Star Trek and Canadian Politics

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cco

theleftyinvestor wrote:

cco wrote:
the whitest guy I've ever seen named Singh.

I suddenly have a craving for universal pharmacare.

Yeah, but Cumberbatch isn't just white. If he were any paler he'd be see-through. Dude looks like a vampire. At least Martin looks like he gets some sun every now and again.

theleftyinvestor

cco wrote:
Yeah, but Cumberbatch isn't just white. If he were any paler he'd be see-through. Dude looks like a vampire. At least Martin looks like he gets some sun every now and again.

I'm sure somewhere in the depths of fandom, someone is trying to come up for an explanation as to why Khan looks so different in the alternate timeline. Like maybe the admiral did some genetic experiments on him after waking him up. Or maybe there is actually more than one man with Khan's memories among the cryo-frozen bodies, and in the alternate timeline a different one was thawed.

keltarking

As a Trekkie myself, I find I must object to comparing the Harpercons to the Klingons, or even the Borg. The Klingons are highly driven by honor and glory, and there is neither to be had using the Harper Cookbook. As for the Borg, they don't do what they do out of malice or desire for power, they seek perfection, and believe adding new species to their collective will take them closer to their goal.

Now you might say, "OK, what about the Romulans? There's a devious lot if I've ever seen one." True, but they tend to be much too subtle to be a good fit for Stevie's gang, which tend to be somewhat ham-fisted in their methods.

Who then, you ask, fits the bill? I see but one possibility: the Dominion. With seemingly limitless resources, they are hellbent on conquest and power at any cost, and are more than willing to send endless waves of troops to their doom to achieve their objectives. They make even the Cardassians look like boyscouts.

cco

I had a philosophy professor in university who'd worked out an elaborate comparison to the DS9 races and all the major philosophies. According to him, the Federation was Kant, the Dominion was Plato, and the Cardassians were Machiavelli. I can't remember who the Klingons and Romulans were. I'm sure it wasn't intentional, but he made a very convincing case.

Pogo Pogo's picture

radiorahim wrote:

"Ford Nation" (the adherents of Toronto Mayor Rob Ford) are kind of like the Ferengi ... just not as smart and without the ethics.

  From out in BC they seem to be more like the Pakleds

theleftyinvestor

keltarking wrote:

Who then, you ask, fits the bill? I see but one possibility: the Dominion. With seemingly limitless resources, they are hellbent on conquest and power at any cost, and are more than willing to send endless waves of troops to their doom to achieve their objectives. They make even the Cardassians look like boyscouts.

That would make the backbenchers and senators who repeat the same lines fed to them day-in, day-out - the Jem'Hadar. Someone forgot to give Rathgeber his ketracel-white.

And the Founders, well they have shape-shifted over the ages from SoCreds to Reformers to CCRAP to "strong stable majority".

cco

Pogo wrote:

  From out in BC they seem to be more like the Pakleds


Hah! And here I thought I was clever comparing Doug Ford to Biff Tannen. Rob looks for things. Things he needs. Things (like crack) that make him go.

cco

theleftyinvestor wrote:

cco wrote:
Yeah, but Cumberbatch isn't just white. If he were any paler he'd be see-through. Dude looks like a vampire. At least Martin looks like he gets some sun every now and again.

I'm sure somewhere in the depths of fandom, someone is trying to come up for an explanation as to why Khan looks so different in the alternate timeline. Like maybe the admiral did some genetic experiments on him after waking him up. Or maybe there is actually more than one man with Khan's memories among the cryo-frozen bodies, and in the alternate timeline a different one was thawed.

Actually, someone just came up with the best explanation I've heard yet (and we're going DEEP down the nerdery rabbit hole here, so bear with me, folks). My primary objection to all the canon changes was that the established time-travel event in XI, Nero's incursion, didn't come far back enough to change as many things as we saw. All of Enterprise would still be canon, for example.

But then someone pointed out to me that there have been something like 53 time travel plots in Star Trek, and they'd all be recursively affected. If Nero destroys Vulcan, then 150 years later there's most likely no Tuvok, for example.

