Western Alienation Prise Deux

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Aristotleded24
Western Alienation Prise Deux

With the Harper government apparently on its way out, the coalition that gave rise to the Conservative Party is in danger of falling apart.

One element of this coalition was the Reform Party. They were elected on a platform of "The West Wants In." People complain that the only way to get influence federally is to pander to Ontario and Quebec. There was a great deal of grumbling when Reform began the process of amalgamating, first in forming the Alliance then with their takeover of the PC Party. Some people were upset with Quebec for blocking a Harper majority. Well, now that this coaltion is set to happen, especially with the involvement of the Bloc, that will seem to confirm their worst inclinations. True, a vote split out west might open room for the NDP and even the possibility of taking a few more Alberta seats as the Conservative's western support base crumbles. My main concern is that Reform II comes back in a repeat of 1993, and should this happen, they will be quite nasty.

That's a concern. So, paging fellow Western Canadians, how do we prevent this from happening?

genstrike

Not much you can do really.  These people are there, and will always be angry that they don't get their way because some of their views are unpopular in the rest of Canada and the rest of Canada generally out-votes them.

I'm not sure I would mind seeing a reform split again.  It might weaken the grip some horrendous Winnipeg MPs have on their seats.  Even if they are replaced by low-quality Liberals, I would be perfectly happy to see Steven Fletcher and Rod Bruinooge thrown out on their asses. Also, it would put some of the far-right bullshit out front where the public can get a good whiff of it.

V. Jara

I don't think there will be a split. If anything, this will harden attitudes.

The key to undoing this Western alienation spell is to kick the Conservatives when their down. Make a circus out of how badly they mismanaged government. Make a circus out of how little they achieved for Westerners, then rub it in by re-jigging equalization to give a better deal to Alberta or build some gaudy yet popular infrastructure right in the Conservative heartlands of Alberta. With natural resource prices down, Conservative strongholds will be hard up for some cash. Make sure the government that gives it to them does so in a way that leaves a lasting good impression.

Aristotleded24

V. Jara wrote:
Make a circus out of how little they achieved for Westerners, then rub it in by re-jigging equalization to give a better deal to Alberta or build some gaudy yet popular infrastructure right in the Conservative heartlands of Alberta.

Like the LRT systems in Calgary and Edmonton? I remember when Layton made his public announcement on the TTC, and I thought, "instead of confirming the image of being a 'Toronto-centric party,' why not make that announcement in Calgary to not only challenge the Conservatives but make the case that the NDP will work for everyone?"

George Victor

Last time I looked (a couple of days back) western Canada represented by Alberta and Saskatchewan are still enjoying high employment and their Christmas stockings will be filled.

I would think that they are in a self-congratulatory mood that will exist as long as they maintain this superior economic position.

As for the social conservatives...they prosper only when the above does not hold.

What we should be discussing here is how to make use of increasing  eastern alienation - look around at what is happening this weekend. See any western involvement outside of reaction?

You worry already about their "hardening attitudes" apres le deluge?

Christ!

 

Ratbert

The West is doing just fine economically at present. Delayed projects mean a longer timeframe that deflates an overheated economy. It allows infrastructure to catch up and makes living costs more affordable.

The problem for the West is a coalition government with one seat in each of Saskatchewan and Alberta and six in BC, all of which are in urban areas. The Liberals and NDP have no hope of succeeding without the Bloc and the Bloc has no interest in governing, only an increased slice of Canada's GDP for Quebec.

If Quebec increases its share of GDP by increased productivity, fine. If they increase it by extortioning it from the ROC via support for the coalition, how will this price be paid?

Westerners rightly assume that the price will be paid by the west because the coalition has nothing to lose by screwing the west. For this reason, I suggest that an election is the ONLY fair method of resolving this crisis.

