NDP Leadership #120

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TheArchitect
NDP Leadership #120

I see Peggy Nash has picked up two very nice new endorsements from BC MLAs Shane Simpson and Spencer Chandra Herbert.

Simpson: “I’ve been following all candidates closely and I am confident Peggy is the one who can most effectively ramp up our party’s momentum to 2015.”

Chandra Herbert: “Peggy is a fierce fighter when she needs to be, and a consensus builder when that’s required to get a job done.”

http://peggynash.ca/2012/two-more-bc-politicians-endorse-peggy-nash-ahea...

Issues Pages: 
Regions: 
socialdemocrati...

KenS wrote:

Rakhmetov wrote:

 Martin Singh wouldn't think that I'm "slagging" him at all.

Presumptuous of you.

I'm not supporting Martin, but he is a friend, and he is not hear to speak for himself.

Trust me, you've misrepresented him more than once.

I take some comfort that the slander isn't really working. Haven't seen many critics seize on it as helping their case, and everyone else is ignoring it or getting turned right off.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Did Martin Singh really call Brian Topp a liar at one of the  debates? I'm sure I heard it, but I've been wrong about so many things lately. Frown

KenS

Rakhmetov wrote:

 Martin Singh wouldn't think that I'm "slagging" him at all.

Presumptuous of you.

I'm not supporting Martin, but he is a friend, and he is not hear to speak for himself.

You've substantially misrepresented more than once his approach and goals of organizing among Sikhs.

socialdemocrati...

That part happened.

The slander is that he's been bought off to do it on someone else's behalf.

KenS

Yes, the alleged conspiratorial motivation for going after Topp is ridiculous. Martin clearly has a strategy of pushing heavily a very limited number of points. If you remember nothing else about Martin Singh when this is all over....

He seemed to want tax policy to be one of those, and apparently took overly to heart that Topp was not playing the appropriare role.

He called Topp a liar in French.

Someone pointed out that may be a case of limited vocabulary- that he probably would not have called him a liar if that exchanghad been in English. Sounds plausible to me.

I think Martin was being really dogged- overly so. But that sounded really carried away, and seems likely he did not mean to make it that strong.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Thanks for that, Ken and SD.

DSloth

Yeah Martin is just employing the classic back-of-the-pack strategy of trying to climb up by picking off one of the weaker candidates.

If he was just in this to help Mulcair he could deliver thousands of votes just by asking his supporters to mark Tom second. That would buy him much less bad blood in the Party, particularly if as expected Mulcair ends up on top.  

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Well, I watched the debate, had difficulty with the French as I'm not 100% bilingual (more like 40%) but Singh looked angry and hot. That's the first time I've seen him that way.

algomafalcon

Boom Boom wrote:

Well, I watched the debate, had difficulty with the French as I'm not 100% bilingual (more like 40%) but Singh looked angry and hot. That's the first time I've seen him that way.

 

Newsflash: Martin Singh is "hottest" looking candidate, even when he's angry. Wink

North Star

http://news.yahoo.com/mulcair-singh-appear-team-ndp-leadership-contest-183126899.html

Has this been posted yet? Are the pro-Mulcair types just going to dismiss this as the MSM never being able to accurately report about the NDP?

Hunky_Monkey

North Star wrote:

http://news.yahoo.com/mulcair-singh-appear-team-ndp-leadership-contest-183126899.html

Has this been posted yet? Are the pro-Mulcair types just going to dismiss this as the MSM never being able to accurately report about the NDP?

More speculation.

I think Martin got ticked at the way Topp dismissed him in their first exchange.

And why would Tom want to go after someone who is reported to be in fifth place?

And hang out together? Oh dear god. Really? Well, Tom and Peggy hugged and kissed here in NS... want to speculate if that means something too?

DSloth

North Star wrote:

http://news.yahoo.com/mulcair-singh-appear-team-ndp-leadership-contest-183126899.html

Has this been posted yet? Are the pro-Mulcair types just going to dismiss this as the MSM never being able to accurately report about the NDP?

