NDP Leadership #122

110 posts / 0 new
Last post
JoshD
NDP Leadership #122

....

socialdemocrati...

If they were going to be in some kind of alliance, you'd think Singh would have proclaimed his endorsement with more than a few hours before mail-in voting is finished.

I guess this is all part of some brilliant conspiracy though.

Hunky_Monkey

Oops KenS...got mixed up :) My apologies. Some sensitive though...

NorthReport

JoshD - Ha! Ha!

Jumping the gun a bit aren't we?

Quote:
Johal says he expects Singh himself to openly endorse Mulcair as his own preferred second choice

JoshD

NorthReport wrote:

JoshD - Ha! Ha!

Jumping the gun a bit aren't we?

Quote:
Johal says he expects Singh himself to openly endorse Mulcair as his own preferred second choice

 

Hehe, sorry!! Wanted to have the scoop.

JoshD
Lord Palmerston

I've kind of had enough of these threads.  My feeling is Mulcair will win in the end.  

NorthReport

Or wouldn't we rather continue our losing streak in Saskatchewan, and perhaps get shutout for the 5th federal election in a row there, and also throw in the towel in Quebec, as after all, who needs those 59 seats?
Mulcair defends new NDP vision

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/mulcair-defends-new-ndp-vision-1...

khechtman

In the last leadership thread, CanadaApple asked:

[...]Then they asked me if their was anything I wanted to know that might sway me into supporting him, which gave me the chance to ask him what role party members would play in the party if Mulcair were to become leader. They said that it was a good question, but they didn't have the answer. So they offered to have someone call me back at a later time who had the information [...]

I'm working on the campaign and following a conversation with Tom's constit assistant, I can answer the question. Tom wants a more active role for the membership. We've moved a bit too far in the direction of "staff does everything" and we need to come back to giving the members real responsibility. In particular, if we're going to grow the party, that kind of work can only be done by the members and the best way to do it can only be determined by real conversations between the long-term members and the recently signed-up ones.

Hope this helps.

 

duncan cameron

The MSM has so little understanding of NDP culture. It is sad they are the source of information for party members. I remember CAW president Bob White explaining the union communicates with its members once in awhile, and they read the Windsor Star every day.

Hoodeet

khechtman wrote:

In the last leadership thread, CanadaApple asked:

[...]Then they asked me if their was anything I wanted to know that might sway me into supporting him, which gave me the chance to ask him what role party members would play in the party if Mulcair were to become leader. They said that it was a good question, but they didn't have the answer. So they offered to have someone call me back at a later time who had the information [...]

I'm working on the campaign and following a conversation with Tom's constit assistant, I can answer the question. Tom wants a more active role for the membership. We've moved a bit too far in the direction of "staff does everything" and we need to come back to giving the members real responsibility. In particular, if we're going to grow the party, that kind of work can only be done by the members and the best way to do it can only be determined by real conversations between the long-term members and the recently signed-up ones.

Hope this helps.

 

Hoodeet (JW)

Yes, thanks. It does help.  Fewer decisions from staff, more from members = better chance of having a responsive leadership.

Rabble_Incognito

An undefined centrist position, that would suck. I'm definitely going to the convention.

Topp is right on it. Nash too.

Howard

duncan cameron wrote:

The MSM has so little understanding of NDP culture. It is sad they are the source of information for party members. I remember CAW president Bob White explaining the union communicates with its members once in awhile, and they read the Windsor Star every day.

+1

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

The point has been made many times in these leadership threads that a centrist position by the NDP in the next election may be the best hope for achieving the status of government, rather than being consigned to opposition status yet again. And I made the point not long ago that once in power, the NDP can gradually shift policy positions leftward without alienating the electorate. If the party runs left of centre, that's just giving Harper another majority.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Exactly, NR.

NorthReport

The establishment within the party, apart from perhaps Brad Lavigne who boldly and accurately predicted the results of the last election, were shocked out of their trees that the NDP could do as well as it did. This leadership race is boiling down to who wants to win the next election vs who wants to control the party. I'm not interested in any kind of loyalty tests. My priority is to win, and have the NDP form the government in Ottawa, while having the most democracy possible both wihin and outside the NDP, with some fabulous and inspiring new energy, and that is essentially why I am backing Tom.