No Tuvok, Janeway doesn't have her undercover for the Maquis. Maybe she doesn't track Chakotay's ship into the Badlands, doesn't get thrown into the Delta Quadrant, and therefore doesn't encounter Braxton and go back to 1996 to steal hyper-advanced 29th century technology from Henry Starling.

So if Starling has his more advanced technology, that changes the design of starships from there on out. Maybe it means "Tomorrow is Yesterday" and "Assignment: Earth" don't happen as planned. If Kirk and crew don't help out Gary Seven, maybe the Eugenics Wars happen in the 90s after all...

No wonder time travel gives Kirk and Bones a headache.

On a side note, I wonder if, in the new canon, Bones injecting that tribble with Augment blood is what leads to their Malthusian reproductive rate. If so: Nice job breaking it, hero.

theleftyinvestor

cco wrote:

Actually, someone just came up with the best explanation I've heard yet (and we're going DEEP down the nerdery rabbit hole here, so bear with me, folks). My primary objection to all the canon changes was that the established time-travel event in XI, Nero's incursion, didn't come far back enough to change as many things as we saw. All of Enterprise would still be canon, for example.

But then someone pointed out to me that there have been something like 53 time travel plots in Star Trek, and they'd all be recursively affected. If Nero destroys Vulcan, then 150 years later there's most likely no Tuvok, for example.

No Tuvok, Janeway doesn't have her undercover for the Maquis. Maybe she doesn't track Chakotay's ship into the Badlands, doesn't get thrown into the Delta Quadrant, and therefore doesn't encounter Braxton and go back to 1996 to steal hyper-advanced 29th century technology from Henry Starling.

So if Starling has his more advanced technology, that changes the design of starships from there on out. Maybe it means "Tomorrow is Yesterday" and "Assignment: Earth" don't happen as planned. If Kirk and crew don't help out Gary Seven, maybe the Eugenics Wars happen in the 90s after all...

No wonder time travel gives Kirk and Bones a headache.

On a side note, I wonder if, in the new canon, Bones injecting that tribble with Augment blood is what leads to their Malthusian reproductive rate. If so: Nice job breaking it, hero.

A few things (MAJOR nerd alert):

1) Don't forget that Enterprise itself was deeply affected by the "Temporal Cold War" plotline from the future. Also there was that episode where they discovered frozen Borg left over from the time travel that happened in the First Contact film.

2) Tuvok was born in 2264, but not on Vulcan. He was born on something called the "Vulcanis Lunar Colony" (Memory Alpha: it is not clear where this colony is, since Vulcan has no moon). Alternate-Vulcan was destroyed in 2258. If Tuvok's parents already lived away from Vulcan six years before his birth, he may still yet come to exist.

3) The original Space Seed saw Khan woken up in 2267. In the new reality he is woken up circa 2258-2259 by Admiral Marcus. So I still consider it possible that a different Khan was woken up. Also from Memory Alpha: Orci said they shyed away from casting an Asian actor as Khan because "it became uncomfortable for me to support demonizing anyone of color, particularly any one of middle eastern descent or anyone evoking that. One of the points of the movie is that we must be careful about the villain within US, not some other race." He also stated the "true essence" of Khan's character was "that he was a genetically engineered superman," "not where he was from or the color of his skin." In response to a question asking whether Khan's appearance was "cosmetically altered to avoid detection", Orci said that the theory was an "Interesting idea. Could be.". Also, in answer to a question about Khan's change in features, he said "uhm…. one of his abilities is that he is a shape shifter?"

4) If one follows canonical timelines, the Eugenics Wars were happening at the same time as the Voyager episodes where they went back in time and found Starling.

cco

theleftyinvestor wrote:

A few things (MAJOR nerd alert):

Oh, I think we're well into the deep end now. :)

theleftyinvestor wrote:

1) Don't forget that Enterprise itself was deeply affected by the "Temporal Cold War" plotline from the future. Also there was that episode where they discovered frozen Borg left over from the time travel that happened in the First Contact film.

That basically jives with the point I was making, I think...

theleftyinvestor wrote:

2) Tuvok was born in 2264, but not on Vulcan. He was born on something called the "Vulcanis Lunar Colony" (Memory Alpha: it is not clear where this colony is, since Vulcan has no moon). Alternate-Vulcan was destroyed in 2258. If Tuvok's parents already lived away from Vulcan six years before his birth, he may still yet come to exist.

