Oppose Canadian military mission in Ukraine!

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thorin_bane

Should be having an anti war rally along with the C-51 rally today

6079_Smith_W

contrarianna wrote:

The recurrent Nazi apologetics and obfuscation from smith.

"Funny" indeed, despite smiths smarmy innuendo here, I've never mentioned Kolomoyski before; yet, even according to the pro-Azov Kjev Post, the oligarch Kolomoyski was a major funder of the Azov, Dnipro and Donbas battalians. (Though the Interior minister downplay's his ousted rival's role in favour of Ministry support for the integrated Nazi storm troups). 

Did I say you made that claim? Are you and I the only people talking about this? I have had a number of conversations with NDPP about the false claim that Kolomoyski started and runs Azov (and just about everything else). And yes, it is kind of funny that the moment he is no longer in power they stop.

Seems to me I said you got it right on that point. how that is an innuendo against it I don't know. As for what others have said, no innuendo at all. I said quite clearly that is one of the many things that they have gotten consistently wrong.

Though then as now, I'd say that machine runs less on any sense of journalistic accuracy than on finding targets.

 

 

Malcontent

thorin_bane wrote:

Also Trudeau in lockstep as usual. This is why the libs are further sinking in the polls

 

Yup and it is sad both Harper and Trudeau support the Nazi regime in Ukraine.

6079_Smith_W

Malcontent wrote:

Yup and it is sad both Harper and Trudeau support the Nazi regime in Ukraine.

The really sad thing is how that term gets ignorantly tossed around as if it means nothing at all. That is the sort of fearmongering, scapegoating and disregard for reality that I expect from someone like Mr. Harper. 

 

 

iyraste1313

"demand that Canada cease all interference in Ukraine? How should we proceed?"

...Thanks for this thread and your indignation!

This deserves some serious response, what with all the political institutions of Canada, the media, and of course our war industry, our energy industry, our financial industry, cheering on this latest imperialist venture (o of course the NDP may hedge, demanding we do our dirty work under the banner of NATO!)

sorry but protests and threats of party politic strategizing doesn't cut it!

Let's face reality here in Canada. The system of authority in this country is all behind such fascist ventures...It calls for fundamentally different plan of action...and I think the Ghandian movement during the imperialism of British imperialism has much to offer!

1. Non Cooperation! We as individuals, families and friends must disengage from this system, gradually, as we promote such disengagement.

2. Building an anti imperialist anti neoliberal movement, i.e. finding our friends and fellow activists to collectively disengage, while we build alternative and parallel movement...starting from the land, the formation of land cooperatives, distribution cooperatives, technical and service to a land based movement to develop our alternatives to corporate food, energy and government!

3. Building a national political movement to enunciate duch disengagement and parallel alternative transformation...offering a coherent voice to the electorate, to likewise disengage...

sorry but the system is not open to change course unless facing threat from a radical transformative anticapitalist movement...this is our work!

Paladin1

Unionist wrote:

We need to bring our voices together urgently - political parties, civil society, social movements - and demand that Canada cease all interference in Ukraine.

It doesn't matter who you or I think are the good guys or bad guys. It doesn't matter whether some government "invites" us in or not. As with Iraq and Syria, Canada must be told: "Hands off Ukraine!"

 

 

Why shouldn't Canada send troops to Ukraine to help train their forces?  Serious question.

 

josh wrote:

An Ottawa Citizen analysis shows that Canadians identifying themselves as being of Ukrainian represent a potentially game-changing voting bloc in dozens of federal ridings. The fact ridings with large Ukrainian-Canadian populations in Toronto, Winnipeg and parts of Saskatchewan were hotly contested in 2011 speaks to the importance of each party being active on Ukraine.

http://www.canada.com/Ukrainians+Canada+could+game+changers+federal+election/9578956/story.html

Of course, why would we expect anything different?  Canada has a large voter base sympathetic with Ukraine, or who identify themselves as Ukraine-Canadians.  Of course whatever government party in power is going to try and win their votes like this.  just like when we sent soldiers to haiti to help out.Hatian Canadians.

NDPP

"...The former Ukrainian Prime Minister appealed to the leaders of Western countries,

'because of your support in Ukraine there are political murders, terror taking place against political opponents, and all the people. What else should these Nazis do, for you to finally understand and be aware of your responsibility for what is happening now in Ukraine?'

http://sptnkne.ws/dRQ

 

"The narrative supported by the Western media - that the 'revolution' which overthrew the democratically elected government of Viktor Yanukovych was a blow struck against authoritarianism and for "European values' - is no longer credible. US [and Canadian] taxpayers have shelled out billions to a regime that is one of the most corrupt - and, now one of the most repressive - regimes in the world."

http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2015/04/16/the-murderers-of-kiev/

NDPP

Canada Sending Troops to Ukraine on Two-Year Training Mission

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/04/18/cana-a18.html

"...The parliamentary opposition parties, the New Democratic Party (NDP) and Liberals, are fully committed to the defence of the interests of Canadian imperialism. Mulcair's minor quibbles with the government over the way in which the mission was announced should fool no one."

 

Canadian Mission to Train Ukrainians Leaves Big Question  -  by Scott Taylor

http://thechronicleherald.ca/opinion/1281545-on-target-canadian-mission-...

"...For the record, the current Ukrainian government ranks 142nd out of 175 countries on the Transparency International Corruption Perceptions Index, tied with Uganda and the Comoros.