Of course Tom's own personal track record, to say nothing of the 59 seats he, and yes he, engineered for the NDP in Quebec, might have a wee bit to do with it too. Laughing 

CanadaApple

khechtman wrote:

In the last leadership thread, CanadaApple asked:

[...]Then they asked me if their was anything I wanted to know that might sway me into supporting him, which gave me the chance to ask him what role party members would play in the party if Mulcair were to become leader. They said that it was a good question, but they didn't have the answer. So they offered to have someone call me back at a later time who had the information [...]

I'm working on the campaign and following a conversation with Tom's constit assistant, I can answer the question. Tom wants a more active role for the membership. We've moved a bit too far in the direction of "staff does everything" and we need to come back to giving the members real responsibility. In particular, if we're going to grow the party, that kind of work can only be done by the members and the best way to do it can only be determined by real conversations between the long-term members and the recently signed-up ones.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the response Khechtman, it is helpful. I'm just curious though, you say you are working on the Mulcair Campaign, but what would your role be in it?

duncan cameron

North Report credits Tom for the win? Jack was featured in every ad that played in 

Quebec. Pierre Ducasse did the spade work building the party. Bloc voters moved to the NDP. Was it to vote for a former Liberal cabinet minister?

 

NorthReport

And as BB says why can't the NDP just do the opposite of following the Liberals past very successful strategy of campaigning on the left and governing on the right, by having a Mulcair-led NDP campaign on the right, and govern on the left.  And I challenge anyone to say it can't be done as the Liberals exploiited that tactic in the past very successfully for years just in reverse.  

duncan cameron

Boom Boom take a look at the Maclean's interview with Richard Johnston. He explains what will happen to someonw who moves to the centre against forces polarizing. You lose your people, and the right wins.

duncan cameron

My proudest moment as an Ndp member was when Jack offered to bring down Harper by inviting the Libs to form a coalition. So Mulcair says in a HUff Post interview he rules out a coalition totally, not ever. Therefore he will not be on my preferential ballot.

 

CanadaApple

duncan cameron wrote:

My proudest moment as an Ndp member was when Jack offered to bring down Harper by inviting the Libs to form a coalition. So Mulcair says in a HUff Post interview he rules out a coalition totally, not ever. Therefore he will not be on my preferential ballot.

 

Link?

duncan cameron

NR the rest of Canada did not have Bloc members, or the campaign done by Ray Guardia in Quebec.

duncan cameron

Sorry Canada Apple, try google. I have trouble sharing links with an iPad, and not my computer.

NorthReport

I see the that loyalty test.

Strange I was never asked for that when I joined the party. Is this something new, a really brilliant way to attract newcomers and help grow the party. NOT!

But I'm really glad you mentioned Jack, not to take anything away from our beloved Jack Layton bless his soul, nor any of the others involved with the NPD.

Of course though Mulcair was the architect of the NPD winning 59 seats in Quebec.

Who else in the NPD has been elected 3 times in Quebec besides Mulcair?

Two times in Quebec for the NPD besides Mulcair?

Anyone in any general election for the NPD in Quebec prior to Mulcair?

Answer me this: If the 59 seats that the NPD achieved in Quebec in the last election did not have much to do with Thomas Mulcair, why didn't Jack Layton and the rest of the NDP team achieve similiarly successful results in the rest of Canada. They didn't, and I, as one of those people outside Quebec know why we didn't. And of course we had great people, but we didn't have Thomas Mulcair fighting the good NDP fight in the rest of Canada for us.

Imagine.

Imagine how well we can do across Canada with Mulcair at the helm. Nothing succeeds like success.

 

 

duncan cameron wrote:

North Report credits Tom for the win? Jack was featured in every ad that played in 

Quebec. Pierre Ducasse did the spade work building the party. Bloc voters moved to the NDP. Was it to vote for a former Liberal cabinet minister?

 

Hunky_Monkey

Tom was a big piece of the puzzle... he travelled the province constantly and recruited candidates... many of them our new rising stars.

Stockholm

duncan, that's not uite what happened. first of all mulcair was featured in NDP ads in quebec along side Jack. i agree that Mulcair doesn't deserve ALL the credit for the breakthrough in QC, but he deserves a lot of credit. He campaigned all over Quebec in the last election as Jack's number one surrogate and he recruited a lot of candidates.

its also worth noting that while the NDP did take a lot of votes from the BQ, it also took a ton of federalist votes in Quebec from people who used gto vote Liberal and even some from ex-Tories in quebec city.

