NDP #15

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janfromthebruce

And that's how I see it too. The way is not to bash him personally but on his lack of experience and depth of political knowledge.

PoliSciStudent

Brachina wrote:
The below is something I posted to some ones blog to create some perpective because they were concerned about Justin Trudeau. I reposted my comment below, which is a comparison between Justin and Mulcair.

I understand what your concerns are, but the growing creepy messiah vibe amoung some Liberals should tell you all you need to know.

Heck even bigcityliberal calls him teenage Jesus mockingly.

Lets set aside the last names and look at hard facts about Justin vs. Mulcair.

Mulcair has years and,years of experience at the Quebec provincial level in what is possibly the roughest and street fighting enviroment in Canadian politics. He was a cabinate Minister for the enviroment, parks, and, sustainable,development. He is widely held to have been the best and most progressive enviroment minister in North America, with a rep for both results and effiency. He rewrite part of Quebecs constitution to include enviromental protection!

He been industry critic in Quebec amoung other critic roles so he has a wide breath of expertise in a multidude of files.

He got into a major a battle with Charest over ethics and resigned from that government earning major respect for ethics from Quebecers, while ensuring none of Charest crap sticks to him.

He then went on to win a Quebec Liberal stronghold for a party that basicly did not exist in Quebec at the time. He took it for the NDP.

He then spent several years helping Jack build the NDP in Quebec, more often then not he was the day to day face for the NDP when Layton was leading in Ottawa or in Toronto.

He was in the Quebec election ads before he was even leader with Jack.

First he was the NDP fincance critic and then later house leader during a minority.

Oh don't forget deputy leader and Quebec Lt.

Then 2011 came and he was in charge of turning a bunch green twenty somethings and a teenage into skilled and disciplined MPs (all though some MPs also had personal mentors), a mission he accomplismed.

He then fought a 6 month gruelling campaign against major talents like Brian Topp, MP Finance critic Peggy Nash, Charismatic MP Nathan Cullen, Surpremely Lingual Niki Ashton, MP Romeo Saganash and others.

He became leader and many said the party would die without Jack, others said he'd never unite the NDP behind him. The Party is doing,awesome under him, is focused and united, and leading in most polls.

He was key in changing the national dialog on the Oil Sands and dutch disease, as well as turning public option against the Northern Gateway pipeline to the point were Tory minsters are distancing themselves from,Enbridge.

His team is winning the battle to dump the F-junk fighter jets.

He's gone into the heart of Steven Harper territory, the Calagary Stempede and come off smelling like roses.

He's faced attacks, lies, and a butchering of his character in the media and come out on top.

And that's just within the first six months.

He's also a Lawyer experienced at making,arguements, anaylzoping evidence and poking,holes in the arguements of his oppentants.

Justin on the other hand won a changelling race against a Bloc MP. I give critic wear its do.

Oh he has the prestiagous critic role of sports critic!

His dad was Prime Minister

He appeared in a infomercial for the conservacy of Canada.

And best of all he voted for Harper on key regressive bills and motions well over a hundred times. Did he get anything in exchange for supporting Harper anything to help Canadians? Nope. Nothing. It was all free love for Harper.

Tom learned at the feet of Jack Layton

Trudeau learned at the feet of Iggy and Dion.

I do admit he has charisma. But Mulcair can be charming too, with a good sense of humour.

So going toe to toe who do you think will come out on top?

Lets be honest while Justin's last name will ptovide a temp bump in the polls, in the end Mulcair will eat Justin alive.

In the end most people won't care about their backgrounds though. Harper's background outside politics isn't impressive yet he defeated the man who man Canadians thought of as the greatest finance minister ever. It could argued that Dion was the best candidate in 2008 when it came to government experience, yet look what happened to him. Ignatieff also had an impressive background in academia, yet Layton's charisma allowed him to surge past Iggy in support and once again Harper won.

Trudeau may not have experience but he's good looking and charismatic, and sadly in politics that means something. There's a good chance he'll say something dumb that will turn people off, but until that happens I think New Democrats and Conservatives should be a little worried.

socialdemocrati...

Don't be so cynical.

Charisma and good looks? Tell that to Stephen Harper.

Track record DOES matter. But politicians need to have the RIGHT track record. Paul Martin tried to campaign on childcare after 10 years of slashing the social safety net. Michael Ignatieff asked us to rise up against Stephen Harper after being one of the biggest apologists for American imperialism. Wait, sorry, "empire lite".

