Justin Trudeau = Harper with a smile

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kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Brachina all your posts are in a font that is hard to read.  I think others with more computer savvy than I have explained the problem and the fix.  Please try to fix whatever problem you are having.

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Bluegreenblogger wrote:
Lol, my 'agenda' is to pass some time on my lunch break

Ok. This gave me a chuckle. Thanks bgb! And could others please, for the umpteenth, stop hypothesizing about others' (especially newish posters') hidden agendas? Many thanks.

@kropotkin There has been a spacing problem on babble since a recent minor update to another part of the site. It's being looked into, but I've noticed that if you're posting to babble from a phone or a tablet it's not so easy to fix the font as it is from a desktop. So please be patient with the smaller-font posts while we try to fix this problem.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Catchfire wrote:

@kropotkin There has been a spacing problem on babble since a recent minor update to another part of the site. It's being looked into, but I've noticed that if you're posting to babble from a phone or a tablet it's not so easy to fix the font as it is from a desktop. So please be patient with the smaller-font posts while we try to fix this problem.

Thanks Catchfire now it makes sense that it is the device that one is posting with and not something that the poster can do anything about. It apparently doesn't affect laptops since that is what I post on.

Its annoying none the less and I hope the techies fix the glitch soon.

Brachina

Bluegreenblogger wrote:

Quote:
Because this isn't meatier debate. The NDP already has fairly open nominations and incumbant NDP's can and have been challenged and defeated for a nomination. So honestly the nomination process of the Liberal Party not the interesting nor dynamic. As for discussing the preamble has been discuss adnausium which leaves me wondering at your true adgenda BlueGreenBlogger, given that Justin's gaffes tie into the current Tory attack ad campaign and is thier for highly revalant especiially if he keeps making gaffes. I mean its only been his second day on the job and he's already made two gaffes at a very vulnerible time for him.

Lol, my 'agenda' is to pass some time on my lunch break, and the news sites are just plain boring.

The changes underway in the Liberal Party are going to have a significant impact over time, as they are harvesting hundreds of thousands of supporters, and show every sign of continuing with open nominations. Do you really think that this is not of interest? My point is that your principle opponents are making fundamental changes, and whether or not the NDP does some of these things or not is besides the point.

As far as verbal gaffes goes, that is barely relevant to me, or you for that matter. If you have a thread on the emergence of a new leader for the Liberals, I would have thought that the significant changes in the structure and nature of the Liberal Party membership ushered in by the process would be more significant than a few public utterances two years before an election. I can read any number of comments on peripherals like that at the National Post, or Sun.

Could you post a link to those meatier discussions about the preamble then? It takes to long to scroll through all the long threads looking for meat, but apparently you have them at the tip of your finger.

 

Alot of the debate on the preamble is in the NDP convention thread, although I'm not sure what's left to be said at this point.

  And its not really hundreds of thousands of supporters, its a hundred and twenty seven thousand and its doubtful that they'll particpate in nomination battles.

2. Most nomination battles are open, even in the Liberal Party it just incumbants who don't have to worry about that and the occasional star candiate. This will change none of that because for an incumbant to be challenged they have to seriously piss off the base in the riding and so I doubt any Liberal incumbants will face any serious challenge. As for star candiates who would fallow this train wreck in the making of a Liberal Leader does not deserve the title star candiate.

So no this will have little to no effect.

And last you may want to try the Subway Meatball melt for Lunch, which is basically a hybred meatball and pizza sub. Its great

Bluegreenblogger

Brachina wrote:

 

Alot of the debate on the preamble is in the NDP convention thread, although I'm not sure what's left to be said at this point.

