What demands should the Occupy Canada movement focus on?

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Krystalline Kraus Krystalline Kraus's picture
What demands should the Occupy Canada movement focus on?

What demands should the Occupy Canada Movement focus on? Please post your suggestions!

Regions: 
Lachine Scot

-Exclusion of First Nations people from society

-Exclusion of racialized people, immigrants and offspring from society

-Corruption in Canadian politics

 

3 ideas for now! Obviously you can get much more specific with these issues and cite plenty of examples..

milo204

changes to the economic system/free trade deals/etc

FN rights

more democratic political system

environmental justice/tar sands

Afghanistan/military 

wage zombie

Renegotiate free trade deals

youngsocialist

Please include youth issues..

Tommy_Paine

Well, I think they are all youth issues, women's issues, native issues, etc.

Free Trade for example, in relation to youth issues.  It used to be in the olden days that a student could get a very lucrative summer job in a factory.  Surely, the loss of these manufacturing jobs has added to the burden of student debt, has it not?

I would agree that Free Trade with nations that have radically different environmental, labour and human rights laws has got to be reversed. 

I think a lot of the credit issues could be solved with one stone by tying the rate of usury to the prime rate in such a way that it allows credit, but not so much that it leads to the many abuses we see today.

Anti-trust laws like the U.S. used to have.

Endorsing the old Kent Commission on media ownership.  Break up the media conglomerates.

Corruption:  everyone has to be subject to the law, and beneath the law.  No more special people who are above the law.

A limit to the size of corporations.

That corporations are not "persons".

An end to "lobbying".

There is a temptation to get very specific.  I think Occupy Wall Street or Occupy Bay Street should demand things that create a new frame work so people in various identity politics sectors can attain the justice they seek.  I don't think it will succeed if demands start to specifically address all our societal ills at once. 

It's not a way to achieve our ends.  It's a way to achieve our beginings.

radiorahim radiorahim's picture

How about demanding that wages, pensions, employment insurance, social assistance, workers compensation, disability benefits and anything else that I might have missed be indexed to the average increases in salary and bonuses for the top ten CEO's in this country.  Oh...and make them retroactive for let's say...the last thirty years.

And how about writing off the massive student debt while they're at it.

Lachine Scot

I personally disagree with making Free Trade the main focus. Although it can of course be criticized, it's only one part of the oppression faced by working people in our society.. this is a new movement with a fresh feeling and we shouldn't just come up with the same slogans as in Quebec City 10 years ago.

R153N

Demand a new, completely open and accountable government. "Democracy, not Corporatocracy!" as they say. However, demands, marches and protests are a waste of time if they're ignored. It's time to get serious.

Our federal gov't, like others, has long been in thrall to corporate interests such that democracy no longer exists; the system itself is broken, the resulting governments sociopathic. Voting is useless - doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result is called insanity. The Harper Gov't, with its majority from a minority of support, is proving that quickly as they pursue the raping of our national resources for short-term profit at the expense of our children's future. Humanity may go extinct within the next 100 years from an unprecedented rapidly changing climate, with unbridled burning of fossil fuels the sole cause; yet the Harper regime is actively pursuing complete tarsands development, sure to create the worst-case climate-change scenario.  No reasonable, sane Canadian wants this. The Harper regime must fall now, as must any gov't globally not working hard for a livable future. Action must be taken to thwart the daily functioning of our governments until we are heard. There are many great thinkers with ideas on no-growth human-scale economies, and how to form societies in balance with our environment - their ideas must become common knowledge among Canadians. Our nation is ignorant of alternative ways of living well, addicted to a destructive daily existence, relying on corrupt governments to deal with important issues, and corrupt media to keep them enlightened. Canada needs some tough-love to get it back on the right track. This is a revolution. It's happening globally, increasing daily. Free-market unlimited-growth capitalism is ending, unable to cope with a finite world. We can either work to make a better world now, or watch everything we hold dear dissolve to chaos anyway.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

The most effective way to mobilize the greatest number of people for a protest is to pick a single issue that they can agree on, like "Make the rich pay for their own financial crisis, not the rest of us."

The more you try to turn it into a shopping list of grievances, the more you will restrict the range of people who will actively support it, for two main reasons: First, because not everyone agrees on every issue, and second, because foolish people will find excuses to stand on the sidelines and whine because their particular concern is not being placed front and centre by the organizers.

