Mike Duffy & Pamela Wallin - "We've been 'thrown under the bus' by the Conservatives!"

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Pogo Pogo's picture

I doubt if the NDP would ever appoint Senators.  Unless they appointed almost half the Senate in one swoop it would only legitimize the Senate opposition to the NDP.  I cannot think of a scenario where the NDP would be pushed off its policy for short term political gains.

For Wallin and Duffy, I do feel somewhat sorry about their lack of due process.  Of course then I remember how they were the Conservative attack dogs and them gleefully filling the role and the feeling goes away.

janfromthebruce

They are all in the wrong. Duffy and Wallen both knew they were scamming on their expenses and told by the PMO office that it was okay. PMO was wrong to say it was okay and to try to cover it up.

They all need to be held accountable.

And agree with Rebecca, anyone padding their expense accts would be fired and walked out the building.

Unionist

Pogo wrote:

I doubt if the NDP would ever appoint Senators.

I agree, although I do recall many people professing surprise when the ex-Reform Party started doing so - as well as collecting Parliamentary pensions. Promises are easier to keep when you don't yet have the means of breaking them.

But what do you think about my question:

Why does the NDP motion only refer to the Senate - wouldn't it at least look better if it dealt with the House as well?

 

Unionist

Pogo wrote:

I think that one can make an apples and oranges argument.  That where the House is elected partisan politics is part of the job.

Are you serious? You think it's ok for an MP to campaign for her party while on MP's expenses??

Full disclosure: I don't. That's not what an MP's budget and expenses are for. I actually thought that's what political donations were for, and why they are (supposedly) tightly circumscribed by legislation.

I'd be interested in other babblers' opinions on this point.

 

Pogo Pogo's picture

I think that one can make an apples and oranges argument.  That where the House is elected partisan politics is part of the job.

 

edit to ad: I think I agree though with your main point that their motion was far too encompassing.  Banning politically appointments to political positions from participating in political discourse is a stretch, even though I agree with limits on the extent that the government should pay for their purely partisan activities.

Pogo Pogo's picture

I think we are trying to nail down where we are on a slippery slope.  The NDP motion was definitely at one end of the slope where it banned participation in caucus meetings (can they watch conventions on CPAC?).  But yes we should pay an MP to come home when the main business is participating in a riding political event, but maybe we shouldn't pay a Senator for the same.

Unionist

Pogo wrote:
But yes we should pay an MP to come home when the main business is participating in a riding political event, but maybe we shouldn't pay a Senator for the same.

I think this conversation is highlighting, at least in my own mind, how little I know about what the "rules" are - whether in the Senate, or the House, and whether they are the same.

I wonder if the MPs know the rules.

I wonder if the party leaders know the rules. Remember the Gilles Duceppe pseudo-scandal, which Pauline Marois's camp used to good advantage to keep him from challenging her for the leadership?

 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

MP's go back to their ridings for a varoiety of events. Having mostly been involved with West Coast MP's it is slightly differerent since none of them fly back and forth for just a one day or evening event. If you are in Ottawa and you live in TO then a quick flight home for a party fundraiser might be normal but not out here.

Cops are one exception to the rule that if you are accused of something then you are immediately suspended without pay. They get paid for years while they are under criminal investigation and often even after being charged. Other people in the same situtatiuon of being fired without any reason or proof being offered would be sueing as well. Calling for your ememies to be turfed without even hearing what they are accused of is a very dangerous game. That type of shit is often used against union advocates in workplaces and it is wrong and when something is wrong the wrong should not be contingent on whether or not we like the person accused.

Senators have always been partisan and always will be because it is by definition a political job. I thought the NDP wanted to abolish the Senate not reform it.  So which is it anyways?

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

My friends and relatives tell me that this was a successful fundraiser, especially the dessert auction.  I would love to see Libby post who paid for her travel to Courtenay.  Was it included in the fundraising budget, was it included in her parliamentary expenses or did she pay for it herself and declare it as a donation to the riding.  I am told that her and Kim enjoyed the annual event. 

