NDP #15

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Brachina

knownothing wrote:

Just sat through a great phone-in town hall with Mulcair and they had 12,000 people on the line.

Anything Juicy to report from the call?

And 12,000 people is one heck of a phone call. Mulcair should do more of these things.

In other news Liberals are complaining that the Tories and NDP are conspiring against them, meanwhile bill C-12 actually benifits them and had C-12 been in effect none of the previous Liberal Leadership candiates would currently have debt. Oh and C-12 I believe would apply to Nathan's own debt as well as Mulcair. http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/full-comment/blog.html?b=fullcomment.na... And Hell has frozen over, I found that I agree with Harper on something. Read his come back to Garneau, which is first sensible thing Harper has said in ages. Oh and whole trade debt thing is a good way to help build up the NDP's rep on the economic file. http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/full-comment/blog.html?b=fullcomment.na...

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

I SO HOPE Findlay wins. Then we can run against the Conservatives, and the Tories. That would be great!

Unionist

Arthur Cramer wrote:

I SO HOPE Findlay wins. Then we can run against the Conservatives, and the Tories. That would be great!

Unite the Right and wish them Good Night. I like it!

Speaking of wishes, shana tova u'metuka and a gut yor to you and yours, Arthur!

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Unionist wrote:

Arthur Cramer wrote:

I SO HOPE Findlay wins. Then we can run against the Conservatives, and the Tories. That would be great!

Unite the Right and wish them Good Night. I like it!

Speaking of wishes, shana tova u'metuka and a gut yor to you and yours, Arthur!

Well, that is very kind Unionist! Thank-you, and to you and yours as well. But in all honesty, I am the least "Jewish Jew", you will ever meet. Only knew when the holidays were because of my parents "blessed be their memories". Never had a Bar Mitzvah, can't speak a word of Hebrew, and don't have any Jewish friends. My dad was a complete Atheist; my mother, very devout. But, never learned a thing. My dad told me that my granfather "blessed be his memory", took my dad and my uncles "blessed be their memories", untill the last one of them got Bar Mitzvahed, and then never went back to Shul again, lol. My dad didn't even try, lol! I have always wondered why that was, given my mother's devotion, but I guess life is full of mysteries. Lol.

Cheers my friend!

Brachina

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/conservatives...

I found it funny that the Tories had cap and,trade in thier own Platform and yet keep accusing the NDP's of being a carbon tax.

socialdemocrati...

David Young wrote:

I was in on that call as well!

There were over 200 people who had questions for Tom (including myself), but I knew there'd be little chance for me to put my question to him.

Megan Leslie did a great job as host/moderator.

I hope she gets the opportunity to do more of these.

A job well done!

I'd pretty interested to hear any highlights. Good answers, or tough questions.

Brachina

http://www2.macleans.ca/2012/09/19/the-fights-of-his-life/

Really good artical, learned alot about Mulcair. Inspite of the title you get to see a very nuturing side to Mulcair.

Favourite Quote "If your friends with Mulcair, he's the best friend you ever had, if your his enemy, you have a hard time sleeping"

Also the call he got from Ryan on the Quebec Liberals shifting to the right explains alot and Claude Ryan's concerns about that was interesting.

Also interesting was that Mulcair was a successful student leader.

mark_alfred

Brachina wrote:
http://www2.macleans.ca/2012/09/19/the-fights-of-his-life/ Really good artical, learned alot about Mulcair.

Thanks for the link.  It was interesting.

theleftyinvestor

knownothing wrote:

Just sat through a great phone-in town hall with Mulcair and they had 12,000 people on the line.

I was on the line too. Sadly they were having technical difficulties. I pressed 9 to ask a question (I wanted to see what he thought of the new BC boundaries that work strongly against the NDP), and partway into the call I heard a voice jump in and ask me by name if I had a question. I responded multiple times but she couldn't seem to hear me. So I lost my place in line and never got another chance.

nicky
Lachine Scot

The article about Mulcair was interesting, I agree. Now, I'm not very involved with the NDP beyond volunteering once in a while and voting, can someone explain to me how this: "Mulcair’s upbringing in such a large, tightly knit, complex household remains the template for his important relationships. Aides and allies say he maintains unusually close contact with family and old friends, cultivating an intensely personal network and leaning on time-tested loyalties"

... is different from a sort of patronage system where politics are built on personal relationships rather than ideology or merit? Won't this recreate the same problem of "camps" within the Liberal party, or what we already saw with the Broadbent vs Mulcair thing during the leadership race?