That's not to say that individuals and groups should be discouraged from bringing their own particular slogans and demands to the Occupy Canada protests - quite the contrary. But the focus and appeal of the Occupy Canada movement organizers (which is what I assume Krystalline is asking about) should be a single issue that has broad appeal among the working class.

NDPP

OUT OF LIBYA! OUT OF AFGHANISTAN! OUT OF NATO! NOW!

toronto_radical

M. Spector wrote:

That's not to say that individuals and groups should be discouraged from bringing their own particular slogans and demands to the Occupy Canada protests - quite the contrary. But the focus and appeal of the Occupy Canada movement organizers (which is what I assume Krystalline is asking about) should be a single issue that has broad appeal among the working class.

I agree, the program and demands should be worked out by the participants, I think a lot of people out there are learning great organizing skills by doing this. Always a good sign to say things being laid out for the future. Let's hope they come up with something new and fresh. "The 99%" from Occupy Wall Streeters is pretty good. Let's not turn towards old left cliches. I've seen Trots already coming up with their textbook slogans that they think the occupations need to become "legitimate" in their eyes. I hope the protesters avoid this.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Toronto Star business reporter [url=http://www.thestar.com/business/article/1064574--occupy-toronto-leaderle... Flavelle[/url] provides background to this thread topic:

Quote:
If the movement seems unfocused that’s because organizers says it’s going to be up to “the people” to decide what counts.

At general assemblies, beginning this Friday in a downtown Toronto park and continuing throughout the “occupation,” participants will meet and talk and share their concerns and educate each other.

The theme, if there is one, appears to be corporate greed.

As one Occupy Toronto supporter put it in an email, the Canadian government is in debt, bankers have been allowed to run amok, and the average Canadian is paying the price.

“We the people are tired of living with no hope,” Gregory Kane wrote. “Perhaps the entire protest, the entire “occupy” movement is simply about gaining and spreading knowledge and joy. What else do we have to live for?”

Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture

Lift the Corporate Veil - Make the Rich INDIVIDUALS Pay for Their Own Mistakes

Money mouth

 

Uncle John

Unless the Occupy Canada thing can move to economic action the government is not going to notice.

- Move money from big banks to credit unions

- Boycott 'top 500' companies. Only shop at local businesses.

- Divestiture from equity markets (i.e. sell your stocks)

- Pay off your debts

- Stop working, and do not take jobs of people who have stopped working...

fluidity

i like the 11 'one demands' that Occupy Wall Street made on September 22

here's what they were/are, and some analysis: http://wilderside.wordpress.com/2011/09/22/occupy-wall-street-finally-re...

the only one that might not really fit in Canada is the 'ending American imperialism'

Giniw

Immediate withdrawl of all government intervention in Indigenous politics, removal of the Indian Act, return of all crown land to Indigenous peoples.

Immediate establishment of delegation mechanisms between ridings and MPs. So that MPs are no longer trustees, but are required to carry the democratic mandates of their constitutents, which are decided in mass democratic decision making processes.

Repeal of NAFTA, especially the provisions on Energy.

Immediate suspension of the the extraction and processing of bitumen in the Tar Sands.

Immediate forgiveness of all student debt and a completely switch from loans to bursaries.

Immediate withdrawl and suspension of covert support from operations in Libya, Afganistan, Haiti, Iraq.

Immediate anti-scab legislation

Immediate decriminalization of solidarity strikes

guaranteed income for all

Immediate suspension of canadian mining company operations outside the borders of canada through the freezing of assets

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Uncle John wrote:

- Move money from big banks to credit unions

Where do you imagine credit unions keep their money?

Quote:
- Divestiture from equity markets (i.e. sell your stocks)

Not at today's prices, thanks very much!

Quote:
- Stop working, and do not take jobs of people who have stopped working...

Why not just have done with it and call for mass hunger strikes?

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Gosh, everybody's got such great radical demands for us to march in the streets on! 

Funny how double standards work, though: When babblers suggest these as policy positions for NDP conventions to adopt, they get laughed out of babble as some kind of ultra-leftist crackpots with no sense of political reality!

