Kinder Morgan What's next?

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NorthReport
Kinder Morgan What's next?

We should not be increasing tanker traffic in Burrard Inlet, as anyone who has any awareness of the Exxon Valdez disaster, almost 30 years ago, knows

Kinder Morgan Pipeline

https://www.vancouverobserver.com/kinder-morgan-pipeline

NorthReport

It doesn't matter as the Trudeau Liberals, with their allied mainstream press, and Canada's business community, have decided this pipeline expansion project is going ahead.

‘Flawed from the get-go’: In pipeline feud, National Energy Board process questioned

Lawyer for Burnaby calls talk of constitutional crisis ‘ridiculous’ because federal process lacked rigour.

https://www.thestar.com/vancouver/2018/04/17/flawed-from-the-get-go-in-p...

NorthReport

Only in Canada you say!

Kinder Morgan would profit from oil spills. Really.

http://rabble.ca/news/2015/04/kinder-morgan-would-profit-oil-spills-real...

Rev Pesky

You forgot to mention that the majority of BCer's are in favour of the pipeline.

NorthReport

 

Unfortunately it will take the BC NDP many years to undo all the damage that was done to BC by the BC Liberals!

Quote:

Vancouver, British Columbia

It is definitley unconstitutional for a foreign Texas based oil company to manipulate a "national crisis" or a "constitutional crisis". Many enraged Albertans have been calling on the use of force to include calling in the military and arbitrarily locking up all protestors. They latched right onto the retaliate and penalize mentality. That mentality stems from the abuse of power the corporate fraudsters got away with when the BC Liberals were in power. The corporatists now manipulate this scenario under the "divided they fall" concept so they can further manipulate politics (like trying to get Alberta's rage to trigger a snap election in BC) and creating all this hoopla over thier own failure. Typical of this type of corporate tyranny to take no responsibility and dump it on the tax payers. They do this after the BC Liberals let the social infrastructure crumble and bullied us half to death. Now they offload the rich gangster oil execs problems - onto the taxpayers, apparently without batting an eyelash. A two minute decision by Notley and Trudeau after a two hour meeting. What a timeline to decide to buy something listed at 13.4 billion! Those bad boys (and Notley) need to get reigned in!

https://www.straight.com/news/1059681/pipeline-canada-house-london-shows...

NorthReport

More BS from the CBC

Trudeau will be doing what he really put there to do - capitulate to the business community, and screw the Canadian citizens.

Kinder Morgan begins negotiations with Ottawa to save pipeline project

Company says Trans Mountain expansion 'is now facing unquantifiable risk'

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/tmx-kinder-morgan-oilpatch-1.4625532

NorthReport

A packed courtroom as Kinder Morgan pipeline protestors face charges

https://www.nationalobserver.com/2018/04/18/news/packed-courtroom-kinder...

NorthReport

Who knew!

High-ranking federal officials sped up Trans Mountain review after phone call from Kinder Morgan's Ian Anderson

 

High-ranking public servants in the federal government discussed speeding up the review of Kinder Morgan’s Trans Mountain expansion project in 2016 following a phone call from the company’s Canadian chief executive, Ian Anderson, reveal newly-released documents. And one day after the Texas energy company lobbied the top public servant at Natural Resources Canada, officials warned the proposed pipeline would be "abandoned" if delays were significant.

The records, including a leaked email and an internal government memo from January 2016, provide a glimpse into public servants' deliberations over opposition to the multi-billion-dollar Kinder Morgan project as well as the power and influence of the oilpatch over Canadian government policies.

https://www.nationalobserver.com/2018/04/18/news/high-ranking-federal-of...

Martin N.

You also forgot to mention that the Exxon Valdez was a single hulled tanker.

NorthReport
NorthReport

There is no need to risk a spill off the Coast of BC from which we might never recover at least in our lifetimes.

Martin N. wrote:

You also forgot to mention that the Exxon Valdez was a single hulled tanker.

NorthReport

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately it is impossible to ensure adequate spill response assurances.

Pipeline Problems? Try Tanker Troubles: BC Kinder Morgan opponents want spill response assurances

http://angusreid.org/kinder-morgan-transmountain/

Martin N.

