Robocalls Scandal Thread #2 - Now up to 34 ridings

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Debater
Robocalls Scandal Thread #2 - Now up to 34 ridings

Ridings the Liberals and NDP say received reports of false or misleading calls during the last election:

LIBERALS:

1. Sydney-Victoria (NS)

2. Egmont (PE)

3. Eglinton-Lawrence (ON)

4. Etobicoke Centre (ON)

5. Guelph (ON)

6. Cambridge (ON)

7. Hamilton East-Stoney Creek (ON)

8. Haldimand-Norfolk (ON)

9. Kitchener-Conestoga (ON)

10. Kitchener-Waterloo (ON)

11. London North Centre (ON)

12. London West (ON)

13. Mississauga East-Cooksville (ON)

14. Niagara Falls (ON)

15. Oakville (ON)

16. Ottawa-Orleans (ON)

17. Ottawa West-Nepean (ON)

18. Parkdale - High Park (ON)

19. Perth - Wellington (ON)

20. Simcoe-Grey (ON)

21. St. Catharines (ON)

22. St. Paul's (ON)

23. Sudbury (ON)

24. Wellington - Halton Hills (ON)

25. Willowdale (ON)

26. Saint Boniface (MB)

27. Winnipeg South Centre (MB)

NDP:

28. Davenport (ON)

29. Edmonton East (AB)

30. Elmwood-Transcona (MB)

31. Ottawa Centre (ON)

Parkdale-High Park (also on Liberal list)

32. South Shore-St. Margaret's (NS)

Sudbury (also on Liberal list)

33. Thunder Bay-Superior North (ON)

34. Windsor-Tecumseh (ON)

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/02/25/pol-rae-robocalls-satur...

 

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

On CTV QP, Dean Del Mastro is trying to downgrade this by saying Cons got these robocalls too. Pat Martin said that's a stupid thing to say.

Debater

Yes, it may be a strategy by the Cons to throw people off.  Funny how only one Conservative campaign was targeted, isn't it?  It's rather at odds with the rest of the pattern across the country.

Leigh

it would be useful if people in the ridings challenged the results,

with the information from Steven Shrybman's notes at rabble:

http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/steven-shrybman/2012/02/if-you-didnt-rob...

JKR

As it turns out, we don't have to depend only on Elections Canada to rectify this mess. People who were eligible to vote in these ridings can go to court to nullify the results of the election in their riding.

If you didn't like that #robocall here's something you might do about it.  By Steven Shrybman. Rabble Blog

Quote:

Evidence has recently come to light that among other dirty tricks to suppress the NDP and Liberal vote, fraudulent robocalls where made to voters in several ridings by a firm linked to the Conservative party.

Understaffed Elections Canada has been investigating since last summer, and the leaders of the NDP and Liberal parties have called for a full inquiry.

But there is also a remedy under the Elections Canada Act that many may not be aware of, for s. 524(1) of the Act provides that:

Any elector who was eligible to vote in an electoral district, and any candidate in an electoral district, may, by application to a competent court, contest the election in that electoral district on the grounds that:

...

b) there were irregularities, fraud or corrupt or illegal practices that affected the result of the election.

Section 531 (2)of the Act further provides:

 After hearing the application, the court may dismiss it if the grounds referred to in paragraph 524(1)(a) or (b), as the case may be, are not established and, where they are established, shall declare the election null and void or may annul the election, respectively.

But anyone thinking about invoking their right to file an application under s. 524(1) should be aware that under s. 527, their right to do so is time limited, for such an application must be filed within 30 days after the later of

• (a) the day on which the result of the contested election is published in the Canada Gazette, and

• (b) the day on which the applicant first knew or should have known of the occurrence of the alleged irregularity, fraud, corrupt practice or illegal practice.

jerrym

Finally a Harper policy I agree with. Use the extra money for prisons to throw all the Cons in jail with a minimum sentence of life for fraud and treason.

Debater

Is there a 30-day time limit after the election in which the claim must be mounted?

