Why is the Muslim Canadian Congress OPPOSING the Islamic Community center two blocks from the WTC? (II)

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No Yards No Yards's picture

I used google street view to go for a little walk-about the neighbourhood where that mosque will be built ... just around the corner from the mosque I found a nice respectful Christian institute.

 

http://goo.gl/maps/yT5s

Click on the question mark icon, and follow the street view link inside ... or use street view on your own.

Stockholm

This article on dailykos says everything that needs to be said:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/8/18/894195/-The-ground-zero-mosq...

"...In addition to equating "Muslim" with "terrorist," the "sensitivity to 9/11 survivors argument" makes another subtle assertion: 9/11 survivors are not Muslim.  This is the other side of the "Muslim=terrorist" coin.  Attackers cannot also be victims, and because Muslims are attackers, they can't be 9/11 survivors.  Of course, such an assertion is patently false.  Many of the 9/11 victims were Muslim, and they have every right to grieve alongside their non-Muslim counterparts.  Ironically, a key goal of the Park51 project is to foster moderate Islamic views in the New York community and to repudiate extremist elements which have abandoned guiding Islamic principles.  Indeed, the Park51 project plans call for a memorial to be erected in honor of the victims of 9/11.  

If the "sensitivity to 9/11 survivors" argument is broadened to a "sensitivity to New Yorkers generally" argument, it makes even less sense.  New York City is home to approximately 600,000 Muslims, close to 10% of the city's population.  How quickly we can redefine a city's population to exclude almost one out of every ten of its members (and if they really all were terrorists...)."

Maysie Maysie's picture

"Hallowed Ground"

Photos of businesses the same distance from the so-called "Ground Zero Mosque"

remind remind's picture

What? Surely MacDonalds must be hallowed given its Israeli Zionist connections. :D

 

ETA: And we all know that anything to do with men's clubs and men's access to convenience store 'sex', is hallowed.

Bacchus

Maysie wrote:

"Hallowed Ground"

Photos of businesses the same distance from the so-called "Ground Zero Mosque"

 

Beautiful Maysie, I love anything that points out the hypocrisy for a stupid position

Snert Snert's picture

"Hallowed"??

So much for the separation of church and State.  Evidently, Palin believes that that chunk of dirt has special meaning to the ghosts that, in turn, have special meaning for her.

DaveW

Bacchus wrote:

Maysie wrote:

"Hallowed Ground"

Photos of businesses the same distance from the so-called "Ground Zero Mosque"

 Beautiful Maysie, I love anything that points out the hypocrisy for a stupid position

well, not quite, Manhattan is a junkyard top to bottom; I lived there for most of the 1990s, and for a photog to go out and find trashy, crummy, kitschy cityscapes -- gee, what a scoop!

if Bernie's Junk Jewelry Emporium downtown existed back in 2000, and continues to exist today, that is just the cityscape; they did not decide to set down in what would later become the scene of a tragedy; no hypocrisy there;

the unpardonable ones are the 9/11 trash souvenir salesman, with the tower ashtrays and T-shirts

 

Maysie Maysie's picture

Hi DaveW, it is hypocrisy when the entire premise of the ridiculous protests is that the area of "ground zero" is this sacred holy place to honour the dead. Funny how capitalism trumps all that.

Park 51

George Victor

A half dozen Republican officials from the Reagan and Bush administrations have sent a letter of complaint to the GOP, appeaing in the NYTimes today:

 

"Dear Republican Colleague:

We are writing to you today as loyal Americans who are active members of the Republican Party. We also happen to be proud of our Arab American and Muslim American contributions to the Republican Party.

We are deeply concerned by the rhetoric of some leading members of our party surrounding the construction of the Muslim Community Center in downtown Manhattan. These comments are not only constitutionally unsound, they are also alienating millions of Arab American and Muslim American voters who believe, as we do, in the principles of our party - individual liberty, traditional values, and the rule of law.

