Why Won't the Opposition Topple the Government?

86 posts / 0 new
Last post
Liberaler
Why Won't the Opposition Topple the Government?

I am not here to talk Partisan politics. I am sure there are lots of us out there regardless of political background that want to see this joke of a government brought down. They have done nothing but mess everything up. They did lose the confidence back in December but Harper who want's nothing but power shut down parilament for a month so he could keep his grasp on power. But still to this day nothing has changed. Raitt is caught in a scandle, Baird was insulting Toronto. What makes Raitt so special? Harper fired his Quebec minister for leaving top seceret documents at his girlfriends house. Raitt leaves documents on the isotopes at CTV'S Ottawa Bureau and keeps her job? Give me a break! The Conservatives have to go.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

First, an election call right now means a summer election, which I doubt anyone but hard core politicos want. I think a lot of folks will resent their summer vacations interrupted by an election. Second, the obvious replacement for the Conservatives are the Liberals, and under Iggy's leadership, will probably be as bad as the Cons, or maybe worse. As for the NDP and BQ, the current polling I've seen don't really give them much of an increase, if any, over the last election results, so why bother? 

Lard Tunderin Jeezus Lard Tunderin Jeezus's picture

While I agree with Boom Boom that Iggy is little better than Harper, I agree with Liberaler that Harper has got to go. If Canadians must see for themselves that Ignatieff is a petty poseur pimping for power, so be it.

A majority government is highly unlikely. Let's go ahead and put Iggy in power, and then we'll tear him down once he's proven himself unworthy. 

It shouldn't take too long.

The point?

Dysfunctional government is bound to result from a dysfunctional electoral system. It's our duty to put the boots to it until everyone recognizes the need for change.

Lard Tunderin Jeezus Lard Tunderin Jeezus's picture

remind wrote:

Iggy, was told to prop up the Conservatives by the Canadian bakers, end of story.

Ah yes - that wretched cabal.

...probably bribed our politicos with tempting pies and pastries.

Sineed

Boom Boom's hit the nail on the head.  The last election didn't make any difference, except cost a bunch of our money (and it cost us our totally cool hard-working MP, Peggy Nash, a vocal advocate for this riding, who lost to that self-centred paragon of naked ambition, Gerard Kennedy, who ignores his constituents and is a jerk to his staff.  But I digress...).

Raitt apparently is one of the heirs apparent, who is being groomed to replace the leader someday (according to the CBC; I'm not exactly a conservative insider).

But the gaffes are piling up, what with John Baird telling Toronto to "fuck off," and all.  (And conservatives continue to be bewildered by why Toronto doesn't vote conservative.)  It's as if Stephen has had such a tight grip on his MPs for so long, they're starting to slip through his fingers.

How about Lisa Raitt's former EA showing up in court to launch a (failed) injunction preventing the release of those incriminating tapes?  For an unemployed twenty-something, she sure has lots of money to pay lawyers in support of the boss who fired her.

We need to be patient.  And in the meantime, enjoy the show.

ottawaobserver

I just want to ask Liberaler what's any worse about the Harper government now than in January?

Sineed

Lard Tunderin Jeezus wrote:

remind wrote:

Iggy, was told to prop up the Conservatives by the Canadian bakers, end of story.

Ah yes - that wretched cabal.

...probably bribed our politicos with tempting pies and pastries.

It is dangerous to underestimate the diabolical power of sugary carbs.  I'd vote with the conservatives for a tray of chocolate cherry baklava.

remind remind's picture

Iggy, was told to prop up the Conservatives by the Canadian bankers, end of story.

remind remind's picture

Lard Tunderin Jeezus wrote:
remind wrote:
Iggy, was told to prop up the Conservatives by the Canadian bakers, end of story.

Ah yes - that wretched cabal. ...probably bribed our politicos with tempting pies and pastries.

Oops. LOL, thanks for the huge laugh though!

Ghislaine

Sineed wrote:

Boom Boom's hit the nail on the head.  The last election didn't make any difference, except cost a bunch of our money (and it cost us our totally cool hard-working MP, Peggy Nash, a vocal advocate for this riding, who lost to that self-centred paragon of naked ambition, Gerard Kennedy, who ignores his constituents and is a jerk to his staff.  But I digress...).