NorthReport wrote:

Only in Canada you say!

Kinder Morgan would profit from oil spills. Really.

http://rabble.ca/news/2015/04/kinder-morgan-would-profit-oil-spills-real...

Did you forget to mention that this spill response is entirely funded by industry, will respond to any marine emergency and provides 125 permanent jobs at six coastal bases? It really puts some serious capability into our west coast marine environment.

A fine load of disinformation you are peddling there. This spill response is a condition of their NEB approval. 

NorthReport

I don't think I'd be peddling the NEB's credibility after their recent fiascos as that's just gobbledygook. 

NorthReport

And Martin N why are you not talking about the impact on climate change? 

NorthReport

Sure sounds like corporate welfare to me!

NDP's energy bill a double-edged sword for oilpatch in pipeline battle

http://calgaryherald.com/business/energy/varcoe-ndps-energy-bill-a-doubl...

NorthReport
NorthReport
Rev Pesky

From NorthReport:

There is no need to risk a spill off the Coast of BC from which we might never recover at least in our lifetimes.

A look at the past, and the future, of oil tankers in Port of Vancouver

Petroleum products and tanker safety

For about 60 years, tankers have travelled through the Burrard Inlet without incident. In that time, safety standards have continued to become more stringent.

...The Port of Vancouver sees about 30 to 50 crude oil tankers per year, out of a total of about 3,160 vessel calls annually. With the Kinder Morgan pipeline expansion project approved, this number could increase to about 400 tankers per year...

...Other ports see far more such traffic. The Port of Rotterdam in the Netherlands sees about 8,200 tankers each year and Singapore hosts about 22,200 tankers annually.

NorthReport

And the Exxon Valdez oil spill disaster never happened.

We need to be reducing our oil tanker traffic not increasing it!

what part of global warming don’t you understand?

 

JKR

Rev Pesky wrote:

You forgot to mention that the majority of BCer's are in favour of the pipeline.

I think the majority of voters here in Vancouver are opposed to it. Everyone I have spoken to about it here has been against it. I'm not sure how it could be built here against so much local opposition. The City of Burnaby seems especially opposed to it. Maybe a place like Prince Rupert would support it?

Martin N.

NorthReport wrote:

And Martin N why are you not talking about the impact on climate change? 

Because the topic is Kinder Morgan's pipeline project?

Pondering

https://www.vancouverobserver.com/kinder-morgan-pipeline

In July, 2007 a road crew's excavator accidentally dug down and pierced the Kinder Morgan pipeline, causing a massive rupture that spilled more than 250,000 litres of oil into a Burnaby neighbourhood and 70,000 litres into nearby Burrard Inlet. The incident received international media attention as the oil shot into the air coating houses, cars, lawns and roads in a thick, black carpet of oily crude. An estimated 250 residents had to be evacuated and the clean up cost $15 million. 

The 2007 pipeline rupture remains fresh in the minds of many residents in the City of Burnaby, including the long-serving Mayor of Burnaby, Derek Corrigan, who is a very vocal opponent of the pipeline and is enacting the jurisdictional means at his disposal to stop the expansion of the Kinder Morgan pipeline. The fear amongst Burnaby residents is that the expanded pipeline means more risk of larger pipeline ruptures occurring in the future. 

No wonder Burnaby is especially opposed.  As I said, the oil industry made its own bed. 

Rev Pesky

From NorthReport:

what part of global warming don’t you understand?

So you would  be in favour of the Alberta move to cut off gasoline supplies to BC? I mean, that would be a step towards reducing global warming.

NDPP

'It Hurt': FN Leaders' Pipeline Ownership Proposal Comes As Shock To Some

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/fort-chip-pipeline-proposal-1.4621885

"A proposal by FN leaders in the Fort McMurray Alberta region to own their own pipeline has caught some community members off guard. The communities' leaders announced on April 6 that they either want to buy a stake in the Trans Mountain Pipeline or partner and build another future line..."

Rev Pesky

From  Pondering:

No wonder Burnaby is especially opposed.  As I said, the oil industry made its own bed. 