As you know, our party has had a long history of inclusion - beginning with our great President Abraham Lincoln, whose leadership on the slavery issue was monumental, and continuing through President George W. Bush whose public statements and actions on the differentiation between Islam and the terrorists who attacked us on 9-11 were critically important. We are particularly proud to note that President Bush appointed more Arab Americans and Muslim Americans to his administration than any other president in U.S. history."

 

The Muslims and Arabs for Bush coming out...of their holes.

Ripple

George, I'm really trying to understand you here. And I'm thinking of your posts in the previous thread. Do you think it's possible that Muslims who are sensitive to the victims of 9/11, who love their kids as much as we do, who are interested in reform, who oppose the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, who opposed Bush can come to a different conclusion than you and the MCC about the best way to move forward? That such people can support this mosque?  Maybe they carry out their work within their communities, rather than on the news and the internet? 

 

trippie

I guess the fact that the so called "ground zero" site is still just a big hole in the ground seems to have excaped the obvious.

How about all those strip clubs, sex toy shops and dance bars in the hood? Are they a slap in the face as well?

Oh wait, you didn't hear about those? I guess that says it all as well?

Just to abate your fears, I have no problem with strip clubs and dance bars or sexy stores. I'd rather see those then religoius shrines anyways.

 

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

What are you on about trippie?

Maysie Maysie's picture

Keith Olbermann on Park 51.

Wow.

(except for two parts, one the positive spin on capitalism, and the second on his belief in American = freedom)

skdadl

Maysie wrote:

Keith Olbermann on Park 51.

Wow.

(except for two parts, one the positive spin on capitalism, and the second on his belief in American = freedom)

Bravo!

Sometimes Keith really earns his sign-off (Good night and good luck). Classic statement, backed up by lotsa facts. We don't give an inch on this turf, brothers and sisters.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Keith is very good on some issues.  as long as you agree that America has the moral authority to run the world his stuff sounds good.

He also believes the American myth of their founding with its freedom of the press and religion.  Their first civil war started with the business leaders in the colonies hiring instigators and then the mobs burnt down every single Loyalist press.   As for religious freedom in 18th century America he did highlight that even in the 1960's papists were vilified. 

I watch him and Rachel on occasion and agree with much of their analysis except their devotion to the believe that somehow the US is entitled to rule the world and somehow that is about democracy for all.  I marvel at the ability of intelligent Americans to forgive their own war cries while vilifying their enemies.  Americans never hold their own history to the standards they insist their imperial competitors should be held to.

remind remind's picture

Manifest Destiny indoctrination has always worked well.

Never underestimate the power of operant conditioning.

George Victor

Ripple wrote:

George, I'm really trying to understand you here. And I'm thinking of your posts in the previous thread. Do you think it's possible that Muslims who are sensitive to the victims of 9/11, who love their kids as much as we do, who are interested in reform, who oppose the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, who opposed Bush can come to a different conclusion than you and the MCC about the best way to move forward? That such people can support this mosque?  Maybe they carry out their work within their communities, rather than on the news and the internet? 

 

 

"A half dozen Republican officials from the Reagan and Bush administrations have sent a letter of complaint to the GOP, appeaing in the NYTimes today:

 

"Dear Republican Colleague:"

 

 

Hi Ripple. These folks are Muslims who supported - worked for - Bush. I can understand the MCC position, but I cannot get my head around - or find sympathy for - anyone who worked for Bush. Particularly if he was perhaps taking out their relatives. Or perhaps their relatives were not in the theatre of war so he was okay with them...old Lincolnesque W'ya at the helm.

Read it again, please.

Sean in Ottawa

Something I learned today about the location that I am not sure if everyone is already aware of:

The location is not 2 blocks from where the towers stood. It is two blocks from the outer edge of the entire complex area and in fact 12 blocks from the closest footprint of the towers.

Not that distance should matter but the misleading information and exaggeration is still relevant.

There is also a mosque going in the other direction -- about 12 blocks the other way (so about 24 blocks from this one).

