Thomas Mulcair's support for Israel 2

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Michelle

Sure, if Topp had previously led a sustained attack along with the two opposition parties on a colleague for taking a progressive stand on the issue, and had made it clear that he felt that criticism of Israel = anti-semitism.  Then yes, definitely, such a quote within that context would be worrying indeed.

Hunky_Monkey

Michelle wrote:

Sure, if Topp had previously led a sustained attack along with the two opposition parties on a colleague for taking a progressive stand on the issue, and had made it clear that he felt that criticism of Israel = anti-semitism.  Then yes, definitely, such a quote within that context would be worrying indeed.

Michelle... Mulcair made one comment about it regarding her role as deputy leader. Not a "sustained attack".

Hunky_Monkey

Michelle wrote:

I find the endless horse race threads too boring to follow all that closely, to tell you the truth, Hunky.  I was commenting on a specific question asked of Mulcair on an issue that interests me, and the way he deflected the question by invoking Jack's name for no particular reason other than distraction.  And then I said that it reminded me of oldgoat's funny comment about him during the first debate.

You're right, Mulcair isn't alone in NDP circles when it comes to gratuitous references to Jack (although we certainly noticed him doing it way more than others were during that first debate).  It's becoming a bit of an eye-roller for me when anyone does it.  But this thread is about a topic I'm actually interested in, and about a candidate who holds views on that topic that I find questionable at best.  I reserve the right to read and comment in threads that interest me, without feeling obligated to wade through 10,000 posts in the horse race threads that bore me to tears.

I was just making the point that it isn't just Mulcair.

And maybe Tom realizes that he'll get attacked for saying the same things Jack said... that just because he's Tom Mulcair it's perceived differently... and feels a need to attach Jack to it :)

Michelle

Actually, it WAS a sustained attack.  He led an attack on Libby Davies that the Opposition parties carried on for over a week in the House of Commons and he had nothing supportive to say about his colleague that whole time or ever since - instead, he dumped on her in the media.

And the mess that he started in the media is what triggered an even more sustained attack by pro-Apartheid trolls on Libby through social media for weeks on end.  She was attacked with vicious, homophobic, sexist attacks for weeks on Facebook, Twitter, and by e-mail because of the media shitstorm that Mulcair started against her, and not once did he say anything supportive to her or about her afterwards, and never has he apologized for his part in that mess.

I haven't forgotten.  I won't forget, and I won't shut up, no matter how many supporters like you try to minimize and sweep his actions under the rug.  And if he becomes leader, I will be strongly disinclined to vote NDP as long as he is leading the party, unless he makes some pretty concrete amends for what he did.

Hunky_Monkey

I bet you would have loved to be in on that conversation between Jack and the Israeli Ambassador? And somehow that was leaked to the media...

As deputy leader, he essentially said it was wrong for Libby to freelance on the issue since she was also a deputy leader. It was one comment.

If it had been someone else who went off message like that, say Pat Martin, I'm sure no one would have batted an eyelash over it.

Michelle

She wasn't "freelancing" on NDP policy, but you go ahead and keep spinning the Mulcair line on it - makes my mind up even more firmly that if Mulcair wins, it will be a pretty sad day.

In the video, she clearly said that it is not party policy to support BDS, and she's not even sure she's there yet, but she would like to see a space open up politically for more discussion on the issue without people being intimidated into silence. 

That's what she said in the video.  And no, I would have no problem with Pat Martin or any other MP saying the same thing - in fact, I'd love it if more people spoke as openly and truthfully as Libby did on the issue.

I also don't think Jack was Jesus Christ, and I didn't like the way he ran to the Israeli Ambassador either.  But he didn't lead the attack on Libby - Mulcair did, along with Rae, Harper, and Garneau.  Jack was trying to do damage control after one of his deputy leaders attacked the other.  He did it really badly, and I wasn't impressed.  But Mulcair was the one who started it.  And he hasn't shown the slightest bit of remorse since, nor did he show the slightest bit of support towards his colleague during the House of Commons, mainstream media, and social media shitstorm that happened afterwards to her.

Hunky_Monkey

We'll just keep going in circles on this as before. But as deputy leader, Libby has responsibilty not to go off script... and that was the issue. He didn't call for her to resign, didn't call her anti-semetic, etc.

Michelle

She didn't go "off script".  She made it clear that she was talking about her personal views, not party policy, and that she just wants political space to open up for discussion instead of people being intimidated into silence.  That doesn't in any way contradict NDP policy, unless it is now NDP policy that no one is allowed to discuss the issue or wish for political space for discussion of the issue.

Mulcair attacked her in the media, and said not a word in support of her when his attack on her led to sustained attacks from opposition parties and the media.  He threw a colleague under the bus in order to demonstrate that he is "an ardent supporter of Israel in all situations and all circumstances". 

(By the way, would that quote by Mulcair be "off script" or is it NDP policy to be "an ardent supporter of Israel in all situations and all circumstances"?)

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Michelle wrote:
I reserve the right to read and comment in threads that interest me, without feeling obligated to wade through 10,000 posts in the horse race threads that bore me to tears.

I don't see why you have to rub it in, Michelle. What a terribly low blow.

Hunky_Monkey

So, if a leading MP said "I don't like abortion. I oppose abortion. That's not party policy, it's my personal views"... that wouldn't be an issue? Imagine if that came out of the mouth of someone like Pat Martin.

And I love how you automatically connect these invisible dots... Big Bad Tom kicked down the first domino and the attack followed all because of Big Bad Tom. Right.

Anyway, from what I understand, this is water under the bridge between them.

wage zombie

Strangely, that's what Dewar supporters are saying about his French.  Nothing to see here, just water under the bridge.

We'll keep going around in circles if we talk about Dear's French.  Better talk about something else instead.

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

Catchfire wrote:

Michelle wrote:
I reserve the right to read and comment in threads that interest me, without feeling obligated to wade through 10,000 posts in the horse race threads that bore me to tears.

I don't see why you have to rub it in, Michelle. What a terribly low blow.

Belly laugh of the week. MEH!

Michelle

Wow, Hunky.  So, now you're comparing what Libby said on the video to making anti-feminist statements against abortion?

Libby wishing for political space to open up to discuss Palestinian rights activism is the same thing as taking a public stand against abortion?

Incredible.  Keep digging.

Hunky_Monkey

Michelle wrote:

Wow, Hunky.  So, now you're comparing what Libby said on the video to making anti-feminist statements against abortion?

Libby wishing for political space to open up to discuss Palestinian rights activism is the same thing as taking a public stand against abortion?

Incredible.  Keep digging.

I used it as an example of saying something other than party policy.

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

Get used to it Michelle. Hunky seems very hunkered down. Obfuscation is hir expertise.

Michelle

Yeah, the difference being that standing up for the oppressed is a progressive stand to take, and being against abortion is not.

But, you know, other than that, exactly the same thing, right?

Hunky_Monkey

*eyeroll*

Enough said.

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Hey look! 100+ posts!

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