Why did "The Singh surge" turn out to be...nothing at all?

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Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture
Why did "The Singh surge" turn out to be...nothing at all?

In the end, there was no big swing at all.  There was no SWING at all.  There weren't even gains in Ontario and B.C., the places where making Singh leader was supposed to guarantee epic NDP showings.

It was all an illusion.

SOME of the furniture was saved...that's it.  

Now that we know the NDP needs a new leader-now that we know that Trudeau won't make any real concessions to a party which lost over a third of its seats...while the massive internal change that is needed to save the NDP, to save the electoral Left in Canada in any form, finally occur?

Now will the defeatist, perpetually nay-saying party bureaucracy finally be forced out of the way?

Now will there finally be an internal democratization of the shards of the NDP that remain?

This is the second election in a row which ended in epic losses.  

Will those who have said nothing but "no" finally get the hell out of the way?

The people of the NDP worked like never before to save this party.  They deserved better.

Will they be able to get the party they deserve now?

And can this please be the last campaign where anybody EVER says that nothing can be done until the last two weeks?  Where everything has to be left until it's too late to matter, as everybody knew it was going to be too late to matter?

 

 

 

jatt_1947 jatt_1947's picture

This is why: http://rabble.ca/babble/canadian-politics/brampton-ndp-candidate-under-fire-derogatory-comments-about-indigenous#new

Good riddance too.

The woman then started crying to the Singhs, saying she had been raped by her kidnapper and that her in-laws would not accept her. The Khalsa resolved to marry her off as their daughter, and told the in-laws they could accept the marriage proposal or fight them. They accepted.

https://twitter.com/JungNihang/status/1142425683672674304

He should remember who he is.

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾ।।ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹ।।

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Seriously?  You're still holding a grudge for something that happened in 1763?  Something that Jagmeet Singh had nothing to do with and bears no responsibility for?

jatt_1947 jatt_1947's picture
Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

You can't hold things that happened two-and-a-half centuries ago against every Sikh who will ever live.  Are you about anything at all in life but rage for rage's sake?

And if you're "outt"-and btw, "lol" is a truly weird follow up to post that did nothing but incite irrational hatred-could you please just STAY out?  You are bringing nothing but poison to this board. 

 

jatt_1947 jatt_1947's picture

I was using the older event as an example and comparing it to his cowardice in the Brampton Centre thing.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

jatt_1947 wrote:

Ken Burch wrote:

You can't hold things that happened two-and-a-half centuries ago against every Sikh who will ever live.  Are you about anything at all in life but rage for rage's sake?

And if you're "out"...could you please just STAY out?  You are bringing nothing but poison to this board. 

Are you insane or something? The Khalsa free'd an abducted woman from the clutches of the Afghans & married her off as their daughter.

Sikh are freer of slaves and protectors of women.

Jagmeet Singh DHALIWAL chose to try & protect his political power at the cost of womanhood, and was punished for it.

Where the fuck in your head are you going on about what the Singhs did in 1763 and will continue to do ever being wrong? 

Get a grip & fuck off lol you're either mentally unstable or hold a deep, deep bias of some sort.

Look, I don't like leaving the candidate in Brampton Centre in place, but what does the man's full name have to do with it? He's still a Sikh. 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

And in any case, none of that explains the NDP failures in Saskatchewan and B.C., or the inability of the party to hang on to more than one seat in Quebec.

bekayne

To steer this back on topic. What happened? Turnout.

jatt_1947 jatt_1947's picture

Sikh, Muslim, Hindu are meaningless distinctions.
The Guru does not love the Sikh only his rehat (code/ideals)

He has failed them, he should go reflect on that.

Re: other threads
When posters, lionize tyrants like Aurangzeb or Indira Gandhi..
Both realized it in the end too..

https://www.brownpundits.com/2019/09/16/last-will-of-guru-gobind-and-emperor-aurangzeb/

 

jatt_1947 jatt_1947's picture

Turnout is related to loss of confidence stemming from the coalition nonsense to the Brampton Centre thing.
He should have kept his mouth shut on the first and responded harshly on the latter.

:shrug:
He ran a good campaign..