Is that really something you want to die defending?"

NDPP

Stephen Harper Loves the Smell of Napalm in the Morning

http://www.ipolitics.ca/2015/04/19/stephen-harper-loves-the-smell-of-nap...

"It is beginning to look like Field Marshall Harper has slipped a gear. Going after the Ukrainian vote in Canada is one thing. But sending troops, evan as trainers, into Ukraine's 'fratricidal' civil war and confronting Russia is quite another.

The Russians have characterized Canada's move as 'deplorable'. It could also be described as ridiculous if it wasn't for the fact that a former Canadian diplomat, James Bisset, has warned that our troops may be training neo-nazi militia units that are being integrated into Ukraine's regular military forces.

Onward Christian Soldiers."

Harper isn't the only one. Canadian 'progressives' appear to have bought into this ridiculous fiasco fiasco as well. Peggy Nash for Right Sector!

 

 

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

La Presse: "Get Out of Ukraine, Mr Harper!"

Sputnik wrote:
In a piece published Sunday in Canada's La Presse, renowned journalist Lysiane Gagnon argued that Canada has no business in sending troops to assist Kiev's military machine ...

Gagnon notes that now it is Canadians' turn to stand up and tell the prime minister: "Get out of Ukraine, Mr. Harper!"


 

 

NDPP

 another longer version of the piece: Definitely worth a read...

 

The Ukraine Obsession of the Canadian Government

http://newcoldwar.org/the-ukraine-obsession-of-the-canadian-government/

"...But the Ukrainian obsession of Stephen Harper is a dangerous game. One is drawn to say, 'Get out of Ukraine Mr Harper'!"

Here's hoping more will say just that...

Slumberjack

Quote:
...The parliamentary opposition parties, the New Democratic Party (NDP) and Liberals, are fully committed to the defence of the interests of Canadian imperialism. Mulcair's minor quibbles with the government over the way in which the mission was announced should fool no one."

It doesn't by and large.  If the opposition does manage to fool people from within, then they must be complete simpletons who should otherwise have our sympathy for being taken in by the obvious ruses, everytime, like proverbial suckers.  They know not what they do.  No, it seems to be more about wilful and calculating opportunists who don't seem to mind where they're headed or how they're getting there.

NDPP

'Canadian Troops in Ukraine Could Help Train Far-Right Extremists' (and podcast)

http://rt.com/op-edge/251473-canada-ukraine-training-extremists/

"It is impossible for Canadian military personnel in Ukraine to weed out far-right militants when training, as some of the groups have been absorbed into the military, James Bissett, former Canadian ambassador to Yugoslavia, Albania and Bulgaria told RT.

'In addition to that we have given Ukraine up to now $500 million and that money is not accountable. So we have no idea how it will be spent..'

 

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Russia Insider has a translation of the article in LaPresse by NewColdWar.org over here ...

Time for Canada to End Its Ukraine Obsession

A rare critical commentary in Canadian mainstream press against Ottawa’s involvement in Ukraine conflict.

Quote:
Note by New Cold War.org editor: La Presse is the largest circulation French-language newspaper in Quebec and in North America. The above commentary by Lysiane Gagnon is a rare, perhaps the first, critical commentary about the Canadian intervention in Ukraine to appear in the mainstream or left wing press in the province of Quebec. In the Parliament in Ottawa and the National Assembly in Quebec, not a single elected member has criticized or opposed the intervention.

Stephen Cohen has written about this phenomena in the USA. "Even at the height of the Cold War," said Cohen, "there was always a variety of points of view. Today this isn't true. Dissent is silenced. " (I'm paraphrasing here.)

NDPP

More Than Half of Canadians Don't Support Ukraine Military Mission

https://www.hilltimes.com/news/news/2015/04/20/almost-half-of-canadians-...

 My goodness what a perfect political issue to take Harpo out with...Support for a corrupt US coup installed regime, hundreds of millions of Canadian tax dollars in no-oversight loans to a oligarchial regime led by a crooked billionaire. Death squads...Troop training of neo-Nazis. Too bad the 'loyal' opposition isn't up to it.

6079_Smith_W

The surprising thing about that poll is that all the numbers are down the middle, including the fact that only 50 percent of Quebec residents oppose it - not all that different than the 40 percent in the rest of the country. Not exactly the wide split they spin it as. The only number that really jumps out is the 74 percent of Harperites who support it.

Unionist

NDPP wrote:

 My goodness what a perfect political issue to take Harpo out with...Support for a corrupt US coup installed regime, hundreds of millions of Canadian tax dollars in no-oversight loans to a oligarchial regime led by a crooked billionaire. Death squads...Troop training of neo-Nazis. Too bad the 'loyal' opposition isn't up to it.

What you said.

 

josh

ikosmos wrote:

Russia Insider has a translation of the article in LaPresse by NewColdWar.org over here ...

Time for Canada to End Its Ukraine Obsession

A rare critical commentary in Canadian mainstream press against Ottawa’s involvement in Ukraine conflict.

Quote:
Note by New Cold War.org editor: La Presse is the largest circulation French-language newspaper in Quebec and in North America. The above commentary by Lysiane Gagnon is a rare, perhaps the first, critical commentary about the Canadian intervention in Ukraine to appear in the mainstream or left wing press in the province of Quebec. In the Parliament in Ottawa and the National Assembly in Quebec, not a single elected member has criticized or opposed the intervention.