If Martin Singh was doing Tom's bidding he'd just endorse him, or at the least tell his supporters to vote Tom 2nd. 

It's safe to say whatever strategy Singh is employing is of his own devise.

vaudree

RE: "Peggy is a fierce fighter when she needs to be, and a consensus builder when that's required to get a job done."

I think that the kinder gentler Mulcair that we've been seeing during the debates is to deflect the idea that Mulcair doesn't work well with others. No one questions whether Mulcair can meet the first half of what Chandra Herbert said about Nash, it is the second half that he needs to convince people of.

Re Lie:

It is very interesting the creative ways that MPs come up with to avoid actually using the word "liar" during an exchange. My personal favourite was when Pat Martin told Mulroney that he was not calling him a liar but did not want anyone to think that he actually believed him.

If Mulcair is using Martin Singh as his personal John Baird ...

Either way, that arrangement would benefit Singh in that he can show himself as being ready to handle debate and being fairly bilingual from the get-go - which would both help him get elected and make it seem likely to the people voting for him that he will be given a prestigious position - possibly Health Critic if not Health Minister.

I saw Jack Layton putting Libby Davies as Health Critic in part to show the strength of party support for Insite and in part because an MP of Libby Davies calibre deserved a prestigious post. Libby Davies is also passionate about Housing, though many of her supporters would see that as a demotion.

The media seems to want to lump the MPs into camps with Nash and Ashton being more traditional NDP and Mulcair and Singh being more pro business (albeit small local businesses).

Haven't seen Mulcair in any sweater vests - only hockey jerseys. Trying to dispel the notion that "grandma" Mulcair isn't playing us with the ballots for Red Ridinghood.

 

socialdemocrati...

These threads get worse and worse.

vaudree

Hunky_Monkey wrote:
Oh dear god. Really? Well, Tom and Peggy hugged and kissed here in NS... want to speculate if that means something too?

If this was happening in the United States, it would be the beginnings of a sex scandal!  Maybe the CBC would televise the debates then!

Hunky_Monkey

My partner, mother, grandmother, best friend and his family still haven't received their ballots.

Anyone else?

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Quote:
These threads get worse and worse.

You're telling me.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Just two weeks to go, then we can start threads denouncing the newly-elected Leader! Smile

Idealistic Prag... Idealistic Pragmatist's picture

Boom Boom wrote:

Just two weeks to go, then we can start threads denouncing the newly-elected Leader! Smile

I am so very outta here then.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

I think the Mods should probably discuss amongst themselves on what should be tolerated after the leadership election - maybe concentrate on issues rather than personalities, for a change.

Ottawa Centre-Left

socialdemocraticmiddle wrote:

These threads get worse and worse.

 

Agreed. It's time to enjoy the weekend and check back in a few days...

Howard

That Singh article gave me a good laugh. While I agree he went well over the line in his repeated calling of Topp "a liar" at the Montréal debate, the rest sounds ludicrous. The last thing I am willing to believe is that Martin Singh is not an independent thinking person that is able to acquit himself of his own actions. I remember a few weeks back there was speculation in the media and on babble that Niki Ashton and Tom Mulcair were getting too cozy. Then there came a news article of her denouncing rumours that she would drop out of the race and support Tom. Where was or is the fire and brimstone about Chisholm and Mulcair or Saganash and Mulcair being too cozy? Despite the fact that Saganash and Tom both said nice things about eachother (and signed eachother's nomination papers) at the beginning of the race, and that Tom cribbed Saganash's resource partnerships idea there was no talk about Roméo being Tom's toadie. Everyone, correctly, assumed that Saganash is perfectly capable of thinking and acting for himself. And I repeat, what about Chisholm? Then there has been speculation about Cullen being too friendly with Mulcair and how intentional that may be. And what about the other 41 MPs supporting Mulcair: clearly complete sellouts! Process of elimination suggests that Peggy Nash will be accused of being a closet "Mulcairist" next, because Nash has run such a positive campaign. The horror, oh the horror!

