NDP and the military III

221 posts / 0 new
Last post
Todrick of Chat...

 

http://www.ndp.ca/news/conservative-cuts-have-direct-impact-veterans-and-their-families

Conservative cuts have direct impact on veterans and their families

NDP Veterans Affairs critic Peter Stoffer (Sackville-Eastern Shore) blasted the Conservative government today for attempting to balance its books on the backs of veterans and their families. 

 “Shane Jones is an Afghanistan veteran suffering from PTSD and a traumatic brain injury” said Stoffer. “His caseworkers have changed three times since June and each time he has a new caseworker, he feels like he has to start all over again.” 

 The Conservative government has cut hundreds of staff at Veterans Affairs Canada. Their plan to close nine district offices by next year has been met with fierce opposition from veterans’ groups and case workers.

 “Many of our veterans require one-on-one assistance that cannot be met through a website, mobile app, or toll-free number” said NDP Veterans Affairs deputy critic Sylvain Chicoine (Châteauguay—Saint-Constant). “New Democrats call on the federal government to reverse these cuts immediately.”

Todrick of Chat...

http://www.netnewsledger.com/2013/11/06/treatment-veterans-shameful-rafferty/

 

“The NDP are criticizing the Conservative government for what the party states is “Its shameful practice of discharging injured soldiers from the military before they reach ten years of service and qualify for a pension”. Thunder Bay – Rainy River Member of Parliament John Rafferty said he was horrified to hear of these discharges.  “It’s deplorable.  These men and women risked their lives and are now being abandoned by their own government – our government.  This mistreatment of Canada’s veterans has to stop.”  “The actions of this Conservative government are shameful,” said the Official Opposition Veterans critic, Peter Stoffer (Sackville-Eastern Shore). “Contrary to what the government says, many injured soldiers are being released when they are not ready and fall short of qualifying for a military pension.” ….”

Todrick of Chat...

http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?Pub=hansard&Language=E&Mode=1&Parl=41&Ses=2#SOB-8129692

 

Mr. Speaker, I rise to commemorate the sacrifices made by our men and women in uniform across Canada and in my province of Newfoundland and Labrador.  Nearly 100 years ago, Newfoundland, then a dominion like Canada, committed thousands of troops to the First World War. Sadly, as we remember all too well, the Royal Newfoundland Regiment suffered devastating losses during the Great War, especially at the Battle of Beaumont Hamel. Plans are afoot for a significant commemoration of these events, which live on in the national memory of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians.  Over the generations since, all across Canada sacrifices continue to be made right down to today in loss of life and loss of capacity. The memory of those who died and made the ultimate sacrifice is sacred, but Remembrance Day is also a day for veterans to be honoured for their courage and contribution to their country, and a robust, compassionate, and comprehensive program of support for those who need it must be available.  Remembrance Day, to me, is not just about the past; it is also about the present and the future. Lest we forget.”

Todrick of Chat...

It has been a busy week for the NDP sucking up to the Imperial War Machine. Why are they considered progressive again?

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Todrick of Chatsworth wrote:

It has been a busy week for the NDP sucking up to the Imperial War Machine. Why are they considered progressive again?

You know, as a retired Vet, and life long New Dem, that comment really hurts me.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Are you saying Canada is not part of an imperial war machine? Tell that to the people of Afghanistan, Iraq, Haiti and Libya. Our forces are now completely integrated with the US led war machine.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Are you saying Canada is not part of an imperial war machine? Tell that to the people of Afghanistan, Iraq, Haiti and Libya. Our forces are now completely integrated with the US led war machine.

Well, I have belonged to the party since I was a kid. I never saw my service in that light ever. It hurt me. What can I say? It just hurts me. You know about my Dad's (blessed be his memory) Second World War service. He was a New CCFer/Democrat all of his life and would never have thought of this this way either. It would hurt him to hear this too; he was proud of his Service, and of mine. We thought of our service altruisticly, and a privilege to be allowed to serve.

I get how everyone feels on this, but honestly, I never meant anyone in the Service who didn't feel the same way and saw it any differently.