Debater

Dean Del Mastro? They put up Dean Del Mastro to defend them? Things must be pretty grim over there if he's the best they've got.

 

https://twitter.com/#!/justinpjtrudeau

Debater

Here's a page which talks about the little creep Michael Sona, and has a photo of him posing with a gun:

 

http://take-back-the-right.blogspot.com/2012/02/return-of-michael-little...

Michelle

If they were doing the robocalls in Davenport, then they were targeting the Liberals in that one too - it was a Liberal incumbent in that riding, and one could make the case that it worked.  So I don't know why Davenport is listed as a riding where the NDP was targeted.

For those who were wondering in the previous thread why the media is focusing on Bob Rae's reaction on this instead of the NDP's reaction, it's pretty clear to me that it's because it was mostly the Liberal Party that was targeted by these calls.

I think it's a little weird that NDP supporters and politicians are now talking about the suppression of "NDP and Liberal voters" in that order.  The main target was the Liberal Party, and that was where the tactic was clearly successful.

Lard Tunderin Jeezus Lard Tunderin Jeezus's picture

An NDP voter might choose not to vote, but never would they vote Conservative in order to seek the comeuppance of the offending party, so for that reason Liberals (more likely to switch their vote to Con than NDP generally) were the more obvious target.

Which is to say, I agree with Michelle.

vaudree

Wasn't Elmwood Transcona the riding that Rebecca Blaikie lost by a very small margin?

Beat them join them thread:

vaudree wrote:

Tommy_Paine wrote:

It wouldn't surprise me today if the Liberals fire a campaign staffer for not thinking of Robocalls before the Tories did.

You've got a point there.

Also, I think I am seeing the beginnings of a strategy on the part of the Liberals to try to spin this as the Tories going after the Liberals moreso than the NDP (because they didn't think the NDP were a threat) and that the NDP going to second place is an inadvertent effect of the Tories trying to discourage Liberal voters. Watch, it will happen.

My mom got a call just after the debate started about a survey of her NDP leadership preferences (she is in St.Boniface) and I told her to tell Pat Martin about it since it was a call claiming to be from the party at an inconvenient time. She figured that it would be silly to complain about something so small but I told her to because either the NDP has got to know not to do robo call surveys in the middled of a leadership debate or it is - someone else behind it.

 

JKR

Debater wrote:

Is there a 30-day time limit after the election in which the claim must be mounted?

No. It's 30 days from the day a person learns that an irregularity took place in their riding.

 Since this is only coming to light now, people now have 30 days from when they found out about this to go to court.

Quote:

• (b) the day on which the applicant first knew or should have known of the occurrence of the alleged irregularity, fraud, corrupt practice or illegal practice.

 

So time is of the essence to get complaints heard by the legal system.

Erik Redburn

This is a great idea. I hope someone follows through on it. 

Buddy Kat

Well the cons playing "you can't beat them join them" was predicted but they might want to consider the fact that maybe they were trying to get rid of one of there own, after all they do have a history of turning on each other.  That pic of M sona is priceless showis how the conservatives attract right wing extremists ..How many examples do Canadians need before they wise up?

This could be more widespread than even todays reports as I just heard on global the NDP are up to 11 ridings subjected to this frauduleant conservative criminal behaviour ..and now there is talk about how a judge can overturn the results of the last election!!!!

 

Hurry up NDP pick that leader ...Mulcair wink wink nudge nudge

 

Regarding the time limit..It should be obvious to any judge that the esssence of a fraud is to not know at the time the criminal act occured that you are being subjected to it , but rather after the fact which is really within the last 48 hours ...so if that law stands this is the beginning of the end of the conservative criminal regime...the proof is how the evidence is mounting on a daily basis now that the fraud has been exposed....Wink

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-QvXax88J8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0eQgUpkJ1Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ns8LD5Q8ecc

 

jerrym

 

vaudree wrote:
Wasn't Elmwood Transcona the riding that Rebecca Blaikie lost by a very small margin?
No. Elmswood Transcona had been Jim Maloway's riding to Conservative Lawrence Toet. He lost by 300 votes exactly. Rebecca Blaikie ran in Winnipeg North losing to Liberal Kevin La,oureux by 117 votes.

