What should be the BARE MINIMUM expectations of a Mulcair government?

109 posts / 0 new
Last post
Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture
What should be the BARE MINIMUM expectations of a Mulcair government?

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

I'd say they should be...and these should be ABSOLUTES...

 

1)NO austerity budgets;

2)NO war;

3)NO attacks on civil liberties or the right to protest.

If THOSE things can't be counted on, it simply couldn't be worth ELECTING an NDP government.  Nothing could possibly make up for any of those three points being compromised-if they were, nothing different from a Harper governent could actually happen anyway.

What would anyone else say on this point?

 

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Reversal of the Harper cuts to essential programs. Want a list? Smile

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

That's a good one...and you should post that list so that everyone KNOWS what's been cut.

NDPP

No more thievery of public assets for evil banksters

Banks Got $114 B from Governments During Recession

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2012/04/30/bank-bailout-ccpa.html

"Support for banks more substantial than Canadians were led to believe.."

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Ken Burch wrote:

That's a good one...and you should post that list so that everyone KNOWS what's been cut.

A list of Harper government cuts/actions.

Fidel

I would think that if the NDP could restore in four years what was undone by corporate stooges in government in the same amount of time, that would be worthwhile voting for. And the same goes for each successive term in government for the NDP. And there is about 30 year's worth of undoing of social democracy in Ottawa for the NDP to hash through.

And it would probably take the same amount of time to undo what was undone by legislative maneuvering and passing of anti-progressive bills and laws and regulations. What the conservatives and Liberals did took so many man and woman hours in Parliament and so on. The NDP can't be expected to snap their fingers and make it so. We should expect the NDP to reverse the fascism within a reasonable amount of time. It took Tommy and the CCF five terms in government to create a province from scratch. Federally the NDP is looking at creating an entire country from the ashes of three decades worth of failed neoliberal ideology.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

From the thread I linked to:

 

It's time to expect more from our government

 

excerpt:

 

"No opposition party has so far said that they are committed to reversing all the reactionary and destructive actions of this government. Yet this is what we should be demanding of them."

 

Fidel

I'm simply saying that if it takes Steve half an hour to row the boat to the other side of the lake, we might expect Tom to take half an hour to row it back.

Maysie Maysie's picture

Great thread.

Fidel wrote:

I'm simply saying that if it takes Steve half an hour to row the boat to the other side of the lake, we might expect Tom to take half an hour to row it back.

While I agree, Tom and Tom's party have to at least say that they will do this.

Waiting....

Fidel

And I think we will be hearing more from the NDP on what they pledge to do. Patience is a virtue of royalty they say.

Caissa

Exile harper.

Sean in Ottawa

Certainly a change in direction.

Not everything that is being undone can be put back but we should be able to expect replacements for some things that are not repairable and new directions we have not gone before.

I'll add solid steps to make the country more democratic reversing a decades trend to secrecy.

Vansterdam Kid

Concrete steps to reverse the re-direction of public wealth towards the wealthy. So defenetly no new tax cuts for high income earners and large corporations. In fact there should be substantial increases in tax rates and clamping down on tax havens on these groups with the money raised from that action directed towards additional funding for programs and tax cuts to lower and middle income earners.

Unionist

Fidel wrote:

Patience is a virtue of royalty they say.

Patience is a luxury that royalty can afford.

Bare minimum?

Nationalize the PMO.

 

quizzical

immediate action on all aspects of enviromental concern

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Thanks Fidel.  I would be happy to see the NDP follow in Tommy's legislative path. His first term included sweeping changes to the rights of workers.  As a minimum I expect them to restore the rights of working people by overhauling the federal labour laws and the federal employment standards.  We need modern protections against global predatory capital that bullies and blackmails workers and communities.  Those reforms don't even cost anything except political capital.

Quote:

As Premier of Saskatchewan he presided over the birth of public hospitalization and medicare. Through his five terms as Premier, Douglas pioneered reforms which made Saskatchewan society both progressive and prosperous.

More than 100 bills, 72 of them aimed at social or economic reform, were passed during the CCF's first year in power. By the end of two years, they had removed the sales tax from food and meals and managed to reduce the provincial debt by $20 million.

...

 

The CCF introduced the Trade Union Act, which made collective bargaining mandatory and extended the rights of civil servants. The Act was described by Walter Reuther as "the most progressive piece of labour legislation on the continent." Other labour legislation set standards for workers' compensation, minimum wages, mandatory holidays and a labour relations board. Union membership rose 118 per cent in just four years.

Building on the 1944 campaign slogan of Humanity First, the first CCF budget devoted 70 per cent of its expenditures to health, welfare and education. School districts were enlarged to a more efficient size; teachers' salaries were raised; the University of Saskatchewan was expanded to include a medical college.

