Get ready for Justin-mania!

428 posts / 0 new
Last post
Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Some guy on the Huff Post posted this:

A young man who has experienced all of Canada. And understands what it means to be Canadian.

Unlike the tunnel visioned Harper and the non existent Mulcair.

I replied with this:

 

What are you talking about. As a New Democrat,I say to you lets argue over ideas. But leave the name calling and innuendo aside. Your post is objectionable and insulting. And one other thing my friend. Why do you Liberals have to go out of your way to say that only you guys love this country? Eh? I served 25 years in the Canadian Navy and would suggest that my love of country and dedication to national service is equal to yours or his. But, surprise, surprise, I have voted NDP all my life. Are you going to tell me that automatically makes me incapable of understanding the nation in which I grew up and served? This is so typical. You guys act like you are the only ones who understand this country. Where do you get off thinking this way? What makes you think you have a monopoly on love of country and devotion to that which makes us Canadian. This is a dated argument you want to have. Canadians have matured since the times of Justin's father, and have a more adult and grown up view of themselves. Don't count on patronizing Canadians and stroking their egos, thinking this is your way back to power. It won't work, and you will be dissapointed.

And I think, this is the key to neturalizing this LPC, we are Canada, stuff. Its about making sure people understand that love of country is not exclusive and that we have matured as a nation and as the citizenry. This guy is so old-fashioned for a man claimig to be hip and with it. I am more certain then ever that Tom and the NDP can kick his sorry butt.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

Really, if this is all he has, the same tired old LPC platitudes, he'd be better to stay at home. If this is his "A-Game", he's finished.

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

I think NDP and Con apparatchiks should be lining up to support JT's leadership campaign.

Except for the whole "insult to mature political discourse" thing.

socialdemocrati...

The sheer amount of attention being paid to Justin -- including an NDP + left-of-NDP web forum -- has to be worth something.

The guy has tons of in-built publicity.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

SD, Yep, what it tells you is its newsworth only because he's Trudeau's kid, this is how the media works, and this kind of fluff approach to public discourse is why we have been stuck with Lib and Tory governance over the duration of this country's existence.

lagatta

It is sad indeed. Now he is claiming to be an environmentalist, of all things. Environmentalism does not only involve outings to the great outdoors, or "challenging" nature as his late brother did. I've never heard him say much of substance about the Con's ecocidal actions, or indeed the far-from-good legacy of the Libs.

But hey, he and Sophie are so cute!!!

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

In one of the articles I saw on another forum, a poll was cited claiming a 'Lil Justin-led LPC would get 39%, to 32% for the Harpercrites, to only 20% for the NDP.  Had anybody else heard of this poll?

(supposedly, it was a Forum poll, fwiw).

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

What a pathetic performance by Justin. He truly sucked. He should have waited another four or five years, whatever.

Ippurigakko

39% vote for justin trudeau because canadian vote PERSON, not liberal platform, two reason 1. pierre's son and 2. handsome

canadian better not to be stupid.

janfromthebruce

Actually, I am starting to feel sick - all I see is a rich kid of a famous farther thinking he is "something". I got to see him in action a couple of years ago, right after the May 2011 election. Talking to a student audience about "youth empowerment". Of course, we all know it was all about getting his name and liberal brand out.

Anyway, when it came time for question and answers, he was asked questions about the recent election and of course the NDP sweep in Quebec and all the young MPs elected - he preceded to bash Ruth Ellen B., the single mother elected in a riding in which she didn't campaign and he had a smerk on his face. I was disgusted.

He just spent one hour talking about youth empowerment and young people getting involved in politics and changing their world but I guess he really was only talking about "certain" youth who should feel entitled. Unknown, young single moms need not apply who work in bars but rich boys with silver spoons up their butts, why my, that's different.

So when I watch this "fake show", I know it's fake. He doesn't believe a word he is saying. It's all about him, the liberal brand, and his family name. Everybody else is their to carry his water.