 

Debater

Buddy Kat wrote:

That pic of M sona is priceless showis how the conservatives attract right wing extremists ..

The photo of him with the gun?  There's also one I think I posted on the first thread that shows him at Bible Camp.  And there's one of him with Stephen Harper.

troublesome_thomas

 

A little something to spread around the internet and make Stephen Harper smile Smile

 

Debater

Robocalls scandal spreads across Canada as number of affected ridings hits 34

 

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/02/26/robocalls-scandal-spreads-across...

Ippurigakko

there are 23 cons out by 34 (rae and martin list)

166 - 23 = 143 (2008) ?

Stockholm

In many of those ridings there Tories won by huge margins and there is zero chance that you could ever prove that robo-calls made a difference of thousands of votes in one riding. You would literally need signed affidavits from thousands of voters in just one riding. There is no way this scandal will overturn the result in any riding where the margins of victory was more than 50 votes so you are looking at one by election MAYBE

Caissa

The real issue is whether or not this can be traced to a political party, and if it is, whether Canadians will exhibit any substantial form of outrage in response.

Stockholm

I agree. I think we should move away from deluding ourselves into thinking this will be some sort of short-cut into overturning the entire 2011 election - ain't gonna happen. But it IS a good way to expose how corrupt cynical and unethical the Tories are and help chip away at their image with the public.

Caissa

One thing that amazes me is the political scandals are treating with greater weight in many other countries while Canada sems to have become blaise about these sorts of incidents. 2011 happened, the only way a government will resign is if it becomes so mired in scandal that to do otherwise would be unthinkable.

contrarianna

Quote:
The newest allegations to surface are in a letter that NDP MPs Charlie Angus and Alexandre Boulerice sent to Elections Canada over the weekend, including two phone numbers they say were the source of harassing or misleading calls to NDP supporters in Thunder Bay-Superior North and Edmonton East on the evening of April 29, 2011, three days before the May 2 election.

“As we unearth additional specific evidence, we will forward it to you,” the MPs wrote, listing several ridings where they are doing their own investigation of complaints from campaign workers or party backers. “We urge you, in the strongest possible terms, to ensure that the people or parties responsible for these dirty tricks are held to account and charged accordingly.”

Globe and Mail

And, as I (mis)posted in the other thread,
there are several reasons not to just wait for the RCMP, the beneficiary of the Harper Security State:

Quote:
A class-action lawsuit would offer insights into the Conservative robocall scandal
By Charlie Smith, February 25, 2012

....
Maybe the time has come to call in a good lawyer and file a class-action suit.

This lawyer could subpoena witnesses, demand documents, and possibly force the defendants to pay damages to all those voters whose rights were trampled on.

The best part of all is that the Canadian public might not have to wait years for the RCMP to get to the bottom of this affair when that same RCMP is dependent on the Harper government for its funding.


http://www.straight.com/article-617891/vancouver/classaction-lawsuit-wou...

Stockholm

Caissa wrote:

One thing that amazes me is the political scandals are treating with greater weight in many other countries while Canada sems to have become blaise about these sorts of incidents.

I thought the sponsorship scandal was given quite a bit of weight...though it should be noted that it first started to leak out in 2001 and took years to really damage the Liberals.

Buddy Kat

True a class action or even better every single individual go on mass demonstartions like Egypt would work..The rcmp have the credibility of a shit box when it comes to investigating  anything conservative.... they even let the conservative cocaine posseser off....you would think the in /out scheme would of raised concern? I can't believe they defrauded and cheated that time and got away with it....When it comes to covering up Tommy D's  file (obvious political assasination) and gawd knows what they did to Jack (obvious political assasination2)....every time the left shows signs off taking over they assasinate the leader....they even had a sleazy activist  file on Bob Rae....do you think these rat bastards have a file on Harper? I bet not... it's going to be up to the people to change that around..ingrained nazism has to be dealt with in differant ways....and any hero's coming out of this fiasco will have songs sung about them csis..no matter what they do!  Surely there must be some decent humans left in the rcmp /csis that can do something?