 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Maysie wrote:

Great thread.

Fidel wrote:

I'm simply saying that if it takes Steve half an hour to row the boat to the other side of the lake, we might expect Tom to take half an hour to row it back.

While I agree, Tom and Tom's party have to at least say that they will do this.

Waiting....

Do you think anyone is going to the polls to elect a government that vows to act so slowly that in 2013 we vow to get back to 2009 and if elected in 2017 we will revert to 2005. Hell to get back to the 1991 banking changes they need to be in government till 2030 something?

quizzical

kropotkin1951 wrote:
The CCF introduced the Trade Union Act, which made collective bargaining mandatory and extended the rights of civil servants. The Act was described by Walter Reuther as "the most progressive piece of labour legislation on the continent." Other labour legislation set standards for workers' compensation, minimum wages, mandatory holidays and a labour relations board. Union membership rose 118 per cent in just four years.

Building on the 1944 campaign slogan of Humanity First, the first CCF budget devoted 70 per cent of its expenditures to health, welfare and education. School districts were enlarged to a more efficient size; teachers' salaries were raised; the University of Saskatchewan was expanded to include a medical college.

 huh!

Slumberjack

The mere hint of an aspiration toward the bare minimum is what people should be looking for.  That way, if some bare minimum were set loose, it'll come as a pleasant surprise.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

quizzical wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

The CCF introduced the Trade Union Act, which made collective bargaining mandatory and extended the rights of civil servants. The Act was described by Walter Reuther as "the most progressive piece of labour legislation on the continent." Other labour legislation set standards for workers' compensation, minimum wages, mandatory holidays and a labour relations board. Union membership rose 118 per cent in just four years.

Building on the 1944 campaign slogan of Humanity First, the first CCF budget devoted 70 per cent of its expenditures to health, welfare and education. School districts were enlarged to a more efficient size; teachers' salaries were raised; the University of Saskatchewan was expanded to include a medical college.

 huh!

Sorry forgot the link.

http://www.dcf.ca/en/tommy_douglas.htm

___________________________________________

Soothsayers had a better record of prediction than economists

Unionist

Nice retort, kropotkin. But face facts. Canada isn't ready for a Tommy Douglas. Let's start simple, with maybe Bob Rae or Ujjal Dosanjh or other similar progressive types. Let's balance budgets and suckhole to foreign investors. Let's show we know how to grow the dough.

The bad guys have rowed to the wrong side of the lake. We have to row our boat gently down the stream. Verily, verily, a better world is but a dream.

 

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Three more years of Harper unless something that changes the game  happens. Even a General Strike might not have the desired effect - but at least it'd show the bastards that we're pissed off.  Frown

KenS

Gee Unionist, Tommy rowed that side of the boat too, AND frequently explained the importance of it.

Unionist

KenS wrote:

Gee Unionist, Tommy rowed that side of the boat too, AND frequently explained the importance of it.

Cool. Paul Martin delivered big surpluses and no recessions. I think we can do a little better. And I know you think so too. This mythology that we'll be thrown out of office forever if we don't behave like neoliberals in our first term is getting a wee bit tiresome. That's why I thought some sarcasm and mockery was in order.

ETA: Oh, did I mention that Harper and Flaherty have delivered nothing but deficits and recession and unemployment and bankruptcies and plant closures... and no one even dreams of saying they're bad economic managers? Someone has to take the mythology by the horns, wrestle it to the ground, and euthanize it. Proving that we're fine responsible bankers is crap. Proving that we will take huge risks to act on the side of the working people and the marginalized sections of the population will win us respect and admiration and supports and votes forever.

 

Fidel

Unionist wrote:

Cool. Paul Martin delivered big surpluses and no recessions.

Bullshit! I should flag this as offensive.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Just wondering, Fidel...what is your reaction to the three requirements I laid out(I agree, much more SHOULD be expected, but I was looking at a worst-come-to-worst situation)?

1)NO austerity budgets;

2)NO war;

3)NO attacks on civil liberties or the right to protest.

You would agree with all three of those...right?

Fidel

That's fine with me, Ken. I was objecting to Unionist's rosy picture of Canada under the Liberals in the 1990s. Industry Canada and economist Pierre Fortin said this about Canada during the lost decade of the 1990s: "During the 1990s Canada's aggregate economic performance has been the worst since the Great Depression, and very nearly the worst among all industrialised countries."

Yes we remember the Liberals and their terrible austerity budget of 1995. Canada basically came to a standstill under the Liberals.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

My post wasn't a response to the exchange between Unionist and yourself, for the record.

