The NDP in one shocking word…

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Benoit
The NDP in one shocking word…

Stillborn. How come!? Human beings in general and Canadians even more so are rightly seeing themselves much more as capitalists than as workers. Depending on which blend of human, financial, physical, social, cultural and natural capital they identify with, Canadians will vote for one political party.

Fidel

Neither of our two high powered big money capitalist parties rose above 22 percent of registered voter support in the federal election. And somewhere around two percent of Canadians hold membership in a political party. And I doubt many citizens of our largest province could recall the name of our 22 percent premier whose party won 66 percent of legislature seats and 100 percent of power in 2007. It's still a Bay Street agenda in Ottawa and Toronto, but their recent electoral results werent exactly ringing endorsements for the "new" Liberal capitalism.

Benoit

In Ottawa, you find an opposition to this financial capital in the Bloc Quebecois. The Bloc is carried by Quebecers believing their cultural and natural capital guarantee their independence.

genstrike

I see Capital in your analysis, and I agree that we are losing class consciousness.

But where is Capital's old opponent, Labour?

Bookish Agrarian

The fish

Benoit

By stillborn I mean the capitalists’ opponent was never alive. Curiously, I think there is a parallelism to explore between, on one side, communism and being born dead and between, on the other side, "Fidel Castro" meaning fidelity to one’s castration.

Fidel

[url=Worn">http://www.democraticspace.com/canada2008/2008/10/worn-out-neoliberal-pr... out neoliberal propaganda targets Layton[/url] 

Quote:
Dion and Harper repeatedly targeted Layton with an old and worn out quick blast about Laytons so called socialist ideas. Guess what, the cold war is long gone. The neoliberal agenda in the US proved economic failure. Ecuador and several countries in Latin America are understanding now that if they want to help middle and lower class people fight against corporate exaggeration they better unite against the establishment and board room parties.

Dion, is talking about social justice now, but we all know from the past liberal governments he won't be on the working class’ side. He will keep supporting right wing economic ideas, he will continue to give away our natural resources through disadvantageous trade agreements like the FTAA or WTO as they did with Chretien earlier.

  

The end of neoliberalism?

remind remind's picture

So much for pro-labour dialogue

___________________________________________________________
"watching the tide roll away"

WillC

lt is certainly ill advised to believe our society is static, and  to be making grand predictions about the way capitalism will always be triumphant.

 No one looking at the stock market now really knows what is going on.  No one can predict what the obvously coming economic insecurities will bring us.

 Sure the corporate media can beat the drums for capitalism as they are now, keeping the  NDP slightly  below the Liberals and Tories in voter support. Yet they can't control reality. YOu can only fool most of the people when they have a job. Who knows how long that will last these days?

Cueball Cueball's picture

Benoit wrote:
In Ottawa, you find an opposition to this financial capital in the Bloc Quebecois. The Bloc is carried by Quebecers believing their cultural and natural capital guarantee their independence.

 It's true. In Quebec, one does have the option of forwarding the agenda of "not-voting" in Canadian elections. The none-of-the-above slate brings in concrete rewards in terms of special treatment by ROC, and Quebecers have been able to convert this into real achievements in the realm of social policy.

 The rest of Canada should also choose, none-of-the-above.

Fidel

Stephane Dion's Liberals absained from voting, and in doing so supported the Harpers in 42 non-confidence votes,  and look where we are now.

Canada has de facto conservative majority in Ottawa. Meanwhile the NDP is the most consistent opposition party to the corporate U.S.A.-friendly Tory-Liberal agenda.

brookmere

And I doubt many citizens of our largest province could recall the name of our 22 percent premier whose party won 66 percent of legislature seats and 100 percent of power in 2007.

How about the premier who got a majority with a similar popular vote in 1990, or the BC premier who got a majority with a similar popular vote in 1995 (less than the Liberals by the way)?

Funny it's only a bad thing when the other guys win like that.