Quote:

FEDERAL HEALTH CRITIC LIBBY DAVIES WILL BE GUEST SPEAKER AT NDP DINNER

MP Libby Davies, deputy leader and health critic for the federal New Democrats, will be guest speaker at the Comox Valley NDP Annual Fall Dinner Oct. 9.
 
Davies says one of the biggest concerns she will address is the need for more accountable government.

“Stephen Harper has prorogued Parliament yet again, and Christy Clark has decided to avoid a fall session of the
provincial legislature,” she said. “In the meantime, British Columbians aren’t getting action on key issues like the Enbridge pipeline and the senate scandals.

 “I think it’s wrong for governments to dodge tough issues by simply shutting down Parliament. At both the federal and provincial level, British Columbians aren’t getting the accountability they deserve.

 “This makes it more important than ever for people to get involved and speak out.”

Davies’ visit to Comox Valley will take place just days after Parliament finally resumes, and her talk will include recent news from Ottawa. 

http://www.comoxvalleyndp.com/events.html

terrytowel

Pamela Wallin, Patrick Brazeau and Mike Duffy are in the Senate chamber now and are to do battle in the political fight of their lives.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

You should all be watching Power and Politics right now. It's awesome - Mike Duffy just gave a defence - implicated the Prime Minister.

Lens Solution

WOW.  Just heard the Mike Duffy audio from the Senate.  He let loose in the Senate with an incredible performance and is trying to take down everyone, including Harper!!!!  Also went after Senator LeBreton and Senator Tchaychuk.

Lens Solution

Former Mulroney Chief of Staff Norman Spector basically tweeted that this could bring down Harper and lead to RCMP involvement.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Evan Solomon on P&P: "We are in new territory now".  :popcorn

cco

Yeah, the Duffy audio is pretty amazing (though not for the reasons he thinks it is). "Who's gonna buy the heart drugs I need?"

Well, if you own up to living in Ontario, the province would. PEI appears to do the same thing, without even a deductible. Or given you're a wealthy former TV star and perhaps-soon-to-be-ex-senator, here's a radical idea: maybe you could!

If the Senate gig isn't paying well enough, he could always do what Conservatives love to say and just quit and get another job. Not a real job, of course; that'd be far too much to ask. But I'm guessing if CTV won't take him back, there's a radio station somewhere in his beloved PEI that wouldn't mind cutting him a cheque to bloviate for an hour or two every day.

Listening to these crooks who will likely never want for anything in their lives whinge about how they're going to pay their bills when they work for a government dedicated to making it harder for those in genuine need to do the same sets new standards for chutzpah.

Oh, and Mikey, if this were Iran or Russia, I don't think being suspended without pay from your no-show patronage job would be the greatest of your worries. Play that card again when you're behind bars.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Duffy: "The message to Canadians is that we should have TV in the Senate".

 

janfromthebruce

Justin Ling ‏@Justin_Ling 13m

I'm revising my opinion. This scandal is a synthesis of institutional Senate dysfunction and the conspiracy of two parties to avoid scrutiny

Duffy gave the best news report ever today in his career.

and so related and in other senate news of scamming on the public dime

Marc-André Viau ‏@maviau 1h

Liberal Tory same old story: Former assistant to C Kenny quit after spending 1/2 her time on senator's personal tasks http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics

or put another way

Karl Bélanger ‏@KarlBelanger 35m

A new candidate for the Senate Hall of Shame? http://senatehallofshame.ca  #LPC Senator Colin Kenny come on down! http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/politics/story/1.2158666 … #cdnpoli

looks like the perfect moment to plug rolluptheredcarpet.ca

 

terrytowel

Pamela Wallin's friends write letters of support

Some friends and former colleagues of Pamela Wallin are rallying behind the embattled senator.

The group has written individual letters to Prime Minister Stephen Harper and Senator Claude Carignan, the government leader in the Senate, defending Wallin.

Shelley Ambrose, co-publisher of The Walrus magazine, and award-winning writer Anna Porter are among those denouncing the move underway to suspend Wallin without pay. 