Ratbert

bush is gone happy happy happy wrote:

Quote:
If Quebec increases its share of GDP by increased productivity, fine. If they increase it by extortioning it from the ROC via support for the coalition, how will this price be paid? 

worth every penny. 

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why is it that polling booths look like cattle chutes?

Thank you M. Trudeau

bush is gone ha...

Quote:
If Quebec increases its share of GDP by increased productivity, fine. If they increase it by extortioning it from the ROC via support for the coalition, how will this price be paid? 

worth every penny. 

 

Don't forget that a Western province like Alberta is resource rich and have been able to keep a good portion of the revenues within it's borders. 

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why is it that polling booths look like cattle chutes?

Adam T

Hopefully the coalition will persue proportional representation.

Vansterdam Kid

I don't think this will lead to more Western alienation, but if the coalition moves on environmental issues, the Conservatives will probably argue that it will. They'll probably call Linda Duncan a sell out or something, if she gets into cabinet, especially if she's the Environment, or Natural Resources Minister. We will then hear how some sort of carbon tax, or cap and trade, policy is "hurting" Alberta, and therefore the west...since Alberta is always the stand in for "the West" for reformatory types, despite the fact that they aren't even a 1/3rd of the west's population, or even the biggest province in the west.

George Victor

The western situation now as reported by Ratbert:

"The West is doing just fine economically at present. Delayed projects mean a longer timeframe that deflates an overheated economy. It allows infrastructure to catch up and makes living costs more affordable.  "

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The West has been "doing just fine" for some time now. 

But this "alienated" Easterner has been watching the sale of oil and natural gas to the U.S. drive up the Canadian dollar  - now known as a "petrodollar" -  and manufactured products here becoming uncompetitive as a result.

But even with the world by the ass, you whine, about things past, and with undertones of  the  francophobe. Trudeau still rankles and drives a hatred, decades later.

And then there's the nasty eastern banker, and railway and all the rest out of a century and a half of western alienation. 

Methinks you  protest too much. And far, far too long.

 

 

peskyfly1

     The west isn't doing fine economically.  Major corporations like Husky (cut its' capital budget by 50%) just haven't told the public yet.  There's going to be chaos in the patch.  Unemployment in the west is going to hit hard in 2009 and with so many people indebted beyond what their means, it's going to get crazy out there. 

     And what will the conservatives offer as policy solutions?  Sell assets at discount rates to political supporters?  As if anyone believes that buying high and selling low is good policy.  Cut taxes?  That's the conservative mantra right down to believing that tax cuts on piano lessons will create more concert pianists.  Pray?  Maybe the sky god will respond.  Maybe not.

    

bagkitty bagkitty's picture

I think it would be valuable while arguing for PR to accurate reflect the vote by party, we also discuss the importance of rep by pop in the lower house. If accomodations are to be made for the twee maritime provinces, do it in the Senate. Even the old Reformers would pay attention to this... is there really a justification (other than the dead weight of confederation-era agreements) for the grotesque differences in riding size across this country? Defuse the argument by making it ours.

remind remind's picture

The west isn't doing just fine, people in BC, especially in the north are hanging on by their finger nails.  Meanwhile it is December first, and the ground here in the Rockies is not even frozen, and we had rain today. The pine beetles are spreading further south and east and not a damn thing is being done by Harper for the environment and the catastrophe facing BC. It has come to the point that I really believe he believes the world is going end shortly, so why do anything.

___________________________________________________________

"watching the tide roll away"

Ratbert

George Victor wrote:

The western situation now as reported by Ratbert:

"The West is doing just fine economically at present. Delayed projects mean a longer timeframe that deflates an overheated economy. It allows infrastructure to catch up and makes living costs more affordable.  "

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

The West has been "doing just fine" for some time now. 

But this "alienated" Easterner has been watching the sale of oil and natural gas to the U.S. drive up the Canadian dollar  - now known as a "petrodollar" -  and manufactured products here becoming uncompetitive as a result.