If only a bit over half of the electorate turns out to vote, do you think that makes the MPP's elected by the governing party less legitimate than the others? What kind of logic is that? The ridings that elected NDP MPP's had a low turnout too. Do you think they should leave half the seats in Queens Park empty or something?

Bookish Agrarian

brookmere wrote:

 Do you think they should leave half the seats in Queens Park empty or something?

That might prove to be the best thing ever.

genstrike

Benoit wrote:
By stillborn I mean the capitalists’ opponent was never alive. Curiously, I think there is a parallelism to explore between, on one side, communism and being born dead and between, on the other side, "Fidel Castro" meaning fidelity to one’s castration.

Actually, the global working class has a long history of fighting capitalism.  I could probably throw out an alphabet soup of popular anticapitalist organizations and historical events.  Admittedly there has been a bit of a downturn in recent decades, but I don't know how you can ignore so much working class history.

genstrike

Also, I should add that not all leftists are supporters of Fidel Castro, and among those who are, a lot of them are very critical.

Chester Drawers

NDP in a word.  Aimless, like a ship with too many captains.  You can not be all things to all people.

 

Example:  In the election the NDP are against corporate welfare and in the next breath calls for federal dollars to the manufacturing sector. 

Iether you are on one side of the fence or the other.  The Libranos tried to walk the fence and look what happened to them.

There needs to be more polarization of the political agendas, as in moving to a more defined left and right.

 

JMOFWIW

Fidel

genstrike wrote:

Also, I should add that not all leftists are supporters of Fidel Castro, and among those who are, a lot of them are very critical.

So when did you undertake this world wide survey? Most UN countries have demanded that the vicious empire drop the repressive trade sanctions against Cuba amounting to medieval siege. And not all of those countries' leaders are socialist either - just fair minded about democracy and trade and human rights in general.

Fidel

Chester Drawers wrote:
Example:  In the election the NDP are against corporate welfare and in the next breath calls for federal dollars to the manufacturing sector. 

Iether you are on one side of the fence or the other.  The Libranos tried to walk the fence and look what happened to them.

The NDP is calling for specific tax incentives to reward certain kinds of investment from big business, like directing money to green products and services, and investing in new and advanced equipment upgrades in manufacturing and processing plants.

 What our two old line parties have done for years and years is drop overall business tax rates for no apparent reasons and without any strings attached. No-strings attached corporate welfare is bad for the environment and bad for Canadians all around. Exxon-Imperial and GM will accept those corporate welfare cheques in the mail and continue siphoning off the oil and gas, and continue offshoring auto sector jobs, and especially if Canadian taxpayers reward them with unconditional gifts of money and cheap fossil fuels and other energy.

Jacob Two-Two

"Human beings in general and Canadians even more so are rightly seeing themselves much more as capitalists than as workers."

Nobody who understands what the words "capitalist" and "worker" mean could possibly say this, so I assume you aren't in that category. Let me help. "workers" are people who do work. "capitalists" are people who own the surplus value of the work done by others. The lines have blurred slightly in the past hundred years, precisely because of the various reforms won by the blood, sweat, and tears of those same opponents of capitalism that you bizarrely imagine don't exist. However, the distinction is still clear enough.

 If the majority of your income comes from your own labour, then you are a worker. If the majority comes from the work of others (so-called "investments"), then you are a capitalist. These two groups are in direct opposition as naturally as a hunter and its prey. When I take a log of wood and make it into a chair, I create value. I create wealth, but only so much wealth. My one action of making the chair is not infinite in its wealth-generating capacity. So the more a capitalist takes of that value, the less there is for me, the guy who actually made the chair. There is no win-win solution to this. I want as much of the value I created as I can get, and so does the capitalist parasite who owns my product. We will always be in conflict as long as these two groups exist and are competing for the wealth work creates.

