Liberal misogynists spew hate against Ruth Ellen Brosseau

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Misfit

Maybe they're just common garden variety MRA, always able and willing.

quizzical

"nothing to see here"

what is to see is the Liberals and Conservatives are all the same using the same propaganda devices to control the dialogue. their corporate ponsors pay large for them to ensure they stay in power. Justin asked for 1.6 million from tax payers on top of what was alreay allocated for internet presence of the PMO, to be able to do this shit.

just call them internet provocateurs.

trying to deny this happening all the time in social media and on the news smith is making yourself an object of hilairty.

Misfit

I really don't want to get the Liberal supporters like Pondering and Debater et all too gushy and excited, and that is clearly not my intention with this, but most Liberals I know are actually quite normal people. And most normal people do not write with the tone and low grade hostility that these trolls seem to have towards feminists and left leaning political organizations like the NDP. I think a lot of people give elbowgate little thought or concern. I also think that many Canadians do genuinely feel that the NDP's reaction is overblown and that they are trying to spin political mileage from it. I also think that some Canadians do genuinely feel that the NDP does shoulder some responsibility for being on the floor of the House of Commons instead of taking their seats. I also think that the majority of Canadians could care less about why the NDP were stalling proceeding and most do not know about the vote on Monday. But beyond that, most normal Canadians would not carry on with the anti-NDP, anti-feminist rants with such vile determination. I think there are some who are Liberals peddling their spin on the matter, but the deeper and more intense hostility is coming from somewhere outside the Liberal camp. That's how I see it anyway.

quizzical

i was listening to some woman's uninformed youtube opinion of this. she is the type of person Liberal provocateurs are trying to reach with success it seems. i just wanna say there's work to do when women are selling misogyny because they're sold on it.

https://www.facebook.com/Advice-From-My-Mom-813346105452770/?pnref=story

voice of the damned

mark_alfred wrote:

Re:  post #45

"His Royal Hotness" -- yes, that's certainly part of it, I think. This is a leader who is into yoga, cooperation, hope and hard work, real change, sunny ways, feminism, consultation.  People invested a lot into that.  So, the fact that the serene His Royal Hotness ("the tenderness of Ghandi with the strength of Apollo") would flip out and turn into The Enforcer is something that must be denied by his followers. 

So, anyone tarnishing the image of His Royal Hotness, watch out.  Cue a false propaganda video to vilify the woman who was injured by him.  Unleash a torrent of attack on social media.  Change the channel from His Royal Hotness' bizarre behaviour to anything else.  Deflect deflect deflect.  And for gawd's sake never ever say anything like, "yeah, I'm surprised at how angry he got -- I still support him but it does seem like he may need some anger management classes or something" --NOOO!  Never admit humanity!  Attack attack attack!  NDP = villains!  Conservative = villains!  Ashton and Brosseau dare speak against His Royal Hotness?  Attack!!

It's no exaggeration to say that there is a strong religious dimension, of the manichean variety, to Montreal Simon's idolization of Trudeau...

Quote:
Now isn't that a slap in the faces of all those ghastly Trudeau haters?

Can't you hear them screaming in agony? And isn't it a lovely sound?

Justin Trudeau, a leader in a far more complex relationship with Canadians than the hapless Con stooges in the MSM can comprehend

So, ecstatic visions of Trudeau-haters practically burning in Hellfire, followed by solemn pronounements as to how Trudeau's connection to the Canadian people is far beyond the comprehension of the hideous infidels.

And I don't think it's out of line to point out that, like many religious obsessions, this one has pretty strong erotic overtones. Simon often references the "hotness" of the Prime Minister.

Unionist

Misfit wrote:
I really don't want to get the Liberal supporters like Pondering and Debater et all too gushy and excited, and that is clearly not my intention with this, but most Liberals I know are actually quite normal people. And most normal people do not write with the tone and low grade hostility that these trolls seem to have towards feminists and left leaning political organizations like the NDP. I think a lot of people give elbowgate little thought or concern. I also think that many Canadians do genuinely feel that the NDP's reaction is overblown and that they are trying to spin political mileage from it. I also think that some Canadians do genuinely feel that the NDP does shoulder some responsibility for being on the floor of the House of Commons instead of taking their seats. I also think that the majority of Canadians could care less about why the NDP were stalling proceeding and most do not know about the vote on Monday. But beyond that, most normal Canadians would not carry on with the anti-NDP, anti-feminist rants with such vile determination. I think there are some who are Liberals peddling their spin on the matter, but the deeper and more intense hostility is coming from somewhere outside the Liberal camp. That's how I see it anyway.

