NDP #15

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Brachina

http://bigcitylib.blogspot.com/2013/04/treasonous-ndp-bastards-oppose-fi...

This is funny. Some people are making a big deal that Bouterice questioned Canada's invovlement in WW1. BIg City Liberals response is funny.

janfromthebruce

It is funny!

Brachina

My favour part is where BCL says Mulcair might be getting soft on the Boer War :D

I mean wow that bleeding heart dipper might even want peace with South Africa ;p

clockwise

It's pretty disgusting of the Sun/Tory network to hold on to some 2007 comments and drag them out on the anniversary of Vimy Ridge to score points.  They could have used the blog entry to attack the NDP at any time.  But no... they had to do it now.

And did that talking head actually use the word "bash" and "slam" in a broadcast?  Without being ironic?  Do any of the viewers of that network think she's being patronizing?

 

Brachina

I wouldn't worry, no one really cares, BCL just mentioned it in mockery.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Here is what a real socialist from the WWI era looks like and here is what his funeral looked like after he was murdered for opposing the war.  The workers understood the nature of the imperial war being waged and his murder led to the first general strike in BC history. We can either celebrate working class history or run from it. I chose to celebrate it, see you all at Miner's Memorial in June.

 

 

 

socialdemocrati...

Yeah Sun News talks to a very intense but very closed circle.

felixr

I would rather lionize NDP politicians that changed Canada than DLC folk heros. TC Douglas is my hero and he watched the Winnipeg General Strike from up on a roof, rather than down on the street. Enjoy your trip to Cumberland. It is a charming place.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

"DLC"  What does that stand for?

felixr

Joe Hill by Phil Ochs

felixr

kropotkin1951 wrote:

"DLC"  What does that stand for?

District Labour Council

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

With all due respect felixr, in my opinion, the truly definitive recording of Joe Hill, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8Kxq9uFDes. The Great Paul Robson.

My dad had an old 78 record of this exact same recoridng. He'd play every it every labour day for we kids, and tell we kids, his children, about the Winnipeg General Strike, Tommy Douglas, RB Russel, and the rights of working men and women to fight for what they believed. We owe so much to the great labour activists and CCF supporters like our parents. Watching today's NDP struggling with identifying itself hurts me to the bone in a way I can't put into words.

felixr

Very cool kropotkin and ac. "Pray for the dead and fight like hell for the living" - Mother Jones

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Do you mean the Campbell River and District Labour Council specifically or all District Councils constituted under the CLC Constitution? Here is little piece from the Cumberland Museum about Miner's Memorial.  I think celebrating working class history is way more important than just looking at political figures.  Without the backdrop of the General Strikes in 1919 and the Estevan strike in 1931 people like Tommy would never have been elected. 

My wife and I are members of the Museum and we have deep family ties to the area so I know it well. My wife's Mom has been on the Museum board forever and has been very active for decades in the projects to restore the Chinese and Japanese graveyards. As you can see that is also a big part of the remembrance. In years past I have even contributed three songs during the Friday night Songs of the Workers. It is where I met my wife back when she still lived in Cumberland.

Quote:

For 28 years the Cumberland Museum has played host to an annual commemoration of fallen workers, labour history and contemporary labour issues. The three day event welcomes hundreds of attendees from across Western Canada and as far away as the UK including workers and their families, activists, artists, writers, academics, community leaders, musicians and many others. Our 2013 event is June 20st to 22nd

Friday June 21st join us for our annual “Songs of the Workers” cabaret style evening at the Cumberland OAP Hall at 7 pm. Songs about life, death, work and revolution. Come and listen or sign up to sign 3 songs. Admission by donation.

Saturday June 22nd is a big day with a pancake breakfast at the Cumberland CRI from 9-11, an 11 pm guided tour of the Museum and the graveside vigil at 1 pm at the Cumberland Cemetery with speakers, music, the laying of fair trade flowers on Ginger Goodwin’s grave and a rose ceremony on the graves of all the fallen miners. Unions, families, businesses and individuals can all support the event by ordering a bouquet to have laid in their name.