 

  And its not really hundreds of thousands of supporters, its a hundred and twenty seven thousand and its doubtful that they'll particpate in nomination battles. 2. Most nomination battles are open, even in the Liberal Party it just incumbants who don't have to worry about that and the occasional star candiate. This will change none of that because for an incumbant to be challenged they have to seriously piss off the base in the riding and so I doubt any Liberal incumbants will face any serious challenge. As for star candiates who would fallow this train wreck in the making of a Liberal Leader does not deserve the title star candiate. So no this will have little to no effect. And last you may want to try the Subway Meatball melt for Lunch, which is basically a hybred meatball and pizza sub. Its great

ok I will check out the convention thread. I was astounded when the only socialist option in Canada seems to have decided they did not want to be socialists anymore. I just have to evaluate the basis for that decision for myself. Maybe it is a good decision, but I am disappointed (despite not really identifying as a socialist). IMHO We cannot afford to lose that part of the political discourse at this juncture in time.

You are confusing the mecahnics of the supporter process for the leadership vote (meaning whosoever registered for leadership vote) with the actual and significant outcome. There were actually about 240,000 supporters added to the existing membership database. To me, the true significance is that the Liberals are soliciting, and receiving self-identified expressions of support, along with the means to communicate directly. Tapping those supporters to develop policy implies a serious effort to engage them more closely. Add to that 100% contested nominations with supporters being recruited in real numbers, and I think you can see that the numbers of Liberal supporters are going to be well over half a million before 2015 general election. Each of those things are interesting when considered in isolation, but combined, they imply something pretty significant. It is almost as if organisationally the Liberals and NDP are switching places, with the Liberals trying to create a mass movement, and the NDP trying to shed (hide? disguise?) their socialist roots like Labour did in the UK.

As far as Star candidates go, who knows? Stars will appear if they think they can get elected to real power. That conversation will be worth having next year I guess.

And for lunch, I had a toasted Bagel, with a chunk of Cheddar and an apple. I am not too keen on fast/processed foods that come out of a freezer. I might try the Sub next time I am in a rush and eating out thanks.

janfromthebruce

Actually we're social democrats and I'm proud of it. Always have been, so much better than wishy washy liberal who continually props up neoliberalism and privlege for the wealthy class, partucularly those who don't have to really work because of inherited wealth. And to prop up that inherited wealth, may charge big bucks for fluffy speeches for non-profits and schools. Now that is disgusitng.

Brachina

I'll point out Socialist is still in the preamble, its just more inclusive, I prefer to call it Socialist +.

Truthfully it changes nothing.

DaveW

lagatta wrote:

I can't abide the crap about the fucking "middle class". He is shitting on his largely working-class constituents.

and they re-elect him; did not realize until recently that JT's  "achievement "" in winning Papineau from the Bloc  is not much, given the demographics of the riding, which has voted something like 22/23 times for a Liberal :

 http://www.cbc.ca/news/canadavotes/riding/082/

 ... I lived in Outremont riding when  the odds were similar and Tories first won in 1988; needless to say, riding quickly rebounded to Liberals (until Tom)

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Careful some people might not understand which leader you are talking about when you express your hatred for politicians who use the term middle class. Tom's messaging to the middle class has always grated on my nerves. I expect it from the real liberal party so when their leader uses that kind of language it bothers me far less than when the heir of the working man's party uses it.

Quote:

Today our country faces levels of income inequality not seen since the Great Depression and the middle-class is struggling like never before.

Quote:

NDP Leader Thomas Mulcair dropped his party's usual references to low-income Canadians, unions, aboriginals, and human rights in his first speech to his caucus Wednesday.

Instead, Mulcair repeatedly referred to a single group of Canadians he says the Conservative government will abandon in its budget on Thursday.

"The middle class will be left out in the cold," Mulcair declared to his caucus colleagues, seated around him in the historic Railway Room in Centre Block on Parliament Hill.

Quote:

"What we're seeing now for the first time is the middle class actually starting to slip back. We're seeing a huge ecological, economic and social debt being left on the backs of future generations," Mulcair said.

JKR

Brachina wrote:
I'll point out Socialist is still in the preamble, its just more inclusive, I prefer to call it Socialist +.

Truthfully it changes nothing.