Raitt apparently is one of the heirs apparent, who is being groomed to replace the leader someday (according to the CBC; I'm not exactly a conservative insider).

But the gaffes are piling up, what with John Baird telling Toronto to "fuck off," and all.  (And conservatives continue to be bewildered by why Toronto doesn't vote conservative.)  It's as if Stephen has had such a tight grip on his MPs for so long, they're starting to slip through his fingers.

How about Lisa Raitt's former EA showing up in court to launch a (failed) injunction preventing the release of those incriminating tapes?  For an unemployed twenty-something, she sure has lots of money to pay lawyers in support of the boss who fired her.

We need to be patient.  And in the meantime, enjoy the show.

 

Apparently Raitt's fired former employee who keeps making this huge errors and fought the release in court, is the daughter of one of Iggy's largest fundraisers. I am trying to find the link, but I believe I read that in the Globe this morning.

Lard Tunderin Jeezus Lard Tunderin Jeezus's picture

A pertinent column from Duncan Cameron:

Quote:
What terrifies Harper is not another minority government. He is learning how to make what he can from a less than ideal situation. His only concern is losing control of the economic agenda, and having to face a united front in the House of Commons, before he is ready to face the public.

Peter3

Ghislaine wrote:

Apparently Raitt's fired former employee who keeps making this huge errors and fought the release in court, is the daughter of one of Iggy's largest fundraisers. I am trying to find the link, but I believe I read that in the Globe this morning.

It's in the sidebar to this story.

remind remind's picture

Ghislaine wrote:
Apparently Raitt's fired former employee who keeps making this huge errors and fought the release in court, is the daughter of one of Iggy's largest fundraisers. I am trying to find the link, but I believe I read that in the Globe this morning.

The employee is the one making the errors? LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

And now apparently, you are trying to portray Raitt as the victim. She who apparently has been trying to sabatoge her own collegue in charge of Chalk River, and playing politics with people around the world's lives, and thinks it is sexy to do so.

Being the daughter of one of Iggy's largest fundraisers just signifies further that the Cons and the Liberals are all in the same bed together.

 

 

madmax

The Cowardly, incompetent party , AKA the Liberal party Tongue out,  will HUFF (and poll) PUFF (and poll) before ever thinking about determining to bring down a government. Then they will consult with their banking CEOs on Bay street to ask if they will be allowed to bring down a government. The Liberals had a chance to change government and spare us the cost of an election but weren't allowed to because their CEOs told them they shouldn't dare.

With something like 70+ times of being joined at the hip with the Conservative Party, the problem is that the Liberals never find any courage unless there is a poll telling them they have courage, and a CEO that gives them permission to have courage.

When the Loyal opposition is a cowardly lion, the Canadian Public don't expect much in return. 

The effective opposition is the NDP, and should there be an election like many in the past, the NDP goes up and it goes down, but the principal role of the NDP has always remained the same. 

Perhaps the Liberals will support the NDP bill on EI reform.

 

 

Bookish Agrarian

Any chance this latest round of light element gazing by the puffery, er I mean punditry and the Liberals has anything to do with the good press the NDP was getting on that EI reform bill.

Nah - the Liberals and their friends in the media wouldn't be that transparent would they?Innocent

Debater

remind wrote:

Iggy, was told to prop up the Conservatives by the Canadian bankers, end of story.

It's hardly the end of the story unless you like to make simplistic conclusions.  Are you just going on what Lisa Raitt said?  That's hardly a reliable source.

In any event, even if the Liberals want to have an election right now, they can't do it unless the BQ and NDP agree to it.  There are therefore multiple reasons as to why we probably won't have an election this summer.  The pensions issue is another factor.

Fidel

Okay then, it must be because Whigs and Tories ARE TWO WINGS OF THE EXACT SAME PRIVATE PROPERTY PARTY! Charade they are.