I guess I'll call this one retired old Vet's view.

Aristotleded24

Todrick of Chatsworth wrote:
It has been a busy week for the NDP sucking up to the Imperial War Machine. Why are they considered progressive again?

Are you suggesting that former Canadian soldiers should not get the health care they meet? I fail to see why you take issue with speaking against cutting benefits for veterans, especially considering the physical and mental health challenges they often endure.

Webgear

Arthur, check your private messages.

Brachina
RosaL

Arthur Cramer wrote:

We thought of our service altruisticly, and a privilege to be allowed to serve.

I get how everyone feels on this, but honestly, I never meant anyone in the Service who didn't feel the same way and saw it any differently.

I guess I'll call this one retired old Vet's view.

I know you did and therein lies the problem. The ruling powers have - since time immemorail - told those they sent to kill and die that they were killing and dying for something good. Something noble. And all down the centuries, people have believed them, both soldiers and civilians. If I refuse to perpetuate the lie, I hurt those who believed it and acted - very often - courageously, very often sacrificing themselves, in that belief, along with those who loved them. If I say, "all right, I don't want to hurt these people," I end up perpetuating this monstrous lie. If it were just a matter of the past, I'd probably go along with it, for the sake of those who believed it. I'm not a monster. I'd prefer not to be saying, in effect, "I know you thought it was about freedom - but really it was about power and profit for the rich and the powerful." I'd prefer not to be saying, in effect, "I know his/her motives were admirable, but your loved one was deceived; he or she killed and died for worse than nothing." But this doesn't just concern the past: as the MP quoted above rightly says, it concerns the present and the future. I am sincerely sorry about the hurt. I really am. But there are larger things at stake here. I don't see how it can be done without hurting many who have believed it in the past and believe it now but this is a lie that has to be unmasked. 

And no, I'm not saying anybody is stupid. (People don't actually debate They just accuse you of bad faith.) I don't think there's anybody alive who doesn't fall for something like this in one form or another. That's why we need to allow criticism. 

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

"....I don't think there's anybody alive who doesn't fall for something like this in one form or another...."

I didn't fall for anything; but, I understand your point and respect your agrument.

But i have to say this, I went in to the Service eyes wide open and with no illusions about to what I was comitting myself, as did my dad (blessed be his memory).

It is what it is.

RosaL

Arthur Cramer wrote:

"....I don't think there's anybody alive who doesn't fall for something like this in one form or another...."

I didn't fall for anything; but, I understand your point and respect your agrument.

But i have to say this, I went in to the Service eyes wide open and with no illusions about to what I was comitting myself, as did my dad (blessed be his memory).

It is what it is.

 

I respect courage and commitment even when I think it's misguided or downright wrong because I am sure that I too am misguided and downright wrong. All we can do is live passionately for what we believe in and be willing to change our minds! And debate! 

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

RosaL, I understand the point you are making. All I can tell you is my choice to serve, to be ALLOWED to serve, was neither misguided, or wrong.

RosaL

Arthur Cramer wrote:

RosaL, I understand the point you are making. All I can tell you is my choice to serve, to be ALLOWED to serve, was neither misguided, or wrong.

 

What do you expect me to say? "You say you weren't wrong? All right then - that settles it!" I know you don't think you were misguided or wrong Wink

 

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

RosaL wrote:

Arthur Cramer wrote:

RosaL, I understand the point you are making. All I can tell you is my choice to serve, to be ALLOWED to serve, was neither misguided, or wrong.

 

What do you expect me to say? "You say you weren't wrong? All right then - that settles it!" I know you don't think you were misguided or wrong Wink

 

Well, I truly believe it, but I apologize sincerely if I just wrote something offensive. I didn't mean any insult to you and am glad you are posting here. I hope you don't feel you won't be listened to here. I am proud of my service and that of my dad's (blessed be his memory), but I meant no slight, insult or affront. Again, if necessary, I sincerely apologize and hope you will accept my apology.

RosaL

Arthur Cramer wrote:

RosaL wrote:

Arthur Cramer wrote:

RosaL, I understand the point you are making. All I can tell you is my choice to serve, to be ALLOWED to serve, was neither misguided, or wrong.