JDMS.Alistar88 JDMS.Alistar88's picture

- Free Education

To improve society as a whole and to ensure that the standard of living will rise each year offer education to everyone for free. Use the model of education already in the works in Europe, more specifically France. 
Source: Sicko

- Free Basic Needs of Humanity

Make food, water, shelter a free commodity that every human being on the face of the planet needs! This will remove poverty almost single handedly. It has been proven that men, women, and children alike benefit intellectually and physically when the basic needs are met. The way to make this happen is through different types of sustainable agriculture, for example, vertical farming, greenhouse growth, etc.
Source: The Venus Project

there is nothing more that I wish to see than just these two alone being achieved. This will both give people a promising future, and a healthy lifestyle. 

OccupyPeace OccupyPeace's picture

I'd really like to see the Tar Sands as a major issue, or at least represented. I'd like to see the ad campaigns for the tar sands taken off air, they seem so victorious and confident, while lying, or simply not telling the public of that actual impacts on the tar sands, and rarely if ever are activists allowed their opinion on any sort of major new source deemed by the public as influential. But not just the media campaigns with the tar sands, the actual tar sands themselves. While I understand deconstructing the tar sands projects right away would be near impossible and unrealistic, certain steps can be made towards the progression, i.e. tax foreign oil companies that want to produce the sand far more than it's worth extracting, per barrel, and force them out of our country. Environmental laws, which I'm not 100% studied up on, but I feel they should apply here, and that they aren't being taken seriously at all. I'm certain there's laws which the oil companies have broken, and I'd like to see them held accountable, even things such as the thousands of ducks that have been trapped by the tar sands and drown in oil -- and that's just one species plight, there's many other animals around the area suffering because their eco system is being destroyed. The native population situated around the tar sands have been endangered as well, not only culturally but health-wise, as the continued development of the tar sands has seen an increase in cancer, and other diseases in the native communities. 

I think if we follow some of theses ideas, and work towards shutting the tar sands down, it can be done. Cut the losses, put the profit into "greener" more sustainable forms of energy. I'm sure there's even ways to continue extracting the oil with a less damaging methodolgy, i'm not the person to ask, i'm not an environmental student nor an engineer, but someone out there will have ideas and methods. I'm just a concerned human being.

 

by the way, this is just one issue, and an environmental one at that, there's many others, such as the closure of youth shelters across canada and soup kitchens, the fall in crime rate, yet the continued media blitzkrieg of violence, and the opening of new jails all across canada.. is this to suggest they are to be filled? What about the omnibus crime bill just silently passed by the government.. just my two cents. 

 

Giniw

Some additions to my list:

Immediate status for all "illegal" migrants

Complete parity of on the job conditions and rights for non-status workers

Immediate establshment of citizen oversight of the police, without police or former officers.

Immediate end to police investigating police

immediate ban on taser use

removal of the plus 1 use of force mandate

removal of vagrancy laws and the criminalization of pan handling

immediate squatters rights

Right to gender reassignment surgery without gate-keeper doctors

free medical mental and physical health treatment for all including dental

Enshrine right to choose (reproductive justice in constitution)

Free and socialized 24 hour day care for every child

EI overhall to allow more flexibility for workers and better income

2 years of parental leave for each parent with full income

Guaranteed full pension at 55 - with right to work until mentally and physically unable

JDMS.Alistar88 JDMS.Alistar88's picture

M. Spector wrote:

Gosh, everybody's got such great radical demands for us to march in the streets on! 

Funny how double standards work, though: When babblers suggest these as policy positions for NDP conventions to adopt, they get laughed out of babble as some kind of ultra-leftist crackpots with no sense of political reality!

 

In my opinion, from the limited research I have done there is no real tangible purpose for politics. Worrying about who is going to win an election next term is obsurd, especially when they accomplish nothing but plunging the country into more debt and fighting wars that have nothing to do with us. Politics is an arena of hyena's that laugh and lie to make their way to the top. I hold no grudge agianst those who go in with meaning and motivation to change things, but when they betray the will of the people they all become scum.