Stephen Harper's track record helped him get elected. I may strongly disagree with his vision for Canada, but he's been nothing but consistent. He's been saying more or less the same thing for 20 years. He campaigned as a conservative and he's largely governed as one. That's why his base largely trusts him. I'd also say it's why a lot of people who never voted Conservative could say "I trust him as Prime Minister". (Funny enough, the same consistency is a big reason why people trusted Jack Layton.)

For what it's worth, Mulcair has a great track record in all the right places. One of his defining moments is resigning from the Liberal party over environmental concerns, and that's shaping up to be a defining issue in 2015. In contrast, one of his lowest moments is getting sued for defamation by the Parti Quebecois and losing. But that's actually a good thing. That battlescar is important in a federalist party.

And the Liberals underestimate Thomas Mulcair's charisma. They've been trying to stick him with the "angry Tom" label but voters just haven't seen it. Not even a YouTube video. When you do meet Mulcair, what comes across is passion, intellect, and even a little bit of humor. He doesn't need to be Jack. (R.I.P.)

Of course, the NDP needs to take both the Conservatives and the Liberals very seriously. No matter who these guys pick as their leader. But we can win with hard work and organization. We need to keep hammering on the Liberal-Tory record of failures, AND propose achievable, credible solutions.

felixr

Anne McGrath: lobbyist

Serving the almighty dollar. Mood Disorder Society first, weapons manufacturers, big oil, big banks, and other ravagers of the environment next?

clambake

Looks like the NDP = Secret Separatist meme is in full force this week

Brachina

Dion tried to protray himself as an enviromental savior while having a record as enviro minster that was horrifying. That adds to your whole crediblity gap point.

Also it actually hits on something I realized. For all his bad ideas and and dishonorable actions against oppentants and democracy, Harper has kept his promises. He promised to cut the GST and he did. He promised to end the Wheat Board and he did. He promised corporate tax cuts and he did. He promised more equipment to the military and he's spending on it. He promised more jails and its in the budget. Ect...

I hate his idealogy, but I have to admit he's been much better over all at keeping his promises then the Liberals were.

If Mulcair showed the same dedication to keeping his promises when he becomes PM, and I'm he will, that will be awesoke.

Oh and more Liberal smears against Mulcair.

http://puzzledcat.blogspot.ca/2012/09/ndps-thomas-mulcair-bamboozles-med...

mark_alfred

PoliSciStudent wrote:
Ignatieff also had an impressive background in academia, yet Layton's charisma allowed him to surge past Iggy in support

Layton too had an impressive background in academia with a PhD in political science.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

mark_alfred wrote:

PoliSciStudent wrote:
Ignatieff also had an impressive background in academia, yet Layton's charisma allowed him to surge past Iggy in support

Layton too had an impressive background in academia with a PhD in political science.

Mark, thank-you. Nuff' said!

Brachina

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1251373--ndp-shocked...

Mulcair had a lot interesting to say.

Its clear he's still very much in firm support of the Sherbrooke Declaration and unapolgetically so which is the right way to go, his confedience will help reassure Canadians its the right choice.

He handled Marios' victory well, he comes off reassuring in the face of Liberal attempts to stir shit up.

clambake

I see that the NDP have finally given their outdated website a nice facelift. Similar to the Conservatives page, but i'm not complaining. I think a new logo might also compliment the "new" NDP

mark_alfred

Yes, they've gotten rid of any irritating remnants of their past from the site's front page, like Layton or Douglas, that might remind people of antiquated "boiler-plate" language that Mulcair felt was holding the NDP back.

felixr

I like the NDP website facelift. Of course, it is clear they are starting to try and build the same "cult of personality" profile the party did when Layton became leader. I'm not a big fan of it but it does seem to be very effective as a tactic. The NDP is on a roll electorally and in the polls these days. The party might actually start to win power for a change, both federally and provincially. I guess the next existential challenge will be, if you are going or likely to win power, what will you do with it? I'm hoping future NDP governments will be a lot bolder and more imaginative than the NS NDP or the public sector union-dominated BC NDP seem to be.

Brachina

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/09/06/parliamentary_lights

I wish that more Canadian got to read this,artical and could feel the pride I do at the smarts of our NDP MPs.

And I wish Americans would read it and realize how serious a problem they have, not just with the F-35s, but with the people they are electing to the most important jobs in America.

Lou Arab Lou Arab's picture
addictedtomyipod

Thanks for posting that link Lou Arab.  I was really excited to read that Murray Rankin is wanting to represent the NDP in Victoria, replacing Denise Savoise.  What a great candidate and asset he would be to the NDP team!

Brachina

addictedtomyipod wrote:

Thanks for posting that link Lou Arab.  I was really excited to read that Murray Rankin is wanting to represent the NDP in Victoria, replacing Denise Savoise.  What a great candidate and asset he would be to the NDP team!

