That's exactly right."

Not surprising the NDP sided with Harper. Parties ready to govern need to be able to mete out reactionary justice whensoever the call comes.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Catchfire wrote:

When I read about Justin Trudeau's comments, even though I can only conceive of them coming from a place of vacuity, I couldn't help but think: "Welp. Good for him. That's exactly right."

Not surprising the NDP sided with Harper. Parties ready to govern need to be able to mete out reactionary justice whensoever the call comes.

To me, this shows a problem Tom has with foreign policy. Its too close to the other old line parties. It really worries me.

Jacob Two-Two

Huh. I think that round just went to Justin, actually. Not only are the NDP on the wrong side of the issue, but they're stuck taking the Conservative stance, which makes sense for the Cons because it plays to their base. They needed to be more creative here. A small incident but still, if a pattern develops of Justin looking like the thoughtful one in the room (saints preserve us!), we really will be in trouble. 

Stockholm

Given that no one has been arrested for the bombing in Boston and we have ZERO idea of who was responsible and what their motive was...it seems silly to start speculating about "deep roots" etc...

BTW: It wasn't that long ago that Tom Mulcair question the circumdstances around the killing of Bin Laden and the Liberal went haywire attacking him for it.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Did he really look thoughtful. Now that I've read what he actually said, he sounds like he is just making things up. It sounded like he was doing the old "I don't really know anything but I'd better sound like a leader". It will play well with partisans but I am not sure about the rest of Canada. Really, he sounded ridiculous. Just admit you haven't been paying attention. You're still trying to figure out what the buttons on the phone in your office do, now that you actually have to call someone. This is an example of his fluff.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

I just watched that portion of the interview. If Tom had said the same thing most people on this board would be cheering and saying he was great. The statement that Tom put out was very formal and there was nothing wrong with it but Justin is getting the coverage.  Having Harper attack him first with the silly ads and then on this is more likely than not to gain him centrist votes. The charity that he was semi-stripping for had high donations after the ads ran. The NDP dismisses this man as a flake at its own peril. He is a formidable foe.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

K, he is very good at PR. Everyone here is waiting for him to fall on his face. I still say Tom needs to get under his skin and stay there. And the NDP needs to start framing him as Harper no. 2, now. Trudeau is still getting the bounce and Trudeaumaina grace period. The time for the NDP to start hitting him in a way that frames him as what he is, a neo-con, and the NDP as a postive alternative, is now. This MSM love in is going to do a lot of damge to the NDP and Tom if they don't figure it out and soon.

socialdemocrati...

I'd give a point to Justin too. You can try to mince it in a way that's less than flattering. But he's right. And I think part of the reason why people (mistakenly) take him to be progressive is that he tends to be very optimistic/forwardlooking/empathetic in *tone*, even when he's talking about more oil or some bullshit. Tone does matter to a degree.

Jacob Two-Two

I haven't seen anything that says "formidable foe". The search for "root causes" is typical mushy rhetoric amongst shallow liberal intellectuals. It's hardly original, it's just not something that politicians usually say for fear of being attacked. So it could have been shrewd or it might just be sloppy. Either way, I think it worked for him in this little exchange.

But I wouldn't be so sure that Harper's attacks aren't working. This just started, and branding someone is a slow and subtle process. Even while people are decrying the awful smear jobs, the smears can end up sticking anyway. People are funny like that.

JKR

It makes sense for Harper to criticize Trudeau over the "root causes" of crime because right-wing voters and many centrist voters feel that "root causes" are just a lame excuse used by left-wingers to condone crime and protect criminals.

On the other hand a lot of left-wing voters and centrist voters believe that the root causes of crime are the primary perspective needed to understand and combat crime. Letting Trudeau represent the left-wing position on crime risks letting Trudeau run to the left of the NDP on an important issue. This reminds me of what is happening in Nova Scotia where the Liberals are running to the left of the Nova Scotia NDP government on some issues.

All this political maneuvering shouldn't be allowed to eclipse the fact that the federal NDP is the party that most believes in the need to combat the "root causes" of crime.

Slumberjack

kropotkin1951 wrote:
 If Tom had said the same thing most people on this board would be cheering and saying he was great.

Ubetchya.  We've heard song and dance before about just societies, but still this is quite a stretch, even for them.  Liberals and root causes.  Good for a chuckle but not much else.

janfromthebruce

Brachina wrote:

janfromthebruce wrote:

Left Turn wrote:

It seems that a sizeable chunk of Justin Trudeau's popularity is due to his relatively youthful good looks. He also looks like one of these guys who will go from looking like a young guy to looking like an old guy with virtually no in-between. Is it too much to hope that this happens before the 2015 election?

nay, there is air brushing & the media have all the tools!

