Universal pharmacare in Canada

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Sean in Ottawa

I am very much in favour of amalgamation of unions in the current context. It is the extension of what a union is-- by coming together we are stronger.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

I am very much in favour of amalgamation of unions in the current context. It is the extension of what a union is-- by coming together we are stronger.

The nurses raids are the opposite of what you just said you support.

jerrym

Having used the classic divide and conquer strategy, and "trampled on due process" (centre-right journalist Vaughn Palmer), do you seriously think the BC Liberals won't use the same approach when convenient on the BCNU? How long before their cry during another election is we have to cut back those overpaid nurses with their pensions and perks - afterall, non-union workers, the civil servants, the private sector unions, the teachers, and even other hospital workers have already faced the music? How much due process will the nurses get in legislated settlements and the carving out of union membership when they have already run roughshod over it in this case?

Sean in Ottawa

I did not support raiding. I said you need to understand the context and what they were facing. That is another point.

Where did I say you could trust the BC Liberals about anything?

The ongoing fight between unions is more helpful to a government like that than anything else.

Understanding comes before agreement and is the first step to peace.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

They are still raiding the HEU in contracts they didn't get in the latest round and they are also raiding the HSA as we speak.  Yes peace is the first step. Hard though to extend an olive branch to someone holding a bloody knife and threatening you with it.

I know the context and for someone who has no connection to the players and lives in Ottawa you seem to think you know everything about this story. Why is that? I know that after the first BC Liberal win Debra McPherson had meetings with Campbell at the same time as the health care unions were meeting to forge a united front against the coming storm.  She sold out and that is the context of the story with her and her union. She is an elitist whose actions show that she agreed with the government that many HEU members were over paid and that is why her members did not make more.

Quote:

In late November, BCNU filed multiple raid applications attempting to represent HEU LPN's in affiliate sites covered by the Facilities agreement.

These are mostly long-term care facilities but the application also includes St. Joseph's Hospital in Comox and sites within the Provincial Health Services Authority.

The Ministry of Labour has appointed an industrial relations officer to investigate each individual application and report back to the Labour Board. The applications are generally for very small groups of LPN's carved out of the rest of the HEU team at each individual worksite.

Once the IRO reports to the Labour Relations Board on BCNU's applications, legal issues will be discussed and votes may be ordered at sites where BCNU has signed 51 per cent of LPNs.

BCNU also made raid applications for health care workers represented by the Health Sciences Association, the B.C. Government and Service Employees' Union and the International Union of Operating Engineers at a number of sites across the province. 

Because of its continuing raids on other unions, BCNU can no longer take part in the activities of the B.C. Federation of Labour, the Canadian Labour Congress and the Canadian Federation of Nurses Unions.

http://www.heu.org/lpnsinfo

Roystonbones

I don't see the BC Government coming after nurses. Even if they did  I doubt it would not be a vicious attack like it has been on other unions. The nurses have a lot of power in the workplace and in the province, akin to doctors, and they support the BC Lieberals

In order for the LPN's to be put into the nurses bargianing unit (NBA) it required legislation. The legislation was enacted the day before the writ was dropped. Debra McPherson said the lieberals better pass it or the nurses would not support them in the election. Guess who the nurses supported?

The BCN (I no longer put the U beside thier name because they do not know the meaniing of solidarity) is also raiding the HSA, the BCGEU, IUOE and CUPE. How does raiding provide better care. Debra McPherson has over the years denigrated all other healthcare workers, including LPNS. However, she  has also  said that BCN should be the Union in healthcare. The raid continues and will not stop with the LPNs. It is wrong and always has been.

 

Roystonbones

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

The BCNU certainly was faced with a very difficult financial situation as work was proposed to be moved from their union to another in the same workplace. The threat was real and they took it seriously. They also have been strong health care and health system advocates.

There was no work being moved out of the nurses union to other unions.

Sean in Ottawa

Roystonbones wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

The BCNU certainly was faced with a very difficult financial situation as work was proposed to be moved from their union to another in the same workplace. The threat was real and they took it seriously. They also have been strong health care and health system advocates.

There was no work being moved out of the nurses union to other unions.

They were reducing RNs positions and increasing LPN positions.

Kropotkin-- I did have a connection from where I saw much of this unfold.  I am stating that I have no connection now and have no reason to defend one over the other. But yes, I was in a position to be aware and interested in this even though my position did not lead me to have a reason to support one over the other. There is a lot more in details that I don't know based on the perspective I had but the background context I am speaking about has a place and is real and that is what I limited my comments to.

There are reasons I am not going into too much detail and they have nothing to do with BCNU.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Royston is right that not a single nurse was being laid off.  Compare that to the privatization and decimation of good paying jobs held mostly by women that the HEU faced and frankly the nurse's complaints are miniscule and not a sufficient reason to attack other unions.  Add in the fact that in the last raid campaign they used lies and half truths to convince LPN's to switch unions and the BCNu does not come across as a champion of anything except its own narrow self interest.

All unions in BC's health care sector support universal pharmacare. If you had been inclusive about who advocates on behalf of public services we would not have gotten onto this thread drift. But I would not let the most right wing union in health care in this province be awarded the prize for progressiveness without saying something. If you had spoken about unions and not claimed all the glory for the NURSES union no one would have corrected you.

Sean in Ottawa

No layoffs? Not true. Read here:

http://memebee.com/vancouver/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16301

You can use google to find more -- this is just one example. And -- this is all over the country as well.