Yes, his achievements are impressive, his experience is extensive in law, teaching, the enviroment, advising the party on issues and so on, small business (he was a partner in a law practice), he'd make a great addition to the cacus and his enviro rep crushes what little hope May had of the riding going green party.

It is ironic that Denise just announced her retirement what a matter of a couple of weeks and we already have a top tier candiate for the nomination and it so long to get anyone interested in the Calagry Centre nomination.

theleftyinvestor

The federal NDP doesn't have the same gender equity policy as the BCNDP, do they?

The current BCNDP policy is that any time a sitting NDP MLA retires, if she is female, the new candidate must also be female. If he is male, the new candidate must be a woman or a member of an equity-seeking group. And this only applies to retiring incumbents - it doesn't apply in ridings with non-NDP incumbents, or in ridings where the incumbent passes away.

So under those rules, if Savoie were a retring BC MLA rather than MP, Rankin would not be able to run for the nomination.

Brachina

http://www2.macleans.ca/2012/09/06/now-more-than-ever-canadians-are-coun...

A great speech from Mulcair. I like the focus on using the connection to youth the NDP cacus has. Spreading through university campuses and the like seemed a great way to gain votes and gain volunteers, ala Obama 2008 minus his broken promises.

http://www2.macleans.ca/2012/09/06/now-more-than-ever-canadians-are-coun...

Sooo much juicy info from the NDP's plan to releasing a Pan Canada green energy plan, and in time Fiscal and Economic plans, that MPs were being given training in social media amoung other things, plus that Nathan Cullen has been leading experienced NDP debaters in coaching new MPs on asking questions ans debating. I also love how he plans on expanding the program to stuff like speeches, campaigning and other stuff like that.

One things I've noticed is that ironically teaching stuff to others can be a learning experience for the person doing the teaching, so it benifits everyone invovled.

I have to say Nathan Cullen as House Leader was an act of brillance on the part of Mulcair. Nathan has huge potiential and is proving very valuable in his role.

Also of note a minor shadow cabinate shuffle.

mmphosis
addictedtomyipod

More coming forward to announce their candidacy in the Victoria federal by-election.  Elizabeth Cull, former deputy NDP premier back in the day has stepped forward.

The Greens have also had UVic law professor David Galloway throw his hat in the ring.  So they have managed to find someone with a bit of strength to go up against the NDP's Murry Rankin.  Though Rankin appears to be more green than the Green candidate!

For some reason Elizabeth May and the Greens are trying to dupe the public into thinking that sending another Green MP to Ottawa would be more effective than just sending another Liberal or NDP one.  I really don't understand this political play.  Do Green MP's get a two for one coupon to use on votes when they walk through the HOC doors?

 

Can someone please tell me how to start a new thread for the Victoria federal by-election? 

 

Jacob de Zoet

So, just to get this straight: Elizabeth May wants everyone to stand down and give the Liberals a "clear shot" in Etobicoke Centre, on the principle that we don't want to split the anti-troglydyte vote, but plans to run a candidate to split the anti-conservative vote in Victoria, which is _already_ in opposition hands?  Nope, she's not a Liberal party-stalking horse is she?

addictedtomyipod

Jacob de Zoet wrote:

So, just to get this straight: Elizabeth May wants everyone to stand down and give the Liberals a "clear shot" in Etobicoke Centre, on the principle that we don't want to split the anti-troglydyte vote, but plans to run a candidate to split the anti-conservative vote in Victoria, which is _already_ in opposition hands?  Nope, she's not a Liberal party-stalking horse is she?

 

Yes, she appears to no longer walk her talk.  Going up against an already progressive party as a priority does say alot about her.  Although as to her being a Liberal stalking horse, out here I think she is more of a Harper one.  

Brachina

addictedtomyipod wrote:

More coming forward to announce their candidacy in the Victoria federal by-election.  Elizabeth Cull, former deputy NDP premier back in the day has stepped forward.

The Greens have also had UVic law professor David Galloway throw his hat in the ring.  So they have managed to find someone with a bit of strength to go up against the NDP's Murry Rankin.  Though Rankin appears to be more green than the Green candidate!

For some reason Elizabeth May and the Greens are trying to dupe the public into thinking that sending another Green MP to Ottawa would be more effective than just sending another Liberal or NDP one.  I really don't understand this political play.  Do Green MP's get a two for one coupon to use on votes when they walk through the HOC doors?

 

Can someone please tell me how to start a new thread for the Victoria federal by-election? 

