Who are u supporting for NDP Leader, how will u mark your ballot, and why? #4

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Hunky_Monkey

Boom Boom wrote:

Hunky_Monkey wrote:
I think people, including myself, need to relax a bit :) They're all fine New Democrats running for leader. And come March 25, we should all be supportive, as New Democrats, of the party and the new leader. Building a strong caucus and party isn't just the responsibility of the leader but of every single one of us.

Would you really support Dewar if he won this race? I sure as hell  won't.

Even though I think he'd be a disaster in Quebec due to his language ability, yes... I support the NDP, not one person at the top. It would be the rank and file of the party making that decision and we should respect that.

I really don't respect Brian Topp's abilities as a politician. I don't even think he's that likable. And I really don't think that Brian Topp the leadership candidate is the real Brian Topp in terms of policy. I think he's running to the left which is the opposite of his career including an advisor to Jack. But I'd still support his leadership.

Thankfully, in that case, I have an awesome local MP in Megan Leslie :)

Lord Palmerston

Agree with this.  Megan Leslie is my favorite MP.  And her support is still up for grabs.

Hunky_Monkey

Lord Palmerston wrote:

Agree with this.  Megan Leslie is my favorite MP.  And her support is still up for grabs.

I didn't think she would declare but read somewhere that she had decided but then changed her mind and was back to being undecided. So I don't know if she will or not.

Hunky_Monkey

DP

josh

DSloth wrote:

If anyone's curious Mulcair dominates without Saganash on the ballot and clinches it in the 4th round: Mulcair 23, Nash 12, Cullen 7.

Babble has sure changed.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

I just can't see many of our current MPs uniting around a Dewar leadership. As someone hinted at in the previous thread, there would be a movement to undermine and replace him. If Dewar becomes leader, I doubt he would win many votes of confidence from the caucus. But, we'll see.

Life, the unive...

Boom Boom wrote:

I just can't see many of our current MPs uniting around a Dewar leadership. As someone hinted at in the previous thread, there would be a movement to undermine and replace him. If Dewar becomes leader, I doubt he would win many votes of confidence from the caucus. But, we'll see.

What is it you hate about democracy?  Don't support him or anyone else- that is your right, but the histronics are nutty.  Do you really think that NDP members of caucus are that anti-democratic?  I don't and I doubt any thoughtful person could honestly believe they hate the democratic process of the party so much they would ditch the duly elected leader voted in an open process by the members of the party without some clataclismic fall.  Democracy is not so weak as you think it is- or where you flashforwarding ahead to the Liberal convention?

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Ha. Do you think Dewar will sell here in Quebec? And maybe you could ask the same question of those who oppose Mulcair and have hinted they won't support him if he becomes leader, in previous threads. And I said. "But, we'll see".

 

Life, the unive...

Well I am only back in the country lately.  Taking one last tour hurrah in my advancing age.  So I can't post about past threads, but I would agree such things are stupid.  You either respect democracy or you don't.  People making the stupid Dewar argument you made and those you suggest are doing it about Mulcair don't when they make such comments.  It isn't up to me to decide who the right leader is, it is NDP members.  They should be respected.  Making such ridiculous comments shows a dramatic disrespect for grassroots NDP members.  Feels very Liberal to me.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

So, if the NDP elects as leader someone who has never bothered to learn the language of Quebec, the province that gave the NDP 58 new MPs, your answer to me is just to shut the fuck up?

Life, the unive...

No my answer is to trust grassroots New Democrats to make the right choice.  But if you want to do the latter I guess that's your business.

Lord Palmerston

New Democrats may choose (foolishly, in my view) to pick Dewar as their leader.  At least, unlike, the Liberals in the case of Michael Ignatieff, it's the choice of the party membership to make such a choice, not the party brass.  However, the voters of Quebec will almost certainly move their votes elsewhere in response to a leader who can't communicate in French.  Certainly, you'd respect their choice, Life?  

Life, the unive...