Stephen Cohen has written about this phenomena in the USA. "Even at the height of the Cold War," said Cohen, "there was always a variety of points of view. Today this isn't true. Dissent is silenced. " (I'm paraphrasing here.)

 

There was?  If there truly were, it's unlikely that Vietnam would have happened.  Instead, the best minds in the state department's far east department were either purged or silenced by McCarthyism.  There was also little dissent in the political or media to such nuggets as the domino theory.

Unionist

josh wrote:
If there truly were [lots of dissenting viewpoints at the height of the Cold War], it's unlikely that Vietnam would have happened.  Instead, the best minds in the state department's far east department were either purged or silenced by McCarthyism.  There was also little dissent in the political or media to such nuggets as the domino theory.

Absolutely correct. I remember those days vividly. The mainstream academic and popular media were in lock-step. The dissent all came from below - and you had to look to radical publications to see it echoed in print. I actually see more "points of view" today - though there are none unfortunately among the political parties. Which makes it all the more urgent that a mass response to warmongering be organized.

NDPP

The Minsk 2 treaty came about under the duress of a Russian ultimatum to Europe and a Ukrainian regime losing another offensive and desperately needing to buy some time to beef up their military, and ready themselves for another push east.  NATO can then 'reach' Russian missile systems behind the Urals. Ottawa, like Washington, although formally paying occasional lip service to Minsk2, knows that the plan is really to ready Kiev to brutally crush all resistance in Donbass once and for all.

This is now being prepared with the training initiatives/troop deployments by Canada, UK and USA, in blatant contravention of Minsk2, revealing the dirty double-game beneath. A delicate ceasefire is being allowed to collapse. This is such a tragedy playing  out before our eyes. Some of our eyes. Those that haven't been sucked up by the warparty cheerled by our untrusty mainstream media.

Where the hell is the peace movement?

If the Canadian mythology that never was, played out, we would see Canada play a principled role as peacemaker, the sides would begin working out a federalist scheme for coexistence, and the looming hotwar and possible superpower nuclear clash could cool down. The opposition could and should  be hammering Harper right out of office over this.

Instead we are presented with the awful spectacle of Peggy Nash and Chrystia Freeland arm in arm with Right Sector and the crazed UCC ultranationalist lobby calling for all their banderite nationalist prophecies to be fulfilled. Or else.

Instead, as with Libya, Canada collaborates in yet another mad neocon scheme  and we all just stand around doing nothing waiting for all hell to break lose. "Three minutes to midnight" as Chomsky so succintly puts it.

Minsk2 is the principled solution and all that's left. Its compliance by all parties should be actively and massively demanded by all right thinking Canadians. Let alone left-thinking ones.

Yes to peace. No to war. Troops out now!

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Josh and Unionist ... I was quoting or paraphrasing Stephen Cohen. He was talking about the "corridors of power" in the USA and how, in his view, there was always a diversity of views in regard to foreign policy. This diversity, he says, is now lacking. He should know. He's been there the whole time.

Remember we are talking about relations with Russia. What Cohen is saying is that there was a diversity of views in regard to relations with Russia. This has changed, in his view.

Other than John Mearsheimer, I really can't think of anyone in US political circles who has more credibility that Stephen Cohen on relations with Russia. Yes, there are plenty of neo-cons and R2P "liberals" (i.e., humanitarian bombing) but in relation to Russia these two are virtually two peas in a pod. And there are no dissenting views in MSM and the corridors of power. That's what is different.

This is different from the silencing and marginalizing of the left, which is permanent and unending.

 

iyraste1313

"Where the hell is the peace movement?"

I attended the Peace Assembly at the Canada Social Forum in Ottawa, railroaded by one of the movement leaders?

Not a whisper of fair process, in an arena embarrassingly vacant, while more topical issues of foreign events were crowded!

Where's C51 at presently? What with Canada directly engaged in this foreign instigated war, this makes opposition clearly vulnerable to charges of T. by way of interference in the (sic) diplomatic missions of Canada...

Yes a Peace movement must be focussed on this issue, but with the backing of a national and holistic movement, probably an internationalsit defence strategy...all things which now must be constructed...

Thanks for the question...we must now be coming together for the answers!

NDPP

I agree.

 

Weaponizing Information  - by Joyce Nelson

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/04/23/weaponizing-information/

"On April 14, the Canadian government announced that Canada will send 200 soldiers to Kiev, contributing to a military build up on Russia's doorstep while a fragile truce is in place in eastern Ukraine.

The Russian Embassy in Ottawa called the decision 'counterproductive and deplorable', stating that the foreign ministers of France, Germany, Russia and Ukraine have 'called for intra-Ukrainian political dialogue,' as agreed upon in the Minsk 2 accords in February and that it would be 'much more reasonable to concentrate on diplomacy.'

That viewpoint is shared by many, especially in Europe where few are eager for a 'hot' war in the region. Nor are most people enamoured of the fact that more billions are being spent on a new arms-race, while 'austerity' is preached by the 1 Per Cent.

But in the Anglo-American corridors of power *(also called the Atlantic Alliance) such views are seen to be the result of diabolical propaganda spread through the Internet by Russia's 'secret army'..."

*and even other realms closer by

thorin_bane

No worries our spoke person Ian Dipstick, says we HAVE to support the Ukraine mission. Sometime I understand why cons dislike him so much. On this topic, I myslef want to hit him in the face for his narrow vision.

