The NDP, Con, and Liberal fundraising

23 posts / 0 new
Last post
Shoon
The NDP, Con, and Liberal fundraising

Wear do you believe the parties stand in fundraising both private and public, vs debt and expenses? I mean people say the opposition parties are hurting for money. Still the parties just got money for the 2008 election which should pay off any remaining debt from 2011 and by 2015 should get thier rebate from 2011 election. That in addition to the per vote subsity which while winding down should net the parties alot of cash especially the ndp. The ndp is also more effecient with money then the liberals. The NDP's fundraising should hopeful rise once the leadership campaign is over. The only party that should be worried is the bloc, maybe thier taking a massive hit,on per vote subsidy both from the winding down of the pvs and the massive loss of votes. The massive loss of members and the turmoil in the PQ may makes fund raising more difficult as well. Any ideas on improving fund raising ablity?

Issues Pages: 
Newfoundlander_...

The Liberals are looking at setting up a national call centre to raise money. 

http://www.metronews.ca/toronto/local/article/1056390--grits-look-to-dru...

KenS

Emphasis on 'looking at'.

They are looking at a lot of things while the palace crumbles around them.

Newfoundlander_...

KenS wrote:

Emphasis on 'looking at'.

They are looking at a lot of things while the palace crumbles around them.

Well they're voting on it at their convention in a few weeks and letting the membership decide, shouldn't that be how things work in a party?

KenS

The topic is about fundraising, not wishes.

That the Libs wish for a real fundraising infrastructure is irrelevant- whether it is the establishment or the membership voting.

They dont get their wish without the money, and they wont have the money without drastically paring down their administrative structure, on which they are also going to vote whether or not to have a discussion about in the indefinite future.

Draw your own conclusions.

 

Newfoundlander_...

KenS wrote:

The topic is about fundraising, not wishes.

That the Libs wish for a real fundraising infrastructure is irrelevant- whether it is the establishment or the membership voting.

They dont get their wish without the money, and they wont have the money without drastically paring down their administrative structure, on which they are also going to vote whether or not to have a discussion about in the indefinite future.

Draw your own conclusions.

 

You're quite confusing.

KenS

But, for what its worth...

Its a safe bet that the 'proposed' $2.5million call centre is like a Christmas present the brain trust is dangling out.

"Here is what you [might] get if you are good children."

Where 'good' = the delegates voting to at least talk about the drastic administrative paring the LPC needs  just to survive [let alone have $2.5m to spare]... which then might happen eventually. As opposed to 'bad' = the delegates rejecting out of hand the program of drastic administrative 'consolidation'.

Newfoundlander_...

The idea of the call centre came from the Conservatives, who are masters at fundraising. This thread is about fundraising ideas and here's an idea.

KenS

It is not the particular idea of the call centre or a call centre that matters.

The NDP does not have anything that would be similar to a call centre, really. But for all it is behind the Conservatives, it is way ahead of the Liberals for effciency and capacity.

That story is a message from 'the centre' to Liberal members and activists. The message is not about proposing a call centre in particular. It is making concrete the endless wish 'we're really going to do it now. This time.' [Or kind of soon anyway. Or at least talk about it....]

Newfoundlander_...

I don;t understand what you're getting on with. Here's a quote from The Toronto Star.

"The Liberal party wants to set up a new, $2.5 million “national call centre” to drum up money and new members before the next election.

It’s one of the bigger-ticket items that rank-and-file Liberals will be asked to approve when they hold their convention in Ottawa in January — and a blunt acknowledgement of the party’s chief liability against Prime Minister Stephen Harper’s Conservatives."

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1105731--liberals-put-out-the-call-for-cash-members?bn=1

jerrym

I don't know if the Liberal call centre will even fly. If it does, it could end up being a white elephant. However, I always believe it is a mistake to underestimate your opposition remember the unsinkable Titanic, America the exceptional which has nothing to learn from any other economy, or the Liberals or the Bloc Quebecois. Better to be ready for your opposition to play its best possible game and adjust your game when necessary than to be surprised because they passed you when weren't looking.

NorthReport

The big fundamental problem for the lying liberals is when you are selling shit, wether or not you package it up nicely, you are still selling shit.