Hunky_Monkey

BTW, duncan... what's Peggy's position this week on coalitions and "pooling resources"?

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Duncan, you forget the Liberals were the only provincial federalist party in Quebec that Mulcair could have run for. And Layton invited him to run for the NDP after Mulcair left the Quebec Liberals on a matter of principle, and made him Deputy.  Layton clearly saw Tom as someone exceptionally gifted and a good fit for the NDP. I agree Pierre Ducasse is another exceptional person who should be running - I campaigned for him here on the Quebec coast.

duncan cameron

Tom takes more credit than he deserves. My idea of a leader is someone who credits others for success, and accepts responsibiity for failure.

duncan cameron

Jack once told me recruiting candidates was his main activity.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

He credited others that helped him in his debate comments yesterday, Duncan - more than all the  other candidates combined did.

Stockholm

i can see Mulcair and Topp having great potential in Quebec. Dewar would ofcourse be a total disaster there. i have my doubts about Peggy Nash. she seems to speak French well enough, but i don't get the impression that she had any political instincts for Quebec. its not just about speaking the language. Ignatieff was very fluent in French but he just never "clicked" with Quebecers. i'm afraid Peggy would always seem like a tourist how happens to have excelled in a few Berlitz courses. i can't see her ebing able to defend the NDP on issues around the Sherbrooke Declaration and the constitution etc...

Stockholm

duncan cameron wrote:

Jack once told me recruiting candidates was his main activity.

yet he was featured in NDP TV ads alongside Jack.

duncan cameron

Boom Boom Tom is a great MP, a wonderful parliamentary performer. Jack did us all a great favour by recriuiting him. Is he the leader we need now?

I think not. He supports Nafta, and derides opponents of that view. That would be me.

Hunky_Monkey

Stockholm wrote:

duncan cameron wrote:

Jack once told me recruiting candidates was his main activity.

yet he was featured in NDP TV ads alongside Jack.

If I'm not mistaken, one featured Tom as the focus of the ad...

NorthReport

I'm flabergasted that someone, apart from opposition parties, would suggest that Mulcair was not the major architect and a not major contributor, to the NPD's recent electoral success in Quebec.

C'est incroyable!

DSloth

duncan cameron wrote:

My proudest moment as an Ndp member was when Jack offered to bring down Harper by inviting the Libs to form a coalition.

Yeah Mulcair backed it at the time too, [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAexfaC1sD4]pretty fervently[/url], but he also doesn't forget that the Liberals then abandoned the idea of coalition and propped up the Conservatives for another 3 years. Tom will hold his nose and work with the Liberals again if we end up in another minority situation but I'd much prefer we join that bargaining table as the senior partner this time.

Stockholm

I should add that the Quebec situation is about to get a lot stickier. It now looks like the PQ could win the next Quebec election and that could start a new drum beat for another referendum and cauyse a new national unity crisis. the next NDP leader will have gto be EXTREMELY well versed in all aspects of the Quebec/constitution/national unity files. There is no time for any learning curve.

NorthReport

That is an inaccurate statement.

I was at a meeting with Tom and 20 others last week where this issue was discussed, and Tom has some reservations about some parts of NAFTA like we all do. He just doesn't want to throw the baby out with the bath water.

duncan cameron wrote:

Boom Boom Tom is a great MP, a wonderful parliamentary performer. Jack did us all a great favour by recriuiting him. Is he the leader we need now?

I think not. He supports Nafta, and derides opponents of that view. That would be me.

Stockholm

Perhaps I missed something, but i can't remember Jack saying a word about NAFTA in any of the four election campaign he led the NDP through. there are plenty of things to take issue with with Mulcair but in the case of NAFTA it seems to me that the NDP quietly dropped it as an issue about 10 years ago.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

duncan cameron wrote:

Boom Boom Tom is a great MP, a wonderful parliamentary performer. Jack did us all a great favour by recriuiting him. Is he the leader we need now?

I think not. He supports Nafta, and derides opponents of that view. That would be me.

Don't kid yourself Duncan, none of the other candidates would - or could - do anything to abolish NAFTA. Tom is talking about improving it - I think in a recent thread someone gave a link that said Tom wants better labour provisions in NAFTA, and another provision, although I can't recall which one.