Thanks for (perhaps) the first non-partisan post on this subject. And I share the essence of your assessment (though I'm still chewing on that "most Liberals are normal people" part lol).

And I still think (as I said at the outset) that Trudeau should have at least offered his resignation for his temper tantrum and schoolyard stunt.  

quizzical

mark_alfred wrote:
In fairness, I did see a tweet by Gerald Butts where he was expressing dismay over how REB was being treated.

all well and good. most Canadians have never heard of him.

HoC committee better treat this as serious or violence in the work place and against women will be on the up tick because of Justin's poor role modeling and no consequence.

i'd like to see some women's groups educating women about their inability to perceive the violence against women is happening to REB in the now even though it was just work place violence to begin with.

nittanylionstorm07

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Gee, wasn't it paid Harperite social media shills that were behind everything this time last year?

Must be quite the well-organized and good-paying racket. You wouldn't happen to know where I could send an application, eh?

 

I had been on /r/Canada for a long time, and it was for the most part a congenial place (understandingly disliking Conservatives, though).  It was truly amazing to watch suddenly over the span of a few days at the beginning of the campaign how all of these new users who were strong Liberal supporters flooded the sub and it became a Trudeau upvote party.  NDP supporters would be downvoted, and the up/down votes would almost always happen in groups.   The place became toxic, and the Liberals have kept their shills there to ensure that the NDP ideas are drowned out. 

nittanylionstorm07

Delete double post

Basement Dweller

The spins out there have a paranoid, "grassy knoll" tint to them. Such as REB purposely placing herself in harms way as part of a set-up. The other that if we didn't fully see the elbow, it didn't happen (regardless of the lack of camera angles and the fact Trudeau apologized for it). I'm assuming, hopefully, these are Trumpoids and not Liberals.

MegB

alan smithee wrote:

I'm on the side with the opinion that the Commons should get back to business on real issues.

This is a distraction. BTW,Raitt and Ambrose are just pigs with lipstick

 

Pigs with lipstick? Really? That's an extraordinarily sexist thing to post. Give your head a shake man!

lagatta

Look at the hatred following this misogynist post by Montreal Simon (for whom I had not only a lot of respect, but also affection, though of course I never agreed with the "unite the left" crap, as the Liberals are by no means part of the left. http://montrealsimon.blogspot.ca/2016/05/ruth-ellen-brosseau-now-shes-no...

The "pony tail" comment was particularly facepalm worthy. I'm old enough to be Brosseau's mum, and my hair is tied back right now; I suppose you could call that by the old-fashioned term "pony tail", which predates me by a long stretch. And I certainly never laughed at Trudeau's facial hair adornments. Who gives a shit?

This all makes me very sad.

quizzical, in context, it was wise for REB to accept JT's apology although I doubt very much that it is heartfelt; I'm sure he sees her as someone from his cleaning staff who was accidentallly elevated to a post reserved for his social class.

Simon, who claims to be on the left, should be called out on this. He has decided that I "hate" Trudeau. Perhaps I do hate Harper, but no, not Trudeau. little as I like that type of arrogant private school kid type in general. Trudeau has done some very positive things, but he is fundamentally a defender of his class, with a few modern touch-ups.

Aristotleded24

Pondering wrote:
REB seems to be a lovely woman but anyone male or female that is too fragile to take public transportation is too fragile to be in the HoC. I could just see her getting to work. "Sorry, I was accidently elbowed in the chest on the Metro so I have to take the day off to recover emotionally."

I have no idea why your account is even active at this point, because I'm sure that any man who said this would at least (rightly) be suspended.

You know what else happens to women in crowded spaces on public transit? They get groped, and because of the crowded nature of public transit, it's very easy to pass this off as an "accident." This part I really shouldn't have to tell you about. So in a hypothetical scenario where a male MP had been accused of groping Brosseau, you would say that she's to delicate to handle public transit, therefore, she shouldn't be in Parliament? To say nothing of people with issues like clausterphobia or disabilities who have a hard time with public transit? Should they now be barred from sitting in Parliament?

I also remember when 2 Liberal MPs were accused of sexual harassment and you sided with Trudeau's handling of the situation. Fair enough, everyone is entitled to his or her opinion, but you appointed yourself as the judge and the jury and not only viciously attacked anyone who dared challenge your contention but also female NDP MPs for their handling of the situation as well.

You are truly one sick piece of work.