OccupyPeace OccupyPeace's picture

I also agree with Free Education, though I don't think it could be done right away, we could certainly take steps forward to making it possible... first off, I would guess to freeze the current education rates at where they are, perhaps we could start taxing the larger companies who make more profit more money, and take that money towards education... i think a more literate society leads to a more democratic society... i would also suggest prioritizing where tax dollars go... criminal laws for drug use could be lessened.. not to turn this into a "marijuana legalization" debate, but stopping mandatory rehab for students and other repeat "offenders" of smoking herb could help too... perhaps cease the war on drugs by taking steps towards decriminalization and "harm reduction" as opposed to jail-time, rehabiliation, etc... 

i would also like to see transit systems improved, and more money put into them so that people can afford to actually use the transit systems. they play a vital role in society, i.e. getting people too and from work.. and therefore should be prioritized along with some of the other great ideas people have posted on here ..

 

 

Giniw

M. Spector wrote:

Gosh, everybody's got such great radical demands for us to march in the streets on! 

Funny how double standards work, though: When babblers suggest these as policy positions for NDP conventions to adopt, they get laughed out of babble as some kind of ultra-leftist crackpots with no sense of political reality!

Here in manitoba the Grassroots of the NDP has passed a call for anti-scab/replacement worker legislation since 1978. Including every year of the last decade and no NDP government has ever made it a reality for us here provincially. So, how can we possibly expect the NDP to represent these issues for us. That's the whole point of Occupy(ed) Canada, that its not about voting or parties, its about forcing whomever is in power to deal with the popular demands of citizens for a safe, fair, equal and sustainable future for all peoples, and people.

Governments and parties never provide those things, people and peoples fight for those things. Through blood, sweat, and tears. It happens in the workplaces, homes, and social spheres of our life, as we struggle to take them back one by one, and bring mass democracy to all the spheres of our life. So we have equal control, power, and responsibility for our lives. To be self-determining as  an individual and a people.

That's where I come from when I fight. I'd rather see you at the barricades than the convention floor, compa. Because the working class and our allies have a chance at the barricades. Not in parliament as its currently configured.

SAskguy

As far as i am concerned this movement needs to target that top one percent, that is what makes this global, that is the connection to the rest of the protests around the world, please please go to ohcanadathemovie.com, watch it for free, its an hour and a half long and very dummed down for people like me, but extremely imformative.

Please people, fellow canadians, demand number one needs to be to get rid of the private bank influence and inflitration of our government, our ancestors warned us and we failed to listen this video explains it, you owe it to your children, i know it is a tough concept to grasp, but it needs to be done, if we fail this part than the rest of the demands are completely useless!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gabriel Sinduda

End to corporate limited liability, to be changed to complete liability.

Rescind corporate recognition as "natural persons".

Significant tax levy imposed on large (>25Million) inheritance.

Significant increase in income tax levied on corporations and the top tier of wealth.

Banks nationalized. No more speculation on foreign debts...

Disallow speculation in the housing/real-estate market.

Above just a few of the dream possibliites, but all are moot and null and void because the 1% will not accomodate any of them.

The event on Bay Street starting this October 15th will work only to draw attention to the growing dis-ease but will not and can not bring about any solutions. The only solution is in our own withdrawal and refusal to participate in the system: Examples:

Shop only for NEEDS. Destroy your credit cards.

Commune with your neighbours, share resources, cut down on reliance to the grid (hydro, oil, tel-com, agribusiness, etc.)

Make space in your life for pleasure and time with friends and family. Contribute less to the general labour pool that makes suffering go around.

Cash in your RRSP's--they are fueling misery in the world. Share the wealth.

Volunteer.

Quit the car. Ride a bike. Get in shape. Meet your friends in parks and go for runs together.

ETC.

See you on Bay Street. Please ask all your friends to come out--representation from all walks of life are required to make this effort worthwhile.

Don't expect it to be SCARY...no--it will be FUN and LIGHT and more like a CARNIVAL than a PROTEST.

If anyone tells you there will be a riot ask them to shut up and keep their dreaded miserable imagination to themselves.