Ghislaine

remind wrote:

Ghislaine wrote:
Apparently Raitt's fired former employee who keeps making this huge errors and fought the release in court, is the daughter of one of Iggy's largest fundraisers. I am trying to find the link, but I believe I read that in the Globe this morning.

The employee is the one making the errors? LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

And now apparently, you are trying to portray Raitt as the victim. She who apparently has been trying to sabatoge her own collegue in charge of Chalk River, and playing politics with people around the world's lives, and thinks it is sexy to do so.

Being the daughter of one of Iggy's largest fundraisers just signifies further that the Cons and the Liberals are all in the same bed together.

 

 

I am not sure where you got that I was trying to portray Raitt as the victim? It was this employee that left the things at CTV and the Chronicle-Herald, however the buck always stops with the Minister. (And it was an entire week that the Secret docs were missing, so Raitt should have done way more than she did during this timeframe).

 

My point was to show that there is really no difference between the Cons and Libs.

remind remind's picture

Bookish Agrarian wrote:
Any chance this latest round of light element gazing by the puffery, er I mean punditry and the Liberals has anything to do with the good press the NDP was getting on that EI reform bill.

Nah - the Liberals and their friends in the media wouldn't be that transparent would they?Innocent

Well if the Toronto Star's  transparent "secret meeting" headlines of today are anything to go by, I would say "yes, sir, anything to knock the NDP off the air waves and stir the left into faux outrage, at the same time will do".

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

I've decided I am so sick of the Cons right now that I'd like to see an election happen, and soon. Maybe the Nova Scotia NDP results tonight will affect a national contest.

Debater

remind wrote:

Bookish Agrarian wrote:
Any chance this latest round of light element gazing by the puffery, er I mean punditry and the Liberals has anything to do with the good press the NDP was getting on that EI reform bill.

Nah - the Liberals and their friends in the media wouldn't be that transparent would they?Innocent

Well if the Toronto Star's  transparent "secret meeting" headlines of today are anything to go by, I would say "yes, sir, anything to knock the NDP off the air waves and stir the left into faux outrage, at the same time will do".

I don't think the NDP was getting much attention actually, so I don't think there was an attempt to do anything to the NDP in terms of coverage.

The main stories this week have involved the Conservatives because they have gotten themselves into a lot of scandals.

Bookish Agrarian

Of course YOU didn't.  Where's that rolleyes thingy when you need it.

Fidel

I loved it when Jack asked the speaker of the House in a loud voice concerning Raitt and the sexy opportunism, What in hell is wrong with these people? 

West Coast Greeny

Ignatieff isn't (and shouldn't) take down the government this session because he knows he would lose the next election if it was called today. He's only polling about 3 points clear of the Conservatives at the moment, and when you factor in the (still) huge edge in fundraising $$$ the Conservatives possess, and the very high risk that the opposition will see a backlash from voters who really, really don't want to see a 4th federal election in 5 years (this isn't Italy, dammit), the most likely outcome is another Conservative minority. This simply leaves the Liberals even more broke, and even more impotent than they were before.

KenS

Peter3 wrote:

Ghislaine wrote:

Apparently Raitt's fired former employee who keeps making this huge errors and fought the release in court, is the daughter of one of Iggy's largest fundraisers. I am trying to find the link, but I believe I read that in the Globe this morning.

It's in the sidebar to this story.

Idle curiousity department.

I'm curious whether she might also be connected to John MacDonnell, former Pres of the NSPCs and currently Peter McKays Chief of Staff.

And the sidebar says daddy Ralston is a Ignatieff fundraiser, not that he is a big one. I know of him from his business position, but never heard of him in politics.

NorthReport

There will be no election call from ignatieff because he does not have the numbers. And he knows it. What right winger is going to vote Liberal when you can get the true right with the Cons.

Ignatieff's shift right angers Grits

Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff is shifting his party to the right. He's killed the centre-left coalition. He's defended the tar sands. Now, he's supporting the Conservatives' law and order legislation.

He's taking a big risk.

 

When Liberals "tack right" ideologically, or have a leader whose image is right-of-centre, like John Turner and Paul Martin, they lose elections.