AnonymousMouse

It's interesting that the article above doesn't contain a single shread of evidence to substantiate the claim that Singh is attacking others on Mulcair's behalf--just fact-free accusations from other campaigns, namely the Topp campaign.

But isn't there a big risk to making these accusations publicly? Namely that the accusations themselves would be a signal to Singh supporters that he supports Mulcair as his second choice?

I suspect that those making the claim (i.e. the Topp campaign) think, possibly correctly, that Singh is already supporting Mulcair as his second choice and they're simply making these claims without any evidence to support them because if Singh is already recommending Mulcair as a second choice then it can't hurt them either way, but it could hurt Mulcair by making him look like he's lying about running a positive campaign. If Topp's campaign hadn't already determined that Singh was likely to wind up supporting Mulcair, then they would be running a heck of a risk by making these accusations in the first place--a risk of driving Singh supporters to Mulcair.

Ultimately, whether Singh winds up supporting Mulcair at some point or not, I think a much better explanation for why Singh has gone after Topp would be the way that Topp rudely dismissed Singh's question about Topp's tax plan in Quebec City when, in fact, Singh was right about the details of the plan and Topp was wrong.

nicky

I have checked today with 4 or 5 of my friends who are recent sign-ups. None has yet received a ballot.

Do we have a problem developing here?

On another note:

 

The Toronto Mulcair team is hosting another DEBATE PARTY

This Sunday at 3 pm

At TOBY'S. 411 College St, just east of Bathurst.

Everyone, regardless of leadership preference, is welcome to watch Tom roll up his 6th straight debate win.

 

CanadaApple

I don't think Mulcair is as accessible as some of his supporters say he is. Sure, he may do lots of events and answer lots of question, but for someone like me who lives in a more or less rural area, where to my knowledge no one from the NDP has been elected on the federal or provincial level, going to a Mulcair event is hard to do. Not only that, but I think I've sent his campaign three e-mails since the first debate, and I've only ever gotten a reply to one of them. In fairness, I only sent the last one on this past saturday. I do like to give people a week on average to reply. If I don't get a reply soon, I'll try again. I really want an answer, and if I'm not going to get it in e-mail, I hope I get it in some other form, but with just two weeks left to go...

flight from kamakura

if people haven't got their voting packages, i believe they can call this number: 1-866-525-2555

Skinny Dipper

CanadaApple wrote:

I don't think Mulcair is as accessible as some of his supporters say he is. Sure, he may do lots of events and answer lots of question, but for someone like me who lives in a more or less rural area, where to my knowledge no one from the NDP has been elected on the federal or provincial level, going to a Mulcair event is hard to do. Not only that, but I think I've sent his campaign three e-mails since the first debate, and I've only ever gotten a reply to one of them. In fairness, I only sent the last one on this past saturday. I do like to give people a week on average to reply. If I don't get a reply soon, I'll try again. I really want an answer, and if I'm not going to get it in e-mail, I hope I get it in some other form, but with just two weeks left to go...

I wonder which rabble-rouser was talking about trying to get an email reply.  Keep on trying.

Unionist

Boom Boom wrote:

Just two weeks to go, then we can start threads denouncing the newly-elected Leader! Smile

Well, that would be very negative and destructive, which is precisely why I have formally proposed that the race be extended for another 10 years, to give the candidates a full opportunity to purchase new microscopes and find distinctions between each other, as well as to develop some multi-generational blood feuds.

Today's New Democrats - transforming victory and unity into division and defeat, since May 2.

 

Lachine Scot

flight from kamakura wrote:

if people haven't got their voting packages, i believe they can call this number: 1-866-525-2555

Although, I tried calling it and they seemed to be closed for the weekend.

Skinny Dipper

flight from kamakura wrote:

if people haven't got their voting packages, i believe they can call this number: 1-866-525-2555

Thanks for the number, kamakura.  It is only good from 9-5 Monday to Thursday, and I believe 9-noon Friday (Eastern).  I'll try again on Monday.  I did send membership an email to membership@ndp.ca.

socialdemocrati...