If the people of the United States really wanted to discuss the appropriateness of the mosque and they wanted the new site to be a beakon of "freedom." Then you would think the greatest possible message would be to put it on the site and open it with the attendence of the Mayor, President etc.

VanGoghs Ear

deleted

VanGoghs Ear

my post was directed at George and his suprise that any muslims would support Bush  - He must see the world in a very B&W way I was thinking and looked for link to a story I remember reading about the large number of Iraqi boys born in 2004 who were named after George Bush.  things are never as simple as you might think

  

Ripple

Quote:
These folks are Muslims who supported - worked for - Bush. I can understand the MCC position, but I cannot get my head around - or find sympathy for - anyone who worked for Bush.

 

Do you limit it to these two options - the MCC opposing the mosque or war-mongering Bush supporters who don't love their families who support the mosque? I think there are Muslims who oppose the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, who opposed Bush, are, you know, decent human beings, and support the mosque.

 

By the way, can you link to the letter in the NYTimes - I can't find it and would like to know who "they" are.

VanGoghs Ear

i think it may have been in the documentary - Iraq in Fragments - where I heard this

Ripple

Hi VGE - gosh I'm being very unclear today!  I actually meant George's reference to the "Dear Republican Colleague" letter.

George Victor

Ripple wrote:

Quote:
These folks are Muslims who supported - worked for - Bush. I can understand the MCC position, but I cannot get my head around - or find sympathy for - anyone who worked for Bush.

 

Do you limit it to these two options - the MCC opposing the mosque or war-mongering Bush supporters who don't love their families who support the mosque? I think there are Muslims who oppose the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, who opposed Bush, are, you know, decent human beings, and support the mosque.

 

By the way, can you link to the letter in the NYTimes - I can't find it and would like to know who "they" are.

Hi again. I'm sure there are lots of Muslims who opposed the wars who opposed Bush and who are decent human beings and who support the mosque.  The folks I'm referring to here are Bush and Regan Republicans who apparently did not opposed the wars and who favour the mosque because the constitution says they should have  that freedom.  I don't know how Muslims could have supported Bush, and I'll let you decide for yourself if their positions are an exculpatory factor for them:

 

"As proud and patriotic Americans, we are grateful for all the rights our U.S. citizenship allows us, and we will always do our best to not only protect our rights but the rights of all others as well. May God Bless our nation, our freedoms, and our party.

David Ramadan
Vice Chair, Ethnic Coalitions, Republican Party of Virginia

Sherine El-Abd
President, New Jersey Federation of Republican Women

Randa Fahmy Hudome
Associate Deputy Secretary of Energy, Bush Administration

George Salem
Solicitor of Labor, Reagan Administration

Suhail Khan
Chairman, Conservative Inclusion Coalition

Samah A Norquist
Senior Advisor to Arab and Muslim Outreach, U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID), Bush Administration

Maysie Maysie's picture

Rally in NYC "Enough is Enough!"

Saturday August 21, 2010 

Quote:
Say No to Islamophobia!
Defend Mosques and Community Centers!
The Fight for Peace and Social Justice Requires Defense of All Under Attack!

There has been an explosion of racist attacks, verbal and physical, on masjids (mosques), proposed masjids, and Islamic community centers around the US. In episodes reminiscent of Kristallnacht, the Nazi destruction of Jewish synagogues and businesses, masjids have been picketed and vandalized and obscenities shouted at worshippers.

On September 11th the Tea Party and its allies plan to demonstrate at the site of the proposed Islamic masjid and community center in lower Manhattan. On the same day, Christian fundamentalists plan a "Burn the Quran" day at a Florida masjid.

Like Hitler before them, these bigots whip up hatred against a religious minority in the midst of an economic crisis. They want to divert popular anger away from the banks and corporations who rob millions of their jobs and homes. Hitler did not only target Jews, and the Tea Party bigots do not only target Muslims. They aim to build a fascist movement against all people of color, immigrants, union members, against the civil and human rights of all. They must be stopped!

