NDP leadership #114

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Michelle, maybe I'll do some copying and pasting soon (like in the next thread - this one's long). But you know what? It feels like eavesdropping - and also, it's a sad example of the ugly hyper-competitive winner-take-all spirit of the elders being allowed to contaminate the youth, who are far more open to unity for the common cause.

ETA: Plus, many of the comments are in French, and if you don't read those, you don't get a full picture. There probably is no such thing as a full picture anyway.


Oh all right, here's Léo's note - he made it public anyway:


What happened at the New Democratic Youth of Quebec 2012 Congress

by Léo Fugazza on Saturday, 3 March 2012 at 18:56 ·

To everyone who attended today’s JNDQ congress,

Yes, you.

Take a good look at yourself. Are you proud?


I know I am not.


I joined this party because I truly believed it was one way of improving democracy in a country that slowly watches it crumbles and fade away. I joined this party because I wanted to make a difference.


I got involved. I watched and attended debates. I had lively and interesting discussions I am now the youth representative for the NDP association of Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie. I had hopes for this party.


But today was a disgrace.


Today, you proved to all that the young neodemocrats of Québec were children. All of them. Today, you went down a road that would have made many Conservatives proud. Conservatives! That’s how bad you acted.


“They started it!” Really? THAT’s your defense?


How can you dare to call yourself neodemocrats?


I don’t care on which side of the fence you were.

I don’t care that the Mulcair supporters first proposed a resolution to endorse their candidate. Yes, they retracted it. No, it is not an excuse. I don’t care that the Cullen or Nash supporters backed each other, with the support of others, and proposed a resolution to take a neutral stance. Yes, the outcome would have been better. No, it is not an excuse.

I don’t care that the Topp supporters decided to counter attack by proposing  a resolution to endorse their candidate instead. Yes, you had the majority in the room. No, it is not an excuse.


I do care about your real intentions.

I do care that the Mulcair supporters tried to slip the resolution under everyone’s attention and tried to make it pass without opposition. I do care that Cullen or Nash supporters spread the word and schemed to have the resolution defeated or removed, to undermine Mulcair’s support in Québec. I do care that Topp supporters had the audacity to use of a tactic that was not seen since the Duplessis era, and filled the room with, with all due respect, puppets.


This entire process was ludicrous. None of these motions should even have been entertained.


You either tried to suppress the democratic rights of every young neodemocrats in Québec, by forcing them to be part of an organisation that would have endorsed a candidate that they do not necessarily endorse personally, or pretended to fight for these principles for political gains.


You want to know why young people don’t vote, are disengaged? This is why.


You want to know what was worse? You all played along!

You put together a joke, and now everyone has every right to laugh at your expense.


How can you dare to call yourself neodemocrats?


A member of parliament, who used to preside over the group you all pretended to be a part of, had agreed to give of his personal time to chair over this meeting. You humiliated him, and trampled all the democratic principles he held dear. When he tried to save what there was left to save, you even had the arrogance of challenging his chairing!


I want to command Matthew for having stayed as calm as possible in these circumstances. I do not know if I would have fared that well.


I also want to sincerely thank the three other MPs who assisted to today’s “Congress”. You all thought that being there for the future of this country was valuable. I am sorry you had to watch what our future is comprised of.


I want all of you to reflect in length on what happened today. I hope it will never happen again.


Léo Fugazza


Montréal, Québec, Canada

March 3rd, 2012

Let me know if you want to see the comments too.



No, that's okay - as you say, it would feel like eavesdropping if the people who posted the comments might not realize that they would go "really public" - Facebook has this way of making people feel like there's more security or privacy than there really is.  Also, on Facebook you have the option of removing a post if you rethink it, but if they do and it's posted here by someone else, they won't be able to do that.

But thanks for this.  And yes, I imagine that the responses are probably quite illuminating, too.


janfromthebruce wrote:

I believe that Josh posted that nobody was clean and trying to suggest one is to me the dishonest part. That said, I have contemplated just leaving all the Mulcair supporters to run ramport on this board because I've really come to dislike there constant, or appears to me, smearing and suggestive negativity towards some other candidates.

Thanks Josh for giving a "rounded view" of what happen.

That's not fair to the Mulcair supporters or Mulcair. How many threads does Brian Topp have attacking him? Non, how many does Mulcair have attacking him? Six and that's not including leadership threads that have little else but Mulcair attacks and those defending him.

Mulcair has kept thing positive in this campaign, while it was Topp who went on the attack.


Personally Brachina, what a load of crap. I was talking about what is happening here on babble with Mulcair supporters. It's constant posting of your "candidate" and dishing and innuento of other candidates. Personally it's a turn off. And Michelle had it right.


It's news to me that the people who posted the threads about Mulcair are Topp supporters.  Nice assumption, though!


Michelle wrote:


At the last moment from what I am told was a busload of Topp supporters arrived, none of whom seemed familiar to the regulars and suddenly formed the majority.


They didn't just try to hijack the meeting, they did it by packing the room with a bunch of instamembers (14 of which signed up today) that were complete unknowns to the rest of the people there.

Must be that open welcoming spirit you hear so much about the NDP - a bunch of young people who want to get involved get labeled "instamembers" when they come to a meeting and don't vote the right way.  Were they members or not?  How many Quebec members are new members signed up during this campaign?  All those new members that Mulcair signed up to vote for him - are they also "instamembers"?

Hilarious.  Welcome to the NDP!  Now sit down and shut the fuck up, instamember.  We haven't seen you around these parts enough for you to have an opinion.

Just in passing, does anyone here know what happens when you join the Liberal Party?  Probably not, but I can tell you, because I joined the OLP about 13 years ago.  I was only a member for a year, kind of got sucked in because I was volunteering during an election campaign where the only way to get rid of the incumbent Tory was to vote Liberal since the NDP had no chance whatsoever in the riding.  I realized after a while that they weren't left enough for me, so I let my membership lapse after that year and started voting NDP exclusively after that. 

Anyhow, the moment you join the Liberal Party, the riding association tries to get you involved immediately.  They call and tell you when the next meeting is, and when you show up, they see a new face and welcome you with open arms and try to get you involved.  They want to hear your opinion, and they don't look at you suspiciously, wonder if you're some kind of plant, label you an "instamember" or consider you an outsider until three generations of your family has been a member.

So, back to the meeting.  Just so I have it straight - the Mulcair campaigners here on babble who are gleefully feasting on this latest kerfuffle would have been just fine with it had the original motion of the Mulcair supporters in the Quebec youth wing passed and they voted to support Mulcair.  But they are crying foul because Topp's campaign apparently out-organized them and signed up enough young Quebec members of the NDP to attend the meeting and put forward and potentially pass a motion to support Topp.

Do I have that just about right?

I think new supporters is wonderful, what I have problem with is the ambush tactics by Topp organizers, the Topp camp planned on how to gather as many supporter suddenly in order to force the JNDQ to endorse Topp well in advanced, didn't mention it in advanced, the other camps agreed to remain neutral, so they had no chance to organize and gather thier supporters to counter the move. Topp struck when he knew the other camps had thier defenses down. Ambush.

Topp may have gotten his endorsement, but at a huge cost, both to his own campaign and to the Quebec sectian as a whole. I just don't think anyone will take the endorsement as genuine.




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