Liberal leadership race

1044 posts / 0 new
Last post
janfromthebruce

clambake wrote:

The attacks have already started:

www.justinoverhishead.ca

 

It was quite factual, actually totally factual. I didn't realize that he had got demoted when Rae became the intern leader, but I can understand why.

I also remember watching that third person speech and it made me want to gag. It was just so lame. I thought I was watching a scene from the West Wing or some American rah rah movie.

 

Hunky_Monkey
kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

janfromthebruce wrote:

I also remember watching that third person speech and it made me want to gag. It was just so lame. I thought I was watching a scene from the West Wing or some American rah rah movie.

I agree totally.

However you should keep in mind that West Wing was one of the most popular political type shows and American propaganda films all do really well with the Canadian public. Its a scary thought but Canadian voters just might be susceptible to the Canadian Idol remake of the Liberal party.  The only good news is the election is in two years and maybe the sheen will have worn off his gloss by then.

mark_alfred

kropotkin1951 wrote:

janfromthebruce wrote:

I also remember watching that third person speech and it made me want to gag. It was just so lame. I thought I was watching a scene from the West Wing or some American rah rah movie.

I agree totally.

However you should keep in mind that West Wing was one of the most popular political type shows and American propaganda films all do really well with the Canadian public. Its a scary thought but Canadian voters just might be susceptible to the Canadian Idol remake of the Liberal party.  The only good news is the election is in two years and maybe the sheen will have worn off his gloss by then.

I agree.

mark_alfred

I watched the recent Conservative attack ads directed at Justin Trudeau's Liberals.  One of them made mention of his being opposed to the use of the term "barbaric".  I wondered what that was about.  I think I found it here.

DaveW

Brachina wrote:

Haters guide to Justin Trudeau

http://leftistjab.blogspot.ca/2013/04/the-haters-guide-to-justin-trudeau...

  

well, either he actually IS  like a Kennedy kid, overprivileged and underprepared, or he can recycle himself like Jerry Brown, eclectic son of a long-term,  popular governor, who somehow built himself a centrist electoral base ..... we will see

Stockholm

I'm happy to see the Tories doing the NDP's "dirty work" by attacking Justin's total lack of experience etc... Hopefully it will drive people back to the NDP!

mark_alfred

I was trying to find a video of question period today, to see how Trudeau did.  Anyone know where it can be found?  Apparently he did okay, from a CBC article I saw on it.  The article also has a video of Nathan Cullen discussing Trudeau.  Recommended viewing.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Stockholm wrote:

I'm happy to see the Tories doing the NDP's "dirty work" by attacking Justin's total lack of experience etc... Hopefully it will drive people back to the NDP!

I thought that in the last election the Conservatives attack ads against Ignatieff helped the NDP.  They didn't see the NDP rise in Quebec coming so they pointed most of their guns at the Liberals.  Next election they will spread the pain more evenly between the two parties.

Brachina
Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Does anyone know where I can find info on bank reform under the Libs. I get it thrown in my face all the time that the LPC is solely responsible for the soundness, so-called of Canadian Banks. I am guessing if there was reform, it got pushed at least partially by the NDP. Where can I look and what opinons do people have.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Does anyone know where I can find info on bank reform under the Libs. I get it thrown in my face all the time that the LPC is solely responsible for the soundness, so-called of Canadian Banks. I am guessing if there was reform, it got pushed at least partially by the NDP. Where can I look and what opinons do people have.

Ippurigakko

Stockholm

Justin also supports keeping the Senate exactly as is!

mark_alfred

Are the attack ads on TV yet, or is it just an internet thing so far?

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Arthur Cramer wrote:

Does anyone know where I can find info on bank reform under the Libs. I get it thrown in my face all the time that the LPC is solely responsible for the soundness, so-called of Canadian Banks. I am guessing if there was reform, it got pushed at least partially by the NDP. Where can I look and what opinons do people have.

Here is Paul Martin's response to your question. I present it at face value not to endorse it in any manner.

Quote:

FP: Canada's banks have since been rated the strongest in the world. What's your secret?

PM: The great wave of deregulation and loosening of the [financial] system occurred in the ongoing rivalry between New York and London over which city was going to be the financial capital of the world. At that time, all the G-7 ministers, of whom I was one, were under great pressure to either loosen [or deregulate]. I refused to do this because in Canada we have only six major banks. It was very clear to the superintendent of insurance and me that we simply couldn't afford the risks if one of our banks defaulted. We resisted the siren call of deregulation and in fact tightened up on loan-loss requirements and reserve requirements.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2008/11/10/seven_questions_paul_ma...