Fidel

Rally in NYC wrote:
After 9/11 the government and media launched a witch-hunt against Muslims and Arabs, encouraging individual violent attacks. Even before 9/11, demonization was used to justify support for Israel's wars and U.S. efforts to control Arab and Iranian oil.

Since 9/11, as part of the bipartisan "war on terror," tens of thousands of Muslim men were fingerprinted, questioned and registered. Hundreds were detained with no regard to their constitutional rights, often abused and tortured, in a campaign of preemptive prosecution mirroring the practices in Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib and overseas secret detention centers.

I think Osama bin Laden is about as alive and well as Elvis is. They accuse Pakistan of hiding Elvis bin Laden, and Iraq and Afghanistan are alleged hideouts for the invisible enemy. It's as if the American inquisition has reversed the rule of law. Whole countries must now prove to the inquisition that they are not guilty of heresy and harboring covens of witches, or is it a coven of Elvis bin Ladens? It's anywhere from ridiculous to mass paranoid delusion , which is what inquisitions are usually all about.

[url=http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=20690]Michael Carmichael[/url] wrote:

Quote:
American Muslims have more informed and more nuanced views on the Middle East than mainstream Americans. Muslim American views on the politics of the Middle East and political trends in Europe, Africa and Asia are quite distinct from those of the Republican Party – very different, indeed. Perhaps, that is why the Republican Party is so adamantine in opposition to the cross-cultural understanding that Imam Feisal and his faith community in Lower Manhattan are threatening to bring to Lower Manhattan.

In the case of Cordoba House, America is being given a huge Rohrschach Test. America must decide whether she is prepared to live up to the ideals enshrined in the First Amendment: 

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Or not.

They are fighting powerful fascists within the cosmetic and military government in America.

Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture

I listened to a man interviewed on PBS the other day, and he asked, what happens to "sensitivity" when it come to the confederate flag?

writer writer's picture

[url=http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/22/opinion/22rich.html?_r=2&src=tptw]How Fox Betrayed Petraeus[/url]: ... [Project’s organizer, Imam Feisal Abdul] Rauf is no terrorist. He has been repeatedly sent on speaking tours by the Bush and Obama State Departments alike to promote tolerance in Arab and Muslim nations. As Jeffrey Goldberg of The Atlantic reported last week, Rauf gave a moving eulogy at a memorial service for Daniel Pearl, the Wall Street Journal reporter murdered by Islamist terrorists in Pakistan, at the Manhattan synagogue B’nai Jeshurun. Pearl’s father was in attendance. The Park51 board is chock-full of Christians and Jews. Perhaps the most threatening thing about this fledgling multi-use community center, an unabashed imitator of the venerable (and Jewish) 92nd Street Y uptown, is its potential to spawn yet another coveted, impossible-to-get-into Manhattan private preschool.

Quote:

Anti-'Ground Zero Mosque' Rally Freaks Out at Black Guy

While you spent your Sunday trying to teach your cat to go to the bathroom on a human toilet, a group of brave, freedom-loving Americans gathered in New York City to express their extreme disapproval with the Park 51 project, an al-Qaeda plot to build a community center featuring a swimming pool and auditorium on the very site where a Burlington Coat Factory once stood.

As you can see in the video above, at some point during the rally, a dark-skinned man wearing an Under Armor skullcap and what looks like a necklace with a Puerto Rican flag walked through the anti-"Mosque" crowd. The crowd, astutely recognizing that he was on his way to build the mosque, began to chant "NO MOSQUE HERE" at him. In the video, someone says, "run away, coward." The man turns around, perturbed. "Y'all motherfuckers don't know my opinion about shit," he says.

trippie

Land of the free and home of the brave. I thought they sung that every time at baseball games while they were eating hotdogs and apple pie.

writer writer's picture

The man in question is apparently a carpenter working at Ground Zero. His name is Kevin.