 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

jatt_1947 wrote:

Sikh, Muslim, Hindu are meaningless distinctions.
The Guru does not love the Sikh only his rehat (code/ideals)

He has failed them, he should go reflect on that.

Re: other threads
When posters, lionize tyrants like Aurangzeb or Indira Gandhi.
Both realized it in the end too.

https://www.brownpundits.com/2019/09/16/last-will-of-guru-gobind-and-emperor-aurangzeb/

 

Why do you think anyone on this board would ever lionize Aurangzeb or Indira Gandhi?  The left thought Indira was a tyrant, too.  And what she did at the Golden Temple was inexcusable.

As to Aurangzeb, no one here has defended anything he did and you know it.  It's just that nobody living in India today is responsible for his deeds.

And it's also just that there's no valid reason to believe that Indian Muslims are capable of massacring Hindus or Sikhs.

jatt_1947 jatt_1947's picture

Punish them for what? There's a lot of shared respect on both sides for stuff I don't even want to talk about here. :)
Let's put it like this, Jats & Afghans would be fighting each other & amongst themselves no matter the religion.
Our disagreement with them is elementary.
Also, in Islam all Muslims are one nation there is no X Muslim.
The Ulema is one||

josh

bekayne wrote:

To steer this back on topic. What happened? Turnout.

Meaning NDP voters didn't tour out?  Other party voters turned out higher than expected?

Abacus nailed the NDP number of 16.  The others averaged 18.  Where the part fell short of expectations the most was in Ontario.  They failed to pick up any seats in Toronto and lost a couple in SW Ontario.  

robbie_dee

Given the disparity between the positive polling and media attention Singh received this election, and his ultimate result, I am wondering if there may have been a bit of a "Bradley effect” here?

josh

Polling wasn't that far off. And positive attention from good debate performances doesn't necessarily translate to votes.

robbie_dee

josh wrote:

bekayne wrote:

To steer this back on topic. What happened? Turnout.

Meaning NDP voters didn't tour out?  Other party voters turned out higher than expected? 

Overall turnout dropped about 2 percent. I would figure that to be bad for the NDP (and the Liberals) as their vote base(s) skew younger and presumably less likely to vote. But we will have to see whether there are some more thorough studies done. You are right that Abacus seems to have got the final vote percentage mostly right, but other polls did not. Most poll aggregators had the NDP closer to 20 percent? Did Abacus know something the rest didn’t or is it more likely that they just got lucky?

MegB

As I posted in another thread, Singh ran a good campaign but it was too little too late. The NDP continues to occupy a non-differentiated middle ground, only very slightly to the left of the Liberals, and like the all the major parties, lacks a compelling vision for the future of the country, something that fires the imaginations of voters. 

They'll need a new leader, one with charisma and a well-defined differentiated progressive vision. I'd be happy with either Charlie Angus or Niki Ashton, with a slight preference for Angus because he is charismatic, progressive and is at ease in front of a camera. He's a performer (years of experience in Toronto's punk music scene) who can speak off script much in the way the now-despised Bob Rae did in the lead up to winning Ontario. I really like Niki -  she's progressive, feminist and wicked intelligent, but she needs a bit more time to grow into her public persona. 

Pondering

jatt_1947 wrote:

Punish them for what? There's a lot of shared respect on both sides for stuff I don't even want to talk about here. :)
Let's put it like this, Jats & Afghans would be fighting each other & amongst themselves no matter the religion.
Our disagreement with them is elementary.
Also, in Islam all Muslims are one nation there is no X Muslim.
The Ulema is one||

Gods are a figment of the imagination. Canada and India are two separate countries. Singh is Canadian. I don't much care what is going on in India except in the general sense of wanting people to be free and safe. 

Pondering

Geez Ken you really have your hate on for Singh. Did he run over your puppy? Do you really think there is an NDP savior waiting in the wings that will deliver the NDP into power no matter what the electoral landscape?

 

Debater

josh wrote:

Where the part fell short of expectations the most was in Ontario.  They failed to pick up any seats in Toronto and lost a couple in SW Ontario.  

I was surprised the Libs picked up Windsor-Tecumseh.

quizzical

pffft eastern pundits. the only reason why BC held was because of him. central Canada is the issue here not jagmeet.