 

Fidel

So how long will it be before Harper and his friends in the democratic-imperialist nations of Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain etc demand a no-fly zone over Canada? How long before Hillary Clinton states that Harper is only delaying the inevitable and that Harper is "done." How long before Al-CIA'duh is airlifted into Canada and armed to the eye-teeth to raise hell on behalf of the true 60% majority? I have a strong feeling it will never happen.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Judicial inquiry needed into election scandal

 

excerpt:

 

No, this will not lead to a redo of the May 2 vote, or to by elections in ridings found by Elections Canada to have been targeted. That's because, though outcomes may have been affected, it will be nigh impossible to establish by how much. All we can say is that the legitimacy of Tory victories, in ridings found to have been hit by fraudulent tactics favouring Conservatives, and in which the Conservatives won, will be permanently tainted.

Fidel

Michael Den Tandt wrote:
Stephen Harper saw Paul Martin slowly dismantle the Liberal party with the Gomery Inquiry, which he himself convened. Every nerve in this PM's body will shriek out against the notion of a public investigation. He has a majority. He can try to ride it out, hoping the coming budget changes the channel. He can hope that, come Election 2015, Canadians will have forgotten.

It won't wash. Based on the facts now known, this was electoral fraud - focused, organized and widespread. Rae did not exaggerate when he called it Nixonian. There needs to be a public, arm's-length judicial investigation.

The phony-majority Harpers are looking very beatable in 2015.

Buddy Kat

Fidel wrote:

So how long will it be before Harper and his friends in the democratic-imperialist nations of Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain etc demand a no-fly zone over Canada? How long before Hillary Clinton states that Harper is only delaying the inevitable and that Harper is "done." How long before Al-CIA'duh is airlifted into Canada and armed to the eye-teeth to raise hell on behalf of the true 60% majority? I have a strong feeling it will never happen.

 

That will never happen ..no one is going to come to Canada's defence..no Russians or Chinese or Arabs..nope ..but when there are election irregularities in Libya we bomb the piss out of them till they remove the dictator...boy did we ever make a stink over Iran's election demonstrations.

Here we just let the little pukey little  pundits on the TV bully us and tell us what to do...it's actually pathetic...I was working on a song called "Suck it up dummy canuk"  .....I would much rather write a song ... " Don't F*&^  with Tommy Canuk"...just hoping Canadians will stand up to the Harper regime...Hell I'll even provide backing tracks like the Yankees did in Iraq...a little death metal to get the blood and adrenaline going ...

http://rt.com/programs/documentary/songs-war-chytroschek-buero/

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-QvXax88J8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0eQgUpkJ1Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ns8LD5Q8ecc

 

Debater

I just hope that the fact that Bob Rae has apologized to Vic Toews for Vikileaks doesn't allow the Conservatives to get away with the robocalls.

Publishing legal, public information about Vic Toews that the Canadian press should have exposed long ago, should not be allowed to distract from the far more serious criminal activity of the robocalls.

Both the Opposition and the Canadian press must stand firm and not allow the Conservatives to distract from the issue.

NorthReport

House passes NDP motion to back 'robocalls' probe

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Politics/20120227/robocalls-battle-house-of-co...

Debater

Large majority of viewers (84%) to Power & Politics are saying Vikileaks is not the same as Robocalls.

Good!

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Also on P&P: Pat Martin says the number of ridings hit by RoboCon is now 41.

Debater

How high will it go?

Nobody knows!  (Except perhaps the Cons).

Fidel

Buddy Kat wrote:

Fidel wrote:

So how long will it be before Harper and his friends in the democratic-imperialist nations of Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain etc demand a no-fly zone over Canada? How long before Hillary Clinton states that Harper is only delaying the inevitable and that Harper is "done." How long before Al-CIA'duh is airlifted into Canada and armed to the eye-teeth to raise hell on behalf of the true 60% majority? I have a strong feeling it will never happen.