NDPP

If Canada's Mickey-Mouse opposition MPs weren't as deeply collaborationist as they are, we might have strong intelligent positions similar to this one by German opposition MP Sahra Wagenknecht:

Against A New Cold War, For a Rendevous With Reality - Speech to Bundestag, 19 March 2015

http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/2015/wagenknecht240415.html

"...The head of the influential think tank Stratfor, with striking bluntness, recently explained the precise US interests in Europe: The chief interest of the United States is to prevent an alliance between Germany and Russia, since - to quote - 'united they are the only force that can threaten us,' i.e. threaten the US.

The perceived threat to US interests has been successfully neutralized for the foreseeable future. That process started when the EU sought to pry countries out of their economic and political cooperation with Russia in the framework of the Eastern Partnership.

Mrs Merkel, naturally this was aimed at Russia, but it was also contrary to the interests of the countries involved. You, not Russia, pushed them to the either-or. As a result, Ukraine has lost much of its industry. Today the country is bankrupt, where people go hungry, shiver from cold, and have wages lower than in Ghana..."

NDPP

My Journey To the War Zone of Eastern Ukraine  -  by Halyna Mokrushyna

http://newcoldwar.org/my-journey-to-the-war-zone-of-eastern-ukraine/

"...They took us to several of the western outskirts of Donetsk near the demarcation line that are damaged by bombings of the Ukrainian army. I was looking at the empty windows of a school, blasted out by shelling, probably last summer when the fighting was at its height.

In the school yard yesterday, my travel colleagues were picking up splinters of shells. I felt a deep sorrow. I thought to myself: here I am standing at the graveyeard of Ukraine as I have known it.

There is no going back. Donbas does not want to be a part of Ukraine which celebrates the Ukrainian nationalists who collaborated with Nazi Germany during WWII, and against whom the Soviet Army fought. Donbass opposes the neo-liberal capitalism which is destroying Ukrainian industry and agriculture.

Donbas would return to a federalized Ukraine, but only if the Kyiv government could undergo what Donbas people call 'de-nazification'. Sadly, this is very unlikely to happen. A civilized divorce is the best solution for this armed conflict.

CANADA is providing military support for Kyiv. Canada should instead remember its expertise as a peacekeeper and negotiator and put pressure on Kyiv to fulfill the obligations which it undertook when it signed the ceasefire agreement in Minsk on February 12, 2015, along with the representatives of Lugansk and Donetsk."

NDPP

Canada Announces Another $14 Million in Aid to Ukraine

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/canada-announces-another-14m-in-aid-to-uk...

"Foreign Affairs Minister Rob Nicholson said Canada stands with Ukraine in the face of Russia's 'aggressive militarism and expansionism' as he announced another $14 million in aid to the former Soviet state..."

 

Chretien and Putin Meet in Russia, in Face of Harper Isolation

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/chretien-and-putin-meet-in-russia-in-face...

"...I haven't been briefed on what happened. I'm not sure if Mr Chretien has chosen to brief our mission in Moscow. We would be curious to know what was discussed,' Kenny said during a symposium in Ottawa on Canada's security relations with the European Union.

A spokesman for Chretien did not respond to a request for comment. Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov was quoted as saying the two 'discussed the painful points of the current international situation.'

Things have sunk very low when one feels some small optimism at Putin's meeting with an out of office prime minister he is apparently fond of. The Bandera-Breedlove Russophobia in aid of NATO expansion, has brought us to the brink. If some remedial diplomacy by Chretien conveys Canada isn't completely infected with ill informed, anti-Russian paranoia, so much the better. As for giving more than $600 million to the kleptocratic US puppet oligarchy in Kiev, I know the crazed ultranationalists of the Ukrainian lobby are pleased, but what about the rest of Canada?

Paladin1

Were we 76 years ago I can totally see posts on this forum about Canada not supporting the illegal and unjust war against Germany.

 

 

 

Unionist wrote:

 

Meanwhile, can we ensure that Canadians don't get sucked in by another "save the innocent civilians and women and girls" mission of imperial aggression and murder?

Thanks.

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/iraq-kurdish-official-says-isis-releases-200...

I agree. These women weren't murdered I'm not sure what they are complaining about.

 

 

But back on topic, why shouldn't Canada be involved in what's going on in the Ukrane? Like personal point of view not a news article cut and paste.

NDPP

So, as you know Canada has decided to send 200 CF troops styled as 'trainers' to Ukraine, allegedly to prepare the Ukrainian Armed Forces to defend the US-backed regime of fascists and oligarchs, against 'Russian aggression'. Or so says the national media.

On April 29, 2015 a four hour 'take note debate' was held in Parliament to review this decision. Representatives of all parties and cabinet participated. Hansard of proceedings is not an encouraging read. Canadians deserve better.

But how appropriate that this discussion of the ongoing situation in Ukraine should be called a 'take note debate', when it is highly doubtful many of us did 'take note'. So I'll share some of my notes in hopes of persuading you to take note too.

Since speaker after speaker credited the ultranationalist lobby organization, the Ukrainian Canadian Congress with teaching them  everything they know on Ukraine, perhaps it is only appropriate that we begin with their view of this debate. After all, the UCC, perhaps more than anyone else in Canada, on the subject of Ukraine, 'makes it happen'.

Ukrainian Canadian Congress: Canadian House of Commons holds Debate on Situation in Ukraine

http://www.ucc.ca/2015/04/30/canadian-house-of-commons-holds-debate-on-s...