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

K, that does not really help much. I would like to links to articles on what transpired. I do not believe the Libs did this on their own. Do you or anyone else have suggestions where I can look for background

socialdemocrati...

I keep saying it, but attacks on Justin Trudeau's lack of experience will backfire. People are sick of "politicians", and the idea that Justin might be a bad politician might lend more credibility to the idea that he represents real change.

The real problem with Trudeau -- which everyone here knows -- is that he represents a friendly face on the status quo. The few rare times he (accidentally) made a policy pronouncement, it was to let foreign countries control the source of Canadian resources, to denounce a national energy strategy, and concede arguments about supply management and the gun registry to Stephen Harper. At best, he's a stooge for the same Liberal cronyism that we saw for 20 years. At worse, he may actually be a shrewd advocate for his Bay Street donors.

mark_alfred

I initially thought the Ignatieff ones would backfire.  But, Ignatieff was a pretty wooden guy who truly did seem out of touch w/ people's realities.  And, by setting the bar so high via declaring him a foreign arrogant superstar who really doesn't care about Canada, he could only fall flat.  But, by setting the bar so low for Trudeau, it could actually help him.  So, rather than declaring he's an outsider (Ignatieff), or has proven himself inept (Rae), or has wrong priorities and will recklessly destroy the economy (as they claimed with both Mulcair and Dion), they're saying Trudeau doesn't have experience, but they aren't anchoring this to anything performance or policy wise.  Any accomplishment of Trudeau then means he exceeds expectations.

mark_alfred

I found a link to Trudeau's first question as leader during question period.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

socialdemocraticmiddle wrote:

I keep saying it, but attacks on Justin Trudeau's lack of experience will backfire. People are sick of "politicians", and the idea that Justin might be a bad politician might lend more credibility to the idea that he represents real change.

The real problem with Trudeau -- which everyone here knows -- is that he represents a friendly face on the status quo. The few rare times he (accidentally) made a policy pronouncement, it was to let foreign countries control the source of Canadian resources, to denounce a national energy strategy, and concede arguments about supply management and the gun registry to Stephen Harper. At best, he's a stooge for the same Liberal cronyism that we saw for 20 years. At worse, he may actually be a shrewd advocate for his Bay Street donors.

I agree, the most effective attack is framing him as more of the same. The NDP MUST clue into this. Everyone who likes him thinks he's new and fresh. We need to show why he isn't, and postively, why we are. But we can't NOT go after him, but have to do it in a way that keeps him from doing a Ronald Reagan "there you go again". That is best accomplished by showing what the Libs aren't and what we are.

clambake

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/04/15/thomas-mulcair-upstages-j...

 

Quote:
Trudeau must have felt like one of The Monkees after they made the mistake of inviting Jimi Hendrix to be their opening act.

 

NorthReport

My understanding is that Justin was just piggy-backing off an NDP issue. This is so typical of the Liberals to jump on the NDP concerns, and so much for real leadership. 

mark_alfred wrote:

I found a link to Trudeau's first question as leader during question period.

jerrym

socialdemocraticmiddle wrote:

I keep saying it, but attacks on Justin Trudeau's lack of experience will backfire. People are sick of "politicians", and the idea that Justin might be a bad politician might lend more credibility to the idea that he represents real change.

The real problem with Trudeau -- which everyone here knows -- is that he represents a friendly face on the status quo. The few rare times he (accidentally) made a policy pronouncement, it was to let foreign countries control the source of Canadian resources, to denounce a national energy strategy, and concede arguments about supply management and the gun registry to Stephen Harper. At best, he's a stooge for the same Liberal cronyism that we saw for 20 years. At worse, he may actually be a shrewd advocate for his Bay Street donors.

I agree that attacks on Justin Trudeau that make him seem a totally inexperienced, whimsical caricature are likely to backfire. We have the example of Ruth Ellen Brosseau in the last election. Voters felt sympathy for her because she was continually and ruthlessly (pun intended) blasted in the media. Furthermore, when they met her and saw she spoke some French, was willing to learn more, and ready to learn on the job they were quite ready to give her a chance. Now, she has turned in an effective MP. If the expectations of Justin are set extremely low and if he has the opportunity to meet them, then he can say why would you listen to other criticisms of me (the ones that truly matter) when I have shown that I am not my caricature -it's only my opponents being negative again. Don't set the bar so low that he can meet it. 

NorthReport

jerrym,

Speaking of Ruth Ellen Brosseau, saw her being interviewed on TV during the recent NDP convention, and she came across as having her act together. Quite impressive actually.

janfromthebruce

Remember the attack ads are aimed at a certain audience, the conservative supporter. The conservative supporter democraphic is older, wants economic stability. If the NDP ran the same attacks, we would look badly because our supporters may think they are cheap.