You've met Trudeau haven't you Jan? Is he is not as good looking as my TV and internet suggest he is?

We are now talking about physical objectation. The above comment suggested aging outcome and I suggested that photos can be doctored in this day and age, but I should have been explicit in what my comment referred to.

Mr. Trudeau may be attractive to some but not all people if we are now talking about "attraction". I got to see a side of him that was very unattractive - the look of sneer and distain for a young woman. That look was not attractive.

janfromthebruce

Stockholm wrote:

Given that no one has been arrested for the bombing in Boston and we have ZERO idea of who was responsible and what their motive was...it seems silly to start speculating about "deep roots" etc...

BTW: It wasn't that long ago that Tom Mulcair question the circumdstances around the killing of Bin Laden and the Liberal went haywire attacking him for it.

I agree with Stock here. The high road needed to be wait and see rather than idle spectulating about "deep roots". I did not watch the clip on TV.

janfromthebruce

Arthur Cramer wrote:

Catchfire wrote:

When I read about Justin Trudeau's comments, even though I can only conceive of them coming from a place of vacuity, I couldn't help but think: "Welp. Good for him. That's exactly right."

Not surprising the NDP sided with Harper. Parties ready to govern need to be able to mete out reactionary justice whensoever the call comes.

To me, this shows a problem Tom has with foreign policy. Its too close to the other old line parties. It really worries me.

Not surprising, the NDP had their "own opinion" and didn't side with anyone. Have we all got caught up into that old binary - you are either with us or against us? I hope not because analysis needs to be more thoughtful.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

"Not surprising, the NDP had their "own opinion" and didn't side with anyone. Have we all got caught up into that old binary - you are either with us or against us? I hope not because analysis needs to be more thoughtful."

What am I missing on this? I though Tom sided with Harper, but that Trudeau sounded silly. Can someone set me straight please?

 

janfromthebruce

To clear it up, this is posted by a known Liberal operative.

Boston: when silence improves the debate April 18th, 2013, 6:02 am

Harper looks bad for recklessly politicizing a terrible tragedy. Trudeau looks bad for being completely out of his depth.

Advantage: Mulcair, for knowing when to keep his mouth shut.

josh

 

"And getting in a fight with Harper over the sad Boston bombing, their both an embarrassment to Canada internationally. "

 

Who got into a fight with whom?

And what did Trudeau say that was wrong? If that came from an NDP leader, some of the same people now attacking him, would be defending.

Brachina

Tom didn't say anything, as far as I know he stayed out of it.

And its not that I disagree with what I think was what Justin was trying to say, its that he said it so poorly and unclearly thatvhe gave Harper an opening and it came off sensitive.

Still it is a minor gaffe, but the timing is really bad.

janfromthebruce

That's right Tom didn't say anything.

Brachina

http://thescottross.blogspot.ca/2013/04/liberals-attack-ad-against-trude...

http://thescottross.blogspot.ca/2013/04/liberals-forget-how-wrong-they-w...(The+Scott+Ross)&m=1

The Liberals are being arrogant again.

At the end of the NDP leadership race the NDP had ads almost ready to go and one Mulcair won they were launched right away.

The Liberals have given no sign that they plan to do anything, even though Justin netted them a big chunk of change.

I mean the Liberals aren't broke again are they?

Brachina

janfromthebruce wrote:

That's right Tom didn't say anything.

 

 Exactly, and I find it funny that Liberals get upset at Tom for not bailing Justin out. Justin wants to be PM he can learn to clean up his own messes.

pookie

janfromthebruce wrote:

That's right Tom didn't say anything.

 

Maybe Mulcair didn't say anything but the NDP sent a spokesperson in the person of Randall Garrison on PandP last night who, after listening to Candice Bergen's posturing about Trudeau "rationalizing and excusing", said "I agree with the Prime Minister" and, when asked if Harper went too far, said "JT is responsible for what he said" and that jt should have said "I'm sorry - I take that back."

Watch for yourself.  Garrison comes on at 9:17.

http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/Politics/ID/2380258832/

Brachina

Which basically is what I said, let Justin clean up his own mess.

pookie

Brachina wrote:
Which basically is what I said, let Justin clean up his own mess.

No, Garrison's comments do not in any way mirror what you said.

Bluegreenblogger

I sometimes come here just to browse through the discussions. There are a lot of thoughtful people here, mixed in with the wishful thinkers and un-thinking partisanship. I have not noticed anybody discussing, in a thoughtful manner the fact that Trudeau's campaign has changed the membership of the Liberal Party pretty significantly. If he follows through on his promise for 100% open nominations, and furthermore, if he fulfils his pledge to develop policy with processes open to the public and membership, the Liberal Party is going to change in some subtle, some far from subtle, but very powerful ways.