But since there is also an international agenda to UCC's domestic one, let's take a look at their 'partners' as well:

Atlantic Council and Ukrainian World Congress Partner to Advance a European, Democratic and United Ukraine

http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/news/press-releases/atlantic-council-and-...

The Atlantic Council is an organization closely associated with NATO, the US State Department and American power. One of those pictured is Natalie Jaresko, a US national, former US State Department offiical and later CEO of Horizon Capital, an investor vulture-fund. Jaresko is now Ukraine's Minister of Finance, and is mentioned in the debate.

Her long-time business partner Lenna Koszarny, a Canadian,  also pictured above, replaced Jaresko as CEO of Horizon Capital. She is Advisory Chair of the Ukrainian Canadian Congress in Kiev, but is referred to in our debate as 'an accountant.' Furthermore, veteran financial writer John Helmer has written extensively on Horizon Capital.

Atlantic Council lists among its advisers, directors and 'honorary' directors, Madeleine Albright, Frank Carlucci, Condoleeza Rice, Robert Gates, George Schulz, James Woolsey, Leon Panetta, Henry Kissinger, Brent Scowcroft, Rupert Murdoch and Zbigniew Brzezinski.

Perhaps you begin to get the picture now. Perhaps this is an additional reason the Ukrainian ultranationalist lobby has been so spectacularly successful and influential with Canadian politicians.

As you may already have noted, the UCC press release supplies an incorrect URL for the debate itself. As for whether this is purposeful or simply an accident, a case can probably be made either way. Have no fear, we have located the correct one below. Just scroll down about 3/4 of the way to the bottom until you come to repeated mentions of 'Ukraine', which will tell you you've arrived.

Perhaps you vaguely recall domestic media reports of Liberal support for the CF Ukraine deployment, but 'issues' outstanding with the NDP, including demands for a formal debate. Perhaps you even expected opposition from the 'official opposition'. Especially given the serious geopolitical implications involved. Especially after Libya. Yet another provocative deployment of Western forces on behalf of one side of a civil war, over the repeated protests and warnings by the Russian Federation.

Perhaps you even wondered if this deployment did not violate the intent if not the spirit of the comprehensive ceasefire and UN Security Council Resolution 2202 (2015), also called the Minsk Agreements. Perhaps, since Article 10 so clearly calls for 'the withdrawal of all foreign armed formations, military equipment as well as mercenaries from the territory of Ukraine,' you wondered why we were sending our own CF 'foreign armed formation, and military equipment' to Ukraine.

UNSC Resoution 2202, Minsk Agreements

http://www.securitycouncilreport.org/atf/cf/%7B65BFCF9B-6D27-4E9C-8CD3-C...

If, as President Poroshenko has clearly stated, the intention is to retake both Crimea and Donbass, then we really are moving into a dangerous geopolitical scenario described by Noam Chomsky as 'three minutes to midnight'. And so, as one of the primary advocates of the Ukrainian regime, with hundreds of millions given to it by Canada, such a debate to thoroughly examine and analyze these critical matters is or should be of the utmost importance to Canadians, to Ukrainians and to the world.

April 29, 2015 'Take Note' Debate on the Ongoing Situation in Ukraine (scroll down 3/4)

http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?Language=E&Mode...

For those too lazy or perhaps too frightened to look inside, allow me to provide some tasty samples and enticements:

"Mr Chair,

...We indicated very quickly after the announcement was made by the government that we would be supportive. I take it from what the defence critic for the NDP has said tonight that his party as well is supporting the training mission that Canada has sent to Ukraine.' Ralph Goodale (Wascana, Lib)

"This is a friendly debate because we agree with the substance of the issue. The government has already engaged in the areas I mentioned. We encourage it to continue its efforts..." Ms Helene Laverdiere (Laurier-Saint Marie, NDP)

"Mr Chair, I would make reference to the fabulous work that the Ukrainian Canadian Congress has done in terms of supporting members of Parliament on all sides of the House. Information that it provides to us is quite substantial and of great benefit." Mr Ken Lamoureux (Winnipeg North, Lib)

"Mr Chair, the aid that Canada has been providing is that which will enable the Ukrainian people and the Ukrainian military to elevate their ability to deal with a very aggressive and brutal regime that is endeavouring to take over not only Crimea but that whole area of the world..." Hon Julian Fantino

"I have to thank the Prime Minister. His leadership on this file is head and shoulders above that of most other world leaders. He had a strong role in making sure that we were there to support Ukraine and its people as they got rid of a very corrupt president.." Mr James Bezan, CPC

"The NDP has not asked a single question in question period since the training announcement was made. It has not written me a letter asking for information. Tonight when I spoke, the NDP members did not ask me for details of the training operation. They asked me about logistics in the Ukrainian military and the provision of supplies. What is going on here?