Pardon me for saying, but it wasn't the oil industry that pierced the pipe, it was a road crew. You may not know this, but in BC we have a very public campaign called 'Dial before you dig'. That is a message that is sent out on a daily basis on radio, tv and newspapers, warning those who plan to excavate to check with the autorities before they start digging. The pipeline didn't 'rupture', it was holed by an idiot with a backhoe.

Pondering

Rev Pesky wrote:

From  Pondering:

No wonder Burnaby is especially opposed.  As I said, the oil industry made its own bed. 

Pardon me for saying, but it wasn't the oil industry that pierced the pipe, it was a road crew. You may not know this, but in BC we have a very public campaign called 'Dial before you dig'. That is a message that is sent out on a daily basis on radio, tv and newspapers, warning those who plan to excavate to check with the autorities before they start digging. The pipeline didn't 'rupture', it was holed by an idiot with a backhoe.

It doesn't matter. The pipelines should be better marked or deeper in urban areas. Maybe if it had been double walled it wouldn't have ruptured. I really don't know. All I know is the surest way of stopping leaks is not to have pipelines. 

The industry miscalculated their power to ram things through against the will of the people. 

 

Martin N.

"The industry miscalculated their power to ram things through against the will of the people."

The latest Angus-Reid poll states 69% in BC in favour of building this pipeline even if Horgan wins his court case.

In light of this development, what is your definition of: "the will of the people"?

Martin N.

Rev Pesky wrote:

From  Pondering:

No wonder Burnaby is especially opposed.  As I said, the oil industry made its own bed. 

Pardon me for saying, but it wasn't the oil industry that pierced the pipe, it was a road crew. You may not know this, but in BC we have a very public campaign called 'Dial before you dig'. That is a message that is sent out on a daily basis on radio, tv and newspapers, warning those who plan to excavate to check with the autorities before they start digging. The pipeline didn't 'rupture', it was holed by an idiot with a backhoe.

Ground disturbance is enshrined in legislation that specifies duty of care. One of the most important regulations is that no mechanical excavation is allowed within one meter of where a pipeline is assumed to exist.

In other words, the first step is to locate the line with metal detectors, the second to use hydro vacuum rigs to expose sections of pipe with non-destructive means, the third to mechanically excavate within one meter, fourth to hand dig, using mechanical means to remove the spoil within 30 cm of pipe all under supervision of both the project supervisor and the pipe owner's representative.

NorthReport

 

Cut the BS as we both know there are serious dangers of a catastophic oil spill off Canada's Werst Coast just like the Exxon Valdez disaster and which greatly concerns BCers as documented in the AR poll.

What are you and Pesky doing here on a progressive board anyways?

Martin N.

It's not a suggestion, its' law.

Pondering

NDPP wrote:

'It Hurt': FN Leaders' Pipeline Ownership Proposal Comes As Shock To Some

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/fort-chip-pipeline-proposal-1.4621885

"A proposal by FN leaders in the Fort McMurray Alberta region to own their own pipeline has caught some community members off guard. The communities' leaders announced on April 6 that they either want to buy a stake in the Trans Mountain Pipeline or partner and build another future line..."

I heard about the "build a future line" idea at least a week ago. That is coming from Alberta chiefs and apparently they didn't consult their people on the idea. To risk their money on Trans Mountain at this point would be foolhardy in the extreme. Have they applied for financing? A pipeline is a pretty expensive project. Oil companies have trouble financing them and they take many years to be approved nevermind built. 

I smell a PR stunt. Nobody in their right mind would invest in Transmountain now. 

There have been recent accusations that environmentalists are "red-washing" opposition. First Nations protesters are acting of their own accord. Bands opposing the pipeline are acting in accordance with the wishes of their people. Apparently the group who is suggesting buying pipelines have not discussed it with the members of their bands. 

Pitting FN groups against one another won't help. As Horgan pointed out, they are independent of one another. It's not majority rules. 

Martin N.

NorthReport wrote:
Presenting evidence that counters unrealistic assumptions not based in fact.

 

ut the BS as we both know there are serious dangers of a catastophic oil spill off Canada's Werst Coast just like the Exxon Valdez disaster and which greatly concerns BCers as documented in the AR poll.