Policywonk

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Maysie wrote:

Great thread.

Fidel wrote:

I'm simply saying that if it takes Steve half an hour to row the boat to the other side of the lake, we might expect Tom to take half an hour to row it back.

While I agree, Tom and Tom's party have to at least say that they will do this.

Waiting....

Do you think anyone is going to the polls to elect a government that vows to act so slowly that in 2013 we vow to get back to 2009 and if elected in 2017 we will revert to 2005. Hell to get back to the 1991 banking changes they need to be in government till 2030 something?

I'm not sure the lake analogy is the best one. Harper has thrown away most of the paddles and we are in rapids heading for a waterfall. It may not be possible to go back upstream, but we at least need to avoid going over the waterfall, maybe by finding an eddy. I think the idea is to find an alternative course that works better than what we had in 2005. If we try to go back to where we were we will not be addressing the real problems.

Fidel

Yes I think we've lost hundreds of thousands of jobs that won't be coming back. They've replaced a lot of prosperous full-time jobs with lower paid non-unionized jobs, part-time and seasonal work. Somewhere more than $6 billion in wages have been sucked out of Ontario's economy alone. And the banks and foreign creditors have latched on for the ride. They would like very much to do to Ontario what they are trying to pull on Greece, Ireland, Iceland and so on. 

KenS

I know we can do more Unionist, and should say so.

I'm registering a beef [again] with the tendency to treat even inclusion of debt and deficit issues as if that is a problem in itself. Rather than the problem being the lack of vision of anything else.

[You stand corrected.]

Fidel

KenS wrote:
I'm registering a beef [again] with the tendency to treat even inclusion of debt and deficit issues as if that is a problem in itself.

Deficits and debt are the neoliberals' modus operandi. Economists have a saying that says: Debts that can not be repaid won't be. 

The creditors don't really want us to pay off debts. What they covet most are Canada's tangible assets: electric power gen-distribution, minerals, oil, roads, public infrastructure, fresh water, sewers, day care, health care services, public education etc. They want their stooges in power to announce firesale selloffs of the common good at some point, like they are trying on for size in Greece, Latvia, Iceland etc and will attempt to do in other European countries before long.

Life, the unive...

Unionist wrote:

Nice retort, kropotkin. But face facts. Canada isn't ready for a Tommy Douglas. Let's start simple, with maybe Bob Rae or Ujjal Dosanjh or other similar progressive types. Let's balance budgets and suckhole to foreign investors. Let's show we know how to grow the dough.

The bad guys have rowed to the wrong side of the lake. We have to row our boat gently down the stream. Verily, verily, a better world is but a dream.

 

Can't believe on a progressive site, that no following poster comments on the use of a homophobic term like suckhole.  As in he's a management suckhole.  Casual homophobia is okay now on babble?

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

"Suckhole" is homophobic?  I thought it was just another term for sinkhole. 

Life, the unive...

Nope.  Some people might use it that way, but that's not how it was used years ago.  "suckhole to foriegn investors"  Try replacing sinkhole in the sentance and you will see it doesn't work.

Fidel

kropotkin1951 wrote:
 Hell to get back to the 1991 banking changes they need to be in government till 2030 something?

 

Not only was the remainder of money supply privatized by 1991, the feds began lowering tax revenues collected by Ottawa. This is another hallmark of federally orchestrated neoliberalism in Canada.

The NDP might raise overall federal tax revs to just the OECD capitalist average as a percentage of GDP. $35 billion more in federal revenues right there. We won't even mention raising them to the EU-15 average much less the socialist Nordic country average. Canada has all kinds of commodities and raw materials to raise revenues that many countries simply do not. I think the NDP could look very good after just one term in government.

We can have fuller employment policies in Canada. We can have well-funded social programs, health care and education. And we can challenge capital by entirely democratic means. It's allowed for right there in the neoliberal financial regime's policy menu for all democratic countries to pursue if they so choose. The problem with weak and ineffective federal governments in Ottawa since Mulroney is that they always choose the capital-friendly items on the policy menu when they don't have to.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Life, the universe, everything wrote:

Nope.  Some people might use it that way, but that's not how it was used years ago.  "suckhole to foriegn investors"  Try replacing sinkhole in the sentance and you will see it doesn't work.

Well, I'd never heard that usage...and while it is useful to know that that meaning exists to the word, you can't assume that the poster you upbraided for using it was aware of that particular meaning.

Your main point is taken, however.

Slumberjack

Ken Burch wrote:
Suckhole" is homophobic?  I thought it was just another term for sinkhole. 

It isn't as far as I can tell.  Oxford describes it as behaving in a sycophantic way.  Kissing ass in other words, for a longer duration than usual.