Protesters of the "ground zero mosque" made their case for consecrating the attack site by adorning it with this effigy of a keffiyeh-clad Muslim on a missile. Flickr/David Shankbone

[url=http://motherjones.com/mojo/2010/08/we-will-bombard-it-ground-zero-mosqu..."We Will Bombard It"[/url]: Mother Jones

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

In their psyches I suspect many americans know their government is killing indiscriminately in many parts of the world. Their fear is reasonable but instead of trying to reign in the military they just want to have their government kill more.  Most of the American population like being the bullies and thus can never have any empathy with the people they are killing daily.  

Only bullies can defend themselves and anyone that resists must be taught a lesson.  That is the bullies law.

VanGoghs Ear

good quote from Ron Paul on the issue

"What would we do if 75 percent of the people insisted that no more Catholic churches be built in New York City? The point being that majorities can become oppressors of minority rights as much as individual dictators. Statistics of support are irrelevant when it comes to the purpose of government in a free society - protecting liberty."

Not that this will make everyone suddenly love Ron Paul but he does seem more principled than most right wingers

VanGoghs Ear

more from the same article - http://www.campaignforliberty.com/article.php?view=1077

"They never miss a chance to use hatred toward Muslims to rally support for the ill conceived preventative wars. A select quote from soldiers from in Afghanistan and Iraq expressing concern over the mosque is pure propaganda and an affront to their bravery and sacrifice.

The claim is that we are in the Middle East to protect our liberties is misleading. To continue this charade, millions of Muslims are indicted and we are obligated to rescue them from their religious and political leaders. And, we're supposed to believe that abusing our liberties here at home and pursuing unconstitutional wars overseas will solve our problems."

It would be nice if it was Obama saying this ...

PS I'm not a Ron Paul supporter and I know about the racist newsletters and all that - I posted this about the words above not the man and his history

remind remind's picture

It would have been nice if Bush, Rumsfield, Pearle, McCain, Cheney and Rove had not gotten the USA and ergo Canada into this fucking mess, and for starting a lying race based iniative.

.... and fuck Ron Paul and the attempts to re-write history nowadays.

George Victor

Thanks, remind.  Yes, it was the neo-con element on the right wing of the GOP that started this, wasn't it.  One could almost  be led to believe that Obama led the charge. Selective memories at work, I guess. 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Ron Paul would support the right of this business to do what it wants because he does not believe in government regulation. I heard him say he supported business owners' in their right to serve who they want based upon whatever criteria they decide.  He also recently said that the federal government should take its boot off of the throat of the coal mining industry and let the local authorities regulate. Consistently libertarian and dangerous.

Cueball Cueball's picture

Fallout of Hate Is Spreading Across America from "Ground Zero"

Quote:
In May, a man walked into the Jacksonville Islamic Center in Northeast Florida during evening prayers and detonated a pipebomb. Fortunately, there were no injuries. (If the man had been Muslim and the House of worship a Christian church, the incident would have garnered wall-to-wall coverage, but while the story got plenty of local press it was ignored by CBS News, Fox, CNN and MSNBC.)

It was the most serious of a series of incidents in which mosques far from the supposedly hallowed earth of Ground Zero have been targeted. A mosque in Miami, Florida, was sprayed with gunfire last year. Mosques have been vandalized or set aflame in Brownstown, Michigan; Nashville, Tennessee; Arlington, Texas (where the mosque was first vandalized and then later targeted by arsonists); Taylor, South Carolina; Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania; Eugene, Oregon; Cape Girardeau, Missouri; Tempe, Arizona; and in both Northern and Southern California. A mosque in a suburb of Chicago has been vandalized four times in recent years.

 

al-Qa'bong

Quote:

The sermon was a nutty affair that tearfully made the transition from intifada to Holocaust and back again. 

I remember thinking, "this guy is actually blaming the Palestinians for the suffering of his parents during the Holocaust." I thought I had missed something because it was so ridiculous.