The afternoon continues with visits to the Japanese and Chinese cemeteries to pay respects and guided walking tours of the historic Village. At 6 pm attendees and community members gather for a big community supper with readings, guest speakers, music and more.

http://www.cumberlandmuseum.ca/events/enjoy/miners-memorial-weekend

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

By the way since this thread drift originated with a comment by Alexandre Boulerice, here is the quote. I for one agree with everything he had to say about WWI. Speaking truth to power is never easy. I am sure Alexandre helped the Orange Wave in Quebec because of his left wing credentials not in spite of them.

Quote:

Writing on a left-wing Quebec blog, New Democrat MP Alexandre Boulerice mocked the conflict as "a purely capitalist war on the backs of the workers and peasants.

"The only ones to have refused this butchery, to have rejected the call of the 'sacred union' within each nation, were communist activists," Boulerice wrote in his 2007 posting on the blog Presse-toi à gauche (Hurry to the left).

Boulerice also sniped at Canadian soldiers involved in the Battle of Vimy Ridge, claiming that "thousands of poor wretches were slaughtered to take possession of a hill."

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/canada-politics/ndp-mp-criticized-calling...

Stockholm

I can find no fault in anything Boulerice wrote. That is exactly what World War One was all about (WW2 was a different story). The tone of his comments unsurprisingly have been distorted by holier than though anglo pundits - reading his posting in French, he in no way "snipes" at Canadian soldiers. On the contrary he expresses sympathy for the huge loss of life they encountered fighting an utterly pointless war.

NorthReport
NorthReport

As I suspected, out of the NDP, the Cons, and the Liberals, the Liberals have by far the worst financial track record in the country.

Not told by Canada's corporate media

Fiscal record of Canadian political parties, Toby Sanger, The Progressive Economics Forum:

"With all the recent news stories — as well as alarm raised by other leaders — about the fiscal and economic impact and record of NDP governments, I decided to take a look at and review the fiscal record of all federal and provincial governments in Canada for the past three decades.

"These results may be surprising to some: they show that NDP governments have the best fiscal record of all political parties that have formed federal or provincial government in Canada.

"Of the 52 years the NDP has formed governments in Canada since 1980, they’ve run balanced budgets for exactly half of those years and deficits the other half. This is a better record than both the Conservatives (balanced budgets 37% of years in government) and the Liberals (only 27%), as well as both Social Credit and PQ governments..."

http://northerninsights.blogspot.ca/2013/04/not-told-by-canadas-corporat...

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Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Stockholm wrote:

I can find no fault in anything Boulerice wrote. That is exactly what World War One was all about (WW2 was a different story). The tone of his comments unsurprisingly have been distorted by holier than though anglo pundits - reading his posting in French, he in no way "snipes" at Canadian soldiers. On the contrary he expresses sympathy for the huge loss of life they encountered fighting an utterly pointless war.

The only quibble I'd have is his decision to reference opponents of the war as "communists"...this isn't historically accurate, since neither Canada nor the U.S.(nor most countries involved in that conflict)actually had Communist parties until the war was over.  It's curious that he'd use a label to describe opponents of the war that didn't include all opponents of the war(at that point, for example, Rosa Luxemburg and Karl Liebknecht self-identified as left-wing Social Democrats, John Reed and most other U.S. leftists were in the Socialist Party, and Emma Goldman, of course, was then and would always remain an anarchist.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

I started an NDP thread that was shut down because someone thought all discussions on the NDP should be on ONE thread(because...well, just because, I guess);

Just wanted to repost this from that thread for any reactions it might get here:

 

Why can't they(on edit: they being the party's "brain trust" of stragetists) accept that there is no such thing as a voter who defends the social wage(but ALSO wants a big war budget, wants the RCMP to be free to act like a modern-day Gestapo. hates unions, and despises social movements and activists?

Why do they not get it that the answer isn't to run a "don't worry...we're safe and you won't notice that we aren't a Liberal or Conservative government" campaign, but instead to run a "the status quo is your enemy-change will be good for you-and activists and the others that the Cons are demonizing are fighting for a better life for all, including YOU" campaign?

Why do they so fear actually trying to make a positive case for a different set of principles, rather than defaulting to the sort of "path of least resistance" politics that not only fail to elect anyone most of the time, but make it impossible for anyone to do anything that matters if they DO happen to somehow get elected?