 

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opinion/westview/ignatieffs-shift-right...

NDPP

I disagree - what ends up happening is that everybody shifts rightwards - this is exactly what has been happening for some time.

Fidel

NoDifferencePartyPooper wrote:

I disagree - what ends up happening is that everybody shifts rightwards - this is exactly what has been happening for some time.

So youre saying the Liberals are basically just as far to the right as the Tories, and that Canadians who did show up at the polls rewarded them for it with all-time low voter support for the Liberal Party in last October's election? I get the feeling some of those strategic voters and long-time LP supporters were so disgusted that they simply stayed home. And if I was a closet LP supporter, I certainly wouldnt reveal my political allegiance to anyone at this point for fear of embarrassment.

Infosaturated

remind wrote:

Being the daughter of one of Iggy's largest fundraisers just signifies further that the Cons and the Liberals are all in the same bed together.

 

I have been so sad ever since Dion was sabotaged by his own party and the coalition that could have been so great for this country failed.  I was foolish enough to think at one point that just maybe Iggy wouldn't be quite as bad as  I thought he would be. At any rate, he would be better than Harper.  Now I realize he won't be even a tiny bit better.  In fact he might be much much worse.  Because Harper has had a minority he hasn't been able to do as much damage as he is capable of.  I fear that many Canadians will be so relieved to be rid of Harper that they will support Iggnatieff.  Instead of what I had hoped for, either the coalition or at least a liberal government propped up by the NDP I fear we are headed for a right of centre liberal party propped up by the Conservatives.  Basically, business is running the government and they don't care if it's the Conservatives propping up the Liberals or the Liberals propping up the Conservatives as long as they are pulling the puppet-strings. By putting Ignatieff in as Liberal leader they have prevented a situation where the NDP would hold the balance of power as they would have under Dion.

ottawaobserver

Hey, Infosaturated ... don't be sad and don't get mad ... get EVEN.  Get out and meet up with your local NDP riding association, register for the August convention in Halifax, make out a small donation if you can afford it (or a bigger one if you can afford that), and start talking to your friends, neighbours and co-workers about another way to do things.  That's what they did in Nova Scotia, and what we have to do now in the rest of the country.

NorthReport

This is just about the funniest thing I have ever read here at babble. Laughing

There will be no election now 'til Harper calls it. 

Ignatieff had his chance with the coalition and fucked up big time. Nothing more of any real consequence now will be said on this issue. Smile

Liberaler wrote:

I am not here to talk Partisan politics. I am sure there are lots of us out there regardless of political background that want to see this joke of a government brought down. They have done nothing but mess everything up. They did lose the confidence back in December but Harper who want's nothing but power shut down parilament for a month so he could keep his grasp on power. But still to this day nothing has changed. Raitt is caught in a scandle, Baird was insulting Toronto. What makes Raitt so special? Harper fired his Quebec minister for leaving top seceret documents at his girlfriends house. Raitt leaves documents on the isotopes at CTV'S Ottawa Bureau and keeps her job? Give me a break! The Conservatives have to go.

West Coast Greeny

Or start fundraising for the Liberals or NDP so they don't have to fear bankruptcy when they fight another election.

NorthReport

Don Martin: Harper puts election talk to bed with soothing tale on stimulus

Quote:
The best part of the update wasn't even in the document. The government's gloat that 80 per cent of the stimulus cash is ready to roll out the door is clearly embellished, but that's clearly enough progress to halt election speculation until fall at the earliest. For that reason alone, this report card rates an 'A'.
Laughing

 

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2009/06/11/...

Infosaturated

I have been against Layton ever since he felled the Liberal government when the Kelowna accord and national daycare were close to becoming a reality.  That told me he is corrupt just like any other politician.  He was more interested in what would benefit him rather than what would be best for Canada. He could have allowed that legistlation to pass and felled the government afterwards.  Whatever his reasons, I hold him directly responsible for the lack of national daycare and for the failure of the Kelowna accord.