The letter-writing campaign coincides with a debate in the red chamber over the motions to suspend Wallin, Mike Duffy and Patrick Brazeau. All three were former members of the Conservative caucus and appointed by Harper.

“It seems both cruel and unnecessary to add to the already completely over-the-top public stoning of Senator Wallin,” wrote Ambrose. “Senator Wallin did not accept money from a member of the Prime Minister's Office. She has not been arrested or charged. Whether she lives in Saskatchewan or Toronto, she certainly did not live in Ottawa and so was always entitled to the housing allowance.”

Porter conceded that Wallin may have made mistakes, but insisted the former broadcast journalist and diplomat did not do anything dishonest.

“Senator Wallin was immensely useful to Conservative candidates and at party events as a carrot to bring in the undecided,” Porter wrote. “She is a great public speaker. Her career is now in ruins, her reputation is mud, her personal life has been destroyed. What possible reason would there be to continue to persecute her?”

Journalist John Gray and television executive Nancy Franklin also wrote letters.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/pamela-wallin-s-friends-write-letters-of...

NorthReport

If any working class person behaved like this they would have been thrown in jail a long time ago. And the Liberals are involved in this up to their eyeballs as well. Scumbags is what they are and we need to abolish the Senate sooner rather than later.

These lying and crooked Liberals and Conservatives need to go to jail.

Lens Solution wrote:

WOW.  Just heard the Mike Duffy audio from the Senate.  He let loose in the Senate with an incredible performance and is trying to take down everyone, including Harper!!!!  Also went after Senator LeBreton and Senator Tchaychuk.

janfromthebruce

I see that the elites are circling their special edition little red wagons. Because by association and class their "perks" are challenged too. So Wallin, for instance, doesn't get that she actually had to reside in Sask. to represent the region she was appointed to.

And why should she? Both Conservative and Liberal patronage appointees or cash for life have been on the dole since it's creation.

Geoff

Duffy could become a national hero. 

quizzical

uh....doubt it....peeps need to read ALL the news......i think anyway.

"In one unexpected take on the issue, Sen. George Baker, a senior Liberal, told reporters that passing the motions would be, in effect, a court sentence because the Senate is a quasi-judicial body. He argued that passing the suspensions would thus foil ongoing police investigations of the three senators. He said it would also mean Harper and his office couldn’t be called to testify in the event of a trial.

“You can’t be convicted twice – double jeopardy,” Baker said. “Legally speaking, brilliant move by the lawyers (at PMO) to get them off the hook.”

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/10/22/stephen-harper-ordered-me-to-repay-disallowed-expenses-mike-duffy-tells-senate/

wonder if conservative voters are embarassed yet? i'[m going to start asking them.

 

cco

A "quasi-judicial body"? So there would've been examples, then, of people (not Senators) charged by the Senate, tried by the Senate, convicted by the Senate, and who served prison sentences based on a vote of the Senate? In that case, maybe we can skip this whole pesky RCMP thing after all.

What do they think they are, the Star Chamber? Even the House of Lords had only appellate jurisdiction (and then only for a small panel of lords), which they lost 8 years ago.

Aristotleded24

Listening to Rex Murphy right now. Knock me over with a feather. A stopped clock is right twice a day.

Unionist

Ah, you beat me to the punch, cco. Mind you, I was just going to say George Baker was an idiot, but thankfully you had the patience to actually ridicule his idiotic statement. If he represents the summit of Liberal intellect, 2015 should be a cakewalk.

 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Here is nice summation of the Harper years from the same piece as the cartoon above,

Quote:

However gratifying Tuesday's events must be to the majority of Canadians who voted for someone other than Harper, they raise one baffling question: How has Stephen Harper flourished for all these years, both as prime minister and before, when his political judgment is patently terrible?

The three senators currently in trouble are Harper appointees: Duffy, Pamela Wallin, and Patrick Brazeau. But they're only the most recent examples of people and policies that somehow seemed to him like a good idea at the time.

Remember Helena Guergis, the prima donna always seated behind Harper in Question Period, who became an unperson overnight? He signed her nomination papers. Or Bev Oda, of the $16 glass of orange juice? He appointed her, then defended her until he didn't, and she departed.