Canada could be on the brink of a beautiful, transformational moment, but the NDP "war room" seems bound and determined not to let it happen.

It will be a failure if the NDP falls back in the next election.  It will be an equal failure if they form government and you can't tell that they did.

 

Does anyone here take issue with those observations?

NorthReport

I was wondering why the NDP Montreal Convention was planned for the same weekend as the LPC leadership. Amanda on CBC just explained that the NDP convention had been scheduled for a year and a half, so course it is now obvious why this happened. It just reeks of Bob Rae and more LPC dirty tricks. Why do the federal Liberals remind me so much of the Christy Clark-led BC Liberals?

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NorthReport

NDP convention told left must moderate if it wants chance to govern Australian government minister tells the NDP policy convention that left-leaning parties must moderate their ideologies if they want to bring about change.

NDP Leader Thomas Mulcair, right,  joins hands with Raymond Robinson, elder of the Cross Lake First Nation Reserve in northern Manitoba, and Lorna Standingready, of the All Native Circle Conference, during the party's weekend convention Saturday.

 

 

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2013/04/13/ndp_convention_told_left_m...

NorthReport

At NDP convention, Mulcair urges party to start preparing for next election

It was a resounding display of confidence in Mr. Mulcair who leads a party that remained high in the polls for months after he was elected to succeed Jack Layton a year ago but has recently seen support ebb away.

“In a few short weeks, the Conservatives will begin the third year of their disastrous majority mandate. That’s why it’s all the more important to begin preparations to replace them right away,” Mr. Mulcair told his faithful. “In the next campaign, Conservatives will face an NDP election machine unlike anything they’ve ever seen.”

This is a policy convention, not a test of leadership. But Mr. Mulcair is being scrutinized here, perhaps even more closely than the ideas that will form the basis of the NDP campaign platform.

On Friday night, delegates were shown a video about their leader that was based on interviews with his family. His sister talked about the big brother who was a father figure to her from a young age. His sons talked about the pride they have in their dad. It showed Mr. Mulcair with his wife, Catherine Pinhas, who also introduced his speech on Saturday afternoon.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/at-ndp-convention-mulcair-u...

TheArchitect

I was appalled that the NDP leadership invited Bill Shorten to speak at the NDP convention.  I know some people were upset about Jeremy Bird speaking to the convention.  I was perfectly happy to have Jeremy Bird speak.  But Bill Shorten?  This guy shouldn't be allowed anywhere near an NDP convention.

Bill Shorten is a factional chieftain of the ALP's right wing who can lay claim to being the principle architect of the 2010 outster of Kevin Rudd as Prime Minister and his replacement with Julia Gillard—a decision that, I believe, will go down in history as a catastrophic blunder.  Shorten and his ilk were so obsessed with appeasing the big mining companies that they were willing to put the knife to a leader who had won them a historic majority just three years earlier.  They claimed that the move had to be taken because Rudd was losing ground in the polls—a claim they justified by misleading the party caucus with cherry-picked poll data.

Let's look back at a video of one of Mr. Shorten's finest hours.  I mean, what a joke this guy is.  There should be a picture of him in the dictionary next to the entry for "political hack."  Bill Shorten is not someone to whom the NDP should be looking for guidance.

socialdemocrati...

NorthReport wrote:

I was wondering why the NDP Montreal Convention was planned for the same weekend as the LPC leadership. Amanda on CBC just explained that the NDP convention had been scheduled for a year and a half, so course it is now obvious why this happened. It just reeks of Bob Rae and more LPC dirty tricks. Why do the federal Liberals remind me so much of the Christy Clark-led BC Liberals?

Yeah, the Liberal party was definitely trying to steal some thunder, or (worst case) piggyback on the NDP coverage.

But sincerely, it's not like the NDP convention is going to have any earth shattering revelations. The strange obsession with the preamble is much ado about nothing -- it's not enough of a change to mean anything, and otherwise consistent with where the party has been under Jack Layton's rapid reconstruction. I'd rather the media obsess over Trudeau for another week.