And the powerful know that Justin, coming from their neck of the woods, will be a good water boy for them, ensure they keep their share of the wealth of the land, and let Justin fake all that progressive crap.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

janfromthebruce wrote:

 

He just spent one hour talking about youth empowerment and young people getting involved in politics and changing their world but I guess he really was only talking about "certain" youth who should feel entitled. Unknown, young single moms need not apply who work in bars but rich boys with silver spoons up their butts, why my, that's different.

So remember...NEVER accept a silver spoon from a rich boy.  'Nuff said.

socialdemocrati...

Yeah, it's pretty obnoxious how much free publicity he gets from his father's legacy. But it is what it is.

 

thorin_bane

I had a long screed about the voices of the leaders. Anyway lets just say he doesn't have the sound of his fathers voice. There are psychological markers on the sound of ones voice, along with height that correlate with percieved leadership abilities.

For the record Justins biggest drawback isn't his wooden performance, or the hate of trudeau at west, its his general lack of knowlegde on the political scene. Despite being raised in a political family. Paul Martin reminders.

The one reason I liked Mulcair is he won't get shouted down,  he really does know his facts and it makes him a strong debater. Of course with the current debate style of reading scripts this is less evident. But Mulcair will do a lot more in the house thn Justin will (if he even wins). I know the media will keep pushing for the liberals, so the NDP will have to win on knowledge, not looks and propaganda.

thorin_bane

How does babble keep getting worse for software..double post.

Slumberjack

You'd think that the liberals would be quite practiced in the stagecraft of wooden performers.  By now people should expect this latest prop to be capable of speaking on his own without anyone else's lips moving.  Or their money back.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

The local CBC was gushing this morning in their reporting on Justin's Richmond speaking engagement where he dragged his Mom out for a photo op, just in case anyone forgot he has some distant connection to the province. I turned it off when they started interviewing a woman who said she hadn't voted for 15 years but when she heard about Justin she was now going to get involved and do everything she could for the new messiah.  Also the organizers set up a room to hold about a third of the number of people one would expect at a contested nomination and the CBC dutifully reported on the full room as a sign of his strength.

lagatta

Oh, that is ghastly. Believe Mum Margaret lives here in Montréal now, to be close to the grandkids and all. I dunno how I feel about that either, as Margaret is a fragile person, but it is her decision.

Justin also studied and taught in BC, but it remains a fairly tenuous connection, in political terms.

JeffWells

Justin Trudeau: Northern Gateway pipeline a ‘good idea,’ but Enbridge needs a ‘better plan’

 

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1266600--justin-trud...

 

That's just so Liberal of him.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

His Grandfather James Sinclair was the last BC'er with any political clout or name power on his Mother's side and he was in office as an MP from 1940 until 1958 and died in 1984.  He was the Minister of Fisheries for 5 years before being defeated in the Diefenbaker sweep.

It looks to me a lot like clutching at straws to find a hometown boy connection but then I am biased unlike the CBC.  Cool

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Wow she campaigned with Sinclair in 1958 or was it an earlier election?  That's only 55 years ago.  In 1958 Metro Vancouver had less than 800,000 people and in 2011 it had over 2.3 million. Yes his roots run deep .  LMAO

Quote:

Justin Trudeau’s aunt, Betsy Dening, said her nephew’s roots run deep in British Columbia. As someone who has campaigned with her father, Liberal MP James Sinclair, and her brother-in-law, the former prime minister, Dening said her nephew will surprise many people.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1266600--justin-trud...

 

 

NDPP

Justin would be the perfect pinhead PM for an increasingly stupid country...

Lou Arab Lou Arab's picture

Two reasons to NOT take Huffington Post seriously - they site Trudeau's hair and boxing skills as reasons to take him seriously. #teenagejesus

 

mark_alfred

I don't know.  Perhaps having pretty celebrity leaders should be the new model for political parties.  To accompany the Justin Trudeau Liberals, the Conservatives could replace Harper with Ben Mulroney and the NDP could replace Mulcair with Kiefer Sutherland or Sarah Polley.

lagatta

Kropotkin, don't you mean the last BC Liberal?

nicky

As for JT's BC roots, in addition to his mother's background, I think JT taught schooll in Point Grey for a couple years

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

I <3 JT!

socialdemocrati...