What are you and Pesky doing here on a progressive board anyways?

 

It is quite presumptuous of you to wrap yourself in the progressive flag to the exclusion of others based solely on self-righteousness and blind confirmation bias.

Speaking for myself, logic dictates that a self-affirming world view based on emotion and non sequitur rationalization running rampant must be challenged. It's an obligation of citizenship to protect the nation from extremists of any stripe.

Martin N.

"Pitting FN groups against one another won't help. As Horgan pointed out, they are independent of one another. It's not majority rules. "

FN are as diverse in opinions as anyone else and are perfectly capable of deciding their own outcomes without others speaking for them.

NorthReport

Kinder Morgan pipeline supporters and detractors are being swarmed by online 'bots'

https://www.nationalobserver.com/2018/04/20/analysis/kinder-morgan-pipel...

NorthReport

Recent oil spill disasters show why B.C. should be cautious

On March 31, an underwater pipeline carrying oil to a refinery in Balikpapan, Indonesia, broke, spreading crude over 20,000 hectares of Balikpapan Bay. Some of it ignited, killing five fishermen. Area residents experienced health problems including nausea, vomiting and respiratory difficulties, and marine life and mangroves were also devastated.

In mid-January, an Iranian tanker carrying more than 111,300 tonnes of natural gas condensate hit a cargo ship, caught fire and sank in the East China Sea in one of China’s richest fishing grounds. The accident killed all 32 of the tanker’s crew and left an oil slick bigger than Paris — more than 100 square kilometres. Researchers say the spill and fire killed phytoplankton, marine mammals, fish and birds and will have long-lasting consequences.

Meanwhile, in North America and elsewhere, pipeline accidents continue to spew gas and oil into the environment, polluting air, water and land, and affecting wildlife and habitat, as well as human communities. Tanker, pipeline and drilling rig accidents have devastated ecosystems and endangered human health and lives worldwide, from the Gulf of Mexico to the Alaska coast to the Niger Delta.

As disastrous as those accidents are, the consequences of the products reaching their destinations are also horrendous, as burning fossil fuels spills massive volumes of climate-disrupting greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. With the rapacious rush to exploit every bit of gas, oil and coal before the reality and consequences of climate change become too devastating to ignore, we’re likely to see ever-increasing accidental and deliberate fossil fuel contamination.

In the midst of it all, we have Canadian provincial and federal governments bizarrely claiming that expanding oilsands production and pipelines is not only in keeping with our national and international climate commitments, but is actually necessary to them! The government of my home province, B.C., while standing firm in protecting the province’s interests against Kinder Morgan’s obsolete Trans Mountain pipeline project, thinks increasing fracking for the energy-intensive, methane-spewing liquefied natural gas industry is the way to go.

https://www.nationalobserver.com/2018/04/19/opinion/recent-oil-spill-dis...

NDPP

FNs and Metis Communities that have signed agreements or conditional agreements with Kinder Morgan:

https://twitter.com/RussDiabo/status/987339798489780224

NorthReport
NorthReport

Trans Mountain, Trudeau and the B.C.-Alberta feud: A guide to the story so far

 

  • The B.C. and federal governments are jockeying for legal authority over how oil flows through the province, while oil company Kinder Morgan warns that the Trans Mountain pipeline extension may be "untenable” after the trade war it has provoked between British Columbia and Alberta.
  • In Victoria, Premier John Horgan's NDP government, which opposes the Trans Mountain project, plans to file a constitutional reference case by April 30 with the province's Court of Appeal. B.C. hopes to clarify whether it has jurisdiction over the flow of diluted bitumen through the province, Environment Minister George Heyman said Wednesday.
  • In Ottawa, the Trudeau government – which has promised Trans Mountain will be built, with federal financial help if necessary – is planning legislation to affirm and enforce its jurisdiction over the project, Natural Resources Minister Jim Carr told The Globe and Mail on Wednesday.
  • Ottawa is also refusing to commit to disclose predicted climate-change risks if it financially backs Trans Mountain, even as Environment Minister Catherine McKenna is urging Canadian corporations to do that for their own businesses.
  • Alberta's government, meanwhile, is preparing to give itself wide-ranging authority over fossil-fuel shipments out of the province. If a proposed bill is passed, Alberta could tighten its supply of oil and gasoline to B.C. until it relents on the Trans Mountain issue.
  • But a Thursday decision by the Supreme Court of Canada could complicate Alberta's plans. In its R. v Comeau ruling, which involves transporting Quebec beers and spirits to New Brunswick, the court said “a law that in essence and purpose impedes cross-border trade cannot be rendered constitutional,” wording that could be brought to bear against Alberta's energy legislation.