NorthReport

I agree with this article in one sense at least - the Party's Constitution, which 99.9% of Canadians could care less about, nor will most Canadians ever read, should have been dealt with at the beginning of the Convention. Get all the, for most people, inconsequential stuff out of the way at the beginning, and then focus on the shortcomings of the government at the end. But let's also not be too naive though about the corporate media's agenda, which is always to look for friction within, in order to try and discredit the NDP.

The NDP stumbles over the 'S' word: Strategy

http://www.rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/nora-loreto/2013/04/ndp-stumbles-ove...

mark_alfred

I checked both the NDP and Conservative websites for any reaction to Trudeau's victory of the Liberal leadership.  There's none yet.  However, on the Conservative website there is stuff about the NDP, including statements deriding the convention proposals.  Likewise the NDP has attacks against the Conservatives on its website.  Perhaps the NDP and Cons both are going to ignore the trite fluff that is the Liberal Party and stick with attacking the serious challengers.

Jacob Two-Two

That would be interesting. It has occurred to me recently that a big offensive from the Cons against Trudeau has the disadvantage of being exactly what everyone expects. It lessens the impact that it seems so automatic and disingenuous, and a failed offensive would be nearly as bad for the Cons as a successful one would be for the Libs. They're already wearing the labels of corrupt and totalitarian. They don't want to seem inept as well. Can they really restrain themselves? They've held back against Mulcair, unsure of how to turn people against him, but Trudeau is a walking target. There's plenty to throw at him, but will it stick? I'm sure they are chomping at the bit to tear him to pieces.

mark_alfred

Jacob Two-Two wrote:

They've held back against Mulcair, unsure of how to turn people against him, but Trudeau is a walking target. There's plenty to throw at him, but will it stick? I'm sure they are chomping at the bit to tear him to pieces.

I wouldn't say they've held back on Mulcair.  Both in terms of advertisements (one 9 months ago and one 5 months ago), and a website attacking not only Mulcair but the entire shadow NDP cabinet, along with constantly throwing barbs at them in the news and House of Commons, they've been in full attack mode against the NDP. 

Regarding the theme of the most recent ad (and the accompanying theme of Con attacks in the media and House of Commons), it's something that could come back to bite the Cons in the ass in the future.  This is the one alleging an NDP carbon tax.  Given the changing dynamic of the Keystone XL pipeline, and the importance that the Americans are now putting on Canada having proactive environmental policy for their acceptance of the Keystone XL, this could come back to haunt the Conservatives.

The attacks on Mulcair came with the attack line, "We can't afford Mulcair's NDP".  With Dion it was "not a leader" and not having priorities, and with Ignatieff it was "he didn't come back for you".  Mulcair was characterized as risky and dangerous for Canada, Dion as weak, and Ignatieff as an arrogant outsider.

socialdemocrati...

The attacks on Mulcair have been a slow attrition in the media, rather than a huge PR blast to the voters. Mulcair is portrayed as a polarizing figure. Based on nothing. Based on that time he referenced an article from that pinko marxist rag "the economist", that there's such a thing as the Dutch Disease. And big business leapt all over him for insinuating that unbridled corporate short sightedness could cause a disease. And the Conservatives called him anti-Canadian, while selling out oil to the Communist Party of China. And Justin Trudeau called him divisive, while saying Alberta was destroying the country.

Jack Layton didn't double the NDP's seat count by winning the media. He won by taking the message directly to the voters.

Jacob Two-Two

Compared to Ignatieff and Dion, I feel like they've held back. My sense is they've been jabbing, hoping for some criticism or angle to catch on with the public so they can base a major ad campaign around it, but so far nothing has taken off. That and they're still stuck in the notion that the Liberals are their real competition.

janfromthebruce

What's interesting is that for all the Libs say that the cons are the enemy, they constantly attack the NDP. But I have to say that the Libs going on and on about being attacked, and wrapping themselves up in "victimhood" may well backfire, especially if the Cons don't do attack ads.

A strategy may be better to really do nothing much of all and ignore them. Thus Liberals constant hyper complaint of being victims of attack ads don't pan out.

Their non positions need to be attacked, not them personally. This is the NDP way.

I thought it rich that they tried to suggest the NDP would come out with attack ads against them - really? Why waste air on "nothing" which is the position of Liberals are now.