If we're counting on voter knowledge to stop a Liberal resurgence, we're pretty much screwed.

There has to be a simple counter narrative to "Trudeau the Second, Obama of the North". Considering his repeated career flake-outs, he has far more in common with George Bush's resume. But that's going to be a hard comparison to sell to a media that sees the Liberals as left-wing.

lagatta

Justin isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, but he isn't quite as boneheaded as Dubya (I presume you mean that George Bush). At least he is articulate, about nothing much, in both official languages.

He is the type of guy who tries to ingratiate himself with his audience, large or small. I remember him at a community groups event here (in Villeray - I live a couple of blocks south of his riding now) and as I was the representative of a local tenants' association at the information tables, he was going on about how we needed a "rather more" progressive government in Ottawa that would be "more" attuned to housing problems. I didn't react, just went on with the fact that we were calling for x more social housing units in the neighbourhood and a full restoration of Federal (and Québec) funding.

Obviously, a politician has to do that to some extent, but it was too "naked" - it was clear that he would have said exactly the opposite to a crowd of real-estate speculators.

I'm sure there are things we could elect Justin Trudeau to on the basis his hair and boxing prowess, but it would be Mr Somethingorother 2012 and he'd have to wear a retro Speedo and a really tacky sash.

6079_Smith_W

Catchfire wrote:
I <3 JT!

Okay, I get it now. I was trying to figure out what you being less than three Justin Trudeaus was supposed to mean.

On the plus side, he has demonstrated that the state has no business in the boxing rings of the nation.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

NDPP wrote:

Justin would be the perfect pinhead PM for an increasingly stupid country...

I totally agree. Can't wait for Quebec to break away and be free of those dolts.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

lagatta wrote:

Kropotkin, don't you mean the last BC Liberal?

I think you missed the part that referenced his Mother's side.  No Sinclair has been a major force since her Daddy James in the '50's.

People out here know the Trudeau name but even with Pierre that didn't lead to any Liberal dominance of BC. During the '68 Trudeau mania he did win 16 seats in BC but in '72 the total dropped to 4.  The rose on his lapel lost its bloom in BC long before he left politics.

Having said that the Charter is considered his lasting achievement and that is I think where any residual warmth for the name comes from.

6079_Smith_W

Boom Boom wrote:

NDPP wrote:

Justin would be the perfect pinhead PM for an increasingly stupid country...

I totally agree. Can't wait for Quebec to break away and be free of those dolts.

Now hold on a sec... You're taking him with you. That's part of the deal.

(at least he seems to think so, given his comments on the subject)

ElizaQ ElizaQ's picture

nicky wrote:

As for JT's BC roots, in addition to his mother's background, I think JT taught schooll in Point Grey for a couple years

 

He lived there for several years before that.  He went to school at UBC for his education degree.   When I lived there I worked with him while he was doing it.  

This whole thing has rather a surreal air to it for me as I knew him as just a normal everyday person. Many of us didn't even know who he was until a few months later and it wasn't a big deal at all.  I think I only ever had a conversation about his family and history once when over beers someone asked whether he had met any famous people and who his favorite was. Lasted all of 5 mins as it seemed to be something he really didn't like talking about. 

I really haven't paid too much attention to him since he got into politics.  It's just too strange. lol 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

lagatta wrote:
Oh, that is ghastly. Believe Mum Margaret lives here in Montréal now, to be close to the grandkids and all. I dunno how I feel about that either, as Margaret is a fragile person, but it is her decision.

Margaret was the greatest story of personal victimhood of any of the major figures of the Trudeau era...probably, it will be good for her to be near the grandchildren.  I'm not sure if it's appropriate to say anything critical about her at all.  She should just be left alone to find whatever personal healing she can find.

Brachina

ElizaQ wrote:

nicky wrote:

As for JT's BC roots, in addition to his mother's background, I think JT taught schooll in Point Grey for a couple years

 

He lived there for several years before that.  He went to school at UBC for his education degree.   When I lived there I worked with him while he was doing it.  