Oddly enough, you are inadvertantly on the right track as to the real solution to this mess. We all need to be the same kind of economic creature so that this conflict can end. However, saying we are all capitalists is just ignorant. Obviously the vast majority of us are workers (make most of our money from our own labour) and always will be. It makes no sense to say we are all capitalists because capitalists exploit workers and without workers there couldn't be capitalists. The way of the future isn't no workers. That's nonsense for the hopelessly deluded. The way of the future is no capitalists. Once we are all workers and private corporations are replaced by collective worker-owned co-operatives and all surplus value comes back to the workers who created it, then we will see an end to this conflict.

Slumberjack

genstrike wrote:
Actually, the global working class has a long history of fighting capitalism....Admittedly there has been a bit of a downturn in recent decades, but I don't know how you can ignore so much working class history.

They're currently focused on survival of the fittest since the financial downturn arrived, and before that, from their comfortable perch on the upper rungs, they didn't see much of a need to look down and lend a hand to the struggling non-unionized workers below.  Together, the large unions have the clout and resources to take on the wealthy McJob corporations, and bring their workers out of servitude, yet they don't.  Apparently, it's too much of an inconvienience.  Which says a few things in itself as to why the NDP seems to be drifting away from the poor.

Benoit

genstrike wrote:

Benoit wrote:
By stillborn I mean the capitalists’ opponent was never alive. Curiously, I think there is a parallelism to explore between, on one side, communism and being born dead and between, on the other side, "Fidel Castro" meaning fidelity to one’s castration.

Actually, the global working class has a long history of fighting capitalism.  I could probably throw out an alphabet soup of popular anticapitalist organizations and historical events.  Admittedly there has been a bit of a downturn in recent decades, but I don't know how you can ignore so much working class history.

Work is only a painful distraction from politics. Work has been invented by the wealthy to keep the mass out of the real game. The real game is the politics of rent-seeking and rent-sharing. The little gains unions of workers have made were by mimicking capitalist rent-seeking monopolies. The gains made by unions are therefore gains made in a "zero-sum" game where the consumers are the losers. 

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent-seeking

 

Fidel

And Canada's two oldest political parties have acted as enablers of the rent-seeking neoliberal agenda for almost 30 years with: FTA, NAFTA, GATS, and 175 repressive pieces of labour legislation enacted since 1982.

genstrike

Fidel wrote:
genstrike wrote:

Also, I should add that not all leftists are supporters of Fidel Castro, and among those who are, a lot of them are very critical.

So when did you undertake this world wide survey? Most UN countries have demanded that the vicious empire drop the repressive trade sanctions against Cuba amounting to medieval siege. And not all of those countries' leaders are socialist either - just fair minded about democracy and trade and human rights in general.

I didn't take any survey.  First, I know some leftists personally who are not supportive of Castro.  Therefore not all leftists are supportive of Castro, especially in the anarchist community.  And I know a lot who give very critical support, supporting him against capitalism but criticizing him, particularly in Trotskyist circles.  If you want to find criticism of Castro from the left, it's out there.

Jacob Two-Two

"Work has been invented by the wealthy to keep the mass out of the real game."

 HAHAHAHA!! Every time I think you can't top yourself... Are you some kind of robot made by a comp. sci. grad student? Half the time you're not even comprehensible and the other half you're totally divorced from reality.

This is what work is: Work is the measure of a quantity that is capable of accomplishing
Macroscopic Motion of a System due to the action of a Force over a
Distance. When you move, manipulate, or interact with the universe around you, that's work. Nobody had to invent it. It's how creation operates. I don't know what definition you're using, but I figure it's something you made up yourself. Maybe you believe in the Work Fairy, stitched together in a lab by "the wealthy", whoever you might consider them to be, since you believe we're all capitalists (which reminds me, better go downstairs and check on my sweatshop labourers. I know how lazy they can be.). Do you ever make any sense?

 Perhaps what you mean is jobs were created by the wealthy, which is still wrong but closer to the truth. The problem is that it only proves what I'm saying. The modern conception of a "job" is an exploitable module of a capitalist machine. Redefining work (and jobs) in society as an unexploitative process by eliminating capitalists from the equation is the only way forward.

Fidel

genstrike wrote:
  And I know a lot who give very critical support, supporting him against capitalism but criticizing him, particularly in Trotskyist circles.  If you want to find criticism of Castro from the left, it's out there.