Stockholm

We all know that Pondering is such a shameless shill for Justin Trudeau that if he dumped a steaming pile of shit in front of her - she would eat it with a spoon and try to convince the world that it was semi-sweet belgian chocolate

Unionist

Apparently one thread wasn't enough for otherwise rational "my side can do no wrong and the other side can do no right" people to freak out against each other, convinced that this 30-second incident is worth declaring World War 3 over.

I'm asking the mods to close this deliberately provocative thread. I'm also asking them to find a way to let this whole toxic thing fizzle out. Not an easy job - especially when the woman-haters have decided to flood social media. But no good can come from this - none.

voice of the damned

Unionist wrote:

I'm asking the mods to close this deliberately provocative thread. I'm also asking them to find a way to let this whole toxic thing fizzle out. Not an easy job - especially when the woman-haters have decided to flood social media. But no good can come from this - none.

I could probably get behind a proposal to close this particular thread, since there is another one dedicated to the overall topic, and opinions about alleged misgyny could easily be posted there.

Can't really see how it would be within the moderators' ability to "let the whole topic fizzle out", without outright prohibiting people from posting on it.

swallow

Close the other thread, it was opened as a deliberate act of trolling. This one, on the other hand, makes an important point about misogyny (and about attacks on Ruth-Ellen Brosseau for her social class - not for the first time, come to think of it). I think it's important to keep open, despite the fact that it provides a platform for team-mate pile-ons and (ironically enough) for more misogyny against Brosseau. 

Pondering

Stockholm wrote:

Pondering wrote:

I would have the exact same response if REB were a man. This is not about gender it's about the NDP over-dramatizing what happened and using violence against women in a manner that damages women.

No, I think you believe that the sun shines out of Trudeau's asshole and you go berserk when anyone reproaches him for ANYTHING at all. Trudeau could declare himself a white supremacist and you would be here day in and day out faithfully parroting his talking points and being his apologist

Having grown up in a life of privilege Trudeau has no clue what life is like for the average Canadian. Even having a mother with undiagnosed bi-polar and dealing with his parents divorce in the public eye does not give him insight because wealth cushioned the experience for him. Had his family been poor, or even average, he would have been raised by a single mother with bi-polar and probably on welfare because of the lack of support. He talked big about mental health but has done nor said nothing to suggest mental health care will be included under medicare for real.

He thinks that trade deals are just great because they are for people of his class although he doesn't understand it in those terms. He believes that what benefits the economy benefits everyone. He accepts the general neoliberal framework and sees his duty as gentling the sharp edges not overthrowing it. 

Trudeau's concern for the less priveleged smacks of noblesse oblige rather than responsibility (based on the exploitation of the 99% by the 1%).

All in all he is a pretty conventional politician except he is more honest and candid. He wasn't kidding when he said he is a retail politician.

What you don't understand is that the left won't win by attacking Trudeau's character or intelligence or anything else. All that does is cause people to jump to his defence, including former NDP supporters, because Trudeau is genuinely a good guy who means well and believes he is the best person to lead Canada out of the dark years of Harper. He's just a priveleged good guy who like most people understands life from the perspective of how they have experienced it and been raised.

He's not a demon. He's just wrong on a lot of issues.

As long as the NDP continues to attack him as a person the NDP numbers are going to stay down.

The NDP is now percieved as angry sore losers who are going to attack the Trudeau government over anything and everything in the hopes of landing a hit.

Trudeau has a massive "benefit of the doubt" bonus on everything he does. That is why this incident reads as Trudeau making a mistake based on his passion for defending the HoC from people trying to impede the workings of parliament and democracy by preventing a vote from taking place. The flip side is that the NDP is being understood as a party set on impeding progress because they didn't win. Like the Conservatives, they are willing to use every conceivable trick in the book to interfere with the democratic workings of parliament. Everything the NDP is doing is going to make Trudeau more and more popular. It is ironic that a decade of moving the NDP to the right to make it more electable is resulting in the NDP looking more like a redundant fringe party than ever before.

Trudeau may live in a bubble but he understands how to win friends and influence the general public. He is wrong, but for the right reasons from the perspective of character.

The NDP executive remains convinced that to win the party has to hug the centre only going as far left as they absolutely must to hold on to their base. It's just bad luck that they had to go against Trudeau. They see things like being against Energy East or trade deals as barriers to winning elections. For that reason they remain intent on trying to sully Trudeau's character more than his policies. The NDP is going to waste the next four years being reactive and attacking Trudeau's character. This will result in cementing the NDP's rep as sore loser wannabe Liberals while Trudeau's personal popularity will lead the Liberals to another majority in 2019.