But even with the world by the ass, you whine, about things past, and with undertones of  the  francophobe. Trudeau still rankles and drives a hatred, decades later.

And then there's the nasty eastern banker, and railway and all the rest out of a century and a half of western alienation. 

Methinks you  protest too much. And far, far too long.

 

 

 

Ah. Self preservation is now dismissed as whining by our betters in the east? Your words give meaning to our concerns with protecting ourselves from envious easterners. We are much more concerned with guarding against easterners having us "by the ass" (this dubious pleasure has been extended before by one M. Trudeau who we will never forget) than our grip on "the world".

 

V. Jara

I hate to say it, but several Eastern commentators really don't get the Western attitude. Things are going to cool down in the patch, Ratbert is right that it will have some positive consequences, but it will also have a lot of people underemployed or unemployed and rather upset. There will be ripple effects through the economy and if the natural resource prices don't rebound, people in across Western Canada are going to find themselves in a fairly angry malaise. 

The most palpable expressions of Western alienation come in two forms: 1) The notion that the West pays for the East (most prominently epitomized by equalization payments and fancy dancing with the federal-provincial transfer system- ocassionally at the behest of Quebec) 2) That the West's opinion is not respected (when have you ever heard of a policy held up because "the West" didn't like it. Canadian politics is virtually always an Ontario-Quebec game despite the fact that the West sees itself as a viable and important political entity).

 The federal government should try to address these concerns. The most important thing is to make it seem more like the West isn't just getting bilked to the benefit of other provinces. There also needs to be a lot of consultation and investment. This should not happen at the provincial level, because voters do not pay as much attention to the provincial-federal shenanigans as they do to local politics. The government should be signing deals with the mayors of towns and cities in the Conservative heartland. This is where they will get noticed and also where more of the acute needs are expressed. If the government is seen as giving Westerners more value for their tax dollars, then attitudes will soften. If people are given the impression that their opinions and votes will count, then attitudes may change.

V. Jara

P.S. Linda Duncan is no orange wreathed messiah. For those that think so, look up a little known Liberal character named Anne McClellan and all the thanks that she was given.

Stockholm

Anne McClellan was a reactionary monstrosity and a total disgrace to humanity. All she did as cabinet minister was suck up to her donors in the oil patch and try to sabotage any gov't action on climate change. Man people think that if there is one person who is most to blame for Canada having such a dreadful record on global warming its her.

Anne MacLellan = eco-terrorist supreme - YECCCHHH!!!

V. Jara

Hopes were high for Anne McClellan as a constitutional lawyer and U of A prof. I'd agree she was a let down. The most important political lesson about her career though, is she proved beyond any shadow of a doubt that profile does not equal re-election in Tory Alberta.

Aristotleded24

McClellan was elected with the wave that swept the Liberals into power in 1993, and as long as the Liberals were sure to win government, was able to make the argument that she needed to be Alberta's voice in government. I think Duncan will have the advantage as the non-Conservative incumbent. I also say there's nothing to stop more Alberta seats falling from the Conservatives.

ceti ceti's picture

Eastern alienation is a bigger problem. Ontario and Quebec are hurting big time.

Danny Williams recognized this by pledging to support Ontario in the economic downturn. That sense of solidarity, so alien to a permanently peeved, surlish, and resentful West, is worth noting. I am so sick to death about this Western parochialism which blames Ottawa for everything, almost to the point of fostering racial hatred.

thorin_bane

Michel Trudeau died, I don't know what ratbert thinks he did? Hell he may not even have been born when the NEP(which actually benfited westerners before they rewrote the history books.) came about. Please go read how the east and in particular Ontario was paying twice the world price just so we could have the oil exploration. Which I was in favour of as long as we didn't sell it off once the companies became profitable like your con governments recommended.