:-)

 

SAskguy

dont let the political partys highjack y=this movement, deep into the party the yreally do not care about us, it's true, we have been duped.

robertfeltham

 

an immediate stop to any move to further deregulate the banking industry

stop the XL pipeline now

hold a national referendum regarding continuing the mining of the tar sands within 6 months, grant veto power to affected Native groups to negate this vote  (we can arrive at this process at a later date)

nationalize our petroleum industry, so we can assure that Canadians benefit equally from our bespoiling our land.

demand a move to proportional representation in our parliament

immediately end corporate tax cuts-  ensure that VP's and above including CEO's are taxed at source as are the rest of us, at a rate that reflects on the benefits they gain by living here.

an immediate apology be made to natives for having stolen their land- and we embark on open and real discussion as to how to compensate for this theft.

a rollback to tuition fees, and a guarantee that any who wish, and qualify may attend university without bankrupting their future.

a statement of intent- that the people and government of Canada are committed to bringing peace to the world, and henceforth will provide peacekeeping forces only. unless in defence against an invasion on our soil

knowing how important to the growth of our culture immigration has been, we will reopen our doors.

we will reinstate all funding to women's groups and reaffirm our belief in equality,

we will pass a national day care plan, and anti child poverty law- no child should be living in poverty in this country. 

we will ensure that Natives along with anything mentioned above will be given a true place at the core of our governance- be this a third house- or a parallel senate-  neither of which will ever be elected....

Giniw

Don't assume Canada as a country/state has a legal or ethical right to exist. Most treaties are actually the opposite of what your propose, the negotiations were a discussion of how settlers could join Indigenous society, not natives join our society. Fundamental decolonization needs to make sure the integration goes the approproate way.

WildCanuck WildCanuck's picture

I think we should call attention to North American Integration/the NAU.

Talk about how they're harmonizing security along the border, erecting fences, NAFTA superhighways, deeper integration between Canada/US/Mexico, single currency, etc.

And how they seem to be going about it in the name of business/banking/security/etc with little/no input of the Canadian people.

JMBosch

The Demand is a Process: The Demand Is a Process - YouTube

Also: Minimum wage must be a fully livable wage in the province's most expensive city. (Subsidized by high-income and investment taxes.) End tar sands and frakking. EI should be available to all unable to find a job. Higher student loan offerings and debt forgiveness for those unable to acquire fixed income for extened period. A massive make-work program across as many industries as possible. Provincial healthcare needs to be expanded and cover dental as well. Public transit should be actuall OWNED by the public and free for all, otherwise it is a disproportionate tax on the poor and environmentally conscious. Corporate salary caps. Massive electoral reforms. (Direct or "Cloud" Democracy is a much more feasible possibility with current technologies.) Cut military purchases and expenditures drastically. Completely revamp RCMP and PD training, especially for "less-than-lethal weaponry." Immediate prosecution for officials that allowed the often illegal and rights-violating crackdown on G20 protestors to occur. Immediate end to Canadian support for Israel until it recognizes and dismantles the human rights violations and apartheid state it has created in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Massive transparency and accountability increases in all levels of government and decision-making. Citizen review panels at all levels of government and governmental institutions, operated by citizens from a wide berth of origin, ethnicity, income, gender, and sexuality. Immediate end to political lobbying. 

And there's tons more. So, more importantly, we demand a horizontal, participatory democratic structure and process to replace our current parliamentary elections that allow a minority government held in contempt and dissolved to be immediately re-elected with in a "majority" that is not actually representative of a majority of Canadian citizens.

TakeTheSquareCanada

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TakeTheSquareCanada

I think we need to get everyone in one spot for communication before we can decide demands. We would like a functional discussion forum that includes all Canadians, not just the ones that can get to a large city assembly and be heard. (In addition to, not instead of the Occupy movement.) Then the first thing to decide would be how to make our decisions reality. What we have been asking for is:

1. Greatly increase transparency so we have the information to make governing decisions

2. Allow creation of bills online by citizens, drafted, debated, prioritized and voted on in public by the public.

3. Require online discussion and voting by referendum on all bills.

We also support the Universal Declaration of Human Rights https://www.facebook.com/pages/Take-the-Square-Canada/179698132104089?sk...

and we want to use the Bank of Canada to control our debt: https://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=179698132104089&topic=258

Talk to us on Twitter https://twitter.com/#!/TTSCanada or Facebook https://www.facebook.com/pages/Take-the-Square-Canada/179698132104089

Tommy_Paine

SAskguy wrote:

dont let the political partys highjack y=this movement, deep into the party the yreally do not care about us, it's true, we have been duped.