It's not inevidable. Canadians are farther left than either the US or Britain so a Corbyn or Sanders is more likely to win here but the NDP executive is set on not going there. They will cynically accuse the Liberals and Conservatives as being poor negotiators rather than denouncing the entire frame work of modern trade deals. They will denounce EE as having insufficient environmental protections rather than pointing out there is no way to sufficiently protect the environment without astronomical safety measures that aren't economically fesible.

The traditional left is a morally superior hot mess that has no clue how to gain support. They fail when they take the righteous holier-than-thou approach and they fail when they try to use neoliberal style tactics.

I want to say go ahead and keep your mind closed and nose up in the air Stockholm but it isn't how I really feel. What I feel is completely discouraged. I see the beginnings of a path forward. I think that Canada could shoot past the nordic countries in creating a just society but it won't happen because people like you think you have all the answers and people like myself are unworthy of any respect.

voice of the damned

swallow wrote:

Close the other thread, it was opened as a deliberate act of trolling.

Umm, it was opened by you.

voice of the damned

^ And FWIW, I didn't notice any trolling in the way you opened the thread. The issue was all over the news, so it was quite legitimate to start a thread on it.

Pondering

swallow wrote:

Close the other thread, it was opened as a deliberate act of trolling. This one, on the other hand, makes an important point about misogyny (and about attacks on Ruth-Ellen Brosseau for her social class - not for the first time, come to think of it). I think it's important to keep open, despite the fact that it provides a platform for team-mate pile-ons and (ironically enough) for more misogyny against Brosseau. 

This thread isn't about mysogyny it's about baiting and attacking liberals which is why there are teams. If it was about all the misogynistic backlash against Brosseau there would be no reason to specify "liberal". 

Had the NDP not tried to inflate the incident accusing Trudeau of not being feminist and of deliberately assaulting Brosseau most of the backlash against Brosseau would not have happened. Because the NDP is trying to mischaracterize the incident to use it as a political weapon against Trudeau Brosseau's credibility is being called into question because Trudeau very obviously did not deliberately assault Brosseau.

Men are imagining all the times they might accidently bump into a woman and being accused of sexual assault as a result. That makes them indignant on behalf of all men. Women are thinking of when it has happened to them, and thinking it isn't a big deal while others who have had molestation experiences and had their word doubted are furious that the inflation of this incident, more by the NDP than Brosseau, makes it harder for women to be believed.

What you don't get is that Trudeau genuinely is a nice guy. He became a teacher because he likes kids. He liked stopping on the steps of parliament to talk to an unhappy teen. He likes that he can make people happy by stopping for selfies. He believes in creating consensus. His support for trade deals is based in believing trade deals are good for Canada and we would suffer if the US signs TTP and Canada doesn't. It is not based in a desire to screw the little guy for the benefit of his own class.

Most people are offended by lies intended to damage someone's character. The NDP is partly responsible for the mysogynistic attacks against Brosseau.

The NDP harmed the reputations of the women who were sexually harassed or assaulted by Liberal MPs and they have harmed Brosseau's reputation in all three cases by trying to use the women's experiences as weapons against the Liberals.

Pondering

Too busy to hang around so you can all go ahead and trash me and declare how wrong I am and Trudeau is the devil incarnate and the NDP is pure of heart and was just trying to do the right thing.

Unionist

swallow wrote:

Close the other thread, it was opened as a deliberate act of trolling. 

See, swallow? That's one big problem with duplicate threads. It's gotten so bad that you're confusing the two threads. That's what happens when someone opens a deliberately provocative thread starting "Liberal misogynists..."

This thread is the trolling one. This one here. The other one was opened by you. There's plenty of room there to continue the full conversation.

 

mark_alfred

First motion-6 is gone, and now post #72.  Well well. 

MegB

I'm going to leave this thread open for now. There are a number of excellent posts (well, and some not so great ones too) and the points about the misogyny against Brosseau are good ones. However, if the conversation goes south, I'll rethink.

MegB

Pondering, your inference that Brosseau is just a fragile flower and should suck it up is an insult to all women. It also infers a certain legitimacy to Trudeau's shameful actions, a sort of 'boys will be boys' and you shouldn't be in elected office if you can't take it. What kind of antiquated sexist playbook are you drawing from?

BillBC

two cents worth from a conservative babbler.  Re Brousseau: I will confess that when she originally ran and was elected I had unkind class-based thoughts about her, which I now regret and retract, because she turned out to be a winner: smart and active, and apparently her constituents love her.  So good for her.  Appalling that anyone would attack her...