I don't understand the whole alienation thing at all.  Hell windsor is the asshole of the country we all say canada stops at london. But you rarely hear anything about leaving canada. Although there is the odd talk of a tri county(kent essex lambton) city state.We have a very diverse economy between the 3. For the most part we don't exist on the radar. I wish the mayor of Sania would run for the NDP the guy is very progressive, I think it's Mike Bradley.  

______________________________________________________________________________________
"Everybody's worried about stopping terrorism. Well, there's a really easy way: stop participating in it."
Noam Chomsky

bagkitty bagkitty's picture

George Victor

Your analysis might be taken more seriously if you checked your facts. The University of Alberta is not the source of the Calgary School rantings, it is in fact the University of Calgary and its History, Political Science and Economics departments that acting as the think tank for the right. The University of Alberta is located in Edmonton.

Ratbert

George Victor wrote:
 

 

  but... The East, catering again to Quebec.

Groundhog shit. 

In the short term, the west's energy industry is doing just fine. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081202.wbcsurplus02/BNStory/politics/home Check out this story about BC's natural gas potential. Some of the project delays in the oilsands are based on waiting for commodity prices for steel and such to fall and also to stretch the available supply of an ever aging group of tradespeople. Some relates to payback to Alberta for royalty changes.

In the long term, if prices do not rebound, Canada's trade surplus will suffer significant harm as it is energy prices that keep it in the black.

 

Perhaps the insightful Mr. Victor can direct his energies to explaining where the new coalition plans to extract the funds needed to address their $30 bn stimulus plan

Fidel

Ratbert wrote:
Perhaps the insightful Mr. Victor can direct his energies to explaining where the new coalition plans to extract the funds needed to address their $30 bn stimulus plan

If Ottawa was to raise overall taxation to just the OECD average as a percentage of GDP, they would have another $35 billion dollars to fund necessary and vital program spending. We won't even mention what federal revenues would look like if boosting the same taxation level to the EU-15 average.

Big energy and big banksters have been feasting for a long time, and this is where we're at: on the brink of global recession and Ottawa with nothing saved for a rainy day. Most well paid captains of industry think ahead and build cash reserves for their corporations. If Canada's elected leaders were corporate leaders and performing similarly, they'd have been fired for running things so badly and actually having reduced overall revenues and having reduced investments in workers over the last 28 years. We can rely on selling precious fossil fuels and raw materials and selling off the family jewels and silverware to friends of upper management for only so long. Neoconservative economics are now proven to be unsustainable in the long run.

George Victor

 

Taxes will NOT be raised, anywhere.  The coalition agreed to that.

Horror of horrors, there would be (gasp) deficit spending to dig us out of this finance capital pit.

As Paul Krugman of NYTimes (the Nobel guy) put it yesterday: "But the deficit worrier have it all wrong. Under current conditions, there's no trade-off between what's good in the short run and what's good for the long run; strong fiscal expansion would actually enhance the economy's long-run prospects."

How about the tight-sphinctered fiscal policy a la "Steve"?

Krugman: "The idea that tight fiscal policy when the economy is depressed actually reduces private investment isn't just a hypothetical argument: it's exactly what happened in two important episodes in history." (FDRs now infamous 1937  spending reduction, and Japan, 1996-97).

So you see, bert, Alberta should be glad about what's happening. But you'd better hope than Obama and the environmentally conscious states can  justify holding their nose while importing tar-pit product. I realize your oil has meant a good balance of accounts, but do you think the grandkids will bless your name?

Coalition time government intervention would look like the quarter-century period following the Second World War (now there was a deficit) when government spent to maintain "full" employment.

It was the period well before food banks and homeless sleeping in church basements. Remember that? Twenty years back it changed, eh?

The food banks of Ontario do not know how they will meet the demand...up 13 per cent in Toronto in the last six months BEFORE OCTOBER. Food price increases...baby food up 11 per cent, pasta, up 48 per cent.

Oshawa's needs up 15 per cent. And the increase in human suffering is only beginning to be felt.