Open this photo in gallery

Feb. 8, 2018: A boat pulls a boom at the Kinder Morgan Westridge Marine Terminal in Burnaby, B.C., at the terminus for the Trans Mountain pipeline from Alberta.

 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-trans-mountain-kinder-m...

NorthReport

Thank you to all the folks that support Kinder Morgan. 

North Atlantic right whales will be extinct in 25 years, scientists say — unless we act now to save them

In an era when species are vanishing 100 times faster than usual, 'the whales are a metaphor for what we have done to the planet'

In this April 10, 2008 file photo, a North Atlantic right whale peers up from the water as another whale passes behind in Cape Cod Bay near Provincetown, Mass.AP Photo/Stephan Savoia, File

http://nationalpost.com/news/world/north-atlantic-right-whales-will-be-e...

NorthReport

And the protests and arrests continue. I hope all Canadians are very proud to see some of their religious leaders being arrested for standing up for their principles.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/4157593/kinder-morgan-arrests-faith-leaders/amp/

NorthReport
Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:

Thank you to all the folks that support Kinder Morgan. 

North Atlantic right whales will be extinct in 25 years, scientists say — unless we act now to save them

Can you connect the dots between right whales and Kinder Morgan?

Do those scientists go on to say that Kinder Morgan is why they're endangered?  Or what drum are you trying to beat, here?

If that's too tough a question, how about "what ocean do NORTH ATLANTIC right whales live in?"  Will you give that one your best stab?

6079_Smith_W

I'll take a stab at it.

This whole venture is unsustainable.

The longer this industry keeps chasing profits before the oil is all gone (which is what the tar sands are) the more drilling, and seismic blasting, and spills we are going to see. That isn't just a problem in the Juan De Fuca Strait.

If they can strongarm Environmental hero Justin Trudeau into bankrolling this, well what is next?

NorthReport

Simple question: Why are Liberal delegates at their current Halifax convention pleading with Trudeau to start walking the talk, and actually be progressive, instead of only talking the talk, and actually being almost as right-wing in practice as the Conservatives? Unfortunately Trudeau although he doesn’t personally believe in it, may do something, at least he will mouth something, but only because of the threat from the NDP.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/politics/grassroots-liberals-pressuring-trudeau-government-to-be-more-progressive-1.3895182

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
the more drilling, and seismic blasting, and spills we are going to see.

Why more spills?  Are ships more vulnerable?  Pipelines weaker?  I don't get that.

bekayne

Mr. Magoo wrote:

If that's too tough a question, how about "what ocean do NORTH ATLANTIC right whales live in?"  Will you give that one your best stab?

Are you trying to tell me the Atlantic is a greater ocean than the Pacific?

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
the more drilling, and seismic blasting, and spills we are going to see.

Why more spills?  Are ships more vulnerable?  Pipelines weaker?  I don't get that.

Triple the number of ships and increase their size in a tight harbour and the risk increases.

Bitumen and dilbit erode pipes at a far greater rate than conventional crude oil or gasoline products.

Willfull blindness is your most annoying behaviour.

6079_Smith_W

Annoying yes. I don't think it is willful blindness.

 

NorthReport
NorthReport

The one good thing, if there is anything, about Trudeau and Notley trying to shove this Kinder Morgan pipeline project down the throats of BCers, is that Trudeau usually says one thing, but does another. Although for once it may be the Courts deciding, and not Trudeau.

https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/mobile/timeline-everything-you-want-to-know-about-the-pipeline-feud-between-alberta-and-b-c-1.3893041

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