More ravings from Rob Anders

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Pogo Pogo's picture

So in Post 41 you say that you are only participating because no NDPer criticized him when he crossed lines.  Yet in post 50 you quote Stockholm doing just that. 

Michelle

I don't know, I think there's lots of criticism on babble from many babblers when some right-wing dipper MP or MPP or MLA does or says something regressive.  As one of the most (annoyingly?) vocal critics on babble when that happens, I figure the occasional cheer when they do or say something awesome is okay. :)

Unionist

No, Pogo, I obviously never said "no NDPer". And Stockholm's criticism 9 years ago was about Stoffer's opposition to whipped votes. Stoffer's real crime on the occasion was to suggest that Desjarlais had a right to espouse homophobia while sitting in the NDP caucus. Several people here condemned Stoffer on each of these occasions. But not enough. He survives to be praised for an irrelevant outburst like this, while his dirty work carries on.

Everyone knows what Rob Anders is. More should know what Peter Stoffer is.

Anyway Pogo, instead of exposing my inconsistencies, how about telling us what you think of Stoffer, or Anders, or you know, something of substance and public interest?

Unionist

Michelle wrote:

I don't know, I think there's lots of criticism on babble from many babblers when some right-wing dipper MP or MPP or MLA does or says something regressive.  As one of the most (annoyingly?) vocal critics on babble when that happens, I figure the occasional cheer when they do or say something awesome is okay. :)

"Right-wing" doesn't bother me viscerally. Pro-war and anti-basic human rights does. Did I mention Stoffer's views on privacy rights, capital punishment, and his one-man crusade to "improve" the image of LGBT people?

Quote:

During the last session of parliament, NDP MP Peter Stoffer, from Nova Scotia's Sackville-Eastern Shore riding, put forward a private member's bill to force internet service providers (ISPs) to monitor the activities of their clients and to hold them criminally and financially responsible for any illegal material posted online by those clients.

"If you rented your house to the Hell's Angels, you could be held responsible for anything they did," Stoffer told Xtra in 2007. "The ISPs have some responsibility to monitor sites, and if they see something suspicious, they have a responsibility to report it."

Stoffer dismissed the cost to the ISPs, as well as privacy concerns and, indeed, any other objections to his bill, by invoking the need to eliminate child pornography.

"What's the cost of protecting our children, of protecting society?" he said. "The privacy advocates can go pound sand as far as I'm concerned. I have two young children. We should do everything in our power to protect children. I don't believe in capital punishment, but I'm willing to make an exception. If it was my children, you wouldn't have to worry about the law."

Stoffer said gay people should support his bill because of the negative stereotyping they face around child porn.

"I hate the linking of gays and lesbians to paedophilia," he said. "I know many of my friends who are gay and lesbian agree with me on this."

[My emphasis - and my apologies for reprinting these comments.]

From [url=http://www.xtra.ca/public/National/NDP_not_so_queerfriendly-5520.aspx]NDP not so queer-friendly[/url], in Xtra!, September 2008.

Please don't cheer when Peter Stoffer or Pat Martin or the like make vulgar comments to the peanut gallery. They haven't earned that kind of appreciation, even rare.

 

 

Slumberjack

People see two standards being applied here but it's not actually the case.  Lets take dickhead vs. the nicknaming of someone by using female genitalia, the "C" word for example.  Pogo's description is a pretty apt one as it pertains to the use of the term 'dickhead.'  There's no similar correlation that I'm aware of between calling someone a "C-Face" for example, used to describe someone of limited intellect per se.  Apart from all of that, it's useful to weigh the impact of such descriptions one way or another in terms of systemic oppression.  What is the intent and etymology behind such name calling?  Personally I wouldn't waste good scatology or creative descriptions derived from anyone's essentially useful genitalia on Anders or Stoffer.

6079_Smith_W

I count my allies issue-by-issue based on what is actually on the table.

Some anti-choicer agrees with me about public ownership or farm security? I'll take that help, and give the person credit for it, too.

I don't see how anything could possibly get done otherwise, because all of us are in each others' bad books for something. And if there is some sort of secret initiation into the Real Allies Cub  no one has ever asked me to toiletpaper a restaurant or paint anyone's toes blue to prove it.