Over the years the term "socialism" has become a loaded term that has lost a lot of its utility. Other terms such as "sustainability", "equality", "equity", "fairness", "harmony", and "consensus", have resonance in today's political world. Over time language changes so it makes sense that new terms are used to better correspond with new realities.

Doug

The reality is that 70% or better of Canadians think of themselves as middle class, regardless of how objectively true that is.

JKR

Considering that roughly 1% make up the upper class it makes sense that at least 70% make up the middle class while the rest make up the poor.

lagatta

Well, if that is how you analyse classes... For one thing, that would mean that a person working full-time in a manufacturing job (above minimum wage) would be "middle-class" (which is bullshit, by the way) while his co-worker working part-time at the very same job would be among the "poor".

Sandy Dillon

Harper is for the upper class Mulcair and Trudeau seem to be for the rest.

Voting decision for someone who is paying attention will be Tom or Justin!

janfromthebruce

Sandy Dillon wrote:

Harper is for the upper class Mulcair and Trudeau seem to be for the rest.

Voting decision for someone who is paying attention will be Tom or Justin!

Actually both HarperCons and TrudeauLibs are for the upper class. The liberal party and the Con party both support corporate and business supremacy. One need only look at their past voting and policy positions to know this.

Brachina

Sandy Dillon wrote:

Harper is for the upper class Mulcair and Trudeau seem to be for the rest.

Voting decision for someone who is paying attention will be Tom or Justin!

Yeah Justin's just as much for the upper class as Harper. Just look at who Justin's chief of staff is.

Also look at the fact that Justin has promised no new tax increases.

Or that he supports the Nexen take over.

Or that he calls the NDP extremist and fringe.

Or that the rise of Trudeaumania happens just when it started looking like Mulcair would end up Prime Minister.

Or that he supports exporting jobs via keystone.

socialdemocrati...

Good point on middle class identity. You find very few people who identify as "working class, "lower class", or even "poor". Part of the pathology of the society we live in is that more and more people deprived of lower wages feel like it's their own fault for being a failure, or even worse, it's the fault of welfare cheats stealing the public purse.

janfromthebruce

not use where to put this but this wedgie is going to show how unprogressive Trudeau really is.

Derrick O'Keefe ‏@derrickokeefe 22m

Trudeau-Liberals to work w/ Harper-Cons to restore Chretien-Liberal draconian laws stalled by Dion-Liberals http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/boston-attack-demonstrates-need-for-stronger-anti-terrorism-laws-toews-1.1247522 … #cdnpoli

Boston attack demonstrates need for stronger anti-terrorism laws: Toews
Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/boston-attack-demonstrates-need-for-stronger-anti-terrorism-laws-toews-1.1247522#ixzz2R7nIl5H8

NDP foreign affairs critic Paul Dewar said the Conservatives are using the attack in Boston as an opportunity to give the appearance that they’re doing something, when they’ve actually cut the budget for border security.

Dewar said that rather than passing the controversial legislation, it should be restoring funding to border security. He also noted that many of the proposed measures in Bill S-7 were laws from 2001 to 2007 but subsequently expired.

snip

Liberal MP Francis Scarpaleggia said that the Liberals will be supporting Bill S-7 and noted that many of the original measures were first introduced by the Chretien government in 2001.

“We’ve been supporting it all the way through before the incident in Boston ever occurred,” he said. “This particular piece of legislation is not about budgets, it’s about bringing back some legal measures to help in the fight against terrorism.”

 

Hamiltonian

People put Layton up on a pedestal since he has died. I remember New Democrats being just as opinionated about Jack as we are of Tom. In fact, for the last year as Tom had been riding high in the polls we really didn't have too many negative things to say about him. Now that Liberals have soared into 1st there is a lot of questioning going on about Tom. Are we so quick to pull the claws out & eat our own?