Even so, under current conditions, I would vote for him if the NDP had any chance in my riding.  As it stands I live in Montreal in the Plateau so the Bloc will take this riding no matter what I do. 

Other than I won't vote Conservative or Liberal, I really don't know where I will put my vote.  Either Green or Marijuana. 

Now that Iggy is leading the Liberals I honestly don't think it makes much difference if he leads the government or Harper does.  I do hope that the NDP makes some gains for the sole reason that they are still better than the Liberals and the Conservatives.  It would be great if the Conservatives were destroyed and the political scene were dominated by the Liberals and NDP, but I don't see that happening any time soon. 

About the only thing I am left to hope for is that the NDP makes some progress through left-leaning Liberals becoming so disgusted with the party that they just can't stomach it anymore.  Actually, I take that back.  I hope that Iggy leads the Liberals to such a resounding defeat that the party leadership completely loses it's credibility even if that means being stuck with Harper again.

Rexdale_Punjabi Rexdale_Punjabi's picture

NDP needs a dif leader but me I cant really see NDP with no Layton doesnt seem like there another leader for my Riding. I wanna knocc the silver spoon outa Kirsty Duncan or w.e her name is mouth. Rich as shit since the beginning and wants to support, hmm lets see I remember her election brochure. More police on the streets, tough on crime, tougher drug laws, and she "liberal". To wont vote conservative but the perception a lot of ppl have of the NDP from what I seen and heard is that only ppl who dont work and want a free ride will vote NDp n im like yo get yall heads on straight niggas yall the working class they on ur side stop believing the right wing propoganda im like so u had bob rae. Did mike harris make u any richer? they say na we got poorer so I just say aii NDP would proly fund rehab go to it, turn off ur tv, grab a book, n stop smokin cracc. shit.

 

Really tho I seen ppl who say they afriad of a NDP gov cuz they gonna spend all the money n put us into debt I jus laugh n I say yo we in debt. I really dont like any party right now tho cuz Lib n Con are just bildeberg controlled shit and NDP seems corrupt and it wont win. We need a solution and fast. I dont want a MMS lol.

 

and really the NDP cant come close to campagining like the Libs and Cons. Last election I seen bare liberal signs, some convervative and I could count the NDP ones with my fingers. And not just 1 riding but 3-4 in the northwest across racial, income, and other lines.

 

Conclusion is the NDP aint gonna do anything, the problem we have with this system tho is that for example if we make more parties even if ppl vote but not win the seat we effectively have no power. We need a united front for the left cuz the right got the cons n ima have to say the liberals too who can take some voters who would never vote right by having them think they the sensible solution to those "evil NDP commies", or other propoganda that they'll use basically they say we aint as bad as the cons vote for us. We need something new 1 party tho cuz of this fucced up shit or a bunch but have to win seats. Str8 up I can see my riding having it because if it appealing a lot of yung ppl will vote and u can easily just talk to the older ppl instead of givin bs speeches that dont mean shit. But, the media will jump on it and try and discredit u know like saying esp if it a u know party for the workin class out the workin class how a lot of ppl may not have the same credentials as others, n a lot of ppl will think they stupider and stuff so u know we need other ideas of how ot get it together. Think this deserves another thread still

Bookish Agrarian

"I have been against Layton ever since he felled the Liberal government when the Kelowna accord and national daycare were close to becoming a reality."

 

Ah the great lie. Martin himself said an election was coming. The NDP proposed ways to fast track some of those initatives, the Liberals refused.  What the Liberals wanted was to use those issues as tools to move votes in an election, not to actually make progress on them.  They could have been finalized, but it was the LIBERALS who decided to play political games. 

The Liberals also decided to get an early election by not entertaining any changes on health care. National daycare had been promised for a decade and nothing done. If the Liberals had beleived their own lies they would have agreed to the modest request of halting the further privatization of our health care system and some modest investment in it. They don't - so the didn't. The rest is just Liberal justification for being lazy, liars and cheats and revisonist history.

remind remind's picture

Exactly BA!