But don't worry, yer oil is only down to a three-and-a-half year low. The banks have been financed with public money and  the hard-pressed oil companies will not have to go into hand out mode. Hunger will be limited to the newly dispossessed.

Why does Alberta sound like Appalachia in times like this? Your radio call in shows.  The spin meisters pull the chains and animus is directed not to the source of the pain, but to something called The East. 

Frightening stuff.

 

 

George Victor

v jara:

The most palpable expressions of Western alienation come in two forms: 1) The notion that the West pays for the East (most prominently epitomized by equalization payments and fancy dancing with the federal-provincial transfer system- ocassionally at the behest of Quebec) 2) That the West's opinion is not respected (when have you ever heard of a policy held up because "the West" didn't like it. Canadian politics is virtually always an Ontario-Quebec game despite the fact that the West sees itself as a viable and important political entity).

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Did you ever get to see that flick, Groundhog Day, with Bill Murray experiencing the same events  over and over in some kind of time warp?

Your rendition of political and economic events could have been written by the screenwriter for Groundhog Day. When have I "ever" heard of the West's protests being taken into account? Can you tell me just what the West - and particularly the Oil Patch - has objected to for...let's see...since January of 06? The draconian measures to curb emissions from the tar pits?

Hell, federal tax policy since 1993 has been aimed at keeping the salivating pack out of the West at bay.  The rotting Canadian infrastructure everywhere is a result of nearly two decades of a"lower taxes" chant employing the Reaganite formula born in the California tax revolts of the late 70s.

The University of Calgary has become the centre of such...let's call it "creationist" politics in Canada, held back from openly advocating a complete divorce of government from economic activity only by the minority status of its neo-con representatives in the house. Its frustration and impatience boiled over in a vicious and whacky attempt last Thursday and Friday to silence opinion elsewhere. "Steve" isn't dumb. He was playiing to his trainers at the University of Calgary, but tripped on the footlights.

And, as this thread shows, the collapsing prices for oil and real estate, and shrinking savings, will no doubt be laid at the door of (no, no, not Wall Street and the ingenious, inventive boys of finance, insurance and real estate ) but... The East, catering again to Quebec.

Groundhog shit. 

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(With changes to university named. Can't imagine how "Alberta" came to mind)Embarassed

Ratbert

In the West, a deep sense of betrayal

 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20081203.BCMASON03/TPStory/TPComment/BritishColumbia/

 

It is against that backdrop that British Columbians, and westerners in general, are reacting today to a plan by the Liberals, the New Democratic Party and the Bloc Québécois to kick the Conservatives from office and take over in Ottawa. And the reaction has not been kind.

In all my years listening to the callers who make talk radio in Vancouver such a hit, I have never heard such anger. Of the dozens who phoned in yesterday morning to Bill Good's No. 1-rated talk show on CKNW, calls were running 95 per cent against the coalition.

bekayne

If calls to CKNW meant anything, Stockwell Day would have been Prime Minister the last 8 years. And Bill Vander Zalm would still be Premier.

JeffWells


I thought this was well said, from a new blog, globeandmailwatch:

 

My last letter to the Globe & Mail 

Because doing it this way should be a lot more fun.

Dear Gary Mason,

Contrary to your column today,
it is not true that BC voted 'mostly Tory' in the last election. Steven
Harper won 61% of the seats with well under half the popular vote, and
if Westerners are going to feel alienated about anything that would be
a good place to start.

As I'm sure you know, it is also not true
that talk radio callers are representative of anything other than their
spittle-flecked selves. Is that really the best data you can find?

Over
half of BC and Manitoba voters and almost half of Saskatchewan voters
did not vote for the Tories; even in Alberta, a third did not, and they
managed to elect an NDPer in Edmonton. Are all these people feeling
'betrayed' by the coalition too, or are they thrilled at the prospect
that they might now, albeit indirectly, get a little representation?
Lazy writing like yours today does absolutely nothing to help a
Torontonian like me figure out what is really going on in the West. All
it does is confirm my suspicion that Canadian journalists have a habit
of saying 'the West' when they mean 'loud rural Albertans'
. Thanks for
nothing,

yours sincerely,

Dr. B.