 

bagkitty bagkitty's picture

For some reason, it looks like the Cons have taken the muzzle off the dickhead asshat:

MP Anders upsets transgender community

After years of little out of him apart from snoring in the House I am a little surprised to have heard from him twice in less than a week. Perhaps his official minders are on vacation?

 

Unionist

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Some anti-choicer agrees with me about public ownership or farm security? I'll take that help, and give the person credit for it, too.

What if it's a white supremacist, who says we need more public ownership to stop lower races from getting too powerful? Will you join him in a press conference promoting public ownership?

Or a well-known Jew-hater who calls out Rob Anders? You'll applaud him and give him a footnote?

Or how about a leader of the Third Reich who is kind to animals? Seek out unity where we can find it, and leave other debates to the side?

The problem with Peter Stoffer is that he is elected under the NDP banner and is given exposure and credibility on that basis. He is certainly entitled to his anti-human opinions. But I'll bet you don't rate those stands with the ones I invented above. And that, to me, reveals a problem.

David Young

I just read where Anders opposes a bill giving transgendered people equal rights because he thinks it will give transgendered men the ability to access women's washrooms where they can have the opportunity to molest children.

Just how crazy is this guy???

 

6079_Smith_W

@ U #58

What I like about Stoffer's reaction in this case is that it was unscripted, unvetted outrage at an outrageous situation - and that he had the presence of mind to make sure he got the basic facts right before expressing himself.

I don't know about you, but I take that as a breath of fresh air, and an indication that there are still some people in that house who are willing to speak from a place of honesty. It is not something I would have expected Layton's family to say, but I am glad someone did.

As for your godwinisms, and other hypothetical situations, am I supposed to tell people I disagree with that they don't deserve to support the same just causes I do? Seems like nonsense to me. And there is a bit of a stretch between that and giving tacit support to things I disagree with. Sorry man, but we are not the only people in the world who matter, and we certainly don't have power to decide who is in and who is out.

And given that it is banned books week. I think I'll leave Jung, Yeats, Leacock, Atwood, Woolf and a number of others on my bookshelves, and risk being pilloried for supporting people with ideas some find objectionable.

 

 

 

Unionist

I think, by reducing what I'm saying to disagreement over "ideas", you genuinely don't understand what I'm talking about. I unite in common cause every day with workers who have "ideas" that would make us both retch. But Stoffer is no worker. He's a star, he's an MP, he's NDP, he's a courageous man who bucks the party and its convention decisions when they're too left-wing for his taste. When he is told "the facts" by the media (you can see him hearing it for the first time on camera, and believing it all), and then reacts as he did, and progressive people who might not know his crimes think "good for him", then it's our duty to remember the record. You want to build a "united front" with all people who are offended by Rob Anders and who feel the need to "protect" Olivia Chow (listen to Stoffer's exact comments - what a chauvinist pig he is)? Go build that movement. I won't be there.

 

6079_Smith_W

Jesus, U. I'm not in your united front, in case you haven't figured it out. Frankly, I don't want to be.

The best I can say is that you and I have some important causes we share; but I can also think of quite a few on which we disagree strongly.

That might explain why I see this a little bit differently than you do. The difference between an MP a regular member is just a matter of degrees  so far as I am concerned. I still lean toward finding points in common rather than points of division.

 

 

 

 

Unionist

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Jesus, U. I'm not in your united front, in case you haven't figured it out. Frankly, I don't want to be.

Lol! I don't have a united front. I was talking about my union. In case you hadn't figured that out. We are workers who vote for all parties, who reflect all prejudices, who support the troops and hate the troops, who abuse their partners and are abused by them, who make racist comments all the time. It's pretty brutal. But we unite, every day, in our common cause.

You don't want to be part of that united front? Easy - just don't get hired in one of our workplaces!

 

6079_Smith_W

Well yes, but we aren't talking about a union.

We're talking about some fool making a really callous and baseless charge, and one of his coleagues calling him on it in a way that, while unconventional, was probably the reaction closest to what many of us were thinking.

I don't care what the man's politics are; I would have been just as happy - happier, actually - to hear it from someone on the government side of the bench. Why would I want to dump all over him for something completely unrelated to this situation?