 

NDP shout down Elizabeth May in HOC today

This video was making the rounds today.. can anyone clarify why the NDP were hooting like that, or whether it was really them? If so, quite undignified. :/ 

clambake

Not to sound like an apologist, but the heckling began when she stated praising the Liberal's record on the enivorment (odd for a dedicated environmentalist). She also seemed to sit down instantly instead of waiting for the speaker to call order. That's not to excuse NDP members from their actions, but May was quite defeatist and this clearly plays into the hands of Trudeau (who retweeted May)

clambake

edit: double post

Lachine Scot

clambake wrote:

Not to sound like an apologist, but the heckling began when she stated praising the Liberal's record on the enivorment (odd for a dedicated environmentalist). She also seemed to sit down instantly instead of waiting for the speaker to call order. That's not to excuse NDP members from their actions, but May was quite defeatist and this clearly plays into the hands of Trudeau (who retweeted May)

I believe she was referring to Dion's environmental plan, not the Liberal record. I don't deny that she is basically a crypto-Liberal in many ways, or that the Greens are a mess, but that doesn't make me feel happy to see a bunch of men hooting a woman into silence in the HOC. I don't think it's really fair to criticize her for sitting down or for not recognizing that "That's what the house of commons is like" (previous poster's claim). IMO, it's not a progressive attitude at all and enables the kind of boorish macho atmosphere the Cons work so hard to create.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

I thought the NDP were going to be different. Isn't that what Layton promised?

 

madmax

Its about 3 seconds of well earned groans.  The Liberals had a plan in place....... that is not a reference to Dions environment plan, but is clearly with regards to the signing of Kyoto.  After that , there was no plan.

I think May could have asked a much better question and challenged the goverment , instead  she$ used her question time poorly.

It smacked of politics. 

If she truly believes the Liberal had a plan in place , perhaps its time she officially join the Liberals.

 

addictedtomyipod

I think she was referencing Dion's green shift plan.  She has been having a lovefest with him for years.  He even came to the Green party national convention in Sidney a month or so ago and gave a speech.  Those two are tight.

 

The house should have been called to order by the speaker of the house.  She could have pressed for it, but chose not to.

Brachina

Aristotleded24 wrote:

Lachine Scot wrote:
NDP shout down Elizabeth May in HOC today

This video was making the rounds today.. can anyone clarify why the NDP were hooting like that, or whether it was really them? If so, quite undignified. :/

May was right there, there was clearly heckling and shouting in the video, why wouldn't we not take her at her word that it was the NDP that was heckling?

Having said that, I can't understand why she just sat down instead of trying to make her point more forcefully. She should know by now that the House is not a civil place, regardless of what we may wish.

Why wouldn't we take May at her word? That she was promoting the Liberal enviromental record, a record that in some ways is actually worse then the the conservative record, for all there PR on Kyoto.

May has no crediblity on any issue and for me this is the last straw, I supported May being in the debates, but May should not be allowed to particape. The leaders debates are for party leaders, not leaders of branch plants. If May attends Mulcair should be allowed to bring Megan Leslie and Harper should get to bring Peter Mackay and if the Bloc's still around Paille should get to bring Pauline Marios. Its only fair.

We can declare Megan Leslie the leader of the CCF, an "independant" party from the NDP •wink, wink•.

Unionist

Disgusting comments. My bad for looking in on this thread.

 

mark_alfred

Two seconds of groans and she's in a huff claiming she can't be heard (I heard every word she said).  May's a whiner who yearns to be treated with kid gloves.

mark_alfred

Unionist wrote:

Disgusting comments. My bad for looking in on this thread.

 

 

Oh stop whining.

Aristotleded24

Lachine Scot wrote:
NDP shout down Elizabeth May in HOC today

This video was making the rounds today.. can anyone clarify why the NDP were hooting like that, or whether it was really them? If so, quite undignified. :/

May was right there, there was clearly heckling and shouting in the video, why wouldn't we take her at her word that it was the NDP that was heckling?

Having said that, I can't understand why she just sat down instead of trying to make her point more forcefully. She should know by now that the House is not a civil place, regardless of what we may wish.

*Edited to clarify what I really meant*

janfromthebruce

I saw the clip, May was doing the political backhand to Mulcair and evoking her beloved Lib's green plan (long live Kyoto), and some in the NDP moaned, oh here's a tweet which called it correct

She wasn't "shouted down" as Green and LPC tweeps claim. NDP groaned at her fakey praise for LPC climate record.

May tweeted all over her "shock" of the situation (sure), and evoked Jack Layton's name. Her 1 hr of tweeter fame is over.