 

http://globeandmailwatch.blogspot.com/2008/12/my-last-letter-to-globe-ma...

 

 

Policywonk

Ratbert wrote:

The problem for the West is a coalition government with one seat in each of Saskatchewan and Alberta and six in BC, all of which are in urban areas. The Liberals and NDP have no hope of succeeding without the Bloc and the Bloc has no interest in governing, only an increased slice of Canada's GDP for Quebec.

Westerners rightly assume that the price will be paid by the west because the coalition has nothing to lose by screwing the west. For this reason, I suggest that an election is the ONLY fair method of resolving this crisis.

Can't count very well can you.  There are 9 NDP and 5 Liberal MPs in BC, plus a Liberal MP in the Yukon and an NDP MP in the Western Arctic. If you hadn't noticed, with the Conservatives in government all three opposition parties hold the balance of power.

Le T Le T's picture

Excellent letter to the Globe.

 

 

"Big energy and big banksters have been feasting for a long time, and
this is where we're at: on the brink of global recession and Ottawa
with nothing saved for a rainy day. Most well paid captains of
industry think ahead and build cash reserves for their corporations. If
Canada's elected leaders were corporate leaders and performing
similarly, they'd have been fired for running things so badly and
actually having reduced overall revenues and having reduced investments
in workers over the last 28 years. We can rely on selling precious
fossil fuels and raw materials and selling off the family jewels and
silverware to friends of upper management for only so long.
Neoconservative economics are now proven to be unsustainable in the
long run."

 

Fidel - Great metaphor (or analogy or whatever the correct literary term is).

Ratbert

Anyone who has filled out a corporate tax return realises that there are many different forms of taxes and offsetting tax credits that put the tax burden whereitis supposedly most affordable.

In this regard, the proponents of reversing $30 bn in corporate tax cuts do not realise that most corporations are small and medium businesses that need profit to expand, not multinational megacorps. denying this corporate tax cut at the same time as credit is denied and margins squeezed will do nothing to help the economy.

Its very interesting that Jack Layton has addressed this issue but that it gets absolutely no media play. Jack realises this concern but does not push it in his speeches. if he did,he may get more support.

Leftists are fixated on wealth redistribution rather than wealth generation. If leftists expended their energies on wealth creation, 'reduced overall revenues and having reduced investments in workers' would be self-correcting but conjuring up social engineering schemes with other peoples' money must be more rewarding to them.

Its also interesting to note that in all the leftist energies directed at the ongoing struggle between capital and labour for a bigger slice of a shrinking pie, it is only the capitalists who need to change, never labourites, who merely need to be given more.

These challenging times need an holistic solution that addresses sustainability through technical advancement, not throwing money at existing models that will merely resusitate the exixting consumption at any cost economy that created this crisis in the first place.

The very real concerns of the west are that any coalition will place parochial political concerns ahead of real change, using the west's wealth to pay for political concerns and creating change by gutting the west's economy on 'environmental concerns'.

Aristotleded24

thorin_bane wrote:
I don't understand the whole alienation thing at all.  Hell windsor is the asshole of the country we all say canada stops at london. But you rarely hear anything about leaving canada. Although there is the odd talk of a tri county(kent essex lambton) city state.We have a very diverse economy between the 3. For the most part we don't exist on the radar. I wish the mayor of Sania would run for the NDP the guy is very progressive, I think it's Mike Bradley.

Every region of Canada has legitimate grievances about how Confederation has worked for them. The problem is that many people within these regions are trying to capitalise on these feelings for personal gain. We saw that with the Bloc Quebecois, Reform Party, and Danny Williams. It's very difficult in this context (and I would agree with the author of the above-cited letter to the G&M) to determine exactly what those grievances are and how to go about constructively addressing them.

