Maxime Bernier

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Misfit Misfit's picture

It is not the dairy system that needs reform but the butter manufacturers themselves.

 

According to your newspaper article, Canada's standards are set at a minimum of 80% fat for butter and that it can go up to 83-84% as well. French butter has 82-84%.

i also gathered from your article that the method of churning butter plays a significant role as well.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Yes, and lets subsidize pickles too while we are at it. I predict that the demand for pickles will increase because the price will be cheaper.

I'm ordinarily pretty "hands off" in terms of fair markets.  But also:

1.  pickle producers aren't subject to a quota

2.  pickle producers don't dump surplus pickles into the sewer system when their production exceeds that quota

3.  nobody seems to feel that eating pickles are important for healthy bones, and nobody seems to feel that the poor would feed their children more pickles instead of soda pop if they could, except they can't afford to

And FWIW, I'm not trying to singlehandedly bankrupt the dairy industry in Canada, nor force hard-working taxpayers to subsidize food.  I'm just saying (and have been all along) that it seems a bit non-progressive to dump milk into the sewer if it's possible to use that milk without penalizing producers in any way.

Misfit Misfit's picture

Here is a quick article on the difference between North American vs European-Style butter...

Article...

This article says that the French add cultures to their butter whereas North Americans don't.

North American butter is churned differently.

The French ferment their butter a bit to give it a more sour taste.

And unless you are trying to make croissants or a flaky pie crust where your butter is the dominant ingredient, Morth American butter substitutes just fine when baking.

cco

Misfit wrote:

And, our tax system is not progressive at all. The GST, PST, and HST are designed to tax the consumer who purchase goods and services.

The govwrnments keep legislating in lower and lower corporate tax rates so that the multi-billion dollar companies can assume less financial responsibility than everyone else. This maximizes their profits and increases the tax burden on middle and lower class Canadians. That also is not progressive.

The wealthy also get more income tax deductions than lower income people get.

I don't see our tax system as being progressive at all. It is very regressive.

I specified income tax. Sales taxes are indeed regressive, and I support their elimination, raising corporate taxes, getting rid of those exemptions for the wealthy, and cracking down on tax havens. (For that matter, I'm not a fan of free trade agreements, either.) What I don't support is artificial price inflation to give regressive point-of-sale subsidies to a small cartel. If we're going to subsidize, we should just subsidize, openly and out of tax revenue. Hell, open up a collective dairy farm or two, while we're at it. Supply management is like banning the sale of all non-BlackBerry phones to make sure RIM stays in business, the day after RIM gave a massive corporate donation to the governing party. The fact it's discussed as if it's something other than an ugly Obamacare-style compromise to keep private-sector profits up mystifies me.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Perhaps a simpler question should be "what, if anything at all, should the government subsidize then, if it can only be subsidized by unprogressive taxation?

I get that milk, for the children of parents who cannot have "milk" in their budget, is off the table, since subsidizing some milk for poor kids would bankrupt the entire Canadian dairy industry, and force us all to buy "malk" from the Americans, or something.

 

lagatta4

Misfit, making croissants and feuilletés is very much on the table in Québec. More important, fermented products are a boon to allergic and lactose-intolerant people. I'm one of those.

 

 

 

Misfit Misfit's picture

I have always wondered what Quebec does in regards to butter. Do the grocery stores import their baking butter from France, or do butter manufacturers in Quebec churn some of their butter longer and with cultures in order to satisfy local demand?

if Canadian manufacturers feel that cultures are too expensive then perhaps they can churn longer and let the butter ferment a little in order to give it a satisfying robust flavour.

im sorry that you have allergies and lactose problems.  I have ulcers and that can radically alter what you can and cannot eat. I empathize with you.

Misfit Misfit's picture

CCO wrote,

"What I don't support is artificial price inflation to give regressive point-of-sale subsidies to a small cartel. If we're going to subsidize, we should just subsidize, openly and out of tax revenue. Hell, open up a collective dairy farm or two, while we're at it."

CCO, you obviously don't understand what supply management is all about. Canadian dairy farmers are not subsidized. 

If you like subsidized milk and want to pay more for your dairy then move to the United States. Their farmers are heavily subsidized.Their dairy farmers are going bankrupt in record numbers. Their milk costs more to produce.

American dairy farmers are asking Canadians to please support our supply side management of dairy because it is the only system that works.

 

cco

Misfit wrote:

CCO, you obviously don't understand what supply management is all about. Canadian dairy farmers are not subsidized. 

If you like subsidized milk and want to pay more for your dairy then move to the United States. Their farmers are heavily subsidized.Their dairy farmers are going bankrupt in record numbers. Their milk costs more to produce.

Again, American milk costs less than half what Canadian milk does at the point of purchase. Fraser Institute-inspired ignoring of tax brackets for the sake of talking points isn't particularly convincing. But I suppose "supply management: Love it or leave Canada!" is the new progressive anthem.