Yep I would LP.  Democracy is about making choices and living with them.  I admit being out of the country I don't have a pulse on the NDP leadership race, but Dewar winning, at best, seems like a long shot, so the histrionics are very odd.  

 I'd even respect the choice of people deciding to not vote NDP because they don't like Mulcair.  That's their choice- democracy means respecting that choice.  I do find it interesting that the comments of Mulcair and Dewar (at least elsewhere if not here) are almost mirrors of each other.  Muclair will hold Quebec, but is not true enough to social democratic ideals.  Dewar is closer to social democratic ideals, but has no hope of holding Quebec. 

It is a funny old world.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

At least with Mulcair as leader, the NDP has a good chance at forming government in 2015. With Dewar as leader, it'll be almost certainly back to third party status.

Lord Palmerston

With the Bloc as Official Opposition?

Life, the unive...

Boom Boom wrote:

At least with Mulcair as leader, the NDP has a good chance at forming government in 2015. With Dewar as leader, it'll be almost certainly back to third party status.

And I if I am not mistaken you were predicting massive doom and gloom for the NDP in the May election and constantly derided Jack Layton for saying he was running for Prime Minister.  You should come hang out with Wiarton Willie.

Lord Palmerston

Somehow I don't think the Orange Crush would have occurred if Jack were unilingual.  

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Just think how a Dewar leadership will be portrayed in the Canadian and Quebec media. "The NDP elects a leader that can't speak French". If the NDP faithful are dumb enough to elect this guy as leader, what does that say about how they perceive Quebec?

Life, the unive...

And there you go again.  There is no evidence they are one the verge of doing any such thing, but you can't help yourself in insulting others.  Just what is it you hate about democracy?

Life, the unive...

Lord Palmerston wrote:

Somehow I don't think the Orange Crush would have occurred if Jack were unilingual.  

Or had purple skin, size 90 feet and tripped over everything, or was 900 feet tall due to radiation exposure.  What exactly is your point?

GregbythePond

Bravo Life! You are giving me hope that democracy resides somewhere close to some NDP hearts.

wage zombie

I have made as many negative remarks on here about Paul Dewar as anybody (well, since the leadership campaign started...if we count pre-campaign I think Unionist takes it...but I digress), but I would definitely keep supporting the NDP and giving him a shot as leader if somehow he wins (although I really don't see that happening).

If Dewar won I would try to look at the bright side, I think he is someone who is open to discussion and new ideas, and I would hope he progresses with his French, and I would hope that the NDP does whatever it can to compensate for his handicap in Quebec.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Life, the universe, everything wrote:

And there you go again.  There is no evidence they are one the verge of doing any such thing, but you can't help yourself in insulting others.  Just what is it you hate about democracy?

I'm trying to follow your logic. Are we supposed to embrace and adore Harper because he was 'democratically' elected?

wage zombie

Life, the universe, everything wrote:

Or had purple skin, size 90 feet and tripped over everything, or was 900 feet tall due to radiation exposure.  What exactly is your point?

Any of those would be total deal breakers for me, just like inability to effectively converse in French.

Lord Palmerston

The likelihood of Dewar taking it is very low. As Stockholm pointed out earlier today, having Dewar on the final ballot would be best from Mulcair's point of view.

Life, the unive...

Greg -Hate to hurt your fellings, but I'm not supporting Dewar.  I am rather intrigued with Cullen and will likely swing my vote that way now that I am a member.  I just find it passing strange that there are such histrionic comments about Dewar, when I hear lots of people who say they won't vote for Mulcair, or even support the party if he wins, because he isn't left wing enough.  Isn't that an insult to Quebec too?  But somehow it is all about Dewar's french. 

Clearly with the comments about Mulcair different things are motivating different members to support particular candidates.  Those making those kinds of comments about Mulcair are obviously down-playing Quebec and his capacity in french.  Clearly those supporting Dewar are doing similar things in terms of what they are downplaying and focusing on other issues or characteristics they want to see in a leader.  They should have that right, yet they are called stupid and the anti-Mulcair group is treated as paragons of progressivism.  It is a huge double standard, but then again they abound on babble.  But in the end I think everyone's choices should be respected, not demeaned, which is what is happening and it is profoundly anti-democratic.