This whole thing has rather a surreal air to it for me as I knew him as just a normal everyday person. Many of us didn't even know who he was until a few months later and it wasn't a big deal at all.  I think I only ever had a conversation about his family and history once when over beers someone asked whether he had met any famous people and who his favorite was. Lasted all of 5 mins as it seemed to be something he really didn't like talking about. 

I really haven't paid too much attention to him since he got into politics.  It's just too strange. lol 

Why would you pay attention, he hasn't done anything worth paying attention too. This is the,weirdest thing I've ever seen in my Life. Its like the world's critical thinking skills went to sleep. Where is the media asking why wait till now to show substance when he's been an MP for how many years? Wasn't the time to show substance when he was elected as an MP.

The fawning over Justin is sicking.

lagatta

I agree with Ken. Margaret seems reasonably happy in Mtl, near the kids, and in a large, anonymous city which also has a lot of charming spots. The seems reasonably happy is from a Chatelaine or Châtelaine interview (forget whether it was in the French or English version) not snooping or conjecture.

mark_alfred

Most people who don't follow politics too closely think Trudeau is a bit of a light-weight, and haven't noticed the media's fawning over him.  Despite the media's fawning and rumours of his impending entry into the race, the polls have remained consistent.  So, I don't think it's any worry.  If anything, the Trudeau name will bring back some of the immigrant vote that went to the Conservatives last time, which will help in the end result of getting them out of office.  Or, perhaps, Trudeau's presence will have no major effect on the votes, and the Liberals will continue to stagnate.  Either way, I don't foresee the NDP having any major problem with him as Liberal leader. 

clambake

CBC comment samples:

Quote:
As soon as my 17 yr old son heard Justin was running he spent the night researching and watching youtube videos on him. Any politian who can inspire my son to do that is right in my books.

*rolleyes*

David Young

I guess Dominic LeBlanc would rather be first mate on the Good Ship Liberal and let Captain Justin steer the ship towards it's doom than try to become leader and be a foot-note in Canadian history.

Pub Trivia 2067...

Canadian Bicentennial Questionaire

Name the last leader of the Liberal Party of Canada before it ceased being relevant on the federal political scene?

Anyone???

Oh, well.  Next question...!

 

autoworker autoworker's picture

clambake wrote:

CBC comment samples:

Quote:
As soon as my 17 yr old son heard Justin was running he spent the night researching and watching youtube videos on him. Any politian who can inspire my son to do that is right in my books.

*rolleyes*

Justin was conceived for YouTube (or visa versa): Trudeaumania 2.0! The Liberals can raise millions just on merchandising...t-shirts, key rings, fridge magnets, school binders, lunch boxes, happy meals...

Sean in Ottawa

I agree there should be a strategy for dealing with the Trudeau obsession:

Lucky for us it is similar to what we should be doing if Justin were not there. In fact, all this does is create more urgency to do what we should be done.

So here it is in a nutshell:

Recognize Trudeau has weaknesses:

- he actually has little in common with most Canadians

- he does not want to address substance and likely would not do well if he tried to (not that he cannot be briefed but inconsistencies would be exposed and the myth shattered

- the Cons will go after him and he will attract critics as well as boosters

- his party is the third party

- exposure to him undoes the mystique and over exposure now will ultimately make him old news by the time of the eventual election

So the strategy would be:

1) Rather than wait for the election the NDP must contrast by showing substance. The party does not need to release a platform so that substance can be for the next year nothing more than a series of potential policies and questions, consultations and grass roots mulling. The party could launch the greatest series of public consultations on specific ideas we have ever seen. The series should have a catchy name and the party should create this open consultation /public discussion in communities across the country and get this discussion going without committing the NDP to specifics but right now. If the NDP launches this before Trudeau becomes leader then Trudeau will appear to copy the NDP if he tries to do the same thing-- so this cannot wait. The party should have this series open and ongoing. The party should be engaging and responding to what people are saying. If people attack the party they should be just as willing to let that be visible because we will win on the process-- of course the party can respond by making arguments when attacked.