But who's to say his career path will be the same? In VOY: Flashback, we've already established he had grave doubts about Starfleet. Maybe after the destruction of his homeworld he decided to devote his career to a Zionist-type activity to reëstablish Vulcan on some other (hopefully unpopulated) desert world.

theleftyinvestor wrote:

3) The original Space Seed saw Khan woken up in 2267. In the new reality he is woken up circa 2258-2259 by Admiral Marcus. So I still consider it possible that a different Khan was woken up. Also from Memory Alpha: Orci said they shyed away from casting an Asian actor as Khan because "it became uncomfortable for me to support demonizing anyone of color, particularly any one of middle eastern descent or anyone evoking that. One of the points of the movie is that we must be careful about the villain within US, not some other race." He also stated the "true essence" of Khan's character was "that he was a genetically engineered superman," "not where he was from or the color of his skin." In response to a question asking whether Khan's appearance was "cosmetically altered to avoid detection", Orci said that the theory was an "Interesting idea. Could be.". Also, in answer to a question about Khan's change in features, he said "uhm…. one of his abilities is that he is a shape shifter?"

Well, if we're going to bring real-world considerations into this, then obviously the main one is that Cumberbatch is a high-profile actor who agreed to do it and Benicio del Toro passed on the role. But sticking within canon...well, I guess the original Kirk and crew were very familiar with Khan as a 20th-century dictator of half of Asia, but I suppose you could write off nuKirk's ignorance of this as a result of his father dying and him not being such a good student and so forth.

theleftyinvestor wrote:

4) If one follows canonical timelines, the Eugenics Wars were happening at the same time as the Voyager episodes where they went back in time and found Starling.

Right, but this is my point: The various and sundry interlacing time-travel plots allow for almost infinite variations when placed in a feedback loop. I mean, hell, Picard went back to the dawn of humanity in a sludge pool somewhere. He and half his crew went back to 19th-century San Francisco. Kirk went back to the 1930s, the 1960s (twice), the 1980s...and on, and on, and on...

Who's to say that Nero's incursion didn't, at some point, cause enough of a disturbance among future time-voyagers to ripple through?

theleftyinvestor

There was an interesting Star Trek book which took the multiple-incursions thing a step further. Scotty, after being in transport-stasis for all these years, but before the events of the TNG finale, decides to travel back in time to beam Kirk out of the Enterprise-B moments before he vanishes, reasoning that it won't affect the timeline because Kirk was never found again. The Enterprise-D follows Scotty to stop him but it's too late. The moment Scotty beams Kirk out, the entire universe changes and Earth is completely taken over by Borg.

The logic being, of course: In the events of Genesis, Kirk emerges from the Nexus with Picard and helps him defeat Soran. Without Kirk to fetch from the Nexus, Picard fails to defeat Soran and is therefore unable to intervene in the events of First Contact, where the Borg travel back and attack Earth. Hence by pulling Kirk out, Scotty changes a future incursion and the past changes too.

If you could make one temporal incursion into the history of Canadian politics, what would it be? I would perhaps try and change Broadbent's decision to decline Trudeau's offer of proportional representation in 1980.

cco

Ah yes, "Engines of Destiny", wasn't it?

Hrm...maybe kill P.E. Trudeau before he ran for office? :D I'll have to ponder that one some more.

Brachina

Yeah that would be a good one. I'd change Ed's tactics when it was looking like he'd win and blew it. That would have changed Canada's destiny for the better and alot of the worst things that happened would have been avioded.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

So Ed blew it and caused the disastrous loss. Wow I didn't know that.

Interesting idea that a change of campaign tactics could have made a difference.  I thought it was mostly the ill advised championing of the Charlottetown Accord and the Liberals lying about renegotiating the free trade agreement to make it "fair trade." 

Winston

Brachina wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

I am currently rewatching it on Netflix, already getting near the end of season 6. 

 

 How, I only get Next Generation on Netflelix. Admittedly I haven't check in awhile.