Misfit Misfit's picture

CCO,

I'm so sorry but your position on supply-management of dairy comes straight out of the Holy Bible of the Fraser Institute.

you are either a right-wing spammer on this board or you simply do not understand this subject matter.

Please do not engage with me anymore.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

<Maybe those entertaining the thought of voting for this dipshit should read this that is directed at young Trump supporters. Ford Nation as well.

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/09/columnist-drops-mic-young-trump-voters-...

Snap out of it!

jerrym

Bernier's team says he will announce the name and logo of his party this week and that three MPs are in talks to join him. Brad Trost says lots of younger Conservatives are attracted to Bernier and that as much as half of the Conservative Campus Club Board could switch over to him, but that older Conservatives are less likely to join his party. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/maxime-bernier-expected-to-unveil-new-p...

 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Misfit wrote:

Yes Canadian dairy farmers do dump surplus milk according to this article. (This is a Globe & Mail anti supply-side management article)

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/milk-surplus-forcing-canadas-dairy-industry-to-dump-supply/article25030753/

so I guesss one needs to assess which is worse, farmers dumping surplus or Canadians losing their dairy industry with farmers going bankrupt just like the article in the previous post shows what is happening in Wisconsin and all across the United States for that matter.

You'd think they could set it up that the extra milk was just donated to homeless shelters and domestic violence shelters, and also to the North. 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
You'd think they could set it up that the extra milk was just donated to homeless shelters and domestic violence shelters, and also to the North.

I think that would bankrupt the Canadian dairy industry and force us all to tug the forelock to the American dairy industry.

At least that's what I've heard when suggesting that pouring milk into the same sewer system that we pour our shit can't be a good thing. 

Perhaps Misfit can tell you why you're totally wrong, and clearly hate dairy farmers?

cco

Misfit wrote:

CCO,

I'm so sorry but your position on supply-management of dairy comes straight out of the Holy Bible of the Fraser Institute.

you are either a right-wing spammer on this board or you simply do not understand this subject matter.

Please do not engage with me anymore.

Naturally. The decade and a half I've spent talking up socialism here was all a red herring to enable me to criticize supply management. Private-sector cartels gouging the poor are a key left-wing value.

Perhaps we can get some mod guidance on whether supply management is a linchpin Babble principle like feminism and anti-racism. From my perspective, there doesn't appear to be consensus even on labour vs. environmentalism or what anti-imperialism encompasses, so protecting the profits of Parmalat while they dump milk down the drain isn't obviously a settled left-wing issue.

Unionist

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
You'd think they could set it up that the extra milk was just donated to homeless shelters and domestic violence shelters, and also to the North.

I think that would bankrupt the Canadian dairy industry and force us all to tug the forelock to the American dairy industry.

At least that's what I've heard when suggesting that pouring milk into the same sewer system that we pour our shit can't be a good thing. 

Perhaps Misfit can tell you why you're totally wrong, and clearly hate dairy farmers?

If nothing else, could they just add culture to the extra milk and create a National Yogurt Reserve?

Misfit Misfit's picture

Again cco,

You never fail to stun me with your lack of knowledge. You wrote,

"so protecting the profits of Parmalat while they dump milk down the drain isn't obviously a settled left-wing issue."

Parmalat doesn't milk the cows.

The dairy farmers receive only a small percentage of what you pay at the store for your milk. The dairy processors, the wholesalers, and the retailers all take their markup on the price.

the dairy farmers are not responsible for poverty in Canada. You talk incessantly about poor people not being able to afford to buy milk. Where are your facts? Where are all the starving children who are suffering because of dairy farmers? 

Show me your stats that dairy farmers are solely responsible for child starvation! I mean it!

Dairy farmers are not responsible for starvation in Canada.

you have taken a provincial jurisdictional issue and have turned the blame away from the provincial governments and placed it squarely on the backs of the dairy farmers.

i find  your lack of knowledge about this subject and right wing mentality most galling

 

 

Unionist

I strongly advise my friends here to stop screaming at each other and attributing nefarious motives, and listen to the YouTube I posted. I love you all, and we need to stick together.

Cody87

Misfit wrote:
BUT...just like with American dairy, the consumers will pay more because they will have to pay the subsidization tax as well on April 30.

And you accuse cco of spouting right wing talking points?

For shame.

You would never say such about universal health care, universal dental, roads, or universal education.

You could make a reasonable argument that the government shouldn't be in the business of subsidizing some industries (such as dairy), but to claim that's due to higher costs paid by the average consumer (as opposed to the wealthy who pays the majority of our countries progressive income taxes) is flatly dishonest.