Remember Dean Del Mastro, Harper's own parliamentary secretary and talking-points parrot, now out of the Conservative caucus and facing charges of excessive campaign spending two elections back? Or Vic Toews, the Public Safety minister who divided the world into Harper's friends and supporters of the child pornographers?

At least Toews got out while he could; Peter Kent, as Harper-appointed environment minister, earned Canada an unbroken string of "dinosaur" awards at climate-change conferences. He deserved every one of them. Gary Goodyear, during his stint as minister of state for Science and Technology, refused to say whether he believes in evolution.

Resources Minister Joe Oliver, at 73 a living argument for mandatory retirement at 65, single-handedly ruined the chances for the Enbridge Northern Gateway early in 2012 when he opened the debate with an attack on environmentalists "and other radical groups."

http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2013/10/23/Duffy-Bomb-Raises-Question/

MegB

Duffy and Wallin pleading poverty if suspended would be sickening if it weren't so laughable. "Yeah, we struggle just like you peons". Sure, just like us. It is to laugh.

Other than that, the whole spectacle of Cons eating their young is highly entertaining. I guess Harper figured Duffy and Wallin would fall on their swords, just like Nigel Wright. As if. They're journalists. Doesn't matter if they're *your* journalists Mr. Harper.

janfromthebruce

And this whole idea of due process is bogus. So how does due process work in the public service, for instance? Sent home without pay until "whatever" is cleared up. If it's ruled for you, you get back your pay and stuff.

I'm sorry but somehow seeing these characters plead poverty and what about my rights stuff is just so overthetop of "entitlement".

Unionist

Why all this rage at Duffy and Wallin, who claim they're innocent and entitled to due process.

We don't have to feel sorry for them. We don't have to share their politics, their arrogance, their attitudes, their lifestyle, to be able to look past that and understand they are being crucified because they were caught - and to protect Harper and his inner circle. Understanding that clearly (as we all do), why waste time getting pissed off that they stole some money from the hard-working law-abiding taxpayer (if indeed they did)?

People who cheat on their taxes, fiddle on their expense accounts, are doing bad things. But I'm not joing the feeding frenzy any more than I did with (say) Tyrone Benskin - the opposite end of the wealth and political spectrum - who also was subject to a lot of hand-wringing and tut-tutting here.

And to argue: "Well, they're not getting treated any worse than workers who have their income cut off before getting any due process" - that's not a very good argument.

This is not the kind of politics we should be defending, in my opinion.

MegB

kropotkin1951 wrote:

My friends and relatives tell me that this was a successful fundraiser, especially the dessert auction.  I would love to see Libby post who paid for her travel to Courtenay.  Was it included in the fundraising budget, was it included in her parliamentary expenses or did she pay for it herself and declare it as a donation to the riding.  I am told that her and Kim enjoyed the annual event. 

Quote:

FEDERAL HEALTH CRITIC LIBBY DAVIES WILL BE GUEST SPEAKER AT NDP DINNER

MP Libby Davies, deputy leader and health critic for the federal New Democrats, will be guest speaker at the Comox Valley NDP Annual Fall Dinner Oct. 9.
 
Davies says one of the biggest concerns she will address is the need for more accountable government.

“Stephen Harper has prorogued Parliament yet again, and Christy Clark has decided to avoid a fall session of the
provincial legislature,” she said. “In the meantime, British Columbians aren’t getting action on key issues like the Enbridge pipeline and the senate scandals.

 “I think it’s wrong for governments to dodge tough issues by simply shutting down Parliament. At both the federal and provincial level, British Columbians aren’t getting the accountability they deserve.

 “This makes it more important than ever for people to get involved and speak out.”