Would'nt have happened with Niki or Charlie.

keep your eye on Taylor Bachrach though.

Ciabatta2

Re Windsor Tecumseh, they ran a popular councillor there - Hardcastle is on the weak end of NDP caucus so it's not a shock. The Liberals were expecting to win both Windsor seats.

 

Re: the surge, is it possible there was a Singh surge - but from 11 to 15?

Paladin1

NDP fell for their own propaganda. They decided Singh was the second coming and believed what they decided was the truth. Reality didn't agree. 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Pondering wrote:

Geez, Ken you really have your hate on for Singh. Did he run over your puppy? Do you really think there is an NDP savior waiting in the wings that will deliver the NDP into power no matter what the electoral landscape?

 

I don't have a "hate on".  It's that all of this is exactly what I warned about.  I warned that the NDP needed to get a clear message out there months before it did.  I warned that the leader needed to be out there much earlier than he was.  I warned that the party needed to make a clear and passionate commitment to the social movements and the Green New Deal.  I warned that it was going to be too late to make a difference for the leadership convention to replace Mulcair to be held as absurdly late as it was.  I warned that Singh had no magical vote-winning appeal and that there was no justification for the party insiders to make that kind of a heavy-handed push for Singh in the leadership vote.  I warned that it would be too late to hold off until the last two weeks of the campaign to bring out substantive policies.

MegB

quizzical wrote:

pffft eastern pundits. the only reason why BC held was because of him. central Canada is the issue here not jagmeet.

Would'nt have happened with Niki or Charlie.

keep your eye on Taylor Bachrach though.

I disagree. As I said, Singh ran a good campaign but he was all but invisible prior to the writ being dropped. He should've been campaigning from the moment he was elected leader. He would have known he had to work harder than anyone else because of the disadvantage of being a brown turbaned politician in a racist country. He didn't move the party one iota to the left - he just moved it more or less back to where it was before Mulcair moved it to the right. 

Your snark about eastern pundits and central Canada is sadly predictable. No region is responsible for the mediocre NDP performance - that's all on the party. Like the others, the NDP has no compelling vision that would make more voters support them. So long as they occupy the middle ground they will remain in third place federally. The party brass needs to grow a pair, step outside their lacklustre comfort zone and go in a bold new direction, one that assures voters that they will take radical action against climate change while boosting the economy by providing the hundreds of thousands of sustainable "green" jobs economists know are viable.

Because the NDP continues to bring a knife to the gunfight, I voted Communist this time. I'm tired of holding my nose and voting NDP and I'll never vote Green. The second the NDP ups its game and puts forward real vision, I'll support them federally again. 

jatt_1947 jatt_1947's picture

Pondering, so is like literally reality, language and pretty much everything. 

I almost want a female PM more than a Sikh one so Ashton would be cool.. 

JKR

I think these results are just a little bit worse than the average NDP election result and Singh should not bear too much of the blame. It seems to me that since it's inception almost 60 years ago the NDP usually gets around 18 - 19% of the vote in elections. This result is worse than most of their previous results but only by just a few percentage points. I think the Greens growing popularity probably accounts for a lot of the NDP performing a bit worse than usual.

bekayne

josh wrote:

bekayne wrote:

To steer this back on topic. What happened? Turnout.

Meaning NDP voters didn't tour out?  Other party voters turned out higher than expected?

Abacus nailed the NDP number of 16.  The others averaged 18.  Where the part fell short of expectations the most was in Ontario.  They failed to pick up any seats in Toronto and lost a couple in SW Ontario.  

NDP support in all the polls was skewed towards younger voters, who didn't turn up in numbers like the older voters.

R.E.Wood

In my opinion the election results are a huge disappointment for the NDP, and yet in his speech last night Singh didn't seem aware of it. His speech was completely tone-deaf to the reality of the results. Popular vote share down 3.8% nationally. 20 seats lost. Only one seat remaining in Quebec. Zero seats in Saskatchewan. Etc... Anne McGrath also seems to think it was a victory: she said the party had “totally exceeded expectations.” “And we have come out of this campaign with a leader whose approval ratings shot sky-high, who ran a very effective campaign that really connected with people.” 

https://globalnews.ca/news/6062299/ndp-loss-in-seats-federal-election/

True, the NDP didn't lose party status and didn't die, as most had predicted prior to the campaign itself. But as others have pointed out here already, it was a case of too little too late. Yes, Singh ran a great campaign and there was a post-debate surge that acknowledged that, but in the end it largely failed to materialize and he "surged" the party up to a substantial loss from the prior election. That's not a win. 