Misfit Misfit's picture

Cody, Canadian dairy isn't subsidized. American dairy is subsidized and your system is broken. Dairy farmers are going bankrupt left right and centre and your system has no controls on the supply which has driven the price of dairy to rock bottom levels. So to overcompensate, farmers have no alternative but to produce even more which drives the market price even lower. The United States produces way too much dairy so they are illegally dumping it into Canada and are hurting Canadian dairy farmers. 

I NEVER SAID THAT SUBSIDIZATION IS WRONG. I HAVE SAID THAT AMERICAN DAIRY COSTS MORE TO PRODUCE. CANADIAN DAIRY IS CHEAPER!!!

All three federal parties are unified to back supply side management.

American dairy farmers support Canada on Supply-side management.

pkease don't respond. Both you and CCO are totally uninformed.

pkrase read a book and orient yourselves to what actually is going on.

if people cannot afford to buy milk then that is a provincial responsibility and is not the blame of the dairy farmers.

voice of the damned

Unionist wrote:

I strongly advise my friends here to stop screaming at each other and attributing nefarious motives, and listen to the YouTube I posted.

Yeah, instead of everyone having a cow.

Mobo2000

Ug.   VOTD , it's the penalty box for you.   2 minutes for outdated pop culture reference.

Cody87

Misfit wrote:

Cody, Canadian dairy isn't subsidized. American dairy is subsidized and your system is broken.

I'm Canadian. And I never said Canadian dairy was subsidized. I never even said I support or reject supply management. What I said was: your argument that taxpayer-funded subsidization of goods costs the consumer more in a country with progressive tax code is a right wing argument and you should be ashamed of yourself to put the right-wing label on cco.

Misfit wrote:
I NEVER SAID THAT SUBSIDIZATION IS WRONG. I HAVE SAID THAT AMERICAN DAIRY COSTS MORE TO PRODUCE. CANADIAN DAIRY IS CHEAPER!!!

Misfit wrote:
BUT...just like with American dairy, the consumers will pay more because they will have to pay the subsidization tax as well on April 30.

Misfit Misfit's picture

CCO incorrectly put  the right wing label on me and I corrected him that his position is endorsed by Maxime Bernier, the Fraser Institute and many Conservatives.

both you and CCO twist what I say and put it out of context and reduce this discussion into your petty little gong show.

both of you do not understand this topic and it shows. Now leave me alone.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
both of you do not understand this topic and it shows. Now leave me alone.

Then you'll need to leave the topic alone.

You cannot post on a topic, and also say "PLEASE, for the love of GOD, don't reply to the truths I'm spitting!!"

 

Misfit Misfit's picture

Yes I can, and I did. I will simply not respond to their disgraceful behaviour .

this is the Macime Bernier thread anyway and I have tried to relocate this topic elsewhere.

 

jerrym

One commentator on Power and Politics stated that the former Conservative MP for the Louis Hebert in Quebec riding, Luc Harvey, is willing to run for Bernier's party which is likely going to announce it's name and logo on Friday. 

Misfit Misfit's picture

The ConservativeS tend to do well in the city of Quebec and the surrounding areas to the north and east of Quebec City. I think that this will be Bernier's strong territory for starters.

 

gadar

Bernier has been busy calling people. He called the  Canadian Nationalist Party for support the other day, I am sure the poor old lady, that the PM was very rude to, and her people at Storm Alliance are probably going to get a call, if they have not been contacted already. 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-maxime-bernier-confirms...

gadar

I wrote this on Aug 24.

gadar wrote:

Keep an eye on Gurmant Grewal & family here in the lower mainland. 

And today

"Grewal said he would also help Bernier with ethnic outreach, saying he had some success in that in the past."

Marc Emery and Michael Wekerle from Dragons Den are also on board with Bernier

https://ipolitics.ca/2018/09/11/berniers-new-party-draws-first-public-ba...

This fuckin asshole refuses to go away.

bekayne

Marc Emery? How many parties is that for him now?

Misfit Misfit's picture

Didn't he want to run for the Liberals in Vancouver in 2015? If he is flip flopping like that, he can run but he won't win. He'll get some cannibus supporter votes but not much more.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Marc Emery is a fucking idiot. He's also an ex- convict criminal.. Bernier can have him.

Whast does Emery expect? Have all the cannabis shop private? It sounds like something Bernier would do except he's opposed to legal cannabis.

This guy is a dipshit. The only positive about Bernier's new right wing party is he's going to split the Conservative vote. The NDP will probably be the official opposition again. And 4 more years without dealing with SoCons and Libertarians.

 

Misfit Misfit's picture

I hope so but the Bernier party and the Cons can form an opposition coalition.

i also think that the NDP is going to finish in fourth place and lose a lot of seats federally. They may even lose party status.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Misfit wrote:

I hope so but the Bernier party and the Cons can form an opposition coalition.

i also think that the NDP is going to finish in fourth place and lose a lot of seats federally. They may even lose party status.