Stockholm

May needs to get over herself, she dishes out vicious invective at everyone else and then she expects to be treated like some Faberge egg who is beyond reproach. The smallest violin in the world is playing for her!

Jacob Two-Two

Yes, this is making a mountain out of a molehill, but it was still playing into their hands. Layton called for greater decorum in the house not just because it was classy or whatever, but because he understood that nobody is going to play fair with the NDP and we'll get attacked for doing the same things that all the other parties do, so we have to operate at a higher standard for strategic reasons. Nobody pays any attention to question period. It wouldn't have mattered if May gave her bullshit praise to the Liberal record without being groaned at by the NDP caucus, but giving our opponents little clips like this can make a difference if they keep adding up. This will be quickly forgotten as long as it isn't repeated. I hope the party has learned a lesson here about controlling the message by controlling themselves.

Stockholm

FYI, this did not happen during question period. It was during a regular debate when only a handful of MPs were there.

Lachine Scot

I'll remember this next time people complain about the Conservatives booing and shouting down an NDPer saying something.  Sorry, when they rightfully "Groan" at the NDP.

mark_alfred

The basic gist of May's question was asked.  That gist was that the NDP merely point fingers, whereas the wonderful Liberals have actual concrete plans.  Here's the exchange from the Hansard:

Hansard wrote:

Ms. Elizabeth May (Saanich—Gulf Islands, GP): previous intervention next intervention    Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the leader of the official opposition if, in his comparison between trade deficits and ecological deficits, he would advance the need to actually do something about the climate crisis rather than point fingers back and forth across the aisle.

 

    The previous Liberal government had a plan in place. It would have reduced emissions. It would have—

 

    Some hon. members: Oh, oh!

 

    Ms. Elizabeth May: I am sorry, Mr. Speaker, I cannot be heard. next intervention previous intervention   [Table of Contents]

 

Hon. Thomas Mulcair: previous intervention next intervention    Actually, Mr. Speaker, the government that I was part of in Quebec City had a plan in place to reduce greenhouse gases. That is why we reduced greenhouse gases.

 

    I was actually at the Kyoto conference, in Montreal. I can inform my colleague that the Liberal Party never did a thing. That is why it has the worst record in the world.

 

    During that conference, I remember its minister, who went on to become its leader, saying that, all of a sudden, he did have a plan, but nobody was ever able to see it. When the Liberals finished their mandate after 13 years, they had done nothing on global warming and they did, indeed, have the worst record in the world.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

I agree with both sides in this debate.  May is a whining jerk who constantly plays the passive aggressive game. The NDP MP's who got sucked into her stupid game are idiots and boars.

So between May and the NDP the debate is not on how to fix the incredibly complex and dangerous environmental problems but on who started the name calling first.  Great work by our opposition parties.

Lou Arab Lou Arab's picture

At the risk of joining an unseemly pile on of Elizabeth May - if she had made that statement in my prescence I would have groaned too.  It was an asinine statement and I don't fault MPs for expressing what I think was pretty mild disagreement.

Expressing disagreement does not automatically equal disrespectful treatment.

Aristotleded24

Jacob Two-Two wrote:
Yes, this is making a mountain out of a molehill, but it was still playing into their hands. Layton called for greater decorum in the house not just because it was classy or whatever, but because he understood that nobody is going to play fair with the NDP and we'll get attacked for doing the same things that all the other parties do, so we have to operate at a higher standard for strategic reasons. Nobody pays any attention to question period. It wouldn't have mattered if May gave her bullshit praise to the Liberal record without being groaned at by the NDP caucus, but giving our opponents little clips like this can make a difference if they keep adding up. This will be quickly forgotten as long as it isn't repeated. I hope the party has learned a lesson here about controlling the message by controlling themselves.

Exactly. All this kind of thing does is confirm in the public's mind that politicians bicker and squabble, they just get more disgusted in general and it becomes harder to win them over at the voting booth.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Lou Arab wrote:

At the risk of joining an unseemly pile on of Elizabeth May - if she had made that statement in my prescence I would have groaned too.  It was an asinine statement and I don't fault MPs for expressing what I think was pretty mild disagreement.

Expressing disagreement does not automatically equal disrespectful treatment.

The quotes from Mulcair show the proper response. There was no need for the groans and it really is about decorum.  I have watched the performing seals in blue suits in the House.  The OO doesn't need to be the same way.  These people are high paid professionals and shouldn't be slashing and grabbing.  Mulcair's legal hip check was all that was required.