Liberals are in their honeymoon phase. It's normal & expected. I think we need to concentrate more on us and less on them. We have fought these uphill battles before and won. It took time and hard work and a heck of a lot of commitment. And we will do it again. I know this because we are the real deal. I think this needs to be our message to Canadians. We stand true on what we say we are going to do. Tommy Douglas' great achievements took 17 years to roll out. His first reputable act was running power lines out to all the rural areas and giving them electricity. Medicare didn't come for 15 years after becoming premier - he had to wait for the time to be right. Sometimes we expect too much too soon from our leaders and fail to give them enough credit. Tom really isn't that different from Jack -- we just remember it that way. Jack too was accused of taking the party centre and abandoning our principles. But now he's our hero. Tom too is doing good work -- let's focus on that. After all, optimism is better than despair.

socialdemocrati...

Yeah, I think the new NDP leader gets a bad rap while Layton gets a pass. Truthfully, the party had already changed by the time Jack took over. Probably much earlier than that. And it's a long hard battle. Don't think that just because we're close to power it suddenly becomes easier. Nah, the mainstream media is going to be much more vicious. The Liberals represent a change in tone without a change in policy, and they like that very much.

North Star

Hamiltonian wrote:
People put Layton up on a pedestal since he has died. I remember New Democrats being just as opinionated about Jack as we are of Tom. In fact, for the last year as Tom had been riding high in the polls we really didn't have too many negative things to say about him. Now that Liberals have soared into 1st there is a lot of questioning going on about Tom. Are we so quick to pull the claws out & eat our own? Liberals are in their honeymoon phase. It's normal & expected. I think we need to concentrate more on us and less on them. We have fought these uphill battles before and won. It took time and hard work and a heck of a lot of commitment. And we will do it again. I know this because we are the real deal. I think this needs to be our message to Canadians. We stand true on what we say we are going to do. Tommy Douglas' great achievements took 17 years to roll out. His first reputable act was running power lines out to all the rural areas and giving them electricity. Medicare didn't come for 15 years after becoming premier - he had to wait for the time to be right. Sometimes we expect too much too soon from our leaders and fail to give them enough credit. Tom really isn't that different from Jack -- we just remember it that way. Jack too was accused of taking the party centre and abandoning our principles. But now he's our hero. Tom too is doing good work -- let's focus on that. After all, optimism is better than despair.

As critical as I am of the NDP, I'll back up Layton on a couple of things. Jack came from the left and made a name for himself championing causes like AIDS back at a time when it could be seen as risky. So there was a certain credibility that he was "one of us" that you don't get from an ex-QLP minister like Mulcair. So there was a patience for trying to "modernize" the NDP that Jack received from party members that Mulcair doesn't get. That being said, the fact that the party is closer to government than it has ever been also allows Mulcair room to maneuver that keeps the grumbling smaller than what it would be if Mulcair was leading the NDP if it was the 3rd party in parliament.  

I also think that if the left could actually build some extra-parliamentary momentum Jack would be far more amenable to the pressure than Mulcair would be. It would have been fascinating to see how Layton would have reacted to the Quebec student strike. Lots of progressives claimed Obama would be more susceptible to left pressure than Clinton was and that turned out to be a bust, so who knows.

Sandy Dillon

Here are some of the reasons why Justin Trudeau just might have a shot at winning the next election!

 

#1. Trudeau did not promise senior citizens he would not tax income trust funds then after some of them invested turn around and tax trust funds.

#2. Trudeau did not rise the age requirement for O.A.S. from 65 to 67.

#3. Trudeau did not send our troops into a war zone then cut their danger pay by 500 a month.

#4. Trudeau did not cut the budget for Veteran affairs just when we have more vets returning from a war zone.

#5. Trudeau did not put in place rules so Canadian big business could hire foreign workers to take the jobs of Canadians at lower wages.

#6. Trudeau did not reform E.I. rules so unemployed Canadians would be forced to travel up to 60 miles to take jobs that pay 30% less.

#7. Trudeau did not hire a Parliamentary Watchdog then hold info from him so he would have trouble completing his reports.

#8. Trudeau did not implement an in and out scheme during an election campaign.

#9. Trudeau did not make calls to voters claiming to be from elections Canada telling people their polling stations have been moved.

#10. Trudeau did not have anything to do with the F-35 fiasco.