Good point, andit leads me to observe that this really is the theme behind the "Occupy ---" movement is that it is an indigtment against polical parties.

It used to be that we saw political parties as agents of change, but the very fact that people are in the streets in many nations means that they are not.  That's why some of the more vocal early critics of the "Occupy Wall Street" were Democrats. (or, as they have become known as, "Republicrats") 

Tommy_Paine

Quite a laundry list of ideas. 

And that's a great thing. 

But what needs to be done as some point, is to look at them all and tie them together in a few ideas that allow the issues that those ideas represent to be attacked successfully.

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

M. Spector wrote:
The most effective way to mobilize the greatest number of people for a protest is to pick a single issue that they can agree on, like "Make the rich pay for their own financial crisis, not the rest of us."

The more you try to turn it into a shopping list of grievances, the more you will restrict the range of people who will actively support it...

That's not to say that individuals and groups should be discouraged from bringing their own particular slogans and demands to the Occupy Canada protests - quite the contrary. But the focus and appeal of the Occupy Canada movement organizers...should be a single issue that has broad appeal among the working class.

I just want to emphaszie this post, which just about nails the question in the OP. Also, it's good for Spector's ego to know that some people agree with him.

 

eastnoireast
Catchfire Catchfire's picture

That is a great poster, eastnoireast. Thanks!

gannaganna

First nations rights,
The dangers of the North American Union,
our desperate Environmental reality

janfromthebruce

yes, I really like the poster - it isn't rocket science

Sven Sven's picture

M. Spector wrote:

The most effective way to mobilize the greatest number of people for a protest is to pick a single issue that they can agree on, like "Make the rich pay for their own financial crisis, not the rest of us."

I think that is the best approach.  If everything is a priority, then nothing will get done.

Giniw

Sven wrote:

M. Spector wrote:

The most effective way to mobilize the greatest number of people for a protest is to pick a single issue that they can agree on, like "Make the rich pay for their own financial crisis, not the rest of us."

I think that is the best approach.  If everything is a priority, then nothing will get done.

 

What people are outlining are very important issues to radically alter the system. Scaling it down to one slogan destroys the diversity of demands that we all consider essential to making a better world. We need to revel in plurality and diversity of demands.

Not try to streamline the message so things are made invisible.

I agree that making the rich pay for their crisis is fundamental. But even the Occupy wall street protest had multiple demands. It caught steam, because everyone knows this is bigger than one demand, we have a chance to demand more, so why limit ourselves.

Giniw

I also want to be clear, that solving the colonial situation for First Nations will not come by rights. It will come by destroying the Canadian state's ability to intervene, its not a policy change that is needed by itself, we also need to make canada ungovernable when they attempt to do it. Its actually on us to revolt. The existence of Canada is predicated on the Indigenous lack of self-determination.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Sven wrote:

If everything is a priority, then nothing will get done.

That's not what I meant. In fact, everything IS a priority!

Naomi Klein said it best:

The 99 percent is taking to the streets from Madison to Madrid to say “No. We will not pay for your crisis.”

That one slogan sums up dozens of demands!

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

"We’re mad as hell and we’re not going to take this anymore."

gary_reinsch

The focus of the protest should be to have Government support of local industry in bringing their products and services to the local market place at competitive prices, which could also later translate to competitive pricing in the global market place.

 

Let's consider what has happened over the course of recent decades as a result of various trade agreements and the like.  Essentially, this has made it easier for larger corporate businesses, for instance, large retailers, to move across borders and into a greater number of communities - often offering hundreds of jobs to a local community.  However, what if many of the goods that these companies supply are produced in other nations and as part of alternative economies; furthermore, what if the products that fill such a large retailers shelves across all of their locations rely on the central distribution of said products?  A store that creates 300 jobs, could potentially cost 1000's of others based on supply chains alone.  Worse yet, such large companies have the added price advantage of stocking their shelves at discounts that are often provided to volume purchases.  This makes it difficult for smaller retailers that might base much of their business on more localized products to compete at the lower prices offered by the larger competitor.  If and/or when these smaller stores end up closing their doors as a result of their consumers taking their business to the larger retailer where prices are lower - even more jobs could be lost in the greater community.