Then came the sermon's ending which was unforgettable. The rabbi concluded with the words from Ecclesiastes.

"To everything there is a season. A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, a time to reap ... A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance..."

He then looked up and said: "Now is the time to hate."

 

Israel and the anti-Muslim blow-up

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorialopinion/article/852506--siddiqui-american-anti-muslim-prejudice-goes-mainstream

 

Quote:

All this despite the fact that American Muslims are well integrated. They are more educated and more of them are in the workforce than the average American. Muslim women report monthly household incomes more nearly equal to men's, compared with women and men in other faith groups.

Esposito: "Islamophobia is fast becoming what anti-Semitism is - rooted in hostility and intolerance toward religious and cultural beliefs and a religious or racial group. The social cancer of Islamophobia must be recognized as unacceptable as anti-Semitism."

He was sad to see that the venerable Anti-Defamation League, "devoted to fighting defamation and prejudice," decided to oppose the Manhattan Muslim centre "not because Muslims do not have a right to build it but rather to protect the feelings of those opposed! Is this a criterion the ADL has used or would subscribe to in its own struggles against anti-Semitism?"

(Fareed Zakaria, Newsweek columnist and CNN host, has returned an award given him by the ADL, saying its stand went against its declared aim of opposition to discrimination and bigotry.)

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Quote:

All this despite the fact that American Muslims are well integrated. They are more educated and more of them are in the workforce than the average American. Muslim women report monthly household incomes more nearly equal to men's, compared with women and men in other faith groups.

 

I believe the Japanese community on this coast was in a similar situation just before they were rounded up and interned. Fortunately for them the war they were caught up in had an end date unlike the war on terror which will never end.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Doing a slight bit of thread drift in response to that...

I don't know if this was the case with Japanese-Canadians in B.C., but in California, a lot of them were successful farmers and owned some of the best farmland in the state.  The interment there was a also a way to steal that land from them and give it to the Anglos at low or no cost. 

Cueball Cueball's picture

It was most certainly true of German Jewery in the 30's. Indeed German Jews were probably the most integrated and successful Jewish community in Europe in comparison to countries like France, according to Hanna Arendt. Indeed it has been speculated that their success was part of what inspired the jealousy that was so easily manipulated by the NSDAP.

mahmud

George Victor wrote:

Cueball wrote:

George. The MCC is an organization of about six people, who make a lot of money being pundits who say the things that mainstream media like to hear. That is about it. They represent no one in the Muslim community, and are not influential.

I thought there was a sizeable following, Cue.  If they are indeed so limited in attractiveness in the Canadian Muslim community I'll retire from battle. (...)

In addition to what Cueball wrote: I am a former member of the MCC. The group is composed of 8 people maximum and have a web site. Tarek Fatah runs the show. The MCC has no following and no credibility within the Muslim communities. It  is disliked by Muslims from the left, the right, the centre and from none of the above, males and females. 

I would suggest you "retire from battle", GV. As I would suggest same to Sean in Ottawa. The MCC is a willing instrument for stirring islamophobia and defending this group is tantamount to condoning islamophobia.  

 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

I now know a lot more about the MCC than I did before.

They strike me as the Muslim equivalent of one of those Baltic state "governments-in-exile" that had tiny little offices in the NYC area during the Cold War.

mahmud

Ken Burch wrote:

I now know a lot more about the MCC than I did before.

They strike me as the Muslim equivalent of one of those Baltic state "governments-in-exile" that had tiny little offices in the NYC area during the Cold War.

You summed it up, Ken B. For that matter, in Muslim circles, Tarek Fatah is nicknamed "Tarek FatAhmed Chalabi".

George Victor

Irshad Manji's article on the Globe's op-ed Friday, shows the reform side of Islam (like the MCC).

She would ask the imam, "Where will the men's side of this mosque be?"