The NDP is either going to be a different type of parliamentary caucus or they can get down and dirty in the gutter. I don't believe they can have it both ways by saying we are only a little bit rude and obnoxious not totally boorish like the Blue Seals behaviour that we decry.  Yes I know they only groaned but isn't that a tad childish for people we are paying. Is that how committee meetings are going to accomplish things?  I liked that Jack made decorum an issue but I guess the groans were just "politicians being politicians." 

Brachina

mark_alfred wrote:

The basic gist of May's question was asked.  That gist was that the NDP merely point fingers, whereas the wonderful Liberals have actual concrete plans.  Here's the exchange from the Hansard:

Hansard wrote:

Ms. Elizabeth May (Saanich—Gulf Islands, GP): previous intervention next intervention    Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the leader of the official opposition if, in his comparison between trade deficits and ecological deficits, he would advance the need to actually do something about the climate crisis rather than point fingers back and forth across the aisle.

 

    The previous Liberal government had a plan in place. It would have reduced emissions. It would have—

 

    Some hon. members: Oh, oh!

 

    Ms. Elizabeth May: I am sorry, Mr. Speaker, I cannot be heard. next intervention previous intervention   [Table of Contents]

 

Hon. Thomas Mulcair: previous intervention next intervention    Actually, Mr. Speaker, the government that I was part of in Quebec City had a plan in place to reduce greenhouse gases. That is why we reduced greenhouse gases.

 

    I was actually at the Kyoto conference, in Montreal. I can inform my colleague that the Liberal Party never did a thing. That is why it has the worst record in the world.

 

    During that conference, I remember its minister, who went on to become its leader, saying that, all of a sudden, he did have a plan, but nobody was ever able to see it. When the Liberals finished their mandate after 13 years, they had done nothing on global warming and they did, indeed, have the worst record in the world.

I changed my mind about May attending the,debates after reading that, its better to have May exposed for the misinformation spewing liberal plant that she is. Tom clearly is way above her league. He has experience, the reputation, and the knowledge to crush her in the debate and part of the proof is above.

Still I wish the MPs who groaned didn't do so, hopeful Nathan will remind them to show more discipline in the future.

I do understand the urge to groan, her speech should have come with barf bags.

Brachina

For some perpective, Steven Harper's record on the enviroment is terrible, they Liberals record is worse.

Recently carbon emissions have gone down, of course Harper can't take most of the credit for that, his regulations are weak, although still more then the Liberals did.

mark_alfred

kropotkin1951 wrote:

I agree with both sides in this debate.  May is a whining jerk who constantly plays the passive aggressive game. The NDP MP's who got sucked into her stupid game are idiots and boars.

So between May and the NDP the debate is not on how to fix the incredibly complex and dangerous environmental problems but on who started the name calling first.  Great work by our opposition parties.

Bear in mind that the topic which May was posing her question to Mulcair was his Opposition Motion on the economy, which read,

Tom Mulcair's Opposition Motion wrote:
That this House acknowledge that the Canadian economy is facing unprecedented risk and uncertainty; recognize that many regions and industries across Canada have already suffered significant job losses in recent years; urge all levels of government to work together to build a balanced, 21st century Canadian economy; and insist that Canada's Prime Minister meet with his counterparts in Halifax this November at the National Economic Summit being held by the Council of the Federation.

It's hard to see how May's question is even relevant to this motion, besides being a weird snipe.  Bear in mind too that her swipe was delivered in a day that saw the Conservatives hurling everything they could at the NDP.  Anyway, regarding whether this is "great work" or not by our opposition parties, the motion is deferred until Tuesday, September 25.  Hopefully we'll see whether it passes or not then. 

mark_alfred

Brachina wrote:

Still I wish the MPs who groaned didn't do so, hopeful Nathan will remind them to show more discipline in the future.

May claimed in a Tweet that the Speaker did not call for order, but the video showed it was unnecessary to do so.  The groans stopped practically as soon as she sat down, then there was a long pause (4 seconds), then the speaker called on Mulcair to answer her question since she decided not to resume. 

For comparison, when Peggy Nash asked a question about the possible takeover of Nexen by a Chinese company, she truly could not be heard through the clapping and yelling of the Cons.  If you watch it, she attempts to continue asking the question, but can't be heard.  She did sit down, the noise continued, and so since order was lost, the Speaker intervened.  See http://tinyurl.com/8t7n6yr  The speaker will not intervene unless absolutely necessary, and it clearly was not necessary in the case of May.  She could have finished elaborating upon her question if she had wanted to.

clambake

Does anyone know of a good summary/report of the Liberal's environmental record? I wasn't really into politics at the time

mark_alfred

clambake wrote:

Does anyone know of a good summary/report of the Liberal's environmental record? I wasn't really into politics at the time

Wikipedia is good.  Check out Canada and the Kyoto Protocol.  Note that Quebec is the only region that reduced their greenhouse gas emissions.

clambake

Thanks, Mark :)

nicky

Craig Oliver says Harper may have met his match in Mulcair:

 

http://www.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=766872&playlistId=1.966662&binId=1.811563

KenS

kropotkin1951 wrote:

I agree with both sides in this debate.  May is a whining jerk who constantly plays the passive aggressive game. The NDP MP's who got sucked into her stupid game are idiots and boars.