#11. Trudeau did not call maritimers a bunch od defeatists.

#12. Trudeau did not cause us to lose a seat at the U.N.!

#13. Trudeau did not redact documents concerning the detainees in Afghanistan.

#14. Trudeau did not say I make the rules here.

#15. Trudeau did not give 15 million to the Philippines to train young people for jobs!!!!!!!!

#16. Trudeau did not spend close to a billion dollars on a 3 day summit which included the building of such needed things like Gazebos and fake lakes.

#17. Trudeau did not come up with the idea to build more prisons to house fewer criminals because our crime rates are going down.

#18. Trudeau did not on one hand say lets get tough on crime THEN GO let out of prison several Hells Angel gang members.

#19. Trudeau did not have anything to do with appointing Mike Duffy,Pam Wallin nor Brazeau as Senators.

#20. Trudeau did not allow a party candidate to run in a federal election then when he lost that riding appoint him to the senate.

 

nicky

Sandy, every one of your 20 points begins with "Trudeau did not..."

Any list that begins with "Trudeau did..." would be much shorter.

Brachina

Trudeau also did not shoot JFR.

Trudeau also did not leave flaming dog poop on my front porch.

Trudeau has also never mugged anyone at gun point.

None of these are reason to vote for Justin. Neither are the reasons you give.

You choose to vote for someone based on what they have done and what they will do, not on random stuff they haven't done.

Brachina

janfromthebruce wrote:

not use where to put this but this wedgie is going to show how unprogressive Trudeau really is.

Derrick O'Keefe ‏@derrickokeefe 22m

Trudeau-Liberals to work w/ Harper-Cons to restore Chretien-Liberal draconian laws stalled by Dion-Liberals http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/boston-attack-demonstrates-need-for-stronger-anti-terrorism-laws-toews-1.1247522 … #cdnpoli

Boston attack demonstrates need for stronger anti-terrorism laws: Toews
Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/boston-attack-demonstrates-need-for-stronger-anti-terrorism-laws-toews-1.1247522#ixzz2R7nIl5H8

NDP foreign affairs critic Paul Dewar said the Conservatives are using the attack in Boston as an opportunity to give the appearance that they’re doing something, when they’ve actually cut the budget for border security.

Dewar said that rather than passing the controversial legislation, it should be restoring funding to border security. He also noted that many of the proposed measures in Bill S-7 were laws from 2001 to 2007 but subsequently expired.

snip

Liberal MP Francis Scarpaleggia said that the Liberals will be supporting Bill S-7 and noted that many of the original measures were first introduced by the Chretien government in 2001.

“We’ve been supporting it all the way through before the incident in Boston ever occurred,” he said. “This particular piece of legislation is not about budgets, it’s about bringing back some legal measures to help in the fight against terrorism.”

 

I been thinking about this and have realized that Justin got played for a fool on this. This was the real goal of Harper's shot at Justin over the bombing, to make Justin feel defensive about being weak on terrorist so he'd change the previous Liberal Policy on this bill, giving Harper political cover for this rights violating bill.

Any damage to Trudeau is gravy.

He really is in over his head.

socialdemocrati...

nicky wrote:

Sandy, every one of your 20 points begins with "Trudeau did not..."

Any list that begins with "Trudeau did..." would be much shorter.

Zing!

janfromthebruce

yes, Trudeau Jr. did alot of twiddling his thumps on the backbench - there is life beyond tweets!

janfromthebruce

The Combating Terrorism Act vs Justin Trudeau

Dear Libs : and this is why you can't be taken seriously as a credible opposition to Steve or a partner in any coalition against Steve. Prior to the last election, you expected to be given a pass for voting along with Steve hundreds of times owing to the fact you couldn't afford to bring down the government because you weren't ready to have an election. You don't have that excuse any longer. Really looking forward to hearing your cautious mousy noises against innocent citizens being incarcerated without trial before you all vote along with Steve once again, just so no one can call you soft on terrorism :

Liberal MP Francis Scarpaleggia said that the Liberals will be supporting Bill S-7 and noted that many of the original measures were first introduced by the Chretien government in 2001.