 

ETA who I was directing my comments to as a bunch showed up inbetween while I was writing.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

LP - good to hear. I still think it's tasteless, arrogant, and disrespectful to contest the leadership when you can't converse in the language of the province that gave the party 58 new MPs.

Life, the unive...

Boom Boom wrote:

Life, the universe, everything wrote:

And there you go again.  There is no evidence they are one the verge of doing any such thing, but you can't help yourself in insulting others.  Just what is it you hate about democracy?

I'm trying to follow your logic. Are we supposed to embrace and adore Harper because he was 'democratically' elected?

Where did I even suggest such a thing.  If you beleive in democracy you do need to acknowledge that Harper is the democratically elected head of his party and respect the choice those members made.  That doesn't mean you have to respect Harper, his policies, or his choice in sweater-ware, nor not fight to unseat him from government.  You are getting far out ahead of yourself in trying to defend your really anti-democratic word choices.

Lord Palmerston

Life, the universe, everything wrote:
Or had purple skin, size 90 feet and tripped over everything, or was 900 feet tall due to radiation exposure.  What exactly is your point?

My point is I don't know why you get so outraged over legtimate scrutiny of Dewar's inability to communicate in the language spoken by 25% of Canadians and the primary language in the province where they hold a majority of their seats.

Life, the unive...

Lord Palmerston wrote:

Life, the universe, everything wrote:
Or had purple skin, size 90 feet and tripped over everything, or was 900 feet tall due to radiation exposure.  What exactly is your point?

My point is I don't know why you get so outraged over legtimate scrutiny of Dewar's inability to communicate in the language spoken by 25% of Canadians and the primary language in the province where they hold a majority of their seats.

Because the language is way over the top and disrespectful for those who are supporting him for differing reasons.  See the double standard I express above.  I have no problem with someone saying I can't support Dewar because his french isn't good enough.  But look at the comments.  People who are supporting him are called stupid, he is disparaged in compltely histrionic ways.  If this is the way New Democrats eat their own I might as well send my new membership card back. 

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Life, the universe, everything wrote:

Where did I even suggest such a thing.  If you beleive in democracy you do need to acknowledge that Harper is the democratically elected head of his party and respect the choice those members made.  That doesn't mean you have to respect Harper, his policies, or his choice in sweater-ware, nor not fight to unseat him from government.  You are getting far out ahead of yourself in trying to defend your really anti-democratic word choices.

So if I don't respect Dewar as Dear Leader, I can apply the same principles against him that you say I can apply to Harper? Thanks - good to know!

GregbythePond

Hey life, no problemo. I'm not expecting anyone to convert. Wink

What I was expecting, was decent language and not some of the really over the top stuff - some of which you have noted.

All it takes is a few bad apples to spoil the basket so I have started flagging those I find oppressive.

NorthReport

Met Topp during his West Coast visit. Actually he is quite impressive and knows what he is doing, and is well versed in the game of politics. Although I am supporting Mulcair for Leader, we could do worse than have Topp as our Leader as well. We are quite fortunate to have the calibre of leadership candidates we have and I am filled with confidence we can win the next federal election.

CanadaApple

When I woke up yesterday morning, I was sure I'd vote Mulcair. Then in the afternoon, it was Topp. At night, back to Mulcair. Now I'm just undecided. = P

Idealistic Prag... Idealistic Pragmatist's picture

CanadaApple wrote:

When I woke up yesterday morning, I was sure I'd vote Mulcair. Then in the afternoon, it was Topp. At night, back to Mulcair. Now I'm just undecided. = P

Realistically, with a ranked ballot you'll be voting for both of them. You just need to decide what order to put them in.

wage zombie

1. Niki Ashton

2. Brian Topp

3. Tom Mulcair

CanadaApple

Idealistic Pragmatist wrote:

CanadaApple wrote:

When I woke up yesterday morning, I was sure I'd vote Mulcair. Then in the afternoon, it was Topp. At night, back to Mulcair. Now I'm just undecided. = P

Realistically, with a ranked ballot you'll be voting for both of them. You just need to decide what order to put them in.