I imagine things will get really unhinged here after the election is over. If Mulcair loses, his supporters will panic and proclaim that the country is destined to fall into a black hole. If Mulcair wins, his critics will proclaim the party has sold out and begin organizing marches and boycotts. If Nathan Cullen wins, there will be a mix of confusion and panic. If Paul Dewar wins, we'll all be on suicide watch. If Martin Singh wins, at least we'll have proof that he's not under mind control from Thomas Mulcair.

Stockholm

Apparently Singh may get fined by the party and made publicly apologize for calling Topp a "liar". All leadership candidates pledged to avoid any personal attacks...if you call a member of another party a "liar" in the House of Commons - you get ejected by the speaker. I don't think its too much to ask that people who are all from the same party should be more civil to each other than members of opposing parties in the house.

Skinny Dipper

About the alledged Mulcair-Singh association thing, I wonder how the other leadership candidates will deal with Mr. Singh at the next debate.

Prairie Lefty

Shifting gears slightly but I thought this was kind of noteworthy. Leadnow released a report on the candidates' positions on electoral reform. Peggy Nash's proposal for reform was rated the strongest and Thomas Mulcair makes his support for PR clear in the full response section.  http://leadnow.ca/cooperate-report

AnonymousMouse

Stockholm wrote:

Apparently Singh may get fined by the party and made publicly apologize for calling Topp a "liar". All leadership candidates pledged to avoid any personal attacks...if you call a member of another party a "liar" in the House of Commons - you get ejected by the speaker. I don't think its too much to ask that people who are all from the same party should be more civil to each other than members of opposing parties in the house.

Wow. Where are you hearing that? I would be surprised to learn that the party has the power to fine a candidate. Especially in this case since, while it may be a matter of semantics, Singh accused Topp of lying, not of being a "liar". Not a huge difference, but the latter is a much clearer personal attack whereas one could argue that whether or not a specific statement is a lie is, or at least can be, considered a purely factual question (like in a perjury trial).

Lord Palmerston

Maybe Singh should run for the LPC leadership. 

Howard

Stockholm wrote:

Apparently Singh may get fined by the party and made publicly apologize for calling Topp a "liar". All leadership candidates pledged to avoid any personal attacks...if you call a member of another party a "liar" in the House of Commons - you get ejected by the speaker. I don't think its too much to ask that people who are all from the same party should be more civil to each other than members of opposing parties in the house.

I'll wait for the details on this. It would be better for the party if things could get resolved without a fine. Singh was over the line though. Calling Topp a liar once = questionable. Calling Topp a liar something like 3 times including once when Topp couldn't reply (closing statements) = out of line.

nicky

Some interesting comments by Alice Funke on Power Play on the state of the race.

http://watch.ctv.ca/news/power-play/march-9/#clip635350

She mostly discusses BC where she says Cullen is ahead by "a nose", Mulcir coming on strong, Nash strong in West End and South Island and Topp not coming up to his early promise. Dewar just looking for second ballot support in BC.

Listen for yourselves in case I have misstated anything.

Stockholm

The CP story has been updated:

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/mulcair-singh-appear-to-team-up-...

In the aftermath of the Montreal debate, Eric Hebert-Daly, the NDP's chief electoral officer, sent a memo to all campaign teams noting that "candidates have at times used unparliamentary language" during recent party-sponsored events.

He said such language isn't permitted in the House of Commons and won't be tolerated in the leadership contest either.

"If during a debate or a speech that is hosted by the party, a candidate says something that is unacceptable or a personal attack, I will give the moderator or stage manager the right to cut the microphone of the guilty party," Hebert-Daly says in the memo, obtained by The Canadian Press.

"I will follow up with a full discussion and a financial penalty to the candidate. A public apology will need to be posted in the public domain as part of the penalty."