Infosaturated

We are talking about a difference of a couple of months.  There was going to be an election after the final Gomery report either way.  As I recall Martin had made some concessions just not all the concessions demanded by Layton.  There was no emergency.  There was nothing happening that demanded an immediate change of leadership.  Yes the Liberals had been promising National Daycare for years without doing it but that time but it was finally on the verge of happening.  Sure they wanted to haul it out (and the Kelowna accord) to counter the last Gomery report to strengthen their chances at the polls.  That only underlines the point that those two things would have happened if not for Layton's power play. 

But as I said, I still think that the NDP is the best viable party in Canada by far because the Liberals are just the Conservatives with a new name.

Bookish Agrarian

Martin offered NO concessions.  None.  Martin engineered his own defeat on purpose to try and get his little goodies out to the public ahead of time BEFORE the Gomery report was released.  It was a carrot to get by the Gomery report.  We'll never know but I would be willing to bet that the Liberals would have found ways to pull back on all of it as they had done time and time again.

Let's be clear.  Heading into that election Martin still had the lead.  Then the Liberals went on to run the worst campaign in their history save the last one.  None of that is at the feet of Layton.  It is all at the feet of Paul Martin.  This Liberal revisionist history of their own failings is utter bs.

Stockholm

I don't know why we even still argue about this ridiculous myth when there are literally about three people in all of canada who still cling to that ridiculous crap about how there was this "avalanche" of progressive legislation that the Liberals were going to pass in record time if only the NDP hadn't brought down the government. Its common knowledge that the Liberals never wanted to actually pass child care legislation or pass the Kelowna accord. The whole idea was always for the government to fall BEFORE those things were passed so that they could serve as carrots that the Liberals would dangle before voters during the election campaign. Of course they tried to dangle them in the '06 election campaign - but it didn't impress the electorate enough for them to vote Liberal. The NDP and BQ offered the Liberals an opportunity to pass all that stuff really fast and then call an immediate election and Martin refused. Of course he refused - because Liberals never want to ACTUALLY do anything like national child care etc... because they don't really believe in it and also because if they actually deliver it - they can no longer keep promsiing it in election after election after election!

In any case, it has been pointed out 1,000 times that the whole issue is moot because in Nov. 2005, the NDP didn't have enough seats to save the Martin government even if it wanted to - the BQ and Tories at that point had more seats than the NDP and Liberals anyways.  

Infosaturated

I am definitely NOT a Liberal.  I don't think National Daycare and the Kelona accord (2 items) qualify as an avalanche.  You say they wouldn't have passed before the next election anyway but we will never know because Layton decided the government had to fall immediately. It is simply not true that Martin didn't make any concessions.  I am NOT a Martin supporter. I know full-well that as finance minister he helped decimate social programs.  I am referring to nothing but a few months.  Tell me what the urgency was.  Explain to me what was so urgent that an election couldn't have waited a few months.  I agree that Martin ran such a bad campaign that if someone told me he lost deliberately I would have no trouble believing it.  That doesn't absolve Layton of his actions.  By the way, I thought the campaign he ran was as lowball as the Conservatives which drove my opinion of Layton even farther down. He doesn't seem capable of rising about the fray and talking straight to Canadians about what the NDP could realistically accomplish in four years (within the limits of Canada's economics) if given the chance.

He never talks about what other countries with social nets have accomplished. He never compares our health care system to France's, only to the States. There are successful eldercare and education systems around the world that work and cost the same or less than what we pay now.

Layton needs to advertise other countries in the world that have achieved what we want and what it does for them. He needs to inspire people to believe that the NDP vision is not some unaffordable fairytale that would either bankrupt Canada or raise taxes on the middle-class.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Interesting comments on Politics tonight - among them was that an election is unlikely because the fiscal stimulus spending will stop at least for 37 days, and in a time of severe recession. No party wants to be responsible for putting a halt to stimulus spending.

Stockholm

" It is simply not true that Martin didn't make any concessions."