I acknowledge Singh ran a great campaign, and he earned my vote for the party because of it. But he was invisible and ineffective as leader for the 18 months prior to the campaign. As someone else pointed out he should have been campaigning from Day 1, but he phoned in his job until the campaign began. He also failed to deliver on the promise whch was the reason people elected him as leader: to gain seats in the GTA and Lower Mainland areas. Why was he unable to secure a breakthrough in Brampton or Surrey, for example? If the narrative in electing Singh leader was "Well, we're going to lose Quebec anyway, so let's go with the guy who will deliver breakthroughs in the GTA and Lower Mainland", then Singh has to be judged a complete failure because he didn't deliver.

Singh's personal approval numbers shot up during the campaign, but delivered nothing beyond a last minute saving of some of the furniture. He could grow as leader, and continue to grow in the estimation of Canadians, but even his best performance and near-universal praise in the media for him during the campaign resulted only in a major loss, and failure to deliver a breakthrough in the areas he was supposed to be strongest. 

I acknowledge his performance during the campaign, but that's not enough. I'd be on board with Singh resigning, and the party going through a new leadership campaign. There are some good candidates amongst the elected MP's... 

However, I don't think that will happen. In reality, the party remains broke, and after the campaign likely further in debt than ever before. The results will be spun as a success; a reprieve from near-certain disaster, and - as we're already seeing in the media - a place to build from:

https://www.macleans.ca/politics/jagmeet-singh-is-dancing-like-he-won-th...

I don't think Singh is going to resign, or be pushed out. What remains to be seen is how he performs as leader going forward in this minority parliament. I suspect there will be no formal coalition, and the Liberals (with their strong minority position) will seek support on a vote-by-vote basis from whichever other party they can. The NDP won't be in a power position.

By the time the next election comes around will Singh have increased his standing in the eyes of Canadians? Will the party put forward a platform that captures the imagination of Canadians? Or will it be a case of treading water, perhaps gaining a few pick-ups here and there, but with no major breakthroughs and growth? I fear the latter, but time will tell...

Paladin1

jatt_1947 wrote:

Pondering, so is like literally reality, language and pretty much everything. 

I almost want a female PM more than a Sikh one so Ashton would be cool.. 

 

Isn't that sorta bordering on identity politics?  Why do you almost want a female PM? 

Pondering

Ken Burch wrote:

Pondering wrote:

Geez, Ken you really have your hate on for Singh. Did he run over your puppy? Do you really think there is an NDP savior waiting in the wings that will deliver the NDP into power no matter what the electoral landscape?

 

I don't have a "hate on".  It's that all of this is exactly what I warned about.  I warned that the NDP needed to get a clear message out there months before it did.  I warned that the leader needed to be out there much earlier than he was.  I warned that the party needed to make a clear and passionate commitment to the social movements and the Green New Deal.  I warned that it was going to be too late to make a difference for the leadership convention to replace Mulcair to be held as absurdly late as it was.  I warned that Singh had no magical vote-winning appeal and that there was no justification for the party insiders to make that kind of a heavy-handed push for Singh in the leadership vote.  I warned that it would be too late to hold off until the last two weeks of the campaign to bring out substantive policies.

Okay you were right. 

Pondering

Paladin1 wrote:

jatt_1947 wrote:

Pondering, so is like literally reality, language and pretty much everything. 

I almost want a female PM more than a Sikh one so Ashton would be cool.. 

 

Isn't that sorta bordering on identity politics?  Why do you almost want a female PM? 

I suspect mocking on the part of Jatt. Really ups the political discourse. 

Every elected PM of Canada has been a white middle-aged or older white man. That is identity politics. 

While there are Conservative women and minorities they are still more likely to be progressive. I'm sure we could find yet another middle-aged or older white guy but I would prefer to see a woman leading the party. 