 

I did not say only nurses. I was more aware of what nurses do.I stand by the fact that nurses are strong defenders of health care-- also you were the one to bring this to a provincial level-- I was speaking in general and nationally.

You could simply have added what other unions do.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Quote:

However McPherson said that because of the cuts, only 20 per cent of that care will be provided by professionals, or 40 minutes per day.

Renee Kennedy, a nurse at Peace Arch Hospital, said that since January, 10 RNs have been laid off and replaced with licensed practical nurses and nurse aides.

“It’s overwhelming,” Kennedy said. “It’s just a very frightening situation.”

My understanding is that in BC nurse positions have been reduced but since there is a shortage all or almost all of the nurses got reassigned and they didn't lose their livelihood.  Note the "Union" that is raiding to get LPN's think its frightening that unprofessional people like LPN's would be hired to do work that doesn't really require an RN. 

The BNU is raiding for money and no other reason. Unfortunately the LPN's may end up ruing the day they bought the lies of an organization that thinks they are not professionals but second class workers. Debra McPherson is an elitist who has nothing but disdain for anyone worker in the health care system that is not an RN or a God.

Sean in Ottawa

Hey where is your proof that she was talking about LPNs?

Nurses are being replaced with non regulated nurses-- not RNs and not LPNs in many places. In Long Term care this has become very common.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

In long term care we need more well trained care aides and LPN's that are paid a living wage not more RN's. Advocating for more nurses when other types of workers are what is needed is what used to be called feather bedding.

I'm done with this thread drift. My family has been fighting the BC Liberal agenda in health care for a decade now. We have seen friends get fired during privatization and their lives destroyed, thousands of families lost their living wage jobs.

I have never believed that the enemy of my enemy is my friend but I do believe that the ally of my enemy is my enemy.

 

 

Sean in Ottawa

The evidence is not on your side in this-- you need both more RNs and more LPNs in long term care-- makes a difference to mortality and other adverse events.

Of course I agree that all workers should be paid a living wage-- that is not the point here.

The BCNU and the Liberal government are not allies. Seeing both as enemies may make you think so but it does not make it true.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

The BCNU and the Liberal government are not allies. Seeing both as enemies may make you think so but it does not make it true.

They are and that is something that even the MSM in BC understands as is apparent from the article above that another poster posted. So yes indeed it is true even if you can't see it from your lofty position on the other side of the continent.

We need more workers of all kinds in long term care but I still don't get how that excuses an attack on other unions. You are mixing too different things, the raids and the underfunding of health care.

Sean in Ottawa

I like you. But you are also mixing things here. I was explainging context. I was not excusing tactics. I think you start with understanding and having a more complete context. I did not excuse BCNU as it is not my place to do so. I did introduce some context to explain why they did what they did and that government and employer meddling in models of care is part of this story that is not getting out.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

I was also explaining the context.  Your explanation of why the BCNU is raiding is not credible to me. The HEU has lost the most members as a result of the government policies but that does not mean I would support them trying to raid other unions to increase their bottom line. I believe the BCNU is raiding for dues money not to improve the health care system or even to improve the LPN's terms and conditions. Lies and half truths were required to win the LPN's over to the BCNU and that says it all.

onlinediscountanvils

Let's do this already!

Canadian Medical Association Journal:

Background: With the exception of Canada, all countries with universal health insurance systems provide universal coverage of prescription drugs. Progress toward universal public drug coverage in Canada has been slow, in part because of concerns about the potential costs. We sought to estimate the cost of implementing universal public coverage of prescription drugs in Canada.

[...]

Results: Universal public drug coverage would reduce total spending on prescription drugs in Canada by $7.3 billion (worst-case scenario $4.2 billion, best-case scenario $9.4 billion). The private sector would save $8.2 billion (worst-case scenario $6.6 billion, best-case scenario $9.6 billion), whereas costs to government would increase by about $1.0 billion (worst-case scenario $5.4 billion net increase, best-case scenario $2.9 billion net savings). Most of the projected increase in government costs would arise from a small number of drug classes.

Interpretation: The long-term barrier to the implementation of universal pharmacare owing to its perceived costs appears to be unjustified. Universal public drug coverage would likely yield substantial savings to the private sector with comparatively little increase in costs to government.

http://www.cmaj.ca/site/press/cmaj.141564.pdf

Unionist

jerrym wrote:

Unionist wrote:

Quote:
 

 when I first started on this board, I had to face ignoramuses that judged a union by which party it supposedly supported electorally, rather than by where it stood and how it fought. 

 

Can you please make your arguments with engaging in personal attacks? I don't care whether I am included in the group or not. I don't like it and it is totally unnecessary. If your arguments are better, then you might convince them to change their mind. I have never seen anyone change their mind because of name-calling. Of course you know this. You are simply trying to intimidate others from saying something different than what you believe. 

 

 

Gee, I just noticed this over-the-top comical remark. I "personally" attacked no one. I simply recounted my experience when I first joined babble - and yeah, I still maintain that anyone who judges a workers' organization by which political party it supports is an ignoramus, and I'm being generous. Oh, and those who feel targeted by simple truths like that... there's a "if the shoe fits" proverb which may be in order.

 

Unionist

onlinediscountanvils wrote:

Let's do this already!

Yeah, that was a great news report to hear today - and it confirms what Québec Solidaire has been saying and promoting for years.

NorthReport

Yet Another Case for Universal Pharmacare

We're paying more than we need to, new study finds. Now, who'll make this an election issue?

 

http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2015/03/16/Universal-Pharmacare/

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