Hamiltonian

Question for my fellow Rabblers -- can you help me to devise a list of what has the NDP has actually done as a 3rd place party and then the official opposition. First thing that comes to mind is the 2005 NDP budget. After that, I'm not really sure. I think this work is the message we need to conveying to Canadians. We're not just criticizing, we're offering up ideas & more importantly getting things done.

My second question, other than freezing tax cuts and raising taxes, where are we looking to raise funds? Joseph Stiglitz spoke about growing the pie - what would be related NDP policies?

Thanks Friends!

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

socialdemocraticmiddle wrote:

Jack Layton didn't double the NDP's seat count by winning the media. He won by taking the message directly to the voters.

In Quebec the party went from 1 seats to 59 out of 75 and in popular vote from 12% to 43%.

In Ontario the NDP went from 17 seats to 22 out of 106 and in popular vote from 18% to 26%. 

BC went from 9 to 12 of 36 seats and in popular vote from 25% to 32%.

In Manitoba the party lost half its seats going from 4 to 2 out of 14 and in popular vote from 24% to 26%.

Go ahead delude yourself into thinking that the NDP doubled its votes last time in Canada. The NDP gains primarily came from wiping out the BQ.  By the way under PR the NDP would have a lower percentage of the House's seats since our FPTP system helped the party last election.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_federal_election,_2008

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_federal_election,_2011

socialdemocrati...

kropotkin1951 wrote:

socialdemocraticmiddle wrote:

Jack Layton didn't double the NDP's seat count by winning the media. He won by taking the message directly to the voters.

Go ahead delude yourself into thinking that the NDP doubled its votes last time in Canada.

For the number of times you misquote and misrepresent other people to make your point, you have no credibility to call anyone delusional.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

When confronted with the actual facts another NDP supporter goes directly to personal attacks. If I had said you lied about the facts intentionally then that would be a personal insult because it would include the intent to mislead unlike saying you are deluding yourself which appears to be what you are doing.

I notice that you don't dispute that the facts don't support the spin you put on the last election. So tell me if ignoring the facts and spouting absurd ones instead is not deluding oneself what is a better description?

 

socialdemocrati...

Read the bolded part. You're the only one who tried to make me say something that I didn't.

If you can't give others the courtesy of reading what they said and sticking to the facts, then give us the courtesy of ignoring us completely.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Jack Layton doubled the seat count by going from 1 seat to 49 in Quebec not, "by taking the message directly to the voters."

I did not dispute the fact he doubled the seats only the causal relationship that you claimed as the reason. I used actual numbers not airy fairy platitudes. You know the type of platitudes that people rightfully laugh at when they are spoken by Liberals.

NorthReport

NDP's Recent Track Record  - Not too shabby! Laughing

 

Year / Pop Vote / Seats / 2nd Place

2011 / 30.6% / 103 / 121

2008 / 18.2% / 37 / 67

2006 / 17.5% / 29 / 53

2004 / 15.7% / 19 / 51

2000 / 8.5% / 13 / 25

 

 - punditsguide.ca

 

janfromthebruce

The double of the 2nd place finishes really shows how well the NDP did across Canada in 2011. Looking at how we kept on increasing our 2nd place finishes from 2000, shows the strength and where to build.

Of course we were in minority since 2004, and had a shorter time line between elections, about every 2 years or so.

clockwise

You're being more than a bit offensive, Kropotkin.  You're fully aware that what socialdemocraticmiddle said about doubling seat counts was entirely correct.  You clearly misrepresented what he said.  When challenged on that you latched on to "taking the message directly to voters."  It's perfectly reasonable for members of this board to suggest that that IS why Jack made so many gains in Quebec and elsewhere.

Basically what I want to say is that members here don't deserve to be mocked by you for making the benign statement that NDP gains were as a result of "taking the message directly to voters."

janfromthebruce

I found this blog post thoughtful

Here's Why Removing "Socialism" From the NDP's Constitution Preamble is Superb

Here's the highlight:

[...] we cannot get away from the fact that we have lived through a century in which the word Socialism was both pejoratively and enthusiastically identified with political systems which turned out to be or could be seen to be from the beginning both economically inefficient, politically repressive, culturally sterile. We can't deny that. There's no point in pretending otherwise. The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics was after all, by its own account, socialist. Most communist states described themselves in various ways and various purposes constitutionally and so on, as socialist. 