White men are so worried about being treated unfairly. 

josh

To the party insiders the leader's "sex appeal," or charisma, is what matters.  Well, the leaders's supposed pizazz delivered 20% fewer votes and nearly 50% fewer seats.  That is failure.  But they're trying to set the bar at retaining party status.  So I guess it was a raging success.

nicky

I had my doubts about Jagmeet from the beginning but he substantially allayed them during the campaign.

 

Ever since Mulcair was ditched we were going to tank in Quebec. Only Mulcair could have held it or improved our position there.

 

We had our backs against the wall in early Sept. Polls had the NDP nand the Greens about even at 12% with the Greens growing. If we had been supplanted by the Greens , even by 7 seats to 5, which was a real prospect, the NDP would have slid into 5th place and irrelevance.

Jagmeet saved us from that and we should acknowledge that. 

The party is now in a position to build and expand as the progressive alternative. A few weeks ago the Greens looked like filling that role.

R.E.Wood

Singh says he's 'not at all' worried about a leadership challenge after NDP's election disappointment

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/singh-day-after-leadership-1.5330592

Debater

The Singh NDP's overall results were fairly poor, except in British Columbia.  So Ken is right about that.

But Nicky is correct about the Greens -- Elizabeth May blew this election.  She had enormous momentum earlier in the year with the Paul Manly win and the provincial success in Atlantic Canada, and in the end the Greens only re-elected May & Manly and one extra new seat in Fredericton.  So although the Greens are beginning to overtake the NDP in the Atlantic region as an alternative, the NDP prevented the Greens from emerging as an alternative in the rest of the country.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

If the NDP changes its leader before the next election it will lose half its seats on Vancouver Island. The people in my riding turned out at almost 72% and the combined NDP Green vote was 55%. Across the great divide the people of Alberta gave Conservatives 60% to 70% majority in ridings on the basis that they wanted a government to stick it to the Coast. Fuck Canada

Pondering

R.E.Wood wrote:

Singh says he's 'not at all' worried about a leadership challenge after NDP's election disappointment

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/singh-day-after-leadership-1.5330592

He should have acknowledged the losses. 

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

nicky wrote:

We had our backs against the wall in early Sept. Polls had the NDP nand the Greens about even at 12% with the Greens growing. If we had been supplanted by the Greens , even by 7 seats to 5, which was a real prospect, the NDP would have slid into 5th place and irrelevance.

Jagmeet saved us from that and we should acknowledge that. 

The party is now in a position to build and expand as the progressive alternative. A few weeks ago the Greens looked like filling that role.

I agree. He deserves a shot at another election if he wants it. After all, this government probably won't last the maximum 4 years anyway.

quizzical

kropotkin1951 wrote:

If the NDP changes its leader before the next election it will lose half its seats on Vancouver Island. The people in my riding turned out at almost 72% and the combined NDP Green vote was 55%. Across the great divide the people of Alberta gave Conservatives 60% to 70% majority in ridings on the basis that they wanted a government to stick it to the Coast. Fuck Canada

yup. and would lose a few more off the Island too.

how is he supposed to respond to losing seats to the Bloc? he can't. 

there is also 1 new MP and 1 reclaimed seat. 

if Ontarians want to blame Jagmeet for their voting Liberal they can go right a head. but imv it's bs. 

 

 

jatt_1947 jatt_1947's picture

Pondering why do you expect mocking? 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Michael Moriarity wrote:

nicky wrote:

We had our backs against the wall in early Sept. Polls had the NDP nand the Greens about even at 12% with the Greens growing. If we had been supplanted by the Greens , even by 7 seats to 5, which was a real prospect, the NDP would have slid into 5th place and irrelevance.

Jagmeet saved us from that and we should acknowledge that. 

The party is now in a position to build and expand as the progressive alternative. A few weeks ago the Greens looked like filling that role.

I agree. He deserves a shot at another election if he wants it. After all, this government probably won't last the maximum 4 years anyway.