 

That will never happen ..no one is going to come to Canada's defence..no Russians or Chinese or Arabs..nope ..but when there are election irregularities in Libya we bomb the piss out of them till they remove the dictator...boy did we ever make a stink over Iran's election demonstrations.

Here we just let the little pukey little  pundits on the TV bully us and tell us what to do...it's actually pathetic...I was working on a song called "Suck it up dummy canuk"  .....I would much rather write a song ... " Don't F*&^  with Tommy Canuk"...just hoping Canadians will stand up to the Harper regime...Hell I'll even provide backing tracks like the Yankees did in Iraq...a little death metal to get the blood and adrenaline going ...

http://rt.com/programs/documentary/songs-war-chytroschek-buero/

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-QvXax88J8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0eQgUpkJ1Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ns8LD5Q8ecc

 

 

 

That was awesome! Thanks Buddykat. I like that photo of Harper and Bush with caption that says, If you sleep with dogs, you get fleas. lol!

takeitslowly

its discouraging to know the NDP is only asking for a probe.. i want by elections

JKR

Stockholm wrote:

There is no way this scandal will overturn the result in any riding where the margins of victory was more than 50 votes so you are looking at one by election MAYBE

If there is no punishment for electoral fraud, why should we expect it to end?

takeitslowly

its discouraging to know the NDP is only asking for a probe.. i want by elections

Debater

"I made misleading election calls claiming to be from the Tories: Call centre workers speak out"

 

 

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/02/27/i-made-misleading-election-calls...

 

Debater

Star A1 exclusive:

Call-centre staff given CPC script to say polls had changed

 

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1137273--conservativ...

janfromthebruce

well in my view that is irrelevant - the vote difference. The election results are tainted and also the voter subsidy is tainted too. Electoral fraud should mean that a new bi-election is called in that riding.

 

JKR wrote:

Stockholm wrote:

There is no way this scandal will overturn the result in any riding where the margins of victory was more than 50 votes so you are looking at one by election MAYBE

If there is no punishment for electoral fraud, why should we expect it to end?

______________________________________________________________________________________ Our kids live together and play together in their communities, let's have them learn together too!

Debater

Conservative scripts misdirected voters in 2011 election, say call centre staff

 

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1137273--conservativ...

Debater
Stockholm

JKR wrote:

Stockholm wrote:

There is no way this scandal will overturn the result in any riding where the margins of victory was more than 50 votes so you are looking at one by election MAYBE

If there is no punishment for electoral fraud, why should we expect it to end?

THere absoluetly MUST be STIFF punishment for electoral fraud. The police should be called in, there should be an investigation and I want all the senior Tories behind this to be charged with electoral fraud and sent to JAIL.

Trying to force byelections is a waste of time. Its simply not going to happen. You need signed sworn affidavits in a riding that add to more than the margin of victory to make a case for a "controverted election". You MIGHT get 25 people in Etobicoke Centre (where the Tory won over the Liberal by 24 votes) to sign an affidavit they were 100% intending to vote Liberal and that because of a call directing them to the wrong polling station they were unable to vote at all. All the other ridings had much too big a margin of victory for any of these "dirty tricks" toi have affected the outcome. The law is 100% clear about this.

Lord Palmerston

...which is unfortunate.  If you cheat only say one question out of 10 on a university exam and answer the other nine "honestly" you get a grade of ZERO on the whole thing, not just on the section you cheated on.  

 

Debater

Stephen Harper is a sociopath, and it is time the Canadian press realize this.

Remember, he has said he wants to "destroy the Liberal Party".  What does that say about him?  That's not a normal political statement in Canada.

I don't ever remember a Prime Minister, Conservative or Liberal before, saying that they want to obliterate and wipe off the face of the earth all their political opponents.  Beat them and win the election?  Yes.  But Harper's pathological desire to win at all costs make him a dangerous man.

And he has telegraphed his intentions in advance.  The Chuck Cadman attempted vote bribery.  Hiring a convicted criminal like Bruce Carson as an adviser.  Allowing his party to break election spending laws.  Permitting his party to make fake by-election phone calls in Mount Royal against Irwin Colter last year.