The thing about Trudeau that I can't decide is this: is he as stupid and vacuous as I always thought he was, his speeches and actions guided by his handlers, or is he smarter than I gave him credit for?  He's certainly nastier and even more arrogant, but that's no suprise.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

I'm with Pondering. This narrative of Trudeau being a monster is hyper partisan to the point of out loud laughing.

Does anyone know what was being deliberated? They were trying to debate dying with dignity. The Conservative whip was holding things up,as well as some NDP MP's. Trudeau lost his temper,he pulled the whip and acccidentally elbowed Ms Brosseau, There's no more to say about this.

Get back to work and pass this bill. Leave the drama to daytime TV.

And to the trolls that are making threats against her,this does not mean they are Liberal supporters. I think the incident was embarrassing but I don't blame Trudeau,Brosseau or the NDP. I blame Gordon Brown for deliberately trying to strangle debate of an issue that is very serious.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
This thread isn't about mysogyny it's about baiting and attacking liberals which is why there are teams. If it was about all the misogynistic backlash against Brosseau there would be no reason to specify "liberal".

There were two Green misogynists, 31 Conservative misogynists, and one Bloc misogynist, but the rest were all Liberals!

Unionist

alan smithee wrote:

Get back to work and pass this bill. 

The bill is no good. It needs to be defeated (but won't be), or amended to be consistent with the Carter decision and the Charter. Have you been following the latest developments? It would be much much better to have no legislation at all. The Supreme Court's decision is good enough. Then, the provinces can regulate assisted dying as they wish, with no Criminal Code hammer in the background. As has been happening with abortion since 1988.

Sorry to divert from the important business of this thread.

 

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Unionist wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

Get back to work and pass this bill. 

The bill is no good. It needs to be defeated (but won't be), or amended to be consistent with the Carter decision and the Charter. Have you been following the latest developments? It would be much much better to have no legislation at all. The Supreme Court's decision is good enough. Then, the provinces can regulate assisted dying as they wish, with no Criminal Code hammer in the background. As has been happening with abortion since 1988.

Sorry to divert from the important business of this thread.

 

Thanks for the link,U. I was under the impression that the courts decided this issue and all that was needed is it passing through the Commons. My bad.

jjuares

alan smithee wrote:

Unionist wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

Get back to work and pass this bill. 

The bill is no good. It needs to be defeated (but won't be), or amended to be consistent with the Carter decision and the Charter. Have you been following the latest developments? It would be much much better to have no legislation at all. The Supreme Court's decision is good enough. Then, the provinces can regulate assisted dying as they wish, with no Criminal Code hammer in the background. As has been happening with abortion since 1988.

Sorry to divert from the important business of this thread.

 

Thanks for the link,U. I was under the impression that the courts decided this issue and all that was needed is it passing through the Commons. My bad.

It is my understanding that the committee that looked at this issue produced two reports, a majority and a minourity report. The minourity report was dominated by the Conservatives on the commiittee and that the majority was dominated by the Liberals. The essential problem with this bill is that strangely enough it seems to reflect the minourity Conservative report more than the Liberal members view.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

jjuares wrote:

It is my understanding that the committee that looked at this issue produced two reports, a majority and a minourity report. The minourity report was dominated by the Conservatives on the commiittee and that the majority was dominated by the Liberals. The essential problem with this bill is that strangely enough it seems to reflect the minourity Conservative report more than the Liberal members view.

That's a big problem. You'd figure the Libs would take advantage of their majority. So far it seems like they're getting their marching orders from the Cons. Pathetic,really.

But I feel more enlightened about this issue, Thanks for the information.

jjuares

alan smithee wrote:

jjuares wrote:

It is my understanding that the committee that looked at this issue produced two reports, a majority and a minourity report. The minourity report was dominated by the Conservatives on the commiittee and that the majority was dominated by the Liberals. The essential problem with this bill is that strangely enough it seems to reflect the minourity Conservative report more than the Liberal members view.

That's a big problem. You'd figure the Libs would take advantage of their majority. So far it seems like they're getting their marching orders from the Cons. Pathetic,really.

But I feel more enlightened about this issue, Thanks for the information.


I am not sure I am totally accurate in this so that is why I said it is my understanding. I was hoping someone who has followed the issue more closely could either confirm or refute my summary. I do know the majority report was expansive, so maybe the Liberals got cold feet. I know the provisions on mental health and minors were controversial.