The Monarchy

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6079_Smith_W

@ Uncle John

So how is Quebec's popular campaign to cut their national ties with the crown and boot our their lietenanant-governeur going, anyway? If this is an issue which is that strong there I doubt they would be waiting for Canada to lead the way.

(edit)

Actually (and I mean no slight against anyone's national symbol here) if we want to compare vestigal royal trappings, how does the fleur-de-lis stack up next to the maple leaf, anyway?

NDPP

and besides, the Royals are so full of wisdom like this:

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/story.html?id=4868574

6079_Smith_W

I think you have the abridged version. 

I don't want to risk contravening the policy by making a direct link, but look up "ninety gaffes in ninety years" at the Independent newspaper and you will fine a few more.

One consolation is that it is nice to have a king with a built-in fool.

Sean in Ottawa

I refuse to believe that we cannot walk and chew gum. Surely we can have some people work on removing the archaic negative, colonial, classist, symbolism of the outmoded, irrelevant, elitist, entitled, foreign monarch while others attend to our more urgent priorities. To say we don't have the time is rather a cop-out in my view.

And I think it is more urgent than some people think. With no national authority in our current Head of State as a vestige of colonialism, we have a current PM strutting like a peacock trying to centralize more and more powers into his version of a presidential institution. I think a national debate which has a hope of resolving this into a Canadian Head of State (President) separate from the political Head of Government (Prime Minister) could have more than symbolic benefit. An elected President who where ever she/he may be represents Canada rather than a foreign ex-empire would be a morale booster to our too-often forelock-tugging nation. Can we do this tomorrow?

As for the issue of opening the Constitution -- no we do not need to do this with omnibus changes that will get bogged down. We can address one thing at a time getting consensus for each thing rather than lining up multiple targets for critics to choose from like a candy-store for ornery 19th century imperialists.  I do not believe it would be that incredibly hard in this century to find a Canadian replacement for the foreign, inbred royal circus.

Yeah, I'm Irish Canadian.

 

edmundoconnor

Uncle John wrote:

2. We stop pissing off people who are irked by having the defender of the Anglican faith as the Head of State

I think you'd struggle to fill a bus with the number of people who are genuinely worked up about this.

edmundoconnor

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

I refuse to believe that we cannot walk and chew gum. Surely we can have some people work on removing the archaic negative, colonial, classist, symbolism of the outmoded, irrelevant, elitist, entitled, foreign monarch while others attend to our more urgent priorities. To say we don't have the time is rather a cop-out in my view.

Sure we can, but republicans have had a while to come up with an alternative system. I haven't seen one. I don't think it's too much to ask that before we do away with the current system we have a firm idea of what we're going to replace it with.

So what powers would this President/Head of State/Grand Wallah have? None beyond symbolism/ceremonial duties (like the Irish or German presidents), then a lot of energy has been wasted. You give them some, and you begin to gnaw away at the sovereignty of Parliament (already ragged). Plus, the presidency/whatever instantly becomes a political football, and will be suspect to anyone not allied to the same political cause.

Centralization can happen in any model, mind.

If anyone is thinking that getting rid of the monarchy in some kind of grand gesture to placate Quebec separatists is going to work, I can't really see it. Hardliners who want out will always want out. They'll just blame Bay Street instead of QEII.

Oh, and could someone direct me to the vast number of polls that indicate this is a pressing issue for many Canadians, please? I must have missed them.

I'm Anglo Irish and (soon to be) Canadian, by the way.

Caissa

We Anglicans are hsppy to let her go at any time. Maybe she can defend Roamn Catholicism instead.

Uncle John

Monarchism is even to the right of Libertarianism. Sheesh. Fascism is probably the only thing that is more right wing than Monarchism.

Snert Snert's picture

Quote:

Actually (and I mean no slight against anyone's national symbol here) if we want to compare vestigal royal trappings, how does the fleur-de-lis stack up next to the maple leaf, anyway?

 

Could be the basis for a deal. We ditch the monarchy, they toss the fleur-de-lys, and we'll both have pushed our colonial trappings under the bus.

 

How do you say "But it's tradition!!!!" in French?

6079_Smith_W

@ edmund o'connor

I don't think it's that big a deal. A head of state who is a figurehead should have no political  powers whatsoever, and personally I am in favour of that. I don't think it would be such a stretch to have our governor general - as the position is right now - be our ceremonial head of state. 

Here is a bit of background on where the debate stands now,:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debate_on_the_monarchy_in_Canada

The form that seems most prominent in those polls seems to be an elected head of state, though that could just be the only question they thought to ask.

 

Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture

Get rid of the Queen and install a new symbolic head of state with no power to use the absolute power imbedded in our constitution.  Easy enough I guess.  

I think we need a yearly mail in ballot much like the search for the Greatest Canadian from a few years ago.  Mind you that kind of democracy especially if it is clear the title comes with no power will likely see either King Michael of the House of Buble  or Queen Pamela of the House of Anderson become our Head of State.

Sean in Ottawa

I actually like the symbolic President without much power -- using the Irish Model.

In fact that is a workable model that functions with the parliamentary tradition we have and it would not require any upset or compatibility with what we have--except to reduce the false impressions being created by the PMO

 

Snert Snert's picture

Quote:
I think we need a yearly mail in ballot much like the search for the Greatest Canadian from a few years ago.

 

Remember when Don Cherry made the short list, and the Canadian left was nearly exterminated by an epidemic of Exploding Head? Good times...

Sean in Ottawa

The Irish elect their President-- we can simply add it as a ballot choice for our elections-- no need to have a special separate ballot.

MegB

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