The anti-Castro rhetoric is Trotskyite mythos surrounding perfect revolutionaries standing opposed to revolution that has been hijacked and betrayed by unsavoury power mad monsters (Stalin being the Trotskyites’ whipping boy and who rarely ever mention the "civil" war or Hitler's grand plan for corporate-sponsored lebensraum of Asia and Europe, and eventually global fascism) In their view, all violent and bloody revolutions must be led by corrupted powermongering madmen – that is, all but those perfect revolutions which never seem to happen.

Trotskyites have always been useful to hawks in the US and Britain in that they are reliable allies set against the same revolutions and serving a role to chip away at support for the left in general.

the regina mom the regina mom's picture

Fidel wrote:
And Canada's two oldest political parties have acted as enablers of the rent-seeking neoliberal agenda for almost 30 years with: FTA, NAFTA, GATS, and 175 repressive pieces of labour legislation enacted since 1982.

 

As have the NDP, at least in SK, where the NDP government garnered front page headlines for its "historic transformation of economic policy." What did it transform?  Well, it got rid of Keynesian policies and policy wonks which effectively shut down the Women's Secretariat.  And who gave it the praise?  The one and only, Fraser Institute.

Fidel

the regina mom wrote:

As have the NDP, at least in SK, where the NDP government garnered front page headlines for its "historic transformation of economic policy." What did it transform?  Well, it got rid of Keynesian policies and policy wonks which effectively shut down the Women's Secretariat.  And who gave it the praise?  The one and only, Fraser Institute.

But the big ticket neoliberal items, FTA, scrapping FIRA, signing NAFTA, GATS, privatization of money supply to bailout our deregulated banks,  and our big five banks financing foreign takeovers of 30-some key sectors of Canadian economy - all that was down to Liberals and Tories in Ottawa where federal purse strings are. 

genstrike

Fidel wrote:

genstrike wrote:
  And I know a lot who give very critical support, supporting him against capitalism but criticizing him, particularly in Trotskyist circles.  If you want to find criticism of Castro from the left, it's out there.

The anti-Castro rhetoric is Trotskyite mythos surrounding perfect revolutionaries standing opposed to revolution that has been hijacked and betrayed by unsavoury power mad monsters (Stalin being the Trotskyites’ whipping boy and who rarely ever mention the "civil" war or Hitler's grand plan for corporate-sponsored lebensraum of Asia and Europe, and eventually global fascism) In their view, all violent and bloody revolutions must be led by corrupted powermongering madmen – that is, all but those perfect revolutions which never seem to happen.

Trotskyites have always been useful to hawks in the US and Britain in that they are reliable allies set against the same revolutions and serving a role to chip away at support for the left in general.

Whether you agree with the criticism or not, my point was that it is out there and not all leftists uncritically support Castro.  Some support his ideology only critically, and some do not support it at all.  I am not a Trotskyist and I disagree with some of the Trotskyists I know on a bunch of issues (well, mostly that after a couple beers I like to make jokes about ice axes, which has earned me the oxymoronic moniker "anarcho-stalinist").  But you have to admit, they exist.

And I think I'm talking to the only person who uncritically supports both Fidel Castro and Gary Doer. Wink

genstrike

Benoit wrote:
Work is only a painful distraction from politics. Work has been invented by the wealthy to keep the mass out of the real game. The real game is the politics of rent-seeking and rent-sharing. The little gains unions of workers have made were by mimicking capitalist rent-seeking monopolies. The gains made by unions are therefore gains made in a "zero-sum" game where the consumers are the losers. 

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent-seeking

Okay, first off, some work is necessary in order to make society function.  Even after the revolution, people will still have to work (although probably with much reduced hours) in order to provide for our needs, keep the water flowing, the food coming in, the sewage going out, and the healthcare system operating.  

The reason work under a capitalist environment was invented by wealthy capitalists was to enrich themselves by exploiting the labour of others.  That is all there is to it, and it is the basis of our system of exploitation.