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

Ratbert wrote:

Its also interesting to note that in all the leftist energies directed at the ongoing struggle between capital and labour for a bigger slice of a shrinking pie, it is only the capitalists who need to change, never labourites, who merely need to be given more.

The pie has been consistently growing and the "labourites" slice keeps getting smaller while the "capitalists" get fatter.  How aboot some facts dude.

Ratbert

RevolutionPlease wrote:
Ratbert wrote:

Its also interesting to note that in all the leftist energies directed at the ongoing struggle between capital and labour for a bigger slice of a shrinking pie, it is only the capitalists who need to change, never labourites, who merely need to be given more.

The pie has been consistently growing and the "labourites" slice keeps getting smaller while the "capitalists" get fatter.  How aboot some facts dude.

I presume you have been too busy Bogarting that joint in the last year to notice that the pie is gone, the 'capitalists' (including RRSPs and pension plans) busted  and the labourites searching for salvation.

Party on, Dude.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

If that is truly the case(rather than the other possibility, which is that the wealthy have, in fact, hidden the pies) it is solely because those on top finished off the pies by themselves.

The answer is not to give those on the bottom even less of any future pies.

Supply side doesn't work in baking OR economics.

____________________________________
Our Demands Most Moderate are/
We Only Want The World!
-James Connolly

TemporalHominid TemporalHominid's picture

It is a danger to over simplify any one group of people in any one region of Canada.  Dismissing all people from one region as this or that is  lazy thinking.

 Not all Albertans feel alienated, nor do they collectively hate Quebec or the east.  Not all francophone are Sovereignists, and not all people in Quebec are Sovereignists.

I think that some Canadians in Western Canada think that they must play the role of the alienated; they have played the role so long they do not know how to function any other way.  Even when their party of choice becomes the man they still cry foul, and claim they are victims.  This vocal minority influences perception of the west,

Alberta's oil policies have done more to harm this country than the "enemy" in Quebec that some in the west demonise, but some Albertans don't want to hear that.  They are told Quebec is the enemy and they believe it, and don't question playing the roles they are expected to play by those that seek to manipulate them. 

 Another example of some Albertans crying foul and playing victim is in regard to the Metis and First Nations in this province standing up for their right to hunt.

Some Albertans view "others" as threats that are taking something from them.  Albertan jobs, Alberta resources... these things are no more Albertan than the air we breath or the water we use.

 

 

 

 

Aristotleded24

TemporalHominid wrote:

It is a danger to over simplify any one group of people in any one region of Canada.  Dismissing all people from one region as this or that is  lazy thinking.

Not all Albertans feel alienated, nor do they collectively hate Quebec or the east.  Not all francophone are Sovereignists, and not all people in Quebec are Sovereignists.

I think that some Canadians in Western Canada think that they must play the role of the alienated; they have played the role so long they do not know how to function any other way.  Even when their party of choice becomes the man they still cry foul, and claim they are victims.  This vocal minority influences perception of the west,

On the other hand, many Western Canadians are proud of their country, have close contacts in Ontario, Quebec, and the Atlantic regions, yet still feel that current political arrangements do not suit them (and this is not entirely without foundation). The problem is that the only people who are speaking to these concerns are the hard-core Western alienation people.

George Victor

 

They are not "speaking to these concerns," they are exacerbating them by playing to the oil patch employers (and so to the hourly workers of Alberta).

If you follow "bert's" reasoning, the east now just wants to skim off the product of western industry and enterprise. Even as their ducks die, the fish grow feet, and insects gnaw down their forests, criticism of their "industry" is an eastern plot.

Really, it's just that conservatives and employers have the great unread by the ass.  See how it's done by reading Bageant or Drury. Populist poison.