SNIP

which is merely a rehash of the language in :
2010 G8 Summit - Integrated Security Unit Joint Intelligence Group 

SNIP

The G8/G20 - in which thousands of people got locked up for days for no reason whatsoever.

So who wants to see the G8/G20 pilot project experiment in "terrorism" law enforcement expanded into law right across Canada?

Oh yes, let's do cooperation with the Liberal party (NOT) because they are so not progressive. And Trudeau Jr. will vote yes again, just like the the rest of Liberal members of govt. So, Trudeau's list of what he has done in the past just got a wee add on, between tweeting his thumbs on the back benches.

Brachina

http://buckdogpolitics.blogspot.com/2013/04/why-are-trudeaus-liberals-su...

http://buckdogpolitics.blogspot.com/2013/04/why-are-trudeaus-liberals-su...

As if supporting the terrorism bill wasn't bad enough now the Liberals are supporting FIPPA as well.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

I think that supporting these kinds of free trade agreement shows that the Liberals are indeed a party of and for corporations.  However it is a consistent policy given the Liberal support for NAFTA and other corporate rights treaties with countries like Japan and Brazil and Honduras.

So thumbs down for siding with corporations and thumps up for not trying to talk out of both sides of his mouth on the most important issue for the future of sustainable development in this country.

clambake

So do you guys think the NDP should run attack ads painting Harper and Trudeau as two sides of the same coin before 2015? Might be necessary. The myth of the "Progressive Trudeau" won't die and it doesn't seem like voters pay attention to policy between elections.

Unionist

clambake wrote:

So do you guys think the NDP should run attack ads painting Harper and Trudeau as two sides of the same coin before 2015?

Some coins have 3 sides.

 

Brachina

Unionist wrote:

clambake wrote:

So do you guys think the NDP should run attack ads painting Harper and Trudeau as two sides of the same coin before 2015?

Some coins have 3 sides.

 

What kind of weird ass Lovecraftian coinage have you been using?

Here is a tip if it has an eldar Gods from the Necromaticon on either side and the third side makes your eyes bleed as well ss causing you to hear chanting of Zombie Vampire monks use Canadian money instead. ;p

Brachina

http://www.ipolitics.ca/2013/04/22/scrums-a-question-of-difference-betwe...

Justin once again proven a tool.

This does seem a victory of sorts, Mulcair should be able to use the next PBO to get the documents he wants. Actually I think it strengthens Mulcair hand in the future very well.

Hamiltonian

I have to agree with the three-sided coin comment -- NDP declared itself in support of free-trade, well kind-of. We support free trade on a case by case basis. How we decide is arbitrary & unclear. We should have a clear cut policy so that we don't become part of a 3-sided coin.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Once again it proves that parties that are involved in court cases get in depth briefs immediately from their lawyers. Kudos to the NDP for hiring good lawyers.  Justin's handlers were probably still getting advise on the case while Mulcair already had a telephone call from the legal team.

Trudeau may be many things but this incident proves nothing about him except that he didn't get an in depth brief about a NDP prompted court case within two hours. He does seem to be learning when to just say he hasn't heard about it yet. How many things do you think leaders get briefed on while they are in the House?

Brachina

This is a huge case of major importance to the fuctioning of the house. Why doesn't the Liberals have  Lawyers? There is no excuse.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Okay I give up your brilliant analysis must be right this proves that the NDP are going to win a majority government next election. Of course not knowing about it two hours after the case was released is proof positive of gross incompetence.  The NDP should use it in an ad or something because it is so outrageous.

Brachina

http://accidentaldeliberations.blogspot.ca/2013/04/on-distinctions.html?m=1

People are ripping into the Liberals over FIPPA and for supportering Harper's attack on civil liberities.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

NDP blogger rips into Liberals.  Dog bites postman.  Any other breaking news you would like to share.