I thought I could vote IRT during the convention, but that would only be a vote for one person, not a ranked ballot?

 

Howard

1. Mulcair

2. Topp

3. Nash

4. Ashton

5. Cullen

Idealistic Prag... Idealistic Pragmatist's picture

CanadaApple wrote:

Idealistic Pragmatist wrote:

CanadaApple wrote:

When I woke up yesterday morning, I was sure I'd vote Mulcair. Then in the afternoon, it was Topp. At night, back to Mulcair. Now I'm just undecided. = P

Realistically, with a ranked ballot you'll be voting for both of them. You just need to decide what order to put them in.

I thought I could vote IRT during the convention, but that would only be a vote for one person, not a ranked ballot?

It's always a ranked ballot, but if you vote IRT, you decide round-by-round how you're going to rank them.

Policywonk

I am supporting Mulcair as my first choice, because I think he is more electable than anyone else due to his greater presence. I don't think he's perfect, and have problems with some of his policy statements, but to me he doesn't have as many negatives as the others. I'm having difficulty with ranking anyone after Mulcair, but even if he doesn't win, I doubt my second choice will come into play, as I think it unlikely he will not be on the final count/ballot.

JKR

1. Topp
2. Cullen
3. Mulcair
4. Ashton
5. Nash
6. Dewar
7. Singh

Vansterdam Kid

1) Mulcair.

2) Nash.

3) Cullen.

4) Ashton.

5) Topp.

6) Dewar or Singh.

Mulcair is the most "Prime Ministerial" and the best overall communicator. I think he could make mincemeat of the Cons and I think we'd be passing up a big opportunity if we went with someone else. I think he has the most potential to be a reverse Stephen Harper, wherein he understands how to pull the political spectrum to the left by positioning the centre where the NDP is - not so much moving the NDP to the centre, which would obviously make the political ground a lot more fertile for the NDP and take us to the next level. I wouldn't be worried if one of the next three won, I even think Topp could eventually learn - though I think it'd take to long to justify ranking him higher than fifth. I'd vote for an NDP led by Dewar or Singh before just about any other party, but I really don't think they're ready to lead the party now or in the near future and I can't see them facing off against each other, so it doesn't matter where I rank them.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

1. Mulcair

2. Cullen

3. Ashton

janfromthebruce

I'm glad to hear that NP. And thanks for saying that.

 

NorthReport wrote:

Met Topp during his West Coast visit. Actually he is quite impressive and knows what he is doing, and is well versed in the game of politics. Although I am supporting Mulcair for Leader, we could do worse than have Topp as our Leader as well. We are quite fortunate to have the calibre of leadership candidates we have and I am filled with confidence we can win the next federal election.

______________________________________________________________________________________ Our kids live together and play together in their communities, let's have them learn together too!

Brachina

1. Mulcair
2. Niki Ashton
3. Cullen
4. Top
5. Nash
6. Singh
7. write in name Peter Julian (kidding)
8. Dewar (the checkmark covered in tears)

Brachina

1. Mulcair
2. Niki Ashton
3. Cullen
4. Top
5. Nash
6. Singh
7. write in name Peter Julian (kidding)
8. Dewar (the checkmark covered in tears)

GregbythePond

Can't resist now. Two new endorsements for Paul Dewar this morning.Laughing

nicky

Before this morning I thought I might only vote for my first two or three choices.

But now , the apalling prospect of Deawr as leader and the Audrey McLaughlin type disaster it portends has caused me to reconsider. I will vote for all the other six and leave Dewar off my ballot altogether. Even Brian Topp looks good to me next to Dewar.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

If Topp apologises to Mulcair for his comments on P&P last night, I might consider him as my third choice. Otherwise, he's off my ballot entirely.

flight from kamakura

1. mulcair

2. topp

3. nash

4. ashton

i want government.

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