Let us call a spade a spade. The NDP does not want to take a position, because most Canadians support this training operation. The NDP's ideological base cannot tolerate the notion of Canadian troops operating in any capacity overseas. I think that is what is really happening..." Hon Jason Kenney, CPC

"In terms of what our support for what the government has laid out in support for the troops and training, it was very clear what we wanted to see. It was just very clear goals, ensuring that, it is the professionalism. We are providing what I think we should be doing and being consistenet on it, as official opposition, to say , that we understand what the government's intentions are and we will monitor it closely. We want to ensure the goals are established clearly." Mr Paul Dewar NDP

"I want to tip my hat to the Ukrainian Canadian Congress for its continued relentless efforts to seek the support of Canadians and the Canadian government to build the nation. I also want to thank the Ukrainian Canadian Congress for the establishment of the Canada-Ukraine Foundation, through which all of us an contribute to the building of Ukraine. I want to commmend the Canadian government not simply for stepping forward and providing military training aid..." Ms Linda Duncan (Edmonton-Strathcona, NDP)

"Mr Chair, considering the parties in this House have been remarkably supportive of a mission for which we do not have a lot of information, it is unfortunate that this has turned into some partisan sparring...I support sanctions, but I am also concerned that we have placed Canadian troops into this situation without a discussion in Parliament. I know I may be a very small minority on this point but I am concerned. I would rather see us pursue whatever we can to build the bridges, as I see German leader Angela Merkel attempting to do." Ms Elizabeth May (Saanich - Gulf Islands, GP)

"Mr Chair, I thought I was going to have 10 minutes so having 5 minutes I will speak a little quicker. We join together. This  is a debate in the spirit of collegiality to say that we stand in unison with the people of Ukraine. I want to especially give a shout-out to Paul Grod and the Ukrainian Canadian Congress, because it has been the Ukrainian diaspora that has been really vigilant and forceful in demanding acccountability and support for Ukraine. I really want to thank them.

Let me be clear, as my colleagues have been, my colleagues from Ottawa Centre and from St John's East, that we support the actions of our government in terms of training and professionalization of the military in Ukraine..." Ms Peggy Nash (Parkdale-High Park, NDP)

"I have seen this movie before. My parents in fact have seen this movie before. My father could tell us about this movie from the inside of a gulag. This is something that is recurring in history. Vladimir Putin is also a historian. He studies Stalin, he understands Stalin and he is refining his methods.." Mr Ted Opitz, CPC

Whet your appetite for more? That last one sounds like he could be a poster in the Ukraine thread. Recently Hill Times reported less than 50% of Canadians supported sending troops to Ukraine. Why isn't this reflected in Parliament? I hope it is obvious that people need to put their thinking caps on, do their own research, outside of the UCC,  and come up with a principled position . It clearly isn't to be found in Ottawa. I suggest that a good place to stop this drive to war is with the Minsk Peace Agreement. Or even better, take to the streets. And don't vote for any of them. Chomsky is right. It's 3 minutes to midnight.

Troops Out Now!

 

6079_Smith_W
NDPP

Russia Seeks Extradition of Alleged [UKRAINIAN] Nazi War Criminal Living in Quebec

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/russia-seeks-extradition-of...

"...Russia's request shines a spotlight on a case that has upset Jewish Canadians and war-criminal hunters for years. IN 2015, the Simon Wiesenthal Center's Annual Nazi War-Criminal's Report ranked Mr Katriuk second on the list.

Back in 2013, Conservative MP Mark Adler suggested via Twitter that Mr Katriuk needed to leave. 'Valdimir Katriuk hid his past as a Nazi collaborator. We must not forget. Collaborators' lives shouldn't end on a soft Canadian pillow.'

Russian authorities announced they've opened a criminal investigation into Mr Katriuk. 'We do count on the full and impartial support of the Canadian government. We will always remember that Canada was our ally in fighting Nazi Germany.'

On Friday, the Harper government refused to address the request and immediately shifted back to Russia's aggression in Ukraine..."

 

June 2008 - Bnai Brith Challenges Cabinet on War Criminal Case

http://www.cjnews.com/node/81368

"...At the time, the Harper cabinet examined four cases involving Nazi collaborators who had been found by Federal Court judges to have lied about their wartime activities. The findings made each of them liable to lose their citizenship, but the cabinet only stripped Jacob Fast and Helmut Oberlander of citizenship, leaving the legal status of KATRIUK and ODYNSKY unchanged.

No reasons were given for the decisions, but B'nai Brith lawyer David Matas believes CABINET RELIED ON DOCUMENTARY SUBMISSIONS FROM ODYNSKY AND THE UKRAINIAN CANADIAN CONGRESS..."

 

"On Remembrance Day 2010, PAUL GROD, PRESIDENT OF THE UKRAINIAN CANADIAN CONGRESS, in the name of 1.2 million Ukrainian Canadians, PAID TRIBUTE TO THE VETERANS OF THE WAFFEN SS GALIZIEN, AND REMEMBERED ITS FALLEN 'WHO PERISHED FIGHTING FOR THE FREEDOM OF THEIR ANCESTRAL UKRAINIAN HOMELAND.'

When the president of the Canadian society of veterans of the Waffen SS Galizien passed away earlier that year, THE UCC CLAIMED, 'HE WILL BE REMEMBERED AS A HERO OF UKRAINE WHO FOUGHT FOR HER INDEPENDENCE."

https://twitter.com/VeraVanHorne/status/585956481377378304

Banderite Nazis Run Ukraine - Banderite Nazis run UCC - UCC Runs Canada's Ukraine Policy

Stepan Bandera

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Stepan_Bandera_in_high-ranking_German_...

 

NDPP

Minister Nicholson Announces New Support For Ukraine's Armed Forces

http://www.international.gc.ca/media/aff/news-communiques/2015/05/09a.as...

"Canada delivers non-lethal military equipment..."

 

Security Service Intercepts Truckload of Canadian Humanitarian Aid to [Ukrainian Army] Odessa Fleamarkets

http://twitter.com/ValLisitsa/status/596310996525981696

swallow swallow's picture

Paladin1 wrote:
But back on topic, why shouldn't Canada be involved in what's going on in the Ukrane? Like personal point of view not a news article cut and paste.