And I find it funny that you mock the gains made by working people organizing into unions.  Like weekends?  Thank a union.  The problem is that these gains are getting constantly rolled back.

And consumers are the losers?  Give me a break.  Are you arguing for the elimination of the gains made by workers in order to benefit the consumers, when the consumers are workers themselves?

the regina mom the regina mom's picture

Oh, sure, those are federal issues, but right now both the SaskaTory government of Saskatchewan and the NDP government of Manitoba are working to make one piece of the SPP/NAFTA work smoothly, and that's the NAFTA SuperCorridor. A rep from the Manitoba government, the DM of Transportation, Andrew T. Horosko, P.Eng., is on the BOD.  And right here in Regina, the City is expanding in the southwest around the airport as part of the development of an inland multi-modal terminal.  And all the prep for that was happening under the watch of the SK NDP government.

 

I'm saying all this not because I've lost hope for the NDP, but because we tend to let them off the hook too damned easily.  I don't know why that is, but it's got to stop.  Toes to the fire and if they get burnt, it's their own damned fault!

 

Fidel

genstrike wrote:

Whether you agree with the criticism or not, my point was that it is out there and not all leftists uncritically support Castro.

And my rellies once grew green roses for market gardening. So what?

Quote:
And I'm talking to the only person who uncritically supports both Fidel Castro and Gary Doer. Wink

I think there are people who try to blur the line between uncritical support and those opposing points of view shared by right-wing ideologues. I find those "centrist" and "pragmatic" views tend to be influenced by the political right for the most part. 

genstrike

Fidel wrote:

And my rellies once grew green roses for market gardening. So what?

Hey, I'm not the one who is bashing Castro here.  Benoit is the one who started it, all I said was that not all leftists uncritically support Castro, which is true whether you and I support him or not.  There are plenty of leftists out there who either oppose him, or support him only critically.

Quote:
I think there are people who try to blur the line between uncritical support and those opposing points of view shared by right-wing ideologues. I find those "centrist" and "pragmatic" views tend to be influenced by the political right for the most part. 

You're right on one count.  Gary Doer's "centrist" and "pragmatic" views are heavily influenced by the political right.

But if you were referring to me, anyone who actually knows me personally would probably have a good laugh at the concept of someone considering me to be "centrist" and "pragmatic"

Fidel

 So from your point of view, Canada's rightwing federal Liberals of 1993 to 2006 get a free bus pass for robbing billions from social transfers, and signing us all up for neoliberal agendas like GATS, and even though they signed us all up for the dumbest free trade deal in the history of the world placing restrictions on public ownership and "unfair subsidies."  Because in spite of all that recent history, things could be peachy in Manitoba if it wasn't for Gary Doer's provincial NDP. Doer will be your whipping boy regardless of the facts.  No need for you to to attempt any more feeble explanations. We get it now.

Cueball Cueball's picture

Yup, that is what he said word for word. I had to drive over my glasses, and then fetch them from under the car and put them on again, in order to figure that out, though.

Fidel

The same magic bus makes stops in other threads as well. Apparently everything wrong in Canada can be traced to Gary Doer's Stalinist NDP, and now the docs Duvalier, Fidel, and even Batista. He can red bait all he wants, and I won't deny anything under torture of his banal notes.

Benoit

Fidel wrote:
And Canada's two oldest political parties have acted as enablers of the rent-seeking neoliberal agenda for almost 30 years with: FTA, NAFTA, GATS, and 175 repressive pieces of labour legislation enacted since 1982.

 

Seeking a regulation to protect a national industry from foreign competition is a classic case of rent-seeking.

 

Benoit

Jacob Two-Two wrote:

"Work has been invented by the wealthy to keep the mass out of the real game."

 HAHAHAHA!! Every time I think you can't top yourself... Are you some kind of robot made by a comp. sci. grad student? Half the time you're not even comprehensible and the other half you're totally divorced from reality.