"As I wrestle with the issues, I realize that an opportunity exists for something more constructive than anger...Americans have the opportunity right now to be clear about the civic values expected from any Islam practised at the site. That means setting aside bombast and asking the imam questions born of the highest American ideals: individual dignity and pruralism of ideas:

-"Will the swimming pool at Park51 be segregated between men and women at any time...?

- "May women lead congregational prayers any day of the week?

- "What will be taught about homosexuals? About agnostics? About atheists? About apostasy?

- "Where does one sign up for advance tickets to Salman Rishdie's lecture at Park51?"

"These questions aren't gratuitous. I, for one, remain haunted by the 300 Muslims chanting 'Death to Rushdie' .... on Sept. 10, 2001.  They gathered outside a theatre in Houston to protest against a visit by the novelist - the target of a 1989 death warrant from Iran's Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomaini...

'Through engagement that emphasizes questions like these, Americans of all faiths and fo faith at all may very well make the colourful neighbourhood around Ground Zero host to the most transparent, most democratic, most modern Islam - ever....It would turn the tables on the freedom-hating culture of al-Qaeda (and) would subvert the liberty-lashing culture of offence."

 

I understand that Irshad Manji worked at the offices of the Ontario NDP about the time you were connected there, mahmud.  Did she not always make such good sense?

 

  

Unionist

Cueball wrote:

It was most certainly true of German Jewery in the 30's. Indeed German Jews were probably the most integrated and successful Jewish community in Europe in comparison to countries like France, according to Hanna Arendt. Indeed it has been speculated that their success was part of what inspired the jealousy that was so easily manipulated by the NSDAP.

And in Eastern Europe, where millions were slaughtered, it must have been our isolation and poverty that inspired the jealousy that was so easily manipulated by the Nazis and their allies.

It lends new meaning to: "ya can't win".

George Victor

quote:

"I understand that Irshad Manji worked at the offices of the Ontario NDP about the time you were connected there, mahmud.  Did she not always make such good sense?"

 

How does her demand for sexual equality within Islam strike you, and her call for liberalization across all faiths?

Cueball Cueball's picture

Unionist wrote:
Cueball wrote:

It was most certainly true of German Jewery in the 30's. Indeed German Jews were probably the most integrated and successful Jewish community in Europe in comparison to countries like France, according to Hanna Arendt. Indeed it has been speculated that their success was part of what inspired the jealousy that was so easily manipulated by the NSDAP.

And in Eastern Europe, where millions were slaughtered, it must have been our isolation and poverty that inspired the jealousy that was so easily manipulated by the Nazis and their allies. It lends new meaning to: "ya can't win".

Is this worth it? Not really. The point is that National Socialist anti-semitism evolved in what was theoretically at least one of the most cosmopolitan and liberal societies in Europe at the time, where all of the laws restricting Jews had been eliminated. At the same time there was an very succesful and integrated urban Jewish population.

What happened in Poland is an extension of the movement that began there.

Are you really challenging the idea that the National Socialists played on the jealousy of the German working class and other "have nots" in society toward "rich" Jews cosmopolitant Jews. I thought so much was evident in their own propaganda.

The point is that "integration" of minorities becomes a focus point of racist backlash and becomes a point for manipulation often motivated by jealousy. Racists, are opposed to integration as a creed, so noting the success and "integration" of Muslims in American society, is really only highlighting the main source of the existential fear that motivates working class racism.

This is true of racism and racists, regardless if it is true or justified.

Cueball Cueball's picture

George Victor wrote:

Irshad Manji's article on the Globe's op-ed Friday, shows the reform side of Islam (like the MCC).

You realize that Irshad Manji's experience of Islamic theology amounts to a 6 month stint at a religious school in Vancouver? I ask you, if you were asking for credible insights into any area of study, say Physics, would you rely on someone who completed half a semester of a first year university course in Physics?

This is not to say that lay-persons don't have a right to comment on any subject they choose, but to point out that when they do, it's not generally accepted that they have any particular authority in that field of specialization.

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