 

Emay's own seat is a pity seat and I honestly don't see her as a threat in Victory with anyone less then David Suzuki.

As for how to open a new thread move your cursor up above the list of threads and click on on the words post new thread, it has a red check mark beside it.

A screen pops up. The only parts you have to fillout is the title and the first post. Then hit save. If you want to preview it first hit preview then save.

As for Victoria its Danforth all over again with killer candiaites that make you wish you could split the riding in chuncks so they can all have a riding.

If its like this now, imagine what 2015 will be like and there is hundreds of nominations to be had, not just a couple. An embarrassment of riches.

theleftyinvestor

Well if Elizabeth Cull becomes the MP, that makes it easier. "Oh you live in Victoria? What part of town - is your MP Liz or Liz?"

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Mulcair was inducted into Privy Council today. Here's the oath:

I, __________, do solemnly and sincerely swear (declare) that I shall be a true and faithful servant to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, as a member of Her Majesty's Privy Council for Canada. I will in all things to be treated, debated and resolved in Privy Council, faithfully, honestly and truly declare my mind and my opinion. I shall keep secret all matters committed and revealed to me in this capacity, or that shall be secretly treated of in Council. Generally, in all things I shall do as a faithful and true servant ought to do for Her Majesty.

So help me God.

ps: he's now "Honourable".

theleftyinvestor

Hmm. Is this in order to be able to inform him of matters of national security that he will have to keep secret?

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Why on earth were Charles Bronfman and Conrad Black ever made  members  of the Privy Council???

David Young

Boom Boom wrote:

Why on earth were Charles Bronfman and Conrad Black ever made  members  of the Privy Council???

No big mystery there!

When you're rich and powerful, having your political puppets bestow titles and honours on you so your egos can be stroked has been going on for centuries.  Why so suprised?

It's like Q.C. (Queen's Council) that they give lawyers.  Does it make them a better lawyer?  I doubt it!  But will having extra letters after your name encourage you to contribute to the political party that gave you those letters?  Ya think????

 

Unionist

So it's now Thomas Mulcair P.C.? That's a hat-trick.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

That's the Honourable Thomas Mulcair P.C. to you, Unionist! Laughing

Brachina

theleftyinvestor wrote:

Hmm. Is this in order to be able to inform him of matters of national security that he will have to keep secret?

Yes.

As for Mulcair's title I look forward to when we can call him The Right Honourable Thomas Mulcair P.C.

David Young

Brachina wrote:

theleftyinvestor wrote:

Hmm. Is this in order to be able to inform him of matters of national security that he will have to keep secret?

Yes. As for Mulcair's title I look forward to when we can call him The Right Honourable Thomas Mulcair P.C.

HERE HERE!

 

Todrick of Chat...

Intelligence Assessment Secretariat of Privy Council of Canada

The Intelligence Assessment Secretariat provides the Privy Council Office and other senior government clients with original, policy-neutral assessments of foreign developments and trends that may affect Canadian interests.

The Staff coordinates assessment work that involves more than one federal department or agency. It also helps foster and strengthen relationships with allied international assessment organizations.

http://www.pco-bcp.gc.ca/index.asp?lang=eng&page=secretariats&sub=ias-bei&doc=ias-bei-eng.htm

As I said in the Iran thread, Thomas Mulcair now has access to high levels of national intelligence. 

Edit: He has has likley had access for sometime to this information.

 

 

mark_alfred

mmphosis wrote:

 

http://www.ndp.ca/platform/

 

 

Regarding your pointing out the 404 error of the above link, typically platforms come out during elections.  However, I'll agree that the NDP site is conspicuously empty when it comes to stating a position on issues.  Both the Liberals and Conservatives have stuff about their general platform-like stands on issues on their sites, whereas the NDP really don't (at least that I could find). 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

I am glad to hear that from now on the NDP's policy will be determined by the briefing notes they get from Harper's minions. After listening to various MP's spouting the Viagra crap I have my doubts whether they are up to the task of fettering out the lies and bullshit they are inevitably going to be fed.

theleftyinvestor

How many living folks of current NDP affiliation are in the Privy Council? So far as I can tell, no other MPs.

Bill Blaikie, Audrey McLaughlin, Ed Broadbent, Howard Pawley, Roy Romanow, Lorne Nystrom. Am I missing anyone?

Cause I guess Mulcair won't be able to talk this stuff over with his caucus. The next closest thing he might have available is the "caucus" of NDP Privy Council members.

David Young

Aren't all Provincial Premiers invited to become members of the Privy Council?  The list would have to include Barrett, Clark, Harcourt, Calvert, Doer, Selinger and Dexter too, wouldn't it?