Put it all together, and you have Canada's Richard Nixon at work.

Buddy Kat

Debater wrote:

Buddy Kat wrote:

That pic of M sona is priceless showis how the conservatives attract right wing extremists ..

The photo of him with the gun?  There's also one I think I posted on the first thread that shows him at Bible Camp.  And there's one of him with Stephen Harper.

 

 

The one where he has the gun ..it fits with the line in my song ..attracting sexist, racists bigtime...(1:20 mark of top video below)....I have the Conservative Norwegian kid killer pic as yer typical right wing extremest..well Canada now has their own ..but instead of killing lefty kids in a camp ..he kills our electoral process. 

I don't think the media and people are grasping the seriousness of this at all...There are many people who don't use guns to get their point across because they have that power of voting..and they take it seriously ..to have that only power threatened or taken away is asking for trouble....the reason I use my guitar as weapon  is because I CAN vote...so what I have to do now is even more songs ...to pacify my protest and activist feelings.

At least when I'm sitting in a courtroom explaning why  "neocon scum corporate bum"..I can tell them why .....or rip our police system apart with a "momma when I grow up I want to be an ork"..I'll tell them why...oh yeah now that they have ruined my vote power they are going to get it bigtime.

This business about isolated incident that MaKay is pumping is baloney also ..911 is an isolated incident that killed 1 million innocent people...the Norwegian wack job conservative extremest is an isolated incident that klilled many kids..and this if an isolated incident can end up killing our electoral process and who knows what it can escalate into....

Actually by the comment count on the CBC this weekend I seen 4000..that is triple to quadruple the Afghan detanee count , so there is lots of interest in this fraud...

It's basically up to the media ...the sheeple in Canada will act accordingly....

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-QvXax88J8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0eQgUpkJ1Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ns8LD5Q8ecc

 

 

 

Lord Palmerston

Warren Kinseslla wrote:
If senior people within the Conservative Party of Canada conspired to rig the May 2011 election, what are the consequences? For Stephen Harper’s party, the penalties could be very, very significant. They range from fines and jail time to deregistration of Harper’s party and liquidation of its assets.

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/02/27/first-election-scandal-casualty-dem...

Buddy Kat

Debater wrote:

Stephen Harper is a sociopath, and it is time the Canadian press realize this.

Remember, he has said he wants to "destroy the Liberal Party".  What does that say about him?  That's not a normal political statement in Canada.

I don't ever remember a Prime Minister, Conservative or Liberal before, saying that they want to obliterate and wipe off the face of the earth all their political opponents.  Beat them and win the election?  Yes.  But Harper's pathological desire to win at all costs make him a dangerous man.

And he has telegraphed his intentions in advance.  The Chuck Cadman attempted vote bribery.  Hiring a convicted criminal like Bruce Carson as an adviser.  Allowing his party to break election spending laws.  Permitting his party to make fake by-election phone calls in Mount Royal against Irwin Colter last year.

Put it all together, and you have Canada's Richard Nixon at work.

 

 

Yeah true ..that's what bugs me about his ..if you have evidence , give it too elections Canada statement... Who the hell trusts a government that already was found in contempt and pulled off election fraud before and the attempted bribe of the Cadman fellow....

All he wants are the names of the people so he can intimadate them would be my first thought...or bribe them into silence . People don't even trust the rcmp anymore, under Harper...elections Canada and the Justice system folded like a cheap lawn chair over the in/out scheme....the senate is stacked like some kind of communist review board...The Afghan detainee issue , despite all the redactions and secrecy was given the cone of silence treatment citing national security, probably for good reason (genocidal mania) as the next step is the Hague for Harper..he's looking like the picture the west painted  of Gadhafi...especially with the latest peeping tom spy bill and another electoral fraud of immense proportions being uncovered under his dictorial rule.

Ha Ha Nixon ..one of the most hated politicians ever, even making the book of lists...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-QvXax88J8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0eQgUpkJ1Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ns8LD5Q8ecc

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