Gaian

Shoon wrote:

Wear do you believe the parties stand in fundraising both private and public, vs debt and expenses? I mean people say the opposition parties are hurting for money. Still the parties just got money for the 2008 election which should pay off any remaining debt from 2011 and by 2015 should get thier rebate from 2011 election. That in addition to the per vote subsity which while winding down should net the parties alot of cash especially the ndp. The ndp is also more effecient with money then the liberals. The NDP's fundraising should hopeful rise once the leadership campaign is over. The only party that should be worried is the bloc, maybe thier taking a massive hit,on per vote subsidy both from the winding down of the pvs and the massive loss of votes. The massive loss of members and the turmoil in the PQ may makes fund raising more difficult as well. Any ideas on improving fund raising ablity?

I had a call from NDP headquarters a couple of weeks back, asking how I felt about New Democrats' "efficiency" in doing anything, not just about fund-raising. "Efficient" is an oxymoron when in discussion of our central offices. And when compared to the machine that is the Conservatives' organization, it's a joke, right down to a great number of the constituency offices.

Your question: "Any ideas on improving fund raising ablity?" must be central. It's the only way in which New Democrats can get to inform by advertising. The Liberals have their own work cut out for them, and it's exactly the same need. I just want to see the occasional blurb in my riding that takes on the monthly propaganda of Gary Goodyear, which always invites the reader to agree that it's the Harper team that's "on the right track."

KenS

Newfoundlander_Labradorian wrote:

I don;t understand what you're getting on with. Here's a quote from The Toronto Star.

"The Liberal party wants to set up a new, $2.5 million “national call centre” to drum up money and new members before the next election.

It’s one of the bigger-ticket items that rank-and-file Liberals will be asked to approve ....

In the context of this thread, a call centre is not an idea for 'how to do fundraising'.... its a reflection of a state of development of doing it  [and not the only or nesssarily the best way to do 'advanced fundraising'].

You dont just snap your fingers and say 'call centre'.... even if you have $2.5million to do it, let alone if you dont have the money.

So the question being put to Liberals in real terms is "shall we invest $2.5m in a call centre?"

The point I was making is that it is an empty gesture, they do not have the money to invest.

And they will only possibly have the money available in the near future if the LPC drastically trims and alters its administrative structure. Which is also being put to the membership.

The brain trust has been trying to get that approved for 4 years now. We are into the Nth itteration of the brain trust talking as if this is inevitable and the membership is certain to approve it. Blah, blah. Etc.

They really needed to do this drastic trimming back then. Now, you would think they do not really have any choice. The money just isnt there any more for the past 5 years practice of keeping it limping along while scrambling. But it isnt the membership that has to approve it, it is the delegates attending the series of Conventions considering this, the next one being in a few weeks. And guess who comes as delegates to Conventions.... the people addicted to the existing administrative structure of petty patronage based fiefdoms.... who go on as if nothing ever happened, and as if there are still goodies for the LPC to dole out. It is the revenge of the LPC's history of arrogance, the buzzards feeding on their own corpse.

The LPC activist cadre is still so much in the upside down Wonderland world that the brain trust felt that even now it is too controversial to put the drastic trimming directly on the ballot. It is STILL, just 'lets talk about it some more, we'll agree that things cannot stay the same, how much and in what way they will change to be decided in the moths ahead.' As they have said many times before, and despite in the months ahead that they willl be getting into the intercine feeding frenzy over Bob Rae being allowed to run for Leader, etc.

Which didnt stop brain trust figure and Globe columnist Rob Silver saying in the last couple of months that the administrative structure as they know it will be gone completely within 6 months. Just a tad premature. Again.

So the real internal politics of putting to the vote 'do you want a call centre' is to give some positive window dressing spin to the real ballot question of "shall we [at least consider some more] drasticlly trimming the party's administrative structure so that the LPC can survive?" Pretty please.

Newfoundlander_...

$2.5 million isn't that hard to raise, the Liberals over $1 million in something like 12 days this month. Anyways you can forget my idea instead of rambling on about it. 

KenS

Its just like your household. 

"$1,000 is not a lot of money for a new computer. I make that in 12 days this month."

Except that you need every penny of it to to make your fixed payments, heat the pad and eat. Ditto next month. And the next...

The Liberals do not have the $2.5m available, no matter how long you spread the investment over.

And they will only possibly have it, after they [possibly] radicaly alter their administrative structure. Thy do not have unity on that, and even when/if they do it, there will still be considerable lag time until they can hope for an operating surplus required to be making investments.

ottawaobserver

$1 million in the last 12 days of a calendar year is not the same as $1 million every 12 days for a calendar year. In fact, those 12 days were pretty much the only time they were doing any fundraising in the fourth quarter, if you judge by the emails they send out. And they had to haul out every former Prime Minister making dire calls in those emails just to get it.