This is what work is: Work is the measure of a quantity that is capable of accomplishing Macroscopic Motion of a System due to the action of a Force over a Distance. When you move, manipulate, or interact with the universe around you, that's work. Nobody had to invent it. It's how creation operates. I don't know what definition you're using, but I figure it's something you made up yourself. Maybe you believe in the Work Fairy, stitched together in a lab by "the wealthy", whoever you might consider them to be, since you believe we're all capitalists (which reminds me, better go downstairs and check on my sweatshop labourers. I know how lazy they can be.). Do you ever make any sense?

 Perhaps what you mean is jobs were created by the wealthy, which is still wrong but closer to the truth. The problem is that it only proves what I'm saying. The modern conception of a "job" is an exploitable module of a capitalist machine. Redefining work (and jobs) in society as an unexploitative process by eliminating capitalists from the equation is the only way forward.

If you find the definition of work in the expression "the measure of a quantity that is capable of accomplishing Macroscopic Motion of a System due to the action of a Force over a Distance" then you find the definition of capital in the expression "In all energy exchanges, if no energy enters or leaves the system, the potential energy of the state will always be less than that of the initial state." It would seem that no work is possible without capital. Anyway, physics as a hard science would do just as well without borrowing any English word.

 

Benoit

genstrike wrote:

Benoit wrote:
Work is only a painful distraction from politics. Work has been invented by the wealthy to keep the mass out of the real game. The real game is the politics of rent-seeking and rent-sharing. The little gains unions of workers have made were by mimicking capitalist rent-seeking monopolies. The gains made by unions are therefore gains made in a "zero-sum" game where the consumers are the losers. 

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent-seeking

Okay, first off, some work is necessary in order to make society function.  Even after the revolution, people will still have to work (although probably with much reduced hours) in order to provide for our needs, keep the water flowing, the food coming in, the sewage going out, and the healthcare system operating.  

The reason work under a capitalist environment was invented by wealthy capitalists was to enrich themselves by exploiting the labour of others.  That is all there is to it, and it is the basis of our system of exploitation.

And I find it funny that you mock the gains made by working people organizing into unions.  Like weekends?  Thank a union.  The problem is that these gains are getting constantly rolled back.

And consumers are the losers?  Give me a break.  Are you arguing for the elimination of the gains made by workers in order to benefit the consumers, when the consumers are workers themselves?

- The work that would still be necessary in a sane society is so little that it's pathetic to speak about it. I don't tell everyone when I clean and maintain my body.

- Consumers include everyone, children and adults, non-worker and workers. A revolution has to benefit everyone without forcing everyone to become workers.

 

 

genstrike

Benoit wrote:

- The work that would still be necessary in a sane society is so little that it's pathetic to speak about it. I don't tell everyone when I clean and maintain my body.

 

There is actually a lot of work by other people that goes into just cleaning and maintaining your body.

Lets start with cleaning your body.  So, you step into the tub which was made by workers, and turn on the showerhead which was made by workers.   You reach for the soap, which was made by workers.  The plumbing in your house was installed by a worker.  The city's water system was made by public sector workers.  And workers are working at the water treatment plant making sure that water is clean.  And don't forget the wastewater treatment plant either, to get rid of the used water.

And what if you are out of shampoo?  You have to get in your car or on your bike, which was made by workers, get on the road which was made by workers, go to the store built by workers, grab the soap which was stocked by workers, go to the checkout... you get my drift.

I do agree that we would see vastly reduced hours (I hope a 4 hour day and 4 day week isn't too optimistic),
but unless you are a primitivist, it is difficult to argue that that
work is going to be so little it is pathetic to speak about.  And even
if the work is a very small amount, it still needs to get done, and it
will still be an important part of our lives.

 

Benoit wrote:

- Consumers include everyone, children and adults,
non-worker and workers. A revolution has to benefit everyone without
forcing everyone to become workers.

I agree.  And a revolution which eliminates the exploitation of the working class will benefit everyone (well, except for the bourgeoisie, whose gravy train will come to a sudden halt).  Furthermore, nearly everyone is a worker at some point in their life, generally for at least 35 years, so a revolution would benefit nearly everyone.