In addition, the larger company will likely offer jobs with "competitive wages" and compensation, in part because publicly-traded shares rely on both profitability and creditworthiness of the corporation.  After all, wages add to over all operating expenses.  So really, what is a "competitve wage"?  Basically it amounts to a reliance on people competing against their own demographics to provide the required skill set at the lowest cost to a business, while still attracting people to compete for a position.  You'll notice that the benefit of potential employees was not mentioned in that definition.

Meanwhile, as this sort of company operates in a community, perhaps creating a net loss of jobs in the local economy and also paying employees no more than is necessary, the corporation itself has an ever-increasing profit margin and better creditworthiness.  This is quite different than it's average employee (especially frontline staff) who must continually compete with an ever-increasing rate of inflation that does not truly represent the higher increase to the actual cost of living in most communities - competing while their wages and salaries remain relatively stagnant.  Even those individual incomes that increase based on raises due to inflation continue to lose ground with respect to the purchasing power of a dollar as the actual cost of living grows much larger.  In addition, the money supply, interests rates, borrowing opportunities and many other things will be based (in at least part) on inflation - making each less accurate.  Especially when a possibly decreasing GDP (or lack of substantial growth in GDP) is also considered - affecting the creditworthiness of not only the individuals within the community, but the community and government itself.  As a result, people might continually look to more conservative forms of government that operate under similar guidelines to the larger corporations themselves - cutting spending, etc.  However, as more people might now be reliant on the programs and services that are subject to spending cuts, these required services must now be provided by individuals themselves in a less regulated private sector.  Over all, while the community might be more creditworthy (and attractive to more large investments/corporations) - the individuals that live in the community might now have to rely more heavily on credit and the associated debt just to live.

Of course, we'll be told that the average household income has grown - but this is simply the result of more incomes being earned per household, not a result of individual incomes themselves increasing with any sort of significance.  This also weakens the community over all, as fewer families are able to sit to a family dinner and stress tends to be on the rise, as do the related health concerns and the demands on health care and other systems in order to deal with them.  Remember, that this might be the result of a larger chain that provides less healthy choices for individuals to consume (after all, something like a tomato continues to ripen after it is picked - so each tomato might be picked earlier to be shipped from elsewhere, meaning it only has the nutrients of a younger tomato, too).

If governments were to focus on attracting better employers, rather than larger companies and also focus on allowing locally produced goods better opportunity to compete - everything could be offset.  Whether cost of living, increasing wages to beyond "competitive" and the number of jobs available in their communities.  Of course, we could also start to make our own "smarter" choices as consumers, when we are able.

Giniw

gary_reinsch wrote:

The focus of the protest should be to have Government support of local industry in bringing their products and services to the local market place at competitive prices, which could also later translate to competitive pricing in the global market place.

 

Let's consider what has happened over the course of recent decades as a result of various trade agreements and the like.  Essentially, this has made it easier for larger corporate businesses, for instance, large retailers, to move across borders and into a greater number of communities - often offering hundreds of jobs to a local community.  However, what if many of the goods that these companies supply are produced in other nations and as part of alternative economies; furthermore, what if the products that fill such a large retailers shelves across all of their locations rely on the central distribution of said products?  A store that creates 300 jobs, could potentially cost 1000's of others based on supply chains alone.  Worse yet, such large companies have the added price advantage of stocking their shelves at discounts that are often provided to volume purchases.  This makes it difficult for smaller retailers that might base much of their business on more localized products to compete at the lower prices offered by the larger competitor.  If and/or when these smaller stores end up closing their doors as a result of their consumers taking their business to the larger retailer where prices are lower - even more jobs could be lost in the greater community.

In addition, the larger company will likely offer jobs with "competitive wages" and compensation, in part because publicly-traded shares rely on both profitability and creditworthiness of the corporation.  After all, wages add to over all operating expenses.  So really, what is a "competitve wage"?  Basically it amounts to a reliance on people competing against their own demographics to provide the required skill set at the lowest cost to a business, while still attracting people to compete for a position.  You'll notice that the benefit of potential employees was not mentioned in that definition.