KenS

Right.

Here is that Star article interview with Pres Alf Apps:

Quote:

This month, Liberals are boasting that they've raised more than $1 million in a 12-day fundraising drive,

Spin city.

That isnt a "12 day fundraising drive".

That is the routine harvest of people wanting in under the tax credit deadline that every party does every year.

And the same as every routine dollar that comes in the rest of the year... the LPC needs all of them to barely break even on a normal operating basis. The only party that consistently operates that way [which the Conservatives and NDP never do].

And starting in a few days, a big chunk of their revenue stream rapidly ratchets southward, while they have cut virtually none of their fixed axpenses.

Malcolm Malcolm's picture

I think the NDP needs to work at fundraising at different levels.

I'm not sure what the call centre structure is federally.  (KenS says there is no national call centre, so are those calls being contracted out?)  I do, however, think that the national level fundraising is on track.  Doubtless there's room to improve - and I think that effort should be made (at least periodically) to sign people up for regular monthly donations.

Where I see the problem is at the riding level.  Under the federal rules, riding association fundraising and national party fundraising are separate.  I don't know about elsewehere, but the brain rust leadership of my federal riding are utterly cluless about what it means.  It never gets mentioned in financial appeals, so people accustomed to the old system (which would be virtually everyone at the event) still believe that $100 to "the NDP" is split between four ways the provincial and federal party and the provincial and federal constituency.  I wanted to set up a PAC drive and was basically shot down by a controlling clique of clueless clusterf**ks.

In my riding, if we could get 1/8 of the member households (about 1/16 of the members) to give an average of $25/month, we'd have enough money every four years to spend the election maximum without ever raising another nickel - and without ever touching the election rebate.  Instead, we prefer to bitch about the federal party raising "our" money and "taking it to Ottawa."

KenS

The Conservatives raise so much money through I highly centralized system. That includes, is built around, the Cadillac of support data base and contact systems.

The NDP needs to do much more of that. But I suspect there are limits to how far we could possibly go with it. And I have a hunch that Conservative fundraising is not terribly efficent cost wise. [The figures to even approximate confirming or denying that are not available.]

Or, that we have different advantages we could make fuller use of.

One would be to make use of those 'direct ask' fundraising capabilities at the riding level. Direct ask being that you ask people for money, rather than trying to win elections with sphaghetti dinners [which is all most people are naturaly comfortable doing].

Relying entirely or mostly on volunteers to do direct ask just does not work. It is too limiting. But if you invest in just the right amount of paid staff leadership, volunteers can raise a lot of money, with very high cost efficiency. But this would require an exceptionaly high commitment to training staff and riding activists. The federal party has just never gone there, and most if not all of the provincial sections to my mind have organizational cultures structurally unable to go there.

KenS

Building capacity at the riding level is both a way to raise more money in general, and a targeted solution to the vexing problem/limitation of how far the NDP can prudently spread money in elections on ridings that have potential but are more than one election cycle away from being in position to win.

We just cannot distribute any more than spare change to those places. While the Conservatives are able to send both organizers and cash, and repeat the benefits as they did in the last election.

We may never be able to send organizers paid for out of the national coffers. But we can afford to between elections spread around organizers who help the locals raise the cash they need, and hire there own organzers. That would be highly leveraging our centrally raised dollars. And it would fit the NDP riding membership culture.... including those folks who would do more if it wasnt the same old clique content to hold exectuve meetings and AGMs no one comes to.

NorthReport

Let's actually start using technology. 

Why does it have to be be only one member one vote for chosing the leader. Why can't we apply one member one vote to any decisions which are made at the riding level. With technological advances perhaps physically attending AGMs is not the best way to do it anymore.

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

NorthReport wrote:

Let's actually start using technology. 

Why does it have to be be only one member one vote for chosing the leader. Why can't we apply one member one vote to any decisions which are made at the riding level. With technological advances perhaps physically attending AGMs is not the best way to do it anymore.

This seems like a very good idea to me. In October, I joined the NDP for the first time because I want to vote on the leadership. (I haven't decided what order to put the candidates in yet, but reading the discussion here has been very educational for me.) It is pretty unlikely, given my introverted personality, that I will ever attend a meeting of my riding association (Hamilton Centre). However, if there were a discussion board like this on which all riding association business was posted and discussed, then voted upon by the membership, I would pay attention to that, maybe even post occasionally. Once I got to know some of the local executives, I might even want to meet them in person.