That's true but would they have the numbers? As for the NDP they are not making much waves. I don't know if they'd lose party status. But who knows at this point. It's infuriating that a majority of Canadians would vote for the right. We all see what is happening in the US. And it's always hard times when they are governing. They have a base that is a solid 25% or 30%. Parilament needs another left wing party. Possibly 2. Too many right wing parties in Ottawa. Same goes for the provinces.

It never looks good. But the rich will love it.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
I hope so but the Bernier party and the Cons can form an opposition coalition.

And we would all get enough irony in our diet.

Aren't they diametrically opposed enemies now?

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
I hope so but the Bernier party and the Cons can form an opposition coalition.

And we would all get enough irony in our diet.

Aren't they diametrically opposed enemies now?

In a few years, they can stage a "Unite The Whites", I mean "Unite the Blight", conference.

Misfit Misfit's picture

Unfortunately, there are only 15 to 20 percent of dedicated loyal left wing people people in Canada. Your idea will split the left wing vote.

The Green Party was started in Calgary by  two oil industry workers who looked like very strong Harper supporters.

Harper was a statistical goon whose motto was "Unite the Right". He also knew that the NDP had no chance of forming government if he divided the left.

ETA...

Sorry Ken, I missed your last post about unite the right.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Misfit wrote:

Unfortunately, there are only 15 to 20 percent of dedicated loyal left wing people people in Canada. Your idea will split the left wing vote.

The Green Party was started in Calgary by  two oil industry workers who looked like very strong Harper supporters.

Harper was a statistical goon whose motto was "Unite the Right". He also knew that the NDP had no chance of forming government if he divided the left.

ETA...

Sorry Ken, I missed your last post about unite the right.

Well then The LPC isn't HALF as bad as people here paint them out to be are they? 

Misfit Misfit's picture

I don't consider the Liberals to be a left wing party. They are way better than the Conservatives but the Liberals are just a softer and mellower pro big business and pro Bay Street party.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

In the same way that "medium" chicken wings are neither hopelessly bland ("mild wings") or inedibly hot ("suicide wings")?

I wonder what chicken wing joints serve the most of?

jerrym

The Toronto Star has confirmed that Bernier registered online domains for “The People’s Party of Canada” and “Parti Populaire du Canada” on Aug. 30. So that is likely the name of the new party. 

Pogo Pogo's picture

Can we become the People's Republic of Canada then?

voice of the damned

Pogo wrote:

Can we become the People's Republic of Canada then?

Heh, I was thinking the same thing.

I'm guessing that "Populaire" doesn't have quite the same political connotations that "People's" does in English?

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Can we become the People's Republic of Canada then?

But what kind of People's Republic?

The Fascistic People's Republic?

Or the DEMOCRATIC People's Republic?

Because I'm sure you agree that one sounds WAY more appealing than the other, yes?  The DPRC?

What if Justin's mother got down a salad bowl from the cupboard and gave Justin a totally stupid bowlcut with it? 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
Can we become the People's Republic of Canada then?

But what kind of People's Republic?

The Fascistic People's Republic?

Or the DEMOCRATIC People's Republic?

I'd go with the "Shiny Happy People's Republic".https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYOKMUTTDdA

 

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

Mr. Magoo wrote:

In the same way that "medium" chicken wings are neither hopelessly bland ("mild wings") or inedibly hot ("suicide wings")?

I wonder what chicken wing joints serve the most of?

C'mon, Magoo, you've used this stupid analogy at least a million times already. Choosing food isn't even vaguely like choosing a government, and the appropriate approach to these 2 choices is totally different. For example, my choice of chicken wing spiciness has no effect on you, but my choice of political party may very well have an effect. Why don't you deal with political arguments using political ideas and gustatory arguments using foody ideas?

 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Choosing food isn't even vaguely like choosing a government, and the appropriate approach to these 2 choices is totally different.

There's not 2 choices.  There's 3.

Don't want food so bland you can't taste it?

Don't want food so spicy you can't taste anything else for a week?

Consider "medium".  A bit of each!

See what I'm getting at?

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

I like how Bernier is taking a page from the Republican playbook and using a name meant to confuse the rubes of this country into thinking it is literally the 'People's Party'

It will actually be the 'Toral Corporatist Supremicist Regime of Canada' A morally bankrupt 100% corporate dominant wasteland where poverty would be exasperated and the rich would become a lot richer. Think there's massive income inequality now? Sit back and watch in horror as Canada becomes Trumpland.

This motherfucker is to the right of the CPC. Mange d'la marde, Fuck you, Max. And take your double speak with you. Hopefully down to the US where you'd fit in quite nicely with the Fascist Party of America AKA The Gang of Puppets AKA the Redpublikkkans. You'd give Orange Hitler a run for his money. Dipshit.

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