Hunky_Monkey

Stockholm wrote:

Perhaps I missed something, but i can't remember Jack saying a word about NAFTA in any of the four election campaign he led the NDP through. there are plenty of things to take issue with with Mulcair but in the case of NAFTA it seems to me that the NDP quietly dropped it as an issue about 10 years ago.

Agreed. Seriously, do you find Mulcair held to a higher/different standard than the other candidates? And a double standard... Peggy & Romeo say the same thing as Tom regarding personal income taxes but it's "ok" for them... but with Tom, he isn't a real New Democrat.

CanadaApple

duncan cameron wrote:

Sorry Canada Apple, try google. I have trouble sharing links with an iPad, and not my computer.

 

Is this what you meant?

One thing Mulcair is clear on is that he'll go after Liberal supporters, but won't work with the rival party.

"N.O.," he told HuffPost. The NDP tried to form a coalition with the Liberals in 2008 and then the Grits "lifted their noses up on it,"Mulcair said.

The coalition experience taught Mulcair everything he needs to know about the Liberals. They're untrustworthy and he said he'll never work with them again, whether in a formal or informal coalition.

"The no is categorical, absolute, irrefutable and non-negotiable. It's no. End of story. Full stop," he said.

duncan cameron

Nafta just got live again. The only way to stop the rape of Alberta through bitumen exports, short of nationalizing the resource which is under provincial jurisdiction is to impose an export tax. That contravenes Nafta. Let's do it and let the Americans protest, and then we can agree to trade under WTO rules. Canadians will support us.

The environmental provisions of Nafta are a joke. Reporting procedures and (good) research. That is the baby?

Tom has the Quebec position, re-negotiate Nafta. Sorry, that it windoow dressing, posturing. Every concession you gain in a re-negotiation, you pay for with a fresh concesssion. 

 

 

 

 

DSloth

If you're looking for a candidate committed to withdrawing from Nafta I think you'll need to take a time machine back three leadership contests.

duncan cameron

Stock I agree about the rise of Quebec nationalism, plan C as announced by Drainville, and the discovery by Marois that she can run against Ottawa now that the Bloc are no longer occupying that ground. I saw the Bloc numbers move past the NDP numbers.

I hate to think of Mulcair re-running the old debates. I want to change the channel, move to support from the Federal goverment for the French language. I want Quebec to discover Francophiles outside Quebec, there are 300,000 of us in BC, speaking French as a second language.

Dion in the NatPost wants to champion Canada against Quebec, the same old BS. I fear Tom willl reflex into the same position

Lets fight Cons, not the Bloc. If Quebec sees Ont. and BC moving against Harper, and to the NDP, the NDP vote in Quebec will hold.

Peggy knows Ontario, and can topple enough of the 75 Con seats, to form a coaltion with the Libs.

Now what about Tom and coalitions? 

Stockholm

Ditto, no one is campaigning on a promise to withdraw from NAFTA and Jack never did. So why pick on Tom.

I am. Bit more bothered by Tom saying he would never work with the Librrals in any way shape or form. What's the point of that? This is like what Ignatieff said to the NDP last election that caused Liberal support to collapse. I agree that we should reject any pre- election deals like what Cullen proposes. But ruling out any deal post election seems a bit crazy.

Policywonk

duncan cameron wrote:

Tom has the Quebec position, re-negotiate Nafta. Sorry, that it windoow dressing, posturing. Every concession you gain in a re-negotiation, you pay for with a fresh concesssion. 

It's not clear to me that any of the candidates have a much different position.

duncan cameron

Allow me to repeat again I have the greatest respect for Tom Mulcair. I would never question his ability as an MP or his contribution on the front benches of the party. I have said in public that I have never seen his equal as a parliamentarian.

i just have decided not to vote for him as leader. Besides I have a candidate I trust to do the job, someone Canadians will support despite their past reluctance to vote NDP.

Some of you may have seen this already.

http://rabble.ca/columnists/2012/03/marking-your-preferential-ballot-nex...

Comments welcome here.

Jacob Two-Two

It seems clear to me, seeing Mulcair's campaign, that he is taking the longest view. He is already campaigning to be Prime Minister. While most other opponents have been speaking directly to the NDP membership, Mulcair has been treading a super fine line to both craft policies that the NDP membership will accept as sufficiently left-wing and yet provide no ammunition for the Media and Conservative hit machine in traditional red-baiting territories. The NAFTA line is such an example, barely acceptable to the NDP base, yet nothing for the attack dogs to latch onto.

Pages

Topic locked