2) When it comes to personal attacks and nastiness the NDP should be very clean. The personal attacks on Trudeau will come from the Conservatives. The NDP should create an ongoing list of ways the Harper government is harming you with specifics-- avoiding the personal but going after the policies. This should be branded as everything else so it is highly recognizable. the party could also promote a fact checking site-- essentially a place where the Harper government lies are gathered. But this should not be fluffed up with unimportant volume -- really just the most important things that people will recognize are serious. Everything should be vetted by people who have the discipline to see things in a less partisan way -- like the audience so we are not just crowing to ourselves.

3) The party should respond when attacked every time.

4) The party must have a strong earned media strategy where there is a constant substantive effort to be heard that avoids unimportant issues

5) The party should focus on a couple important economic policies and have those out there now -- even if they are copied that is okay. The issue is that we make it clear that we are claiming the economy as our issue. Again these can come from or be tested in the early consultation process

6) The party must engage in the creation of a comprehensive plan for democratic renewal including proportional representation. We must take the high road on this and be clear about what would improve the system. The result should be a manifesto for democratic renewal. This can come out of a round of public consultation. This has to be branded-- there should be a clear look and slogan that is repeated throughout-- we want people to get to know the process and recognize it.

7) The party must continue a strong campaign to get the leader to connect more, look natural etc. But also look like a leader so emphasize his team leadership skills rather than present him as a lone actor.

 

autoworker autoworker's picture

@Sean in Ottawa: I agree with most of what you just posted, with the exception of the timing of releasing policy specifics. I believe the NDP should be upfront with its platform, and be candid with it's positions on the Clarity Act, Bill 101 and it's proposed application to federal public service and regulated industries in Quebec, along with it's ME foreign policy (particularly Iran). Procurement and trade policies are also topics than need to be discussed more robustly (who gets the benefits, specifically).

josh

The latest Canadian Press Harris-Decima survey released Friday says 36 per cent of those who took part in the poll across the country last week said they would be certain or likely to vote Liberal in the next election if Trudeau is at the party's helm.

The poll says he would get "significant support" east of Manitoba, with 40 per cent of those surveyed in Ontario, 43 per cent in Quebec and 48 per cent in Atlantic Canada indicating they would be certain or likely to vote for the Liberals if Trudeau is leading the party.

http://www.570news.com/news/national/article/408980--poll-says-trudeau-could-shake-up-federal-politics-as-he-wins-key-endorsement

 

Stockholm

autoworker wrote:
I believe the NDP should be upfront with its platform, and be candid with it's positions on the Clarity Act, Bill 101 and it's proposed application to federal public service and regulated industries in Quebec, along with it's ME foreign policy (particularly Iran). Procurement and trade policies are also topics than need to be discussed more robustly (who gets the benefits, specifically).

The NDP has been 100% crystal clear on all of the following. They believe that the Clarity Act is irrelevant since it has been superseded by the reference to the Supreme Court which has already made a ruling accepted by everyone  on the rules around any province seceding. They believe that Quebecers who work in federally regulated workplaces should have a right to work in their own language - just like everyone working in provincially regulated workplaces. The policy on Iran is that sanctions and pressure should continue on Iran to discourage any attempt to develop nuclear weapons, but they are totally opposed to any foreign invasion of Iran. Take it or leave it!

I wish you the best of luck trying to figure out where Justin Trudeau stands on any of the issues.

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

josh wrote:

The latest Canadian Press Harris-Decima survey released Friday says 36 per cent of those who took part in the poll across the country last week said they would be certain or likely to vote Liberal in the next election if Trudeau is at the party's helm.