Davies’ visit to Comox Valley will take place just days after Parliament finally resumes, and her talk will include recent news from Ottawa. 

http://www.comoxvalleyndp.com/events.html

This would be relevant if the federal NDP had travel expense issues, but according to their most recent audit, they did not. I imagine that, as per usual, party fundraising expenses are charged to the party (unlike what we've seen with the Harper gov't).

mark_alfred

Assuming the Senate continues to have a vote to suspend Wallin, Brazeau, and Duffy, I wonder if they will go through and vote as the PMO wishes (for suspensions).  Part of Duffy's argument was that Senators are to be "sober second thought" independent of the PMO, rather than mere appendages of it (an interesting and somewhat ironic statement given Duffy's past activities).  Anyway, I do wonder if some may in fact defy the wishes of the PMO and not vote to suspend Duffy (or the others).  I doubt it, because, in spite of Duffy's spoken dream of "sober second thought", I'm guessing senators do actually see themselves as meek appendages of the PMO (on the Con side anyway).

terrytowel

Duffy says if he gets suspended he will not have the funds to buy his heart medications!

socialdemocrati...

I check in with the mainstream media once every week or two, and right now it looks like Harper has lost control of the story. The media is almost entirely focused on the Senate scandal. They're even admitting that the NDP is doing a great job of holding them to account.

I saw one journalist repeat a great truism: "it's not about the scandal, it's about the cover up."

We can't let up. People need to zero in on THE COVERUP now. Duffy is one thing. But Harper engaging in a systematic cover-up is a whole other level, and really symbolizes both the control and the corruption of the Conservative party.

janfromthebruce

And all that angst of Mulcair and the NDP crossing the country and engaging citizens in democratic reform and roll up the red carpet sure showed good political instincts.

Pretty difficult for Liberals to pretend to take the higher road when their own sober 2nd thought senators are bringing heat and shining a light where they don't want it to shine. Hard to defend that all the House needs is a makeover with selection of better candidates for Senators when their people are also getting outed as no better and sometimes worse.

terrytowel

If Duffy cannot afford his heart medication, would he qualify for the Onatrio Drug Plan?

bekayne

MAY3280

janfromthebruce

Wallin in her Senate speech: Wallin, like Duffy, says she needs those health benefits.

and believes the Senate "a chamber that has demonstrated it is not prepared to rise above party politics"

Good so she should support abolishing the house of patronage

janfromthebruce

Wallin didn't like the media and how she was shown to public.

 

News media played a role in her downfall, publishing "personal, vindictive" leaks says Wallin.

And I'm folliwng David Akin on tweeter

David Akin ‏@davidakin 36m

RT @TabathaSouthey: Former journo crying about leaks to the media…a bit rich.

janfromthebruce

David Akin ‏@davidakin 33m

Worth remembering: Wallin and Duffy are former stars of the Media Party - anchors/hosts on CTV & CBC.

David Akin ‏@davidakin 32m

#CPC appointed both Wallin and Duffy to use their media status to sell the Senate and sell the #CPC

David Akin ‏@davidakin 30m

Wallin to senators: "Read the motion. (to suspend) today my name is there. Tomorrow, next month, it could just as easily be yours."

hmm, shoutout for solidarity forever here!

janfromthebruce

kady o'malley ‏@kady 56m

Like #Duffy, Wallin highlights the potential loss of health benefits as particularly troubling 'for a cancer survivor."

going to say it again, as others have across the tweeter verse: How often did the Senate ever debate this issue for others say with Cancer or other illnesses?

It's all so rich.

 

 

JKR

What if Duffy and Wallin are being unfairly treated?

I would be impressed if some people from the NDP, Liberals, Greens, BQ, or anybody would have the guts to say that Duffy and Wallin have the right to due process.

janfromthebruce

RCMP seeks Mac Harb’s bank info, alleges ex-senator committed breach of trust
Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/rcmp-seeks-mac-harb-s-bank-info-alleges-ex-senator-committed-breach-of-trust-1.1510133#ixzz2ia60z700

or more to the point

BREAKING NEWS from @CBCNews Former Liberal Senator Mac Harb has been charged with Fraud by the RCMP

JKR

NorthReport wrote:
What about the RCMPPs comments today about Liberal Senator Mac Harb? Is he getting due process?