Slumberjack

Fidel wrote:
Yes we remember the Liberals and their terrible austerity budget of 1995. Canada basically came to a standstill under the Liberals.

I remember that the Liberal years very nearly coincided with the run of the Sopranos television series, both of which shared many similar characteristics.  People were getting confused as to who's episode they were watching on TV.

Unionist

Life, the universe, everything wrote:

Can't believe on a progressive site, that no following poster comments on the use of a homophobic term like suckhole.  As in he's a management suckhole.  Casual homophobia is okay now on babble?

Your typical trolling, baiting comments are coming back to the surface. Like a sinkhole. "Suckhole" isn't homophobic. It's sexual. That's a good thing, Life. Try it sometime. Seriously, it'll change your whole inlook on life.

 

Lou Arab Lou Arab's picture

Fidel wrote:

I'm simply saying that if it takes Steve half an hour to row the boat to the other side of the lake, we might expect Tom to take half an hour to row it back.

You can knock a house down in a day, but it takes a lot longer to re-build it.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Indeed we need to redesign the house not try to repair the irreparable damage to the foundations that Harper's firestorm is causing. The NDP so far is still talking about how to repair the damage to the house as if we had a mild basement flooding instead.  I don't expect them to dream big but I can still dream about them dreaming big even if I know it is not going to happen.

Life, the unive...

Slumberjack wrote:

Ken Burch wrote:
Suckhole" is homophobic?  I thought it was just another term for sinkhole. 

It isn't as far as I can tell.  Oxford describes it as behaving in a sycophantic way.  Kissing ass in other words, for a longer duration than usual.

 

Nice try, but think about it for a second.  "suckhole"  does that really sound like the etymology is 'ass kissing' regardless of duration?  suckhole- I'll wait for the light to go on.

Slumberjack

Nada.  I'm still not getting the connotation in the way you're trying to ascribe it as.  I think the nice try award belongs to you.

Life, the unive...

Unionist wrote:

Life, the universe, everything wrote:

Can't believe on a progressive site, that no following poster comments on the use of a homophobic term like suckhole.  As in he's a management suckhole.  Casual homophobia is okay now on babble?

Your typical trolling, baiting comments are coming back to the surface. Like a sinkhole. "Suckhole" isn't homophobic. It's sexual. That's a good thing, Life. Try it sometime. Seriously, it'll change your whole inlook on life.

 

You see most people would go, 'oh crap didn't realize that was the way that word is used' if it was unintentional.  You are however are admitting you knew where it comes from and are completely unrepentent and attack the person who brings it up.  That sure makes babble a safe place for learning about our hidden bias.  You should try that sometime.  It is in the context used either homophobic, the most common usage for the term or sexist.  You seem to be leaning towards a sexist usage- I guess that is your perogative.  Either way it is wrong on a site like rabble/babble.

And thanks for the personal attack.  You of course will not be cautioned or rebuked for it, while lots of others would be raked over the coals.  That's the real way babble works.   

Life, the unive...

really?  "suckhole", (even Unionist admitted it was a sexual term) and you can't imagine what it is refering too.  You might need to get out more.

Slumberjack

In a sexual context, it may very well be a practice between intimates, but as far as I know, it's certainly not something generally confined to just one persuasion in that regard.  In the non-sexual context, used within a political discourse for example, it means the same thing as ass kisser, brownnoser, or sycophant as several dictionaries refer to, etc.

Life, the unive...

Oh yes a cleaned up dictionary tells us everything we need to know about the origin and use of a word.  A kneeling syncophant maybe, but the rest are just your generous interpretation of the innappropriate use of a word on a site that says it is progressive.  But lets attack the person who highlights something like this, instead of the knowing use of a term.  Pretty typical for around here.

There was a time when this was a fairly common term to describe, in a homophobic way, for instance, workers who had cozied up to management far too much.  I never liked it then and I like it even less now.

bagkitty bagkitty's picture

Well, if the NDP does form the next government, I am going to go way out on a limb and suggest that it will not be because of an actual 50% +1 vote (of those voting, much less those eligible to vote). I don't think a landslide of that magnitude is going to happen. Consquently, I would suggest that such a government doing something to demonstrate its principles... how about bringing in PR. Yeah, that would be the bottom line by which I would judge such a government.

Slumberjack

Life, the universe, everything wrote:
 But lets attack the person who highlights something like this, instead of the knowing use of a term.  Pretty typical for around here.

But no one else seems to know it in the way that you describe.  Is it possible that your interpretation is simply mistaken?  Or is it just as possible that a contrived attack of your own devising has fallen flat?

Pages

Topic locked