Anyway, I heard that the Globe and Mail did an editorial on suggesting that Trudeau respond to the attacks. Interesting that. I guess as the Globe and their backers see support for HarperCons waiver, they are now backing their number 2 party, just in case.

Don't remember them ever saying anything about Mulcair responding to attacks, or the years that both the Cons and Libs attacked Jack.

felixr

I like the ads. They make Justin Trudeau look like an idiot, and the "way in over his head" line is something my grandparents would say. I think the idea is to acknowledge that "Canadians" are "in love" with Trudeau, but suggest their new boyfriend may be an idiot who would be a bad idea to put in the Prime Minister's chair.

Brachina

The editors at the vast majority of papers are tools now adays and as useless as a nose ring on a hippo. I expect nothing from them.

I like the ads too. They're funny not scary and they make some good points.

The Liberals point out the footage where Justin looks ridiculus is from a charity event, but that changes nothing, its only symbolic of what Canadians think about Justin anyways. All the ad has to do is seep into our collective subconcious and then be reinforced by Justin's gaffs and general lack of political talent and ideas to solidify.

knownothing knownothing's picture
Albireo

The Andrew Coyne column linked just above is quite good, I think, but the Post version of the same colunmn had the better headline: Justin Trudeau’s inheritance of the Liberal party is pure monarchy. No disagreement from me.

MegB

The best comment I've heard about Trudeau's victory came from Nathan Cullen. Paraphrasing here. "There is a lot of excitement. I thought it was because of the new tie I bought over the weekend, but it was for Justin."

NorthReport

Thanks Rebecca. It was a good interview - what I saw of it.

Rebecca West wrote:
The best comment I've heard about Trudeau's victory came from Nathan Cullen. Paraphrasing here. "There is a lot of excitement. I thought it was because of the new tie I bought over the weekend, but it was for Justin."

6079_Smith_W

Albireo wrote:

The Andrew Coyne column linked just above is quite good, I think, but the Post version of the same colunmn had the better headline: Justin Trudeau’s inheritance of the Liberal party is pure monarchy. No disagreement from me.

Funny.... on the subject of irrational behaviour,  some of those passages might just as well be in reference to Stephen Harper.

 

DaveW

NorthReport wrote:

jerrym,

Speaking of Ruth Ellen Brosseau, saw her being interviewed on TV during the recent NDP convention, and she came across as having her act together. Quite impressive actually.

yes, saw a feature somewhere recently (Montreal Gazette?) about all the young MPs who were skewered in 2011 as accidental winners, and the conclusion was that Brosseau was today a hard-working MP and a good rep for her constituents ...

Stockholm

jerrym wrote:

I agree that attacks on Justin Trudeau that make him seem a totally inexperienced, whimsical caricature are likely to backfire. We have the example of Ruth Ellen Brosseau in the last election. Voters felt sympathy for her because she was continually and ruthlessly (pun intended) blasted in the media. Furthermore, when they met her and saw she spoke some French, was willing to learn more, and ready to learn on the job they were quite ready to give her a chance.

There is a gigantic difference between Justin Trudeau and Ruth Ellen Brosseau. Ruth Ellen is a single mother working as assistant manager of a bar who had a Cinderella like experience of being totally unexpectedley elected to parliament and then being ridiculed as "Vegas girl" and as some total naif etc... she is a sympathetic figure because she could be any of us suddenly put into a challenging position. Justin Trudeau in contrast has lived a life of priviledge and is widely viewed as a rich playboy with a sense of entitlement etc... he didn't accidentally get elected and then work hard to live up to the expectations his job brings with him - he went for the full plunge deciding he should be Prime Minister of Canada for no other reason than that he is rich and pretty and has a famous father.

janfromthebruce

Stockholm wrote:

jerrym wrote:

I agree that attacks on Justin Trudeau that make him seem a totally inexperienced, whimsical caricature are likely to backfire. We have the example of Ruth Ellen Brosseau in the last election. Voters felt sympathy for her because she was continually and ruthlessly (pun intended) blasted in the media. Furthermore, when they met her and saw she spoke some French, was willing to learn more, and ready to learn on the job they were quite ready to give her a chance.