Quote:

Greg Fingas (aka the Jurist) is a Regina lawyer, blogger and freelance political commentator who writes about provincial and national issues from a progressive NDP perspective.

 

Brachina

What's up with defending the Liberals?

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Just responding to inanity.  If you want to beat the Liberals it will take more than pointing to non issues as proof that they are useless. Also when you post that "people" are ripping into the Liberals and it turns out to be an openly partisan NDP blogger I find that just a little over the top and can't resist a little humour.

 

janfromthebruce

I've noticed that over at progressive bloggers that there are quite a few disappointed Liberal bloggers there. And noted the same on twitter. Oh well, I guess it is more than one lone partisan blogger.

A great betrayal: Trudeau and the Liberals voted for Harper’s sell-out FIPA

Meet the new Libs. Same as the old Libs as far as I can tell.

Or they are posting about nothing much to ignore the elephant in the room. I also noted that the editorial in TorStar also was against the renewed anti terrorist legislation

Canada doesn't need to erode civil rights to fight terror: Editorial

The Liberal Star!

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Maybe if you read less of the MSM you would have a more rounded view of politics and be more open to progressive ideas.

josh

 

Quote:
I'm less optimistic by the day that the NDP will take us where we need to go. But I'm absolutely sure that a Liberal party led by Justin Trudeau won't. He's clearly following in the tradition of occasionally saying something half-way promising though generally vague, and then caving when the pressure's on. I'll grant you that there are things the Harper government has done that Liberals would likely never do. But in too many ways — including national security issues and pandering to the corporate agenda — the Liberals look like Conservatives who would move at a more measured pace but still take us in the same direction.

mark_alfred

From a link provided by jan:

pogge wrote:
But in too many ways — including national security issues and pandering to the corporate agenda — the Liberals look like Conservatives who would move at a more measured pace but still take us in the same direction.

While I agree with "take us in the same direction", I question that Liberals would "move at a more measured pace".  I haven't seen the Conservatives resort to cutting transfer payments to provinces as the Liberals did.  Also, income trusts had tax-free status under the Liberals, whereas the Conservatives did change this and rightly taxed them (which the Libs  in a subsequent election stated they'd cut these taxes).  Anyway, rather than taking the shock-and-awe approach of the Liberals toward the economy (tax cuts, transfer payment cuts, making EI more difficult, etc), the Conservatives have been more measured in this respect -- granted, the Cons have moved in the same direction as the Libs, but in a more measured way).

Brachina

http://warrenkinsella.com/2013/04/the-jt-spot-open-thread/

 

 So Justin has released his own ads. Call me underwhelmed. It's all pladitudes and does nothing to dispell the fears he's lacking in substance.

mark_alfred

Brachina wrote:

http://warrenkinsella.com/2013/04/the-jt-spot-open-thread/

 

 So Justin has released his own ads. Call me underwhelmed. It's all pladitudes and does nothing to dispell the fears he's lacking in substance.

I think it's successful.  It avoids policy, and sticks with the "I'm a nicer guy than Harper" theme.  So, voters can choose Trudeau, who is someone who will implement basically the same policies as the Conservatives, but with the promotional tone of cooperation and change, rather than with the Conservative's promotional tones of patriotism and law and order.  The Liberals are hoping this will be the ticket to victory.

janfromthebruce

and if one didn't notice in the clip the green board in the background has math equations which is pretty humorous - Trudeau says he's a teacher trying infer a math teacher but we know he was a drama teacher. What's up with that?

But more importantly, green boards are so in the past (like back in the good old days) - if Trudeau wanted to look like the Liberals were going to move into the 21st century he would have a background of "smart boards", so he's most definitely going for the demographic of Trudeau Sr.'s era and nostolga.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Warren Kinsella has now become a favoured political guru amongst NDP partisans, who would have thunk it. His dislike of Trudeau is of course brilliant analysis not just a continuation of his hate on for the Martin wing of the party. He was sage enough to support Ignatieff as the saviour of the party in the lead up to the last election so we should all pay attention to his views.

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