Benoit

Since Hesiod's WORKS AND DAYS, the Western world has tried to solve political disputes by putting the masses to schools and workplaces. Humanity now sees the result of this solution: for having fear to share the natural resources directly, we have spoiled and polluted nature. The polytheist Hesiod was always using the plural form of work(s); John Calvin has imposed the singular form. Regrouping the various human activities necessary to maintain our metabolism allows Protestantism/capitalism to exploit human energy systematically. The plural form of work(s) only means the tasks necessary to stay alive in this world; the singular form means what a Protestant needs to do to soothe his/her anxiety about his/her individual Salvation in the Afterlife.

 

Not only are schools and workplaces outdated modern institutions, they were stillborn institutions right at the beginning of modernity. Right from their inceptions, schooling and work were entirely dominated by capital. Surplus work is thus the only concept that is sound. Work that is entirely captured by capital is surplus work. Surplus work is excessive work but it is also much worst than that, it is work turned against workers. Work turned against workers is simply a kind of expropriation. Actually, work turned against workers is the automation of production techniques. For a few capitalists to appropriate all incomes generated by automated production, what is sadly needed is to trap all other people in a position where they have to kill each other to enter a constantly shrinking labour market.

Fidel

Benoit wrote:

Fidel wrote:
And Canada's two oldest political parties have acted as enablers of the rent-seeking neoliberal agenda for almost 30 years with: FTA, NAFTA, GATS, and 175 repressive pieces of labour legislation enacted since 1982.

Seeking a regulation to protect a national industry from foreign competition is a classic case of rent-seeking.

We know. The Americans violate trade agreements all the time, especially when they tell us to shove our softwood lumber where the sun doesnt shine.

And what of these bank nationalisations and bailouts in the US and around the world? What about unfair subsidies affecting trade? We might as well abrrogate NAFTA now for all its worth. Six months later Canada and Canadian companies could be free to trade with the rest of the world as per truly free market rules.

And since FIRA was scrapped, over 30 key sectors of Canada's economy are now foreign-owned and controlled, and mostly by Americans. Mel Hurtig estimates that Canada's banksters financed perhaps two-thirds of the nearly 12, 000 foreign takeovers of Canadian industries and valuable crown assets since 1985, and using Canadians' savings in the process. 

And Canada does have a national energy policy, except that it's being dictated to us from corporate America, that most wasteful and most oil-dependent economy in the world. 

And no other rich country has allowed a third as much foreign ownership in manufacturing as Canada has - a point of neoliberal ideology being driven home to Canadians as we continue to bleed good paying jobs, and estimates of several hundred thousand more full-time jobs will be lost in the next few years to look forward to. What's afta the Liberals' NAFTA? SPP? TILMA? Deep disintegration with that basket case of an economy south of us? God help us.

remind remind's picture

Quote:
There is actually a lot of work by other people that goes into just cleaning and maintaining your body.
Good breakdown to illuminate just what "workers' do.

An excercise that I have used to get people to think beyond their nose, was to put a kleenix box in front of them, and then get them to list how many workers hands it went through in order for us to be able to pull a tissue from the box. It usually amazes people to realize just how many workers it takes so that we can blow our noses on one little tissue.

 

 

___________________________________________________________
"watching the tide roll away"

Benoit

error  

Benoit

Fidel wrote:
The Americans violate trade agreements all the time, especially when they tell us to shove our softwood lumber where the sun doesnt shine.

And what of these bank nationalisations and bailouts in the US and around the world? What about unfair subsidies affecting trade? We might as well abrrogate NAFTA now for all its worth. Six months later Canada and Canadian companies could be free to trade with the rest of the world as per truly free market rules.

And since FIRA was scrapped, over 30 key sectors of Canada's economy are now foreign-owned and controlled, and mostly by Americans. Mel Hurtig estimates that Canada's banksters financed perhaps two-thirds of the nearly 12, 000 foreign takeovers of Canadian industries and valuable crown assets since 1985, and using Canadians' savings in the process. 