He inherited a party that was imploding after the 2011 anomaly and the 2015 disastrous showing by Mulcair. He extinguished the flames and so he needs to get into the House and show Canadians that he is a leader they should believe in. No NDP leader has made a significant breakthrough in the Southern Ontario ridings were Canadian governments are created. Then inevitably some insider idiot in Ottawa or Toronto will claim that the reason the NDP lost was because they needed to be more liberal. I elect an NDP MP against the tide and Southern Ontario elects Liberals, after watching this recurring pattern for decades I feel that voters in Ontario are the root cause of Canada's right wing neo-con governments not those evil Albertans. Its all about seat count and they deliver back and forth governments of Liberal/Tory same old imperialism because that is what what they want.

What is the point of electing leftist NDP MP's to go back to Ottawa to be told to tone it down by central campaign losers from Upper Canada? Singh brought out crowds on Vancouver Island and his personal performance helped hold our vote. No other NDP leader that ran against him would have performed as well.

Sean in Ottawa

People are dissapointed only becuase expectations were raised during the campaign.

The NDP went into this campaign fighting for party status in an election where the party was broke. Singh is responsible for doing a poor job related to party finances and fundraising by any objective measure. However, he provided a campaign that saved party status, put the party into the the political conversation for this parliament (although with less power than many think), saved a Quebec seat (a poor campaign would have lost that toehold), inspired young people who may not have voted for him but at least kept the NDP alive in their minds, and saved his job which was important for the party.

Singh, if he had lost party status would have created a leadership campaign that would have sucked another year of finances for the party into a leadership contest. The party likely would not have survived that well.

The NDP was in serious trouble and still is but has won back considerable respect for this campaign which did focus on good platforms and messaging.

The NDP starting this low in a FPTP election that was extremely tight was in a dangerous position. New Democrats may hate voting to block a party but they do it becuase they have to and the dynamics of this campaign with the rhetoric and closeness of the Liebral Conservative battle was going to hurt. My guess is the party lost a large number of votes due to strategic voting.

As I epxected - but much worse than I had come to believe - the polarization between the Liberals and the NDP cost many seats and many more votes.  It cost votes due to an increased number of seats people worried about. It cost seats due to movements of support between othe rparties. Liberal vote going conservative cost the NDP in many places especially the west. Conservative vote going Liberal cost the NDP in many places in Ontario as the spectre of Ford loomed over the results.

The NDP has to be criticized for the position it was in at the start of the campaign. However, unlike the previous campaign, it increased support throughout the campaign to end up lower than in 2015 but significantly better than it started a couple months ago.

There were many key issues in this campaign that were regionally devisive and the NDP probably did the best it could in these areas.

A few mistakes were made and some serious but it seems mistakes occur every time.

The NDP ought to move past the leadership question and move on to discussions of policy and a real fund-raising strategy to address the financial emergency they are in.

Supporters should not be too discouraged if they consider just how bad things were headed only a few weeks ago.

melovesproles

Yeah, the first time the NDP is in a position to hold the balance of power since the 1970s and they should dump their leader. That would be super smart.

josh

Jagmeet saved us from that and we should acknowledge that. 

He put the party in that position.  That's like giving an arsonist credit for putting out the fire after half the house burned down.

Aristotleded24

On the question of leadership, none of the party leaders is going to step down during a minority government and leave their party unprepared, so Singh isn't going anywhere. Every one of these leaders (with the possible exception of Bernier) will lead their parties into the next election.

On Singh's performance as leader, showing up is a basic thing. Singh did not do that prior to this campaign. He needs to start doing that now. Come to provincial conventions and start showing up in by-elections, even if it is in a seat where NDP support is normally in the single digits. That's how you connect with people. It's great that he was able to attract crowds of people in BC. That needs to be replicated nationally, in areas that the NDP had written off during the last 4 yeras. Despite the crowds in BC, it was one of the places where the NDP lost seats. The NDP only increased its seat coung in Newfoundland and Labrador, Nunavut, and Manitoba, but those increases were due entirely to the efforts of local activists, with Singh and the national party having next to no influence.