Howard

socialdemocraticmiddle wrote:

I imagine things will get really unhinged here after the election is over. If Mulcair loses, his supporters will panic and proclaim that the country is destined to fall into a black hole. If Mulcair wins, his critics will proclaim the party has sold out and begin organizing marches and boycotts. If Nathan Cullen wins, there will be a mix of confusion and panic. If Paul Dewar wins, we'll all be on suicide watch. If Martin Singh wins, at least we'll have proof that he's not under mind control from Thomas Mulcair.

As a Mulcair supporter, I will shut my yap and support whomever is the new party leader. The differences between the candidates are not so great as to shed any tears. Leaders are also accountable to the membership for the things that matter, like policy. Dewar is my least favourite, but if he wins, my philosophy will be that he has earned it and I want him to suceed.

Skinny Dipper

I will support whoever wins the leadership race.

flight from kamakura

me too.  even if, by some act of providence, martin singh won the leadership, i'd still do everything i could to get him elected pm.

in other news, i'm very much looking forward to the debate this weekend, there should be some real fireworks, which aren't necessarily helpful to the ndp, but from which - political junkie that i am - i take a guilty pleasure.  we'll get a better sense of how the strategist topp is reacting to his collapsing campaign, we'll get a better sense of where cullen stands viz the other candidates, we'll get a better sense of how far singh is willing to go to help mulcair (which i think is completely uncoordinated but also undeniable).  and best of all, we'll see if the other candidates still consider dewar to be a big threat.  since this whole process won't be happening again for a while, i plan to savor this last debate.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

I guess every one of the seven candidates left have opposition within the party to them, so no matter who wins this, someone is going to feel bitter and maybe disenfranchised. Whoever wins will have a huge job in mending bridges and getting everyone onside. It actually may be impossible to keep everyone onside, no matter who wins this, I just hope everyone can be civil once this is over - I know I'll try to be.

ETA: since I already voted, I'm unsubscribing to all the candidate emails. Just got a new one from Niki Ashton, which I deleted without reading. I'll be so happy when this over.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

I guess I'll adopt the position whereby if I can't say something good about a candidate, I won't say anything at all - but I reserve the right to suspend this position for the duration of Sunday's debate. Innocent

nicky
Hunky_Monkey

So if Singh is doing Mulcair's "dirty work", is Ashton doing the same for Topp?

I've said before btw that I'll support the new leader regardless who wins. I'll do my tiny part for party unity. I hope everyone else will do the same.

Hunky_Monkey

This is interesting but not unexpected...

Quote:
It also appears Brad Lavigne, principal secretary to the leader of the official Opposition and one of Layton’s close confidants, has contributed $1,000 to the Topp campaign.

janfromthebruce

oh unionist, I so am stealing that Kiss

 

Unionist wrote:

Boom Boom wrote:

Just two weeks to go, then we can start threads denouncing the newly-elected Leader! Smile

Well, that would be very negative and destructive, which is precisely why I have formally proposed that the race be extended for another 10 years, to give the candidates a full opportunity to purchase new microscopes and find distinctions between each other, as well as to develop some multi-generational blood feuds.

Today's New Democrats - transforming victory and unity into division and defeat, since May 2.

 

______________________________________________________________________________________ Our kids live together and play together in their communities, let's have them learn together too!

Unionist

janfromthebruce wrote:

oh unionist, I so am stealing that Kiss

 

No need, Lady Jan of the Bruce - I hereby bestow it upon thee free of any charge, that thou mayest wear it in good health!

 

socialdemocrati...

Howard wrote:
As a Mulcair supporter, I will shut my yap and support whomever is the new party leader. The differences between the candidates are not so great as to shed any tears. Leaders are also accountable to the membership for the things that matter, like policy. Dewar is my least favourite, but if he wins, my philosophy will be that he has earned it and I want him to suceed.

Yeah, sorry if I'm painting anyone with a broad brush. I'm ready to take the same pledge, starting from "I will shut my yap" and ending with "succeed".

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