Tell us what concessions martin made in the Fall of 2005 - there were NONE whatsoever. He WANTED to be brought down because he thought from looking at the polls that he could get a majority - he engineered his own defeat. When Martin actually wanted to avoid an election in May 2005 - he was willing to make concessions to the NDP and the NDP was happy to keep him in power for another six months - but then Martin decided he was fed up with having to do all those progressive things that the NDP was demanding so he refused to make any further concessions. Then the NDP and the BQ offered to fast track his child care and kelowna bills so they would get passed before an election and again Martin refused. What can you do when you're dealing with a vain stubborn man like Paul Martin who insists on lying and playing games every step of the way. As years pass its becoming more and more apparent that he realy was an absolutely dreadful PM - he truly was Canada's Gordon Brown.

Anyways we have been through this a million times with these Liberal plants who try to keep this ridiculous myth alive. No one outside of a handful of Liberal bloggers believe it.

"I am definitely NOT a Liberal."

Someone named Richard Nixon once said "I am not a crook"

Lard Tunderin Jeezus Lard Tunderin Jeezus's picture

Boom Boom wrote:

Interesting comments on Politics tonight - among them was that an election is unlikely because the fiscal stimulus spending will stop at least for 37 days, and in a time of severe recession. No party wants to be responsible for putting a halt to stimulus spending.

The fiscal stimulus spending is dependent upon provincial & municipal funding as well. In fact, as I understand it, the federal government reimburses as the projects are invoiced. So how does a 37 day election halt any stimulus spending that's approved and underway? Will the provinces and municipalities refuse to pay in the meantime?

Peter3

I am astonished that anybody is still trying to sell the horseshit fiction that Jack Layton is the reason that aboriginal Canadians and working families still have problems.  Anybody with one eye and a brain bigger than a pea would have been able to see that Paul Martin was doing everything in his power to ensure that the House fell as soon as possible, if they were even slightly clued into what was going on. 

Paul Martin was extended olive branch after olive branch and swatted them all away at the insistence of the buffoons and political amateurs that passed for his political advisors.  It was their advice that Paul Martin was only bolstering Jack Layton's credibility by extending the parliament and since Mr. Martin was a lead pipe cinch to win the election, the wonderful things like daycare and the Kelowna accord that would theoretically be at risk if he lost were really safe as houses.  This is so well known I can't believe anybody is still perpetuating the idiotic whine that Jack was the villain. The Liberals then ran one of the most incomprehensibly stupid and abjectly incompetent campaigns in Canadian history and handed victory to Stephen Harper. If you want to blame somebody, blame Scott Reid.

The idea that the NDP had some duty to play in to Paul Martin's cynical games is absurd. What party leader in his right mind would ever take politically suicidal decisions on voting?

Get over it.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Lard Tunderin Jeezus wrote:

is dependent upon provincial & municipal funding as well. In fact, as I understand it, the federal government reimburses as the projects are invoiced. So how does a 37 day election halt any stimulus spending that's approved and underway? Will the provinces and municipalities refuse to pay in the meantime?

Not all federal stimulus monies have been spent or even recieved as of yet - that's what the municipalities all across the country are complaining about! Can that money flow during an election?  Can there be any new projects or spending approved during the duration of an election?

Lard Tunderin Jeezus Lard Tunderin Jeezus's picture

According to Harper's fiscal report card, 80% of the monies are allocated.

We all know this is bullshit, but why shouldn't the stupid bastard be made to wear it?

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

That's a good point, actually.Kiss

Infosaturated

Peter3 wrote:

Anybody with one eye and a brain bigger than a pea would have been able to see that Paul Martin was doing everything in his power to ensure that the House fell as soon as possible, if they were even slightly clued into what was going on.

 I already acknowledge that Martin's campaign was so bad that he couldn't have done worse he if he tried. And fine, have it your way, I am clueless with a brain no bigger than a pea.

Now that we have that out of the way I think I am a pretty typical Canadian who doesn't belong to a political party and who leans to the left on most issues but until now haven't really seen the NDP as able to win enough votes to challenge the Liberals for the centre-left vote. I would have voted Liberal if Dion were the leader but I will never vote for Iggy because I percieve him to be way too far right. I am not deeply informed on politics so a lot of my knowledge is from mainstream news slightly dimmed by time. Before you put me down for it you might think about what you want from the average Canadian which I would think is support for social policies and maybe votes for the NDP or a party that is farther left than that.