My concern about Singh not showing up is something he can very easily change. There are others about his judgement that I find more troubling. He mishandled the Erin Weir investigation to the point that people thought Weir was kicked out for minor social protocl breaches that everyone is guilty of at some point. At the same time, the candidate in Brampton was allowed to stay in spite of blatantly misogynistic comments? What is up with that? How do we know that he would never make a serious misjudgement like that again? Say what you will about Niki Ashton, but I highly doubt that she would have tolerated that kind of crap from anyone.

So in short, great campaign that brought the NDP back to life, but Singh really needs to step up his game going forward.

Misfit Misfit's picture

The Liberals need to get Quebec seats back to get majority status. The BQ will hold the balance of power.

Sean in Ottawa

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Michael Moriarity wrote:

nicky wrote:

We had our backs against the wall in early Sept. Polls had the NDP nand the Greens about even at 12% with the Greens growing. If we had been supplanted by the Greens , even by 7 seats to 5, which was a real prospect, the NDP would have slid into 5th place and irrelevance.

Jagmeet saved us from that and we should acknowledge that. 

The party is now in a position to build and expand as the progressive alternative. A few weeks ago the Greens looked like filling that role.

I agree. He deserves a shot at another election if he wants it. After all, this government probably won't last the maximum 4 years anyway.

He inherited a party that was imploding after the 2011 anomaly and the 2015 disastrous showing by Mulcair. He extinguished the flames and so he needs to get into the House and show Canadians that he is a leader they should believe in. No NDP leader has made a significant breakthrough in the Southern Ontario ridings were Canadian governments are created. Then inevitably some insider idiot in Ottawa or Toronto will claim that the reason the NDP lost was because they needed to be more liberal. I elect an NDP MP against the tide and Southern Ontario elects Liberals, after watching this recurring pattern for decades I feel that voters in Ontario are the root cause of Canada's right wing neo-con governments not those evil Albertans. Its all about seat count and they deliver back and forth governments of Liberal/Tory same old imperialism because that is what what they want.

What is the point of electing leftist NDP MP's to go back to Ottawa to be told to tone it down by central campaign losers from Upper Canada? Singh brought out crowds on Vancouver Island and his personal performance helped hold our vote. No other NDP leader that ran against him would have performed as well.

I think your hatred for central Canada is really damaging what otherwise could be an interesting analysis.

Too often you crow about people in the East not understanding the West but the hypocrisy shows through all that sneering as you are clueless about what is going on in Ontario now.

The non-conservatives in this province are traumatized by what is happened and what is coming. Helathcare and education is under a constant attack along with other key areas. Social assistance is coming under attack shortly as the province has declared this intention.

Voters in Ontario are paranoid about vote splitting in Ontario. Sure judgement can be off as people do not understand strategicvoting and are subject to tremendous amounts of propaganda - but this was a huge factor.

The province in under threat of dismantlement by Conservataives. We do not have an NDP government like you in BC. We have a Conservative that we could see was toning back its attack on people until after the federal election. The guiding motivation of much of Ontario non-conservatives was to do anything to stop the Conservatives. We can debate the rationality of voters saying they cannot vote NDP for fear of Conservatives.

Yes, you can blame Ontario for electing a right wing government but this was not a landslide in votes - just seats. It happened in an election where the governing party, plagued with scandal, was nearly wiped out and the NDP came remarkably close from third place.

Last night the NDP got 11 of 42 BC seats, three less than in 2015  --- and 6 in Ontario, two less than 2015. Unfortunate but part of a national story. In Ontario the NDP went up 0.2% to 16.8 and in BC the vote went down 1.5% to 24.4 while the Conservatives dropped a couple points and the Liberals dropped three points.

 

melovesproles

The Liberals need to get Quebec seats back to get majority status. The BQ will hold the balance of power.

What do you see the Liberals giving the Bloc that would both help the Liberals get Quebec seats back (without losing them seats in the ROC) and be tempting enough to the Bloc that they would want to prop up the Liberals?

Sean in Ottawa

josh wrote:

Jagmeet saved us from that and we should acknowledge that. 

He put the party in that position.  That's like giving an arsonist credit for putting out the fire after half the house burned down.

It is fantasy to suggest taht the NDP's house was not on fire when he took it over - even if it had not burned completely before he got the job.

Yes, there are good reasons to criticize but he is not the "arsonist" in that the fire was lit before he got there.

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