Western meddling in wars, of late, has tended to make things worse rather than better. We have the so-called "Islamic" State movement partly as a result of Western intervention in Iraq.

In Ukraine, it would be ideal for all foreign military forces to leave. It's difficult to criticize Russian interference when Canada is interfering too. 

Canadian military and economic aid to Ukraine costs money that is diverted from countries with genuine poverty.

 

6079_Smith_W

swallow wrote:

It's difficult to criticize Russian interference when Canada is interfering too. 

In theory, I agree. The scale is significant in this case, though.

Considering the level of Russian involvement, which isn't likely to stop, and all the other accusations about CIA, Academi, death squads and the like (even if they are all lies), who cares about a camping expedition on the other side of the country.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Canada has a Crush on Fascism - at Home, and in the Ukraine: from Russia Insider

Why is Canada so hot for fascism?  Could it be because there are a lot of Ukrainian fascists in Canada?

 

See Global Research: Canada’s Fascist Shift for the original piece.

The article covers not only the long-standing presence of Ukrainian fascists in Canada, the large Ukrainian diaspora "pandered to in grand style by Candian politicians", but also the Canadian version of the Global War on Terror, the invocation of external and internal "threats" fabricated by the increasing police and surveillance state in Canada, the harassment of dissent, the truncation of diversity in mass media, the infiltration of citizen groups, the increasing role of para-military forces in Canada, and the "splashing over into Canada" of all the disgusting "benefits" of the blood-thirsty US Empire.

Paladin1

swallow wrote:

 

Western meddling in wars, of late, has tended to make things worse rather than better. We have the so-called "Islamic" State movement partly as a result of Western intervention in Iraq.

In Ukraine, it would be ideal for all foreign military forces to leave. It's difficult to criticize Russian interference when Canada is interfering too.

I think the Islamic state is fully a result of western intervention. For all intents and purposes Afghanistan used to look like a paradise. Iran if I recall was pretty sorted out too. West gets involved and look what happens.

I don't think Russia is any better, the only difference is they don't bullshit about their intentions. When they want something they move in and take it.

I don't see a big use for Canada being in Ukraine.  We haven't trained to "fight the russians" in over a decade so we can't really commit too much on the training side of the house.   From what I gather half of Ukraine basically wants to stay Russian or a part of Russia.  It's a big R&D area/industry so that's why Russia wants it back.

Quote:

Canadian military and economic aid to Ukraine costs money that is diverted from countries with genuine poverty.

I agree. There are way better, more pressing places that can use aid and military assets. Those places don't have the big voter base of Ukrainian-Canadains however. the government goes where the votes are.

NDPP

Like the Zionist lobby that pushes Canada to 'support' Israel, another powerful lobby similarly pushes Canada to 'support' Ukraine. It has the ear of not only the Canadian government, but MPs and media as well. For more information on this lobby see below:

The Underbelly of Canadian Multiculturalism: Holocaust Obfuscation and Envy...

http://newcoldwar.org/the-underbelly-of-canadian-multiculturalism-holoca...

"...documents the background shadowing the campaigns spearheaded by the Ukrainian Canadian Civil Liberties Association and the Ukrainian Canadian Congress against CMHR advisory board plans to install a permanent gallery devoted to the Holocaust.

Their history demonstrates how these ultranationalist lobbies have glorified the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists, its militant wing (UPA) and the Waffen SS Galizien, while rationalizing or occluding their roles in Second World War period masscres...."

 

 

NDPP

Walkom: As US Warms to Russia, Canada Stays Chilly (and stupid!) 

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2015/05/13/as-us-warms-to-russia-cana...

"The cold war between Russia and the US is easing. The cold war between Canada and Russia is not."

 

Minister Nicholson Attends Meeting of NATO-Ukraine Commission

http://www.international.gc.ca/media/aff/photos/2015/05/13a.aspx?lang=eng

"Russia's aggression has highlighted the continued importance of assuring the security of the NATO alliance. Along with its NATO allies, Canada continues to call on Russia to cease support of its proxies in Ukraine.

'It is inexcusable that the Putin regime has failed to make good on its commitments under the Minsk Agreements. Canada commends the Ukrainian people on their courage and resilience in the face of Russian aggression. We will continue to stand alongside them as a vocal supporter.'

NDPP

Laurent Brayard: I Was in Donetsk and I Accuse the Authorities of France

http://novorossia.today/loran-brayar-i-was-in-donetsk-and-i-accuse-the-a...

"I accuse you, government of France, together with nearly all journalists of our country, of participation in a horrible lie, as a result of which, people die..."

I am posting this here because history will show that similar accusations, and more, could and should be made against the 'Authorities' and journalists of Canada. It is shocking and disgusting also to see the studied indifference of Canadian 'progressives' to all of this, especially those who continue to support and advance the political fortunes of the very politicians responsible for cheerleading Canadian complicity in this latest vicious imperial adventure. Shame on you all.

iyraste1313

[could and should be made.......

thanks for this! yes a formal denunciation must be made eventually, as we document the supporters of the genocide being perpetrated on the Novorossians, including the authorities of all the political parties, preparing their election bids...which international courts to choose must be determined, by Canadians against Canadians...a petition by Canadians must also be presented to the Governments of the autonomous Republics in denunciation, (not to mention funds on our behalf, even if token!)