I don't think there's much point in defending the word. What we have to do is rather different and that is: shift the conversation from abstractions to substance. I am not interested, even if I were to live another 20 years, in trying to promote some abstraction called socialism.  

If we're going to promote abstractions, I'd rather promote Justice or Fairness. 

I'd rather promote Equality.

mark_alfred

Good article comparing the NDP with the Liberals.

knownothing knownothing's picture

Peggy Nash in QP, "The Conservatives are even raising taxes on coffins!" lol

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

The NDP posse gets a new member.  Its okay I have a thick skin and am used to the constant attacks for not cheer leading the NDP on with banal statements.  Thanks for your contribution Clockwise but what you see as mocking I merely see as debate. I think that the statement he made was not very accurate and I stated as much using actual numbers.

But to keep the crowd happy.  Jack Layton was a saint and the NDP is the best party in the whole fucking world. There is that better?

NorthReport

NDP's Recent Track Record  - Not too shabby! Laughing

 

Year / Pop Vote / Seats / 2nd Place

2011 / 30.6% / 103 / 121

2008 / 18.2% / 37 / 67

2006 / 17.5% / 29 / 53

2004 / 15.7% / 19 / 51

2003 - Jack Layton elected Leader

2000 / 8.5% / 13 / 25

 

 - punditsguide.ca

 

clockwise

My point was not to defend the NDP.  I'm as critical of the NDP as the next disillusioned rabble vet.  My point was just to show you what you did there.  Which was:

a.  you put words in someone else's mouth in order to criticize them for something they didn't say/write

b.  when that was pointed out to you instead of apologizing you reached all the way back to BEFORE your reply to find something to, I don't know, bolster your criticism.

That's an unfortunate level of hostility.  You could have just apologized for misreading another member's posting.  You don't need to bully people when they point out your errors.

 

kropotkin1951 wrote:

The NDP posse gets a new member.  Its okay I have a thick skin and am used to the constant attacks for not cheer leading the NDP on with banal statements.  Thanks for your contribution Clockwise but what you see as mocking I merely see as debate. I think that the statement he made was not very accurate and I stated as much using actual numbers.

But to keep the crowd happy.  Jack Layton was a saint and the NDP is the best party in the whole fucking world. There is that better?

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

By the way I fail to see how I put words into his post. I would be really pleased to have you explain why you think I did.  But please PM me so that we can get back to talking politics.

How about that Labrador by-election.  I don't think that taking the message directly to voters is working really well. 

What did you think of the new core value of the NDP that was inserted into the Preamble? I thought it was really poor messaging and am predicting it will come back to haunt the party. I don't think that more than a few NDP members outside of Quebec have every heard of the term and now it is a fundamental value of the party. Personally I think that is very undemocratic and just plain strange.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

K, I believe you that you are a long time but now disillusioned New Dem. But after all of your messages I have to ask, and I would really appreciate an honest answer, do you want the New Democrats to lose badly in the next election? If so, why? And if after that, given that you have said publiclly you won't vote for them, will you start voting for them again. I would really like an answer to these questions. You have nothing really good to say about the NDP, and I'd like to know why. And I'd also like to know if it will ever be different.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

I don't want the NDP to do badly despite thinking they are going to do just that. I am hard on them because they are sitting astride the left of the political spectrum and refusing to discuss any left wing issues, preferring to try and win middle class votes rather than trying change our society and the politcal discourse.

I voted and worked for the federal NDP for at least a decade after I thought its policies were not in line with my political views. I kept working hard because I was electing an MP whose voice I wanted heard in the House. After he was marginalized for speaking on the kinds of issues I thought were important I have been left with an extremely bad taste in my mouth. Its one thing to drift slowly to the centre it is another to muzzle your best MP's. 

I would consider voting for them in the next election if they campaign on a firm commitment to changing the FPTP system to a PR system in their first term of government. No discussions, no referendums just a change to the system the party has outlined in the campaign literature.  For me that would preferably be MMP but there are other systems like STV that I would support as well.

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