So between May and the NDP the debate is not on how to fix the incredibly complex and dangerous environmental problems but on who started the name calling first.  Great work by our opposition parties.

Worth noting that Megan Leslie and May teamed up very well on CBC Radio The House on Saturday.

This proves both points / sides of the discussion: Elizabeth May is not absloutley hopeless. On the other hand, it is impossible for anyone not to like and respect Megan Leslie, it is another woman. Etc, etc. In other words, if you treat May with kid gloves, she can play nice. Thats worth it.

But it can't always be like that, and she WILL revert to default: the brittle person [who manages the PR of being 'honest'], who does not like the NDP and is not naturally inclined to playing nice with it, and shares the undying light of the Liberal Party as Canada's great hope.

mark_alfred

nicky wrote:

Craig Oliver says Harper may have met his match in Mulcair:

 

http://www.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=766872&playlistId=1.966662&binId=1.811563

 

Thanks for the link.  I think it's true that Mulcair is as good as Harper when it comes to the verbal jostle in the House.  The video showed a clip of Harper responding to a Liberal Party question (it was a reasonable question that asked the government to stop with the silly side show of attacking the NDP on the alleged "carbon tax" and get down to actual business) where Harper answered with a zinger to both the NDP and the Liberals.  Admittedly, I thought, "hey, good zinger!"  Harper is good at this sort of thing.  But Mulcair certainly held his own this week which was quite impressive given the relentless attacks the government put on the NDP this week.

nicky

John Ivison says nice things about Tom:

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/09/25/john-ivison-thomas-mulcair-can-be-a-leader-if-canadians-are-willing-to-follow/

 

Thomas Mulcair is the most formidable opponent Stephen Harper has ever faced, mirroring the vision, personal integrity, courage, understanding of the country and powers of articulation that won Mr. Harper the big prize in the first place.

But for many voters he is still an unknown quantity. 

 

Brachina
Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Can someone help me with this? I am debating a guy in the Huff Post. He wrote:

 

"You won't get real change from the NDP.  If that was the case Mulcair would be verbal on a lot of the issues happening.  Instead he stayed quiet on every non-oil pipeline issue that's happened since before the protests in Quebec."

 

How do I respond to that? I haven't got the slightest idea. Should I just ignore it?

clambake

You could cite the NDP platform, I guess. Which article?

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

clambake wrote:

You could cite the NDP platform, I guess. Which article?

Justin Trudeau Liberal Leadership Bid: Trudeau Faces World Much Different From His Father's; http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/09/30/justin-trudeau-liberal-leadershi....

Honestly, I don't know how these guys look at themselves in a mirror. What a buch of sociopaths.

Ippurigakko

i think he talk about oil pipeline to east canada...

i read comments who are eastern ppl are angry about it, they gonna lose mulcair votes..

we need STOP oil AND mining. its bad environment!

clambake

Arthur Cramer wrote:

clambake wrote:

You could cite the NDP platform, I guess. Which article?

Justin Trudeau Liberal Leadership Bid: Trudeau Faces World Much Different From His Father's; http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/09/30/justin-trudeau-liberal-leadershi....

Honestly, I don't know how these guys look at themselves in a mirror. What a buch of sociopaths.

I've been "debating" with people on the Sun News Facebook page and National Post about Khadr and the student protests. I don't know why I subject myself to such nonsense, but it's hard to come to terms with how utterly ignorant a large portion of Canadians are :(

Aristotleded24

Arthur Cramer wrote:
Can someone help me with this? I am debating a guy in the Huff Post. He wrote:

 

"You won't get real change from the NDP.  If that was the case Mulcair would be verbal on a lot of the issues happening.  Instead he stayed quiet on every non-oil pipeline issue that's happened since before the protests in Quebec."

 

How do I respond to that?

Maybe by taking a nice walk outside? It's going to be nice for the next few days.

Seriously, people are going to say all kinds of things, especially on public news forums. Remember how the comments on public news boards was quite right-wing last year, only to shift dramatically when the election was on and people were paying attention?

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