You aren't going to achieve your goals by insulting people and talking down to them. You may make yourself feel superior so if that is your goal have at it. I haven't spoken disrespectfully to anyone and I haven't tried to promote any right-wing philosophies or tried to drum up support for Liberals. Sometimes progressives are your own worst enemy. If you want regular people to be less afraid to trust the federal NDP then interacting with ignorant people like me just might help you find ways to reach out to the soft-left.

 

Someone earlier in this thread posted something to the effect of when people tell him they don't support the NDP because of deficits he just says we already have a huge deficit ha ha. Well people are genuinely afraid that the NDP would deliver heavy taxes on the middle-classes and even more massive deficits. You won't convince them otherwise just by saying it isn't true.

Rexdale_Punjabi Rexdale_Punjabi's picture

I got my way of talking n explaining u know info one thing I see is a problem for the NDP or any left leaning party the the Coporate Party never has is having to balance shit. What I mean is k NDP tries to put more minority faces on their campaign this gets twisted and feeds the middle class view that "they" are taking over and NDP is "their" party and "they" wanna take "our" money. It doesnt and it gets screwed too. Anything it does it gains one place loses another the bigger parties dont have to balance their shit as much or it seems be as careful because they have a lot more votes they can basically rely on and have more room to maneuver. There are only a couple areas that the NDP can rely on to support them and even then sometimes they go to the Libs. That a big problem the NDP has it harder. It doesnt have the mainstream appeal because the liberals are painted as the centreleft party alternative to the cons and the NDP is supposed to be for hard-line leftists and socialists. That could change with how the libs are acting but atm the general view is that there are 4 main parties instead of 3. And most canadians can only vote for 2 of those parties. The NDP needs to re-structure and retool itself and I can see it getting pretty big in a bit. Another thing that screws them over is exactly the fact that their votes are spread out and when they compare % of votes to % of seats they usually lower while last time Con esp was higher.

 

So it got a bunch of stuff against it that needs to be adressed but not even looking at polls I can see them getting 15-18% of the vote that my gut feeling still. Cuz 20 seems to high but a 13 or 14 seems to low. Dont even take my word for it a gut feeling but it ends up being right. Conz are proly not gonna dip below 30 but proly not get to 34 either. Bloc IDK. Liberal are not gonna reach 40 def 38 if they luccy otherwise except 34-37 still. IDk if that what the polls are indicating but that what it seems like. Idk how I get these gut feelings but they there and take them for what u will.

 

As for the GTA I can see some areas getting con in like brampton n I honestly dont understand why but they more socially conservative it just old indian ppl being just that basically. Id hope for the NDP to win in my riding n they proly got a lot more chance this time around but it could be a contest I can see ndp gettin 35-38% in my riding not a win but better then b4. Across TO  idk how many seats or w.e there are but I see NDP def gaining not replacing liberals but they will be more noticiable didnt they only get like 2 or 3 seats last time? I see them gettin like 3 more seats in TO.

 

Me personally no party really appeals to me fully a lil while ago I might have said liberal but that would be like 06 times and even then I didnt know shit I still dont but u know what I mean. One thing I dont like is that the NDP ends up compromising itself and what it stands for if you asked me for specific u know examples in Parmliament I couldnt give them but agen im talkin general tip. I think if it stood up for what it is more it would proly gain votes if not that atleast more respect.

Infosaturated

Thanks Rexdale.  I think the NDP could improve this time around if they play their cards right.  Last election I was all about "anybody but Harper".  I even did a vote trade with someone in BC.  Now that Iggy is so much like Harper the "anybody but Harper" motivation is gone.

I think one issue is remembering that the average or upper level working-class sees itself as the middle-class now.  The Conservatives and Liberals have framed themselves as being the parties for the middle-class.  The upper classes and the wealthy have convinced the middle-class that what's good for them is what's good for the middle-class.  Many in the middle-class are convinced that it is social programs like welfare that are draining the coffers.

Pages