Since Harb has the ability to defend himself in an open court of law, he is getting due process.

janfromthebruce

Well today in the House, as for concern for due process and all, both Cons and Libs voted down NDP MP Scott's motion for increasing acct in the senate.

While the Conservatives dragged their feet, the NDP developed practical steps to bring more accountability to the Senate immediately. As we move towards abolition, this NDP motion would have immediately made the Senate more answerable to Canadians.

New Democrats were optimistic that the old-line parties would re-evaluate their use of the Senate as an extension of their party organizations—and support our motion. Our practical measures sought to end senators’ partisan activities and limit taxpayer-funded travel to activities directly related to their parliamentary work.

It looks like something like this process just wasn't in the cards for the Cons or Libs. As for due process. It's pretty tough to go there for the due process for a cosy club of political elites who see their club as one of never ending pay, super benefits and allowances. And that they see it as what they deserve.

Anyway, the Senate is a Conservative and Liberal institution and I'm sure they will ensure due process. Due process at work is sometimes being sent home without pay until due process unfolds.

 

JKR

janfromthebruce wrote:
Due process at work is sometimes being sent home without pay until due process unfolds.

Punishing people before a fair process has found that they did something wrong seems likes the opposite of due process to me. Luckily, unions have been at the forefront of supporting due process for workers.

quizzical

cco wrote:
A "quasi-judicial body"? So there would've been examples, then, of people (not Senators) charged by the Senate, tried by the Senate, convicted by the Senate, and who served prison sentences based on a vote of the Senate? In that case, maybe we can skip this whole pesky RCMP thing after all.

What do they think they are, the Star Chamber? Even the House of Lords had only appellate jurisdiction (and then only for a small panel of lords), which they lost 8 years ago.

at first blush i'm willing to bet there's a reason why all of a sudden Stephen Harper decided they should be suspended without pay. basically kicking them out of the senate. and why he suspended parliament sitting and then has the senate do this when it resumes.

it's been a bit over a decade since i learned how the parliament works but.....i think i remember the senate can introduce bills or motions in their own right. the bills or motions have to go through readings and stages then are sent to the house for approval or non. once it gets sent to the house and voted on and wins it becomes legislation. or law as it were. should their motion get senate approval and goes to the house it'll get approval and a law is made denying due process if the government thinks due process should go away. and aren't they into the 2nd reading phase now discussing the whole point of the motion?

anyhowwww....it's my theory of how it'll play out. i'm not married to it or anything and admit i'm trending to think the worst of the PMO. it could easily enough be the end of of Mr Harper too. when i read the senators words it just got me to thinking. the senator and i could be right or wrong it doesn't matter to my sense of self either way. lol if he's right though it's bad news for due process.

Unionist

JKR wrote:

janfromthebruce wrote:
Due process at work is sometimes being sent home without pay until due process unfolds.

Punishing people before a fair process has found that they did something wrong seems likes the opposite of due process to me. Luckily, unions have been at the forefront of supporting due process for workers.

Come on, JKR. Due process is only for people we like. Please don't interrupt the feeding frenzy.

 

janfromthebruce

JKR wrote:

janfromthebruce wrote:
Due process at work is sometimes being sent home without pay until due process unfolds.

Punishing people before a fair process has found that they did something wrong seems likes the opposite of due process to me. Luckily, unions have been at the forefront of supporting due process for workers.

Actually, that may be true and not true as Dr.Dawg showed here in the blog post.

Senate malfeasance, Bob Rae and "due process"

As a lawyer and mediator, Rae is entirely aware that workers in the public service can be suspended without pay while an investigation is on-going. (See last paragraph in point 3 at the link.) One major difference is that managers do the suspending in those cases, whereas the Senators in question are in the process of being judged by their peers.

Pogo Pogo's picture

I don't think the process is at all fair.  I just can't get worked up about it.  It is just so messy.  They admit cheating but said they had a blessing to cheat and then that blessing was taken away but they were told all would be smoothed over.  Now they are being railroaded out of their job.  Personally I don't want due process I want whatever it takes to scare any future politician from sticking their hands into the candy jar.

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