There is a gigantic difference between Justin Trudeau and Ruth Ellen Brosseau. Ruth Ellen is a single mother working as assistant manager of a bar who had a Cinderella like experience of being totally unexpectedley elected to parliament and then being ridiculed as "Vegas girl" and as some total naif etc... she is a sympathetic figure because she could be any of us suddenly put into a challenging position. Justin Trudeau in contrast has lived a life of priviledge and is widely viewed as a rich playboy with a sense of entitlement etc... he didn't accidentally get elected and then work hard to live up to the expectations his job brings with him - he went for the full plunge deciding he should be Prime Minister of Canada for no other reason than that he is rich and pretty and has a famous father.

\

Further jerrym, I got to publicly hear Trudeau join in and bash Ruth Ellen Brosseau in June 2011, at one of public speaking forays at a high school in Ontario. It was disgusting - the manor and privleged born publicly scorn this elected MP. Make no mistake, Trudeau is an elitest, and somehow thinks he had to "work real hard" to get elected. Totally disconnected from any awareness of his privlege and status it brings him. Well maybe not.

Perhaps Trudeau does really belief he is entitled because he is Junior.

wage zombie

janfromthebruce wrote:

Further jerrym, I got to publicly hear Trudeau join in and bash Ruth Ellen Brosseau in June 2011, at one of public speaking forays at a high school in Ontario. It was disgusting - the manor and privleged born publicly scorn this elected MP. Make no mistake, Trudeau is an elitest, and somehow thinks he had to "work real hard" to get elected. Totally disconnected from any awareness of his privlege and status it brings him. Well maybe not.

Any chance there is footage of that?

Albireo

Rebecca West wrote:
The best comment I've heard about Trudeau's victory came from Nathan Cullen. Paraphrasing here. "There is a lot of excitement. I thought it was because of the new tie I bought over the weekend, but it was for Justin."

In yesterday's scrums someone asked Cullen what he thought about Justin, and he responded "...Bieber?"

janfromthebruce

wage zombie wrote:

janfromthebruce wrote:

Further jerrym, I got to publicly hear Trudeau join in and bash Ruth Ellen Brosseau in June 2011, at one of public speaking forays at a high school in Ontario. It was disgusting - the manor and privleged born publicly scorn this elected MP. Make no mistake, Trudeau is an elitest, and somehow thinks he had to "work real hard" to get elected. Totally disconnected from any awareness of his privlege and status it brings him. Well maybe not.

Any chance there is footage of that?

No video that I'm aware of. I'm still checking.

felixr

Albireo wrote:

Rebecca West wrote:
The best comment I've heard about Trudeau's victory came from Nathan Cullen. Paraphrasing here. "There is a lot of excitement. I thought it was because of the new tie I bought over the weekend, but it was for Justin."

In yesterday's scrums someone asked Cullen what he thought about Justin, and he responded "...Bieber?"

LOL

Brachina

http://www2.macleans.ca/2013/04/11/election-2015-harper-mulcair-trudeau-...

 

 Paul makes a good comparison between the success and single failure off Harper's attack ads and compares them to Tony Blair and it hints at why in the long term those ads could be lethal.

Wilf Day

The details of the Liberal Party's continued weakness in most of Quebec are
quite striking.
https://www.vote2013leadership.ca/results/

Across Canada, the average number of ballots cast per riding was 339. In
Ontario it was 466. In Quebec it was 159.

In only 24 Quebec ridings were more than 150 ballots cast, a reasonable
working definition of the riding being alive (if not well).

In 30 Quebec ridings fewer than 100 Liberal Party supporters cast ballots.
The low end was Abitibi-Baie James-Nunavik-Eeyou with 29, followed by
Repentigny with 40, Jonquière-Alma with 41, Roberval-Lac-Saint-Jean with 44,
and Rivière-du-Nord with 46. Even the Montreal riding of La Pointe-de-l'Île
saw only 59 ballots cast (49 for Justin Trudeau, 5 for Joyce Murray, 3 for
Martha Hall Findlay, and 1 each for Martin Cauchon and Deborah Coyne.)
Saint-Maurice-Champlain has benefitted little from the defection of Lise
St-Denis; it saw only 90 ballots cast.

In another 21 ridings between 100 and 150 ballots were cast, including even
Denis Coderre's riding of Bourassa (146) and the riding of Honoré-Mercier
(148) where Pablo Rodriguez narrowly lost in 2011.

The Liberal base in the West Island and the Outaouais is alive and well.
Elsewhere, not so much.

Pierre C yr

OMG Peter Mansbridge interviewing Justin just 2hrs after the Boston attack. Did you see his dropping facial expression? Especially on the question of the Boston tragedy? I thought Peter was letting on that he thought of Justin as a pretty poor speaker and thinker...  Non verbal will kill you everytime. Justin came across as a supremely naive greenhorn... few more months of fluff like this and he will implode.

Pages