And Canada does have a national energy policy, except that it's being dictated to us from corporate America, that most wasteful and most oil-dependent economy in the world. 

And no other rich country has allowed a third as much foreign ownership in manufacturing as Canada has - a point of neoliberal ideology being driven home to Canadians as we continue to bleed good paying jobs, and estimates of several hundred thousand more full-time jobs will be lost in the next few years to look forward to. What's afta the Liberals' NAFTA? SPP? TILMA? Deep disintegration with that basket case of an economy south of us? God help us.

 

If you wait for Americans to become angels before exchanging with them you will wait forever. Americans have the power to "export their unemployment" in Canada and hurt Canada much more than what they are doing now. Canada and the US have to continue the negotiations for rules of trade and investment that can be deemed acceptable by all countries in the World.     

 

Benoit

remind wrote:

Quote:
There is actually a lot of work by other people that goes into just cleaning and maintaining your body.
Good breakdown to illuminate just what "workers' do.

An excercise that I have used to get people to think beyond their nose, was to put a kleenix box in front of them, and then get them to list how many workers hands it went through in order for us to be able to pull a tissue from the box. It usually amazes people to realize just how many workers it takes so that we can blow our noses on one little tissue.

Because humans are inventors much more than workers, we have to say that there are a lot of alternative methods to produce and distribute paper tissues and, more importantly, there are a lot of alternative ways to clean one’s nose than paper tissues.

Fidel

Benoit wrote:
If you wait for Americans to become angels before exchanging with them you will wait forever. Americans have the power to "export their unemployment" in Canada and hurt Canada much more than what they are doing now. 

Baloney! Their's is the most oil dependent economy in the world. We've got them over a barrel.  Even Harper said so, and he's a corporate stooge,  another colonial administrator in Ottawa. Canada has every raw material energy source to be a self-sufficient economy. China and Germany would love to have Canada's unparalleled natural resource wealth. Political Conservatives talk big, but when the chips are down, they're in uncle Sam's back pocket with a mouthful of lint just like the other wing of the business and big banking party. 

 

remind remind's picture

Benoit wrote:
Because humans are inventors much more than workers, we have to say that there are a lot of alternative methods to produce and distribute paper tissues and, more importantly, there are a lot of alternative ways to clean one’s nose than paper tissues.

Hate to break it to you benoit, but everyone is a worker whether they are an inventor or other. Unless of course one has inherited wealth and has done nothing but be waited upon.

Ya, we could use a hankerchief, but of course then we would just transfer all those workers hands to the production, creation, manufacturing, and dispersing of them too. There really is no other alternative way to clean ones nose, as frankly leaves and bark make my nose break out into sores.

___________________________________________________________
"watching the tide roll away"

Benoit

Fidel wrote:

Benoit wrote:
If you wait for Americans to become angels before exchanging with them you will wait forever. Americans have the power to "export their unemployment" in Canada and hurt Canada much more than what they are doing now. 

Baloney! Their's is the most oil dependent economy in the world. We've got them over a barrel. 

 

Iraq and Iran were saying that too.

remind remind's picture

Iran?

___________________________________________________________
"watching the tide roll away"

Benoit

remind wrote:

 

Hate to break it to you benoit, but everyone is a worker whether they are an inventor or other. Unless of course one has inherited wealth and has done nothing but be waited upon.

Ya, we could use a hankerchief, but of course then we would just transfer all those workers hands to the production, creation, manufacturing, and dispersing of them too. There really is no other alternative way to clean ones nose, as frankly leaves and bark make my nose break out into sores.

 

Humans have all inherited the natural wealth of the WHOLE Earth. What is making your nose hurting is the cold weather you find in on only PART of the Earth.

remind remind's picture

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, you are just too funny and inconsequential benoit, entertainment value is high, though at first I made the mistake of thinking you were actually serious.

___________________________________________________________
"watching the tide roll away"

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