Meanwhile, as this sort of company operates in a community, perhaps creating a net loss of jobs in the local economy and also paying employees no more than is necessary, the corporation itself has an ever-increasing profit margin and better creditworthiness.  This is quite different than it's average employee (especially frontline staff) who must continually compete with an ever-increasing rate of inflation that does not truly represent the higher increase to the actual cost of living in most communities - competing while their wages and salaries remain relatively stagnant.  Even those individual incomes that increase based on raises due to inflation continue to lose ground with respect to the purchasing power of a dollar as the actual cost of living grows much larger.  In addition, the money supply, interests rates, borrowing opportunities and many other things will be based (in at least part) on inflation - making each less accurate.  Especially when a possibly decreasing GDP (or lack of substantial growth in GDP) is also considered - affecting the creditworthiness of not only the individuals within the community, but the community and government itself.  As a result, people might continually look to more conservative forms of government that operate under similar guidelines to the larger corporations themselves - cutting spending, etc.  However, as more people might now be reliant on the programs and services that are subject to spending cuts, these required services must now be provided by individuals themselves in a less regulated private sector.  Over all, while the community might be more creditworthy (and attractive to more large investments/corporations) - the individuals that live in the community might now have to rely more heavily on credit and the associated debt just to live.

Of course, we'll be told that the average household income has grown - but this is simply the result of more incomes being earned per household, not a result of individual incomes themselves increasing with any sort of significance.  This also weakens the community over all, as fewer families are able to sit to a family dinner and stress tends to be on the rise, as do the related health concerns and the demands on health care and other systems in order to deal with them.  Remember, that this might be the result of a larger chain that provides less healthy choices for individuals to consume (after all, something like a tomato continues to ripen after it is picked - so each tomato might be picked earlier to be shipped from elsewhere, meaning it only has the nutrients of a younger tomato, too).

If governments were to focus on attracting better employers, rather than larger companies and also focus on allowing locally produced goods better opportunity to compete - everything could be offset.  Whether cost of living, increasing wages to beyond "competitive" and the number of jobs available in their communities.  Of course, we could also start to make our own "smarter" choices as consumers, when we are able.

 

No thanks. I'm not interested in capitalism-lite. This doesn't solve the problems of exploitation, ecological criss, indigenous self-determination, etc.

gary_reinsch

Giniw wrote:

No thanks. I'm not interested in capitalism-lite. This doesn't solve the problems of exploitation, ecological criss, indigenous self-determination, etc.

Are you sure about that, Giniw?  The problem isn't capitalism, itself, it is in our own shunning of the responsibility of ensuring that we are not simply buying goods and services that allow its current incarnation to take such a foot hold.  If we were to spend our money on the goods and services that were provided by better businesses (in terms of employee treatment and/or community involvement, etc) it would be those businesses that had the greatest success whether in revenues or the open market.

If government was to take an approach that reduced the cost of locally-produced goods through subsidizing supply-chains and their productivity, it would create more employment opportunities locally and also increase the salability of goods to a greater number of consumers.  As such, the consumer base would actually be supporting its own interests - allowing the local economy to flourish and also supporting better companies and employment standards.  All of that, in turn, could sway the open market toward companies that follow similar paths - especially if a greater number of global citizens were to take a similar approach.  Over all, better employment within a community also reduces the amount that need be spent on social programs and the like, on a per capita basis. 

 

JKR

There seems to be a few recurring themes on the We are the 99 Percent website that are also relevent to the situation in Canada:

We Are the 99 Percent

A few of the recurring themes seem to be: 

- Too many low wage jobs/ the inability to make work pay
- Lack of jobs that pay adequate wages
- Huge debt levels from student loans
- Expensive tuition
- Lack of adequate health care
- Working too many hours without overcoming poverty
- Lack of affordable adequate housing
- Great poverty for the many amidst huge wealth for the few
- Capitalism is failing

A lot of people are suffering and finally this is being exposed despite the mainstream media's lack of coverage.

 

One common issue in both the US and Canada is huge student loan debt levels and the inaccesability of post-secondary education. Unfortunately, More and more Canadians are being overwhelmed by huge student loan debt loads while politicians have failed to make this a central issue.

genstrike

gary_reinsch wrote:

Giniw wrote:

No thanks. I'm not interested in capitalism-lite. This doesn't solve the problems of exploitation, ecological criss, indigenous self-determination, etc.

Are you sure about that, Giniw?  The problem isn't capitalism, itself,

Nope.  Actually, the problem is capitalism.

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