 

What do you expect me to say? "You say you weren't wrong? All right then - that settles it!" I know you don't think you were misguided or wrong Wink

 

Well, I truly believe it, but I apologize sincerely if I just wrote something offensive. I didn't mean any insult to you and am glad you are posting here. I hope you don't feel you won't be listened to here. I am proud of my service and that of my dad's (blessed be his memory), but I meant no slight, insult or affront. Again, if necessary, I sincerely apologize and hope you will accept my apology.

 

No, no, no! I'm not offended and I hope you aren't either! We're just having a debate; it's a difficult one to have though, I know, for precisely the reasons you mention. But it's good to discuss, I think. 

DLivings

Arthur Cramer wrote:

RosaL wrote:

Arthur Cramer wrote:

RosaL, I understand the point you are making. All I can tell you is my choice to serve, to be ALLOWED to serve, was neither misguided, or wrong.

 

What do you expect me to say? "You say you weren't wrong? All right then - that settles it!" I know you don't think you were misguided or wrong Wink

 

Well, I truly believe it, but I apologize sincerely if I just wrote something offensive. I didn't mean any insult to you and am glad you are posting here. I hope you don't feel you won't be listened to here. I am proud of my service and that of my dad's (blessed be his memory), but I meant no slight, insult or affront. Again, if necessary, I sincerely apologize and hope you will accept my apology.

I appreciate and respect the civility you are demonstrating Arthur.  The fact is, even if we find ourselves on what we think of as the progressive side of the conversation, we will never agree on everything!  Being able to disagree occasionally on ideas, interests and positions, and do so without attacking the person, is a big deal.

Just wanted to say that.

Unionist

RosaL wrote:

Arthur Cramer wrote:

We thought of our service altruisticly, and a privilege to be allowed to serve.

I get how everyone feels on this, but honestly, I never meant anyone in the Service who didn't feel the same way and saw it any differently.

I guess I'll call this one retired old Vet's view.

I know you did and therein lies the problem. The ruling powers have - since time immemorail - told those they sent to kill and die that they were killing and dying for something good. Something noble. And all down the centuries, people have believed them, both soldiers and civilians. If I refuse to perpetuate the lie, I hurt those who believed it and acted - very often - courageously, very often sacrificing themselves, in that belief, along with those who loved them. If I say, "all right, I don't want to hurt these people," I end up perpetuating this monstrous lie. If it were just a matter of the past, I'd probably go along with it, for the sake of those who believed it. I'm not a monster. I'd prefer not to be saying, in effect, "I know you thought it was about freedom - but really it was about power and profit for the rich and the powerful." I'd prefer not to be saying, in effect, "I know his/her motives were admirable, but your loved one was deceived; he or she killed and died for worse than nothing." But this doesn't just concern the past: as the MP quoted above rightly says, it concerns the present and the future. I am sincerely sorry about the hurt. I really am. But there are larger things at stake here. I don't see how it can be done without hurting many who have believed it in the past and believe it now but this is a lie that has to be unmasked. 

And no, I'm not saying anybody is stupid. (People don't actually debate They just accuse you of bad faith.) I don't think there's anybody alive who doesn't fall for something like this in one form or another. That's why we need to allow criticism. 

I don't usually quote a whole long post - but this time, I can't see what to condense.

All I can say is thank you, Rosa, for coming back to see us and for your moving statement.

I never thought I'd reach the latter stages of my life, and people - never mind progressive people - would still be misled and confused about the evil senseless slaughter that was World War I. And more recent wars. And the next ones. It shows how naive I have been.

We should just keep telling the truth. People will listen.

Quote:
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood

Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,

Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud

Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,—

My friend, you would not tell with such high zest

To children ardent for some desperate glory,

The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori.

NDPP

Study Finds 'Inequality' in Canadian Army (and vid)

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/11/22/335974/study-finds-inequality-in...

"The Canadian Forces Workplace Harassment Survey reveals that minorities, women and aboriginals are complaining about what they call a high rate of harassment..."

Pages