I agree with him; it's not contingent on whether I think he's worthy of my political support or not.

 

 

nicky

Anders says "the great unwritten story..." was how Mulcair hastened Layton's death.

 

Perhaps a greater unwritten story is how Harper has extended Anders' political life. I am sketchy on details and would welcome further information.

 

What do we know?

1. Anders received the Reform nomination in Calgary West in 1997 after the incumbent MP, Stephen Harper, resigned the seat.

2. In his recent interview Anders stressed how close he was to Harper's father Joseph, who seems to have backed Anders.

3. Anders survived an attempt in 1993 by one Alison Redford to wrest the nomination from him.

4. Local Conservatives, apparently embarassed with Anders, attempted to chlallenge him for the nomination at least one other time. Somehow the Conservative central office confirmed him for the nomination in the last election without a contest, notwithstanding much local opposition.

What are the ties between Harper and Anders? Does Harper go out of his way to protect him?

As someone said in another blog, those photos Anders has of Harper in a dress must be pretty good.

 

 

KenS

I dont know how much the old familiy ties count.

But even if they dont, Anders raises a LOT of money for the party. In other words, he's a loyal foot soldier.

That buys you a lot of protection.

quizzical

lagatta wrote:
quizzical, that is on the same level as calling advanced-cap proletarians "imperialists" because they are not paying a fair price for coffee. Like zero class analysis, hein?

don't know what "advanced cap-proletarians" are. nope no class analysis. i don't know many First Peoples who do. what we know is our land is occupied by e1 else and we're treated like shit.

West Coast Greeny

The fact there were minority parliaments between 2004 and 2011 probably also provided some kind of protection for Anders.

There are old, close ties between Anders and Harper and his family. They've known each other since 1991, when Reform was a couple of Calgary School policy wonks, an angry teacher from Edmonton, and a handful of anti-Francophone, anti-Liberal, homophobes and racists from mostly Western Canada. I imagine that counts for something. 

I think mostly, Anders and Harper are actually friends, because that is the kind of person Harper would actually be friends with. 

 

Unionist

The enemy of Rob Anders is my friend - [url=http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/News/TV%20Shows/The%20National/ID=2287352565]B... Rex![/url]

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

dupe post-self-delete.

6079_Smith_W

Unionist wrote:

The enemy of Rob Anders is my friend - [url=http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/News/TV%20Shows/The%20National/ID=2287352565]B... Rex![/url]

Oh that is good, thank you.

It seems very fancy broken clocks are also right at least twice a day.

 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

I'm guessing that, for his next act, Anders will call Mulcair and Mandela "transgendered terrorist bathroom killers".

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

I just submitted this to the CBC comments section on the Rob Anders transgender bill story(with apologies to Dr. Seuss-who originally wrote this as "Marvin K. Mooney, Will You Please Go?, which the U.S. syndicated columnist Art Buchwald borrowed and used as one of his columns during Watergate, substituting "Richard M. Nixon" for Marvin K. Mooney).  Have no idea if they'll run it:

The time has come.
The time has come.
The time is now.
Just go.
Go.
GO!
I don't care how.

You can go by foot.
You can go by cow.
Robert J. Anders, will you please go now!

You can go on skates.
You can go on skis.
You can go in a hat.
But please go.
Please!

I don't care.
You can go by bike.
You can go on a Zike-Bike if you like.
If you like you can go in an old blue shoe.
Just go, go, GO!
Please do, do, DO!

Robert J. Anders, I don't care how.
Robert J. Anders, will you please GO NOW!

You can go on stilts.
You can go by fish.
You can go in a Crunk-Car if you wish.
If you wish you may go by lion's tail.
Or stamp yourself and go by mail.
Robert J. Anders!
Don't you know the time has come to go, Go, GO!

Get on yout way!
Please, Robert J!
You might like going in a Zumble-Zay.

You can go by balloon...
...or broomstick.
OR

You can go by camel in a bureau drawer.
You can go by Bumble-Boat...
...or jet.
I don't care how you go.
Just GET!
Get yourself a Ga-Zoom.
You can go with a.................
BOOM!
Robert, Robert, Robert!
Will you leave this room!

Robert J. Anders!
I don't care HOW.
Robert J. Anders!
Will you please GO NOW!

 

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