Hopefully an independent real alternative political movement will yet arise to likewise take this on! Utilizing the electoral campaign to come, to promote our denunciation!

This thread here could serve a vitally important service!

NDPP

Stephen Harper's Unprincipled and Independent Foreign Policy

http://original.antiwar.com/Ted_Snider/2015/05/29/stephen-harpers-unprin...

"Harper's foreign policy in Ukraine is not only unprincipled and uninformed; it is also inconsistent. Harper's cheerleading for a government that includes neo-Nazis and honors organizations who 'helped the Nazis carry out the holocaust,' is jarringly inconsistent wiht his professed support for Israel.

Harper has adopted two contradictory policies because they are not based on principle."

bekayne

NDPP wrote:

 

Stephen Harper's Unprincipled and Independent Foreign Policy

http://original.antiwar.com/Ted_Snider/2015/05/29/stephen-harpers-unprin...

"Harper's foreign policy in Ukraine is not only unprincipled and uninformed; it is also inconsistent. Harper's cheerleading for a government that includes neo-Nazis and honors organizations who 'helped the Nazis carry out the holocaust,' is jarringly inconsistent wiht his professed support for Israel.

Harper has adopted two contradictory policies because they are not based on principle."

 

Actually, it is based on principle: getting votes in the next election

NDPP

True, which is probably why the other parties have adopted essentially the same positions..

NDPP

On Target: Canada's Tough Talk on Ukraine Has Little Impact  -  by Scott Taylor

http://thechronicleherald.ca/opinions

"...The very fact that we deployed a token number of trainers into a non-NATO nation that is embroiled in a civil war eliminates whatever moral high ground Harper had when he famously quipped to Putin, 'Get out of Ukraine.'

If it was morally wrong for Russia to militarily support a Ukrainian faction in this civil war, then it must be equally wrong for Canada to be fuelling the other side.

While on the subject of moral high ground, had Putin been quicker on his feet when confronted by Harper, he could have responded to the 'Get Out of Ukraine' comment by retorting, 'Fix Libya.' Before poking Putin in the chest over Ukaine, Harper needs to consider all the death and suffering that continues as a result of our own blundered intentions in Libya."

Clearly nothing has changed here. Once again there is no significant opposition and all parties are in support.

NDPP

Canadian Military Trainers To Arrive in Ukraine in Mid-August - Yatsenyuk

http://sptnkne.ws/rbB

"Canadian military instructors will arrive in Ukraine in mid-August and begin training local [Nazi] forces in September, Ukrainian PM Arseniy Yatsenyuk said Wednesday.

The prime minister pointed out that the UK has also joined the US-led Fearless Guardian mission to train and equip Ukrainian troops.  'We expect that other EU countries will join this important mission as well, because this mission concerns European security,' Yatsenyuk was quoted as saying."

iyraste1313

the title of this thread suggests an activist and strategic approach to deal with the imperialist political movement of Canada...this requires systematic documentation of Canada´s involvement and support from all Parties and their members, followed by a legal and political strategy...

it only takes a small group of antifascist canadians to do this...but of course a position taken should be presented to a wider audience of organized Canadians, unions, communities, human rights groups etc.....

It would be great to see such discussions on a range of matters to be held within these pages, less of the cheerleading for one or other of the fascist imperialist parties

NDPP

I agree..

 

Stephen Harper Heads to Ukraine, But Won't Comment To Providing Weapons

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/stephen-harper-heads-to-ukr...

Stephen Harper is heading to Ukraine to demonstrate solidarity just as Kiev's war with Russia-backed rebels escalates.

Paul Grod, president of the Ukrainian Canadian Congress, an influential lobby in Ottawa, who is accompanying Mr Harper to Kiev, is calling on Canada and its allies to 'immediately provide Ukraine with defensive weapons, including anti-tank weapons,'  to defend its territory and population.

Asked to respond to the request on Thursday, the PM said a decision on lethal aid would be 'only made in concert with our allies."

Harpo and Grod  - Canada's fascist tag-team

Paladin1

NDPP wrote:

 

Paul Grod, president of the Ukrainian Canadian Congress, an influential lobby in Ottawa, who is accompanying Mr Harper to Kiev, is calling on Canada and its allies to 'immediately provide Ukraine with defensive weapons, including anti-tank weapons,'  to defend its territory and population.

 

Good luck with that, we don't have any.  The closest we have is in the picture below. It's 67 years old and capable of penitrating up to 400mm of armor (with the really expensive $10'000 a piece rockets).   Russian tanks have 550mm-830mm depending on which tank so it wouldn't do too well.   I'm sure they could buy them on ebay or something if they really wanted to.

 

NDPP

The regime is after money above all. Cyberberkut has already caught them selling weapons to the Middle East and even Donbass militia members report that they have purchased large amounts of weaponry from UAF personnel. Canada has already given them 600 M or so, and all involved know that money won't ever been seen again. Kleptocrats and Nazis. Canadians are fools and dupes to be taken in by these crooks and fascists.

NDPP

Canada's Harper Government Provides Military Training to Neo Nazi Ukraine National Guard  -  by Michel Chossudovsky

http://www.globalresearch.ca/canadas-harper-government-provides-military...

"Surely Canadians should be made aware that their government is sending instructors to train Neo-Nazi recruits."

And now that you have been and presuming you disapprove, you must act. Voting won't help as they're all supporters. So what next?

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