 

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Current Chronological List of Members of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada

(as of May 23, 2012 - does not include recently sworn-in members like Mulcair)

Unionist

Boom Boom wrote:

Current Chronological List of Members of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada

(as of May 23, 2012 - does not include recently sworn-in members like Mulcair)

Gee, thanks for that list, Boom Boom - now I have to go eat my breakfast again.

Speaking of which, can I have a Council to look after my privy too?

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

A real 'rogues gallery', eh Unionist? Laughing

 

ETA: Otto Lang is on that list - I worked as a program officer under his watch in the early 1970s.

ETA: Nobel Prize winner John Polanyi is also on that list - I attended lectures by him at two universities in Ontario (Toronto; and Trent). He gave the Convocation Address at my graduation from Trent in 1977.

mark_alfred

Papers are reporting that the Conservatives have started attacking the NDP in earnest, with the theme being that the NDP will raise taxes (specifically a carbon tax).  Mulcair has responded that that is a "lie".

One thought I have is that perhaps it's a good thing that the Conservatives have decided that the NDP are now the threat to be attacked.  Previously they seemed to still be worried about the Liberals, but presumably they've decided that the Liberals really aren't a threat, and the NDP needs their full attention.  So, it is affirmed that the NDP are growing and are seen as the threat to the Conservatives.

While I agree that it's a lie to equate cap and trade with the regressive flat carbon tax, I think it's unfortunate that the NDP are in the position of having to get all huffy about the issue of raising taxes (reminds me of the Liberals getting all huffy about coalitions).  There's a structural deficit, and government revenues in the form of some sort of tax increase needs to happen.  So, hotly contesting their claims about a tax unfortunately feeds the notion that all taxes are bad.  It would have been better for the NDP from the start to frame the tax argument in our own progressive way (IE, by campaigning on progressive taxes as a means to deal with government revenue and the economy).  It may be obvious that I favoured Topp over Mulcair.  But that notwithstanding, hopefully the mud that the Conservatives are throwing won't stick, and the NDP will continue to climb in the polls and be elected government in 2015.

theleftyinvestor

Well then I guess we better hope the NDP comes through on electoral reform, so that if they stray too far we can find other parties to apply meaningful leverage :P

Wilf Day

theleftyinvestor wrote:

How many living folks of current NDP affiliation are in the Privy Council? So far as I can tell, no other MPs.

Bill Blaikie, Audrey McLaughlin, Ed Broadbent, Howard Pawley, Roy Romanow, Lorne Nystrom. Am I missing anyone?

Cause I guess Mulcair won't be able to talk this stuff over with his caucus. The next closest thing he might have available is the "caucus" of NDP Privy Council members.

David MacDonald, Ed Schreyer, Saul Cherniak (when he became a member of SIRC), Frances Lankin (same reason).

Wilf Day

Double post

theleftyinvestor

Wilf Day wrote:

theleftyinvestor wrote:

How many living folks of current NDP affiliation are in the Privy Council? So far as I can tell, no other MPs.

Bill Blaikie, Audrey McLaughlin, Ed Broadbent, Howard Pawley, Roy Romanow, Lorne Nystrom. Am I missing anyone?

Cause I guess Mulcair won't be able to talk this stuff over with his caucus. The next closest thing he might have available is the "caucus" of NDP Privy Council members.

David MacDonald, Ed Schreyer, Saul Cherniak (when he became a member of SIRC), Frances Lankin (same reason).

Nice catch. It's a minyan!

Unionist

theleftyinvestor wrote:

Nice catch. It's a minyan!

Ha!

Glad to see women count for a minyan. Judaism has entered the 20th century!

 

theleftyinvestor

Unionist wrote:

theleftyinvestor wrote:

Nice catch. It's a minyan!

Ha!

Glad to see women count for a minyan. Judaism has entered the 20th century!

 

It always has in my family. My uncle is a rabbi in the Conservative movement and had an egalitarian shul in Richmond Hill from 1986-1992 before moving to New Jersey. In rabbinical school he fought for the ordination of women and his daughter fought for same-sex recognition when she too was in rabbinical school. But I think we're off topic now :)

knownothing knownothing's picture

Just sat through a great phone-in town hall with Mulcair and they had 12,000 people on the line.

janfromthebruce

sadly I had to miss it because I was chairing a school board mtg - so glad it was well attended - WTG NDP!

David Young

I was in on that call as well!

There were over 200 people who had questions for Tom (including myself), but I knew there'd be little chance for me to put my question to him.

Megan Leslie did a great job as host/moderator.

I hope she gets the opportunity to do more of these.

A job well done!

 

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