Hybrid Vehicles

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Agent 204 Agent 204's picture

quote:


Originally posted by lagatta:
[b]Yes, but I'm interested in to what extent hybrids can be feasable in rural and outlying regions (such as farmpunk's, our yours), where people actually need private motor vehicles.

I can't really support them in cities, (except for taxis, public transport, delivery etc) because I think private cars should be abolished here - which would require much better - and more accessible - public transport. And better town planning, retrofitting sprawl as urbanity.[/b]


Hybrids excel in the city, but on the highway, a good diesel beats most hybrids hands down. My dad has a VW Jetta TDI with a 5 speed standard transmission, and on the highway that thing uses only about 4.7 L/100 km (60 miles per Imperial gallon for the old folk, 50 miles per US gallon for the Americans). That's better than most hybrids do on the highway.

Nevertheless, in the real world we aren't going to get cars out of cities overnight, so in the meantime it's a lot better to have people using hybrids than conventional gas engines, and somewhat better even than most diesels. And if we manage to achieve (mostly) carless cities in another decade or two, so much the better, but in the meantime hybrids will also serve as an excellent transitional technology. In the long run, electric cars may be good enough to be suitable for small towns and rural areas, but hybrids are an important step in developing EV technology.

Sven Sven's picture

Given the cost differential between a hybrid and a conventional internal combustion engine, even at current petrol prices it will, for most hybrids, take several years of driving to make up that cost differential.

I think most people buy the hybrids simply because, as an alternative to conventional ICEs, they produce less GHGs and, for them, it's the preferable choice.

Agent 204 Agent 204's picture

Could be. Fuel prices are starting to influence people's decisions now, though, and I expect them to continue to increase in the near future. Even if price isn't enough to motivate people to change now, it likely will pretty soon.

Sven Sven's picture

quote:


Originally posted by Agent 204:
[b]Could be. Fuel prices are starting to influence people's decisions now, though, and I expect them to continue to increase in the near future. Even if price isn't enough to motivate people to change now, it likely will pretty soon.[/b]

Well, even if it doesn't make monetary sense (at the moment) to buy a hybrid, I do think that many people are buying hybrids because they have the impression that the money saved in gas will quickly outweigh the additional up-front cost of buying the hybrid in the first place. I just think a lot of people don't do the simple math. So, maybe it's not just a concern with GHGs. In any event, they are incredibly popular and, as a result, it's difficult (at the moment) to even buy a hybrid.

NorthReport

Hybrid vehicles are a con job on an unsuspecting public that wants to feel good about doing something positive for the environment as well as saving money on their fuel bills.

The reduction in amount of gas used are nowhere near what the car manufacturers have advertised. Not even 50% of what they have promoted. It is all lies and deceit.

What a shame! what a con job! What a huge diservice to those who thought they were doing something positive.

abnormal

As for the idea that hybrid cars are somehow going to save the planet, that'a not clear.

http://www.goldengatexpress.org/2013/04/21/hybrid-cars/

Rev Pesky

The Toyota Prius is a great option for a cab owner. That's why you see so many of them in the cab fleet. In Vancouver there almost isn't anything else. Typically they're getting 400-500 thousand kms on a car. In speaking with a cab driver, I asked what the difference was for him. He said about $700 a month less for fuel. That's certainly nothing to sneeze at, and that was in Victoria. Likely a fair bit more in Vancouver.

 

Of course most of that driving is the stop and go of city driving, and that is where the hybrid excels. It's a pretty good system really, using the weight of the vehicle while decelerating to charge the battery. Not as good on the highway of course. There it's basically a 4-cylinder gasoline engine, getting roughly the mileage a 4-cylinder would get.

 

There is the problem of the batteries, but that is also a problem with fully electric cars. At the same time, the hybrid doesn't need special refill stations because it's charging the electric with the existing gasoline engine.

 

As one who has worked in the car business (since retired) my experience is the hybrid electric is the best use of resources, especially when used primarily in the city, and especially when driven many kms, as a cab is.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

NorthReport wrote:

Hybrid vehicles are a con job on an unsuspecting public that wants to feel good about doing something positive for the environment as well as saving money on their fuel bills.

The reduction in amount of gas used are nowhere near what the car manufacturers have advertised. Not even 50% of what they have promoted. It is all lies and deceit.

What a shame! what a con job! What a huge diservice to those who thought they were doing something positive.

As someone who has owned a Prius since 2006 and my wife has owned an Escape hybrid since 2007 I can say you are blowinng smoke out your ass. Both my wife and I have heavy gas feet and the Prius averages 6 litres per 100 kilometres, the Escape comes in at 8 per 100.  The Tribute it replaced used 14 per 100.  Now that both the vehicles have over 100,000 kms on them I can say definitively say that the gas savings far exceded the extra cost of the vehicles.

The Escape Hybrid was cheaper than the Four Wheel drive of the same model.  Talk about a scam on the public. The Hybrid has two power systems and they drive the axles separately. We have what is effectively a Four Wheel drive vehicle and get at least 40% better gas consumption numbers than idiots who bought a Fourwhll drive and we paid less up front.

lagatta

That is great to know, but at the same time we have to develop electric or hybrid vehicles with more autonomy as part of the necessary move to cities that are no longer carcentric (which doesn't imply NO private motor vehicles; they do exist in places like Amsterdam and Copenhagen, but are a minority of trips). There will probably always be some need for motor vehicles (and not just farm equipment) in more rural and wilderness communities, even though it is important to design them better as was the case 100 years ago (most cores of small rural towns, at least in the east of the continent. are eminently walkable) and provide transport to people unable to drive, even in small places (this could indeed involve taxi-like services). The car can be a useful tool; its legacy of earth-destroying environmental destruction and a very heavy death and injury toll is testimony to its misuse.

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