The poll says he would get "significant support" east of Manitoba, with 40 per cent of those surveyed in Ontario, 43 per cent in Quebec and 48 per cent in Atlantic Canada indicating they would be certain or likely to vote for the Liberals if Trudeau is leading the party.

http://www.570news.com/news/national/article/408980--poll-says-trudeau-could-shake-up-federal-politics-as-he-wins-key-endorsement

 

So what you are saying is that because the Tories are so bad, people, remembering a time that didn't exist, will allow back into the power the same guys who were doing what Harper is doing, only not as quickly. If that is so, it is sad, and leads feeling nothing but contempt for the average voting Canadain. Flash before susbstance eh? Good luck with that.

socialdemocrati...

One of the narratives that's already taking hold is that Trudeau represents a "reboot" for the Liberal party, devoid of any of the corruption and entitlement that led to their downfall.

Trudeau’s rebels not about ‘renewal’: They mean to start from scratch

what can we surmise about Trudeau’s likely policy direction from the composition of his team? Its pivotal figures, though some might dispute such a characterization, are Butts, Telford, McNair and Sacha Trudeau. As a group they are progressive, environmentalist and internationalist, but with a pragmatic tilt. If “youthful over-achiever” were a political party, all four would be charter members.

Butts is a governor of McGill University and president and CEO of the World Wildlife Fund, Canada. He has a Master’s degree in English Literature from McGill; while there he twice won national debating championships. In addition to having served nearly a decade as principal secretary to Ontario premier Dalton McGuinty, Butts wrote the Ontario Liberal policy platforms in their first two winning elections.

Telford, a new mother with a 15-month-old son, is a consultant at Toronto-based Strategy Corp. She cut her teeth as chief of staff to Gerard Kennedy, when he was Ontario education minister. After Kennedy’s failed bid for the federal Liberal party leadership, Telford went to work for the new leader, Stephane Dion. She was a Liberal negotiator in the ultimately unsuccessful coalition talks between the Liberals and New Democrats in 2008.

McNair is a former investment banker for CIBC World Markets, with a Master’s degree in global economic history from the London School of Economics and another in international and public affairs from Columbia University. He was a policy adviser to Dion and Michael Ignatieff. He will travel with Trudeau and is the team’s key policy hand.

Most intriguing of all, perhaps, is Alexandre “Sacha” Trudeau’s role. At 38, the middle Trudeau son is a documentary filmmaker and journalist (the youngest, Michel, died in an avalanche accident in 1998). Though Sacha is less outgoing than his brother, his work has long been passionately political, in a nuanced way. He was an outspoken critic of the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq.

In 2003, Sacha told The Gazette in Montreal, “I’m not a Liberal. I’m apolitical.”

His apolitical brother aside... his team is still a bunch of insiders who worked closely with Dion, Ignatieff, and McGuinty. That's not really enough to incriminate them, but it's not exactly a huge movement of reform either.

But if people on this site wanted to do a little more digging, it's possible we might have a narrative that shows Trudeau is really just a young face for old ideas and career politicians.

Anyone want to see what they can dig up on these folks?

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Stockholm wrote:

The policy on Iran is that sanctions and pressure should continue on Iran to discourage any attempt to develop nuclear weapons, but they are totally opposed to any foreign invasion of Iran. Take it or leave it!

I wish you the best of luck trying to figure out where Justin Trudeau stands on any of the issues.

i suspect that Justin will have much the same imperial stand on Iran.  Quite the thing for a party that is supposed to be about working people and social justice to be supporting sanctions that are making real people in Iran suffer merely to discourage something that Iran says they aren't doing and don't want to build.  The kicker is that all independent sources say the Iranians are not trying to build a nuclear bomb but the thought of it is enough for progressives to call for the punishment the working people of Iran.  Apparently those people are of no concern to social democrats.

Ready Aye Ready is the cry coming from all sides of the House of Commons.

 

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

On P&P tonight: someone said a Trudeau candidacy will cause splits - and the Cons will get an even bigger majority next time.

 

clambake

Depressing thought. Almost makes me want to tune out politics entirely.

adma

Boom Boom wrote:

On P&P tonight: someone said a Trudeau candidacy will cause splits - and the Cons will get an even bigger majority next time.

Or else, if we're looking at a mid-high 30s percentile for the Libs, a "phony Liberal majority"--Con votes being wasted in the West, etc...

Pages