In the meantime, I read press reports that the NDP is trying to downplay their socialist roots, by expunging the word socialism as far as they can. (Which incidentally will take a generation to change some deeply held perceptions of the NDP).

It strikes me that there are some fundamental shifts happening. Howcome you guys and gals are all zooming in on trivia, when there are serious changes afoot? To whit: Trudeau is engaging a lot more new Liberals in what may be a dynamic process. Simultaneously, the NDP is attempting to be more like the 'Old Liberal Party'.

I mean, seriously, will anybody know or care what Tom said in response to what Trudeau and Harper said about the Boston bombing ten days from now? How about some meatier debate?

Brachina

"JT is responsible for what he said" Garrison. "Let him clean up his own mess" Brachina. Anyways this isn't worth quibbling over, its Trudeau's problem, not mine. I'm more worried about the fact as Norman Spector said that the MSM is trying to cover over Justin's gaffes to varying degrees. He also pointed out that the real reason the MSM doesn't like between political ads is it interferes with the MSMs messaging. I used to think that it would be best if we banned between election ads because that would even the field up, but now I realize it would leave the NDP defenceless against the MSM. See I never factored that in before, that it would leave the msm with too much power.

Brachina

Bluegreenblogger wrote:
I sometimes come here just to browse through the discussions. There are a lot of thoughtful people here, mixed in with the wishful thinkers and un-thinking partisanship. I have not noticed anybody discussing, in a thoughtful manner the fact that Trudeau's campaign has changed the membership of the Liberal Party pretty significantly. If he follows through on his promise for 100% open nominations, and furthermore, if he fulfils his pledge to develop policy with processes open to the public and membership, the Liberal Party is going to change in some subtle, some far from subtle, but very powerful ways.

In the meantime, I read press reports that the NDP is trying to downplay their socialist roots, by expunging the word socialism as far as they can. (Which incidentally will take a generation to change some deeply held perceptions of the NDP).

It strikes me that there are some fundamental shifts happening. Howcome you guys and gals are all zooming in on trivia, when there are serious changes afoot? To whit: Trudeau is engaging a lot more new Liberals in what may be a dynamic process. Simultaneously, the NDP is attempting to be more like the 'Old Liberal Party'.

I mean, seriously, will anybody know or care what Tom said in response to what Trudeau and Harper said about the Boston bombing ten days from now? How about some meatier debate?

Because this isn't meatier debate. The NDP already has fairly open nominations and incumbant NDP's can and have been challenged and defeated for a nomination. So honestly the nomination process of the Liberal Party not the interesting nor dynamic. As for discussing the preamble has been discuss adnausium which leaves me wondering at your true adgenda BlueGreenBlogger, given that Justin's gaffes tie into the current Tory attack ad campaign and is thier for highly revalant especiially if he keeps making gaffes. I mean its only been his second day on the job and he's already made two gaffes at a very vulnerible time for him.

lagatta

I don't think it is objectification to talk about looks when discussing a candidate who is mostly pushing his youthful good looks and "family" appeal, whatever the hell that is.

He was in Québec City meeting with the Liberals and Caca. Not the PQ, nor QS obviously.

I can't abide the crap about the fucking "middle class". He is shitting on his largely working-class constituents.

The "middle class" is as ridiculous an obfuscation has the ones modern people would scorn from "less developed" societies.

Bluegreenblogger

Quote:
Because this isn't meatier debate. The NDP already has fairly open nominations and incumbant NDP's can and have been challenged and defeated for a nomination. So honestly the nomination process of the Liberal Party not the interesting nor dynamic. As for discussing the preamble has been discuss adnausium which leaves me wondering at your true adgenda BlueGreenBlogger, given that Justin's gaffes tie into the current Tory attack ad campaign and is thier for highly revalant especiially if he keeps making gaffes. I mean its only been his second day on the job and he's already made two gaffes at a very vulnerible time for him.

Lol, my 'agenda' is to pass some time on my lunch break, and the news sites are just plain boring.

The changes underway in the Liberal Party are going to have a significant impact over time, as they are harvesting hundreds of thousands of supporters, and show every sign of continuing with open nominations. Do you really think that this is not of interest? My point is that your principle opponents are making fundamental changes, and whether or not the NDP does some of these things or not is besides the point.

As far as verbal gaffes goes, that is barely relevant to me, or you for that matter. If you have a thread on the emergence of a new leader for the Liberals, I would have thought that the significant changes in the structure and nature of the Liberal Party membership ushered in by the process would be more significant than a few public utterances two years before an election. I can read any number of comments on peripherals like that at the National Post, or Sun.

Could you post a link to those meatier discussions about the preamble then? It takes to long to scroll through all the long threads looking for meat, but apparently you have them at the tip of your finger.

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