VPN with American IP address...PM me, and I'll tell you how.

cco

Robyn Doolittle says councillors are turning their backs on Ford as he speaks. I believe we have footage from the floor. (And as with Ford, it ends with his brother being the last to do so.)

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Harsh, bro.

Sineed

I took the kids to see Wrath of Khan in an actual movie theatre this summer!! During the opening credits when the starscape is rushing past, my 18 year old turns to me and whispers, "Screen saver!" They ended up enjoying the the movie, saying it was darker and more frightening than they expected. Though the special effects were "cute." When I explained how they did special effects back in the day, bluescreens and models, they were impressed.

Winston

You know, watching the Justin Trudeau fanboys and fangirls kind of reminds of me of the Borg drones in Star Trek: First Contact. In general, they will arrogantly and mindlessly ignore you and go about their business, as long as they see you as no threat. But as soon you attack their dear collective, they will viciously attack you.

The mindless determination of Justin Trudeau supporters to require us all to "just get him elected and worry about the details later" has an air of Borg assimilation about it. 

Much as in First Contact, where the Borg is trying to destroy Zephram Cochrane's chances of conducting warp flight and advancing humanity, the Liberal Borg collective is trying to sabotage our chances of replacing Stephen Harper with an NDP government. For example, whenever Stephen Harper is on the ropes, they change the channel by talking about pot or "ladies nights" or China.

Speaking of China... enough said.

Just to be clear, however, while I compare Trudeau supporters to the hive mind, I am in no way comparing Justin to the Borg Queen. She has a level of intelligence and sheer coolness that Justin could never achieve...

 

Sineed

The Ferengi are Conservatives, obviously.

oldgoat

Gosh, three pages and no one has mentioned Neelix!  This is by no means a complaint, just sayin.  Best comparison I could come up with was Gratton O'Leary.  Bit of a stretch, huh?

MegB

oldgoat wrote:

Gosh, three pages and no one has mentioned Neelix!  This is by no means a complaint, just sayin.  Best comparison I could come up with was Gratton O'Leary.  Bit of a stretch, huh?

Prolly because no serious Trekkie would admit to being a Voyager fan. Worst. Star. Trek. Ever. ;)

Brachina

 I think that deadly insult ot Voyager is the single most offensive thing I've read on Babble ;p Voyager is my second favourite after DS9.

 For me it goea DS9, Voyager, Next Generation, Enterprise, the Animated Series, the Original Series, JJ Abramsverse.

 

 PS anyone else hungery for a new star trek series? I hear the Tim Russ, aka Tuvok, is workinh on a star trek pilot he hopes cbs picks up, called Renegades.

Brachina

 I will admit that Voyager did have a few atinkers, like the wierd evolution episode where Tom and Janeway evolve into weird catfish things and have babies was a bad one, but you also had episodes like Warlord which was great.

Winston

Pierre Poilievre is Neelix and, like Tuvok, I want to strangle him! 

theleftyinvestor

I was hoping the entire Conservative governmnent could be like Kes, with a lifetime of only nine years. If they attempt any sort of life-extension treatment, it will result in them travelling back in time throughout their own mandate (VOY: "Before and After"), resulting from an interaction betwen the majority-extension therapy and lingering political ambitions from the coalition attack of 2008. With any luck, an alternate timeline would ensue, where the Conservatives ascended to a higher plane of existence during the fourth year of their mandate, shortly after the arrival of their more popular replacement.

cco

Voyager could've won me over in the end if they'd returned home in the penultimate episode and spent the series finale on Janeway's court-martial.

Brachina, if George Takei's too old to do a Sulu series, I'd love to see one with Worf as the main character.

MegB

theleftyinvestor wrote:

I was hoping the entire Conservative governmnent could be like Kes, with a lifetime of only nine years. If they attempt any sort of life-extension treatment, it will result in them travelling back in time throughout their own mandate (VOY: "Before and After"), resulting from an interaction betwen the majority-extension therapy and lingering political ambitions from the coalition attack of 2008. With any luck, an alternate timeline would ensue, where the Conservatives ascended to a higher plane of existence during the fourth year of their mandate, shortly after the arrival of their more popular replacement.

This actually made me laugh out loud :D

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