MMIWG issues final report

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WWWTT
MMIWG issues final report

I don’t see myself as the most qualified babbler to be starting a thread about the Indigenous people’s of the Western Hemisphere. So don’t let that stop anyone from posting 

Here’s the link 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/mmiwg-inquiry-deliver-final-report-justice-reforms-1.5158223

 

WWWTT

Here’s two sections of the report that will send it down the burning ring of fire

2.1 Acknowledge, recognize, and protect the rights of Indigenous Peoples to their cultures and languages as constitutionally protected inherent rights.

2.2 Recognize Indigenous languages as official languages, with the same status, recognition, and protection provided to French and English.

taken from here

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/mmiwg-inquiry-report-1.5158385#Justice

Canadian government isn’t going to tinker around with the charter! This is because the rights of Canadians (according to the government) is not as important as Canada preserving the current status quo. 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Languages fall under the Official Languages Act, so they could revisit that easily enough.  The other rights wouldn't need to be added to the Constitution if the existing Constitution were interpreted so as to ensure them.

WWWTT

I heard from ctv tv news that the report suggested the constitution be amended. But I can’t find it in the links I provided. 

Also, during Justins address at the Report release, he wouldn’t use the word genocide. And apparently this drew some criticism. 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

I hope that something happens. I personally thought that we had figured it all out with this report. To bad it has never been implemented. Hell I'll bet many of the suggestions have been recycled from it because we don't need any more fucking reports we need action.

https://www.aadnc-aandc.gc.ca/eng/1100100014597/1100100014637

WWWTT

Thanks for posting that report kropotkin. A lot of it is actually a rewriting of history by the victors.

swallow swallow's picture

The constitution affirms existing Aboriginal rights. So no need to re-open. 

Official language rights are easy to legislate. Well, not easily, because there are plenty of asshole Senators who will block and stall, but easy in theory. 

Pondering

So how are we going to translate all government documentation into these languages? How will we find judges that speak so many languages? 

https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2011/as-sa/98-314-x/98-314-x2011003_3-eng.cfm

Michif, the traditional language of the Métis, was reported as mother tongue by 640 people living mainly in Saskatchewan, Manitoba or Alberta.

Any of those 640 people qualified for the position of Supreme Court judge?  Can they also speak all the other indigenous languages plus French and English? 

So far I have yet to hear any concrete actions we can take to end the murders of indigenous women. I find myself agreeing with Harper on one score. We didn't need another study or inquiry. We know why indigenous women are more vulnerable and we know what needs to be done to even begin to stem the tide. Calling it genocide is satisfyingly dramatic but it won't save a single life. It's nothing more than theatrics. 

Pondering

kropotkin1951 wrote:

I hope that something happens. I personally thought that we had figured it all out with this report. To bad it has never been implemented. Hell I'll bet many of the suggestions have been recycled from it because we don't need any more fucking reports we need action.

https://www.aadnc-aandc.gc.ca/eng/1100100014597/1100100014637

Yup

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Pondering wrote:

So how are we going to translate all government documentation into these languages? How will we find judges that speak so many languages? 

https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2011/as-sa/98-314-x/98-314-x2011003_3-eng.cfm

Michif, the traditional language of the Métis, was reported as mother tongue by 640 people living mainly in Saskatchewan, Manitoba or Alberta.

Any of those 640 people qualified for the position of Supreme Court judge?  Can they also speak all the other indigenous languages plus French and English? 

It's a really good thing that a number of years ago simultaneous translations were invented.

Unionist

kropotkin1951 wrote:

It's a really good thing that a number of years ago simultaneous translations were invented.

True. The tools exist. But the first time simultaneous translation was ever provided for an Indigenous speech in the House of Commons was January 28, 2019. Our society has a long way to go, and we (settlers) are reluctant to take the first steps.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Strange though that people generally think it is okay that our PM needs to speak both official languages. Outside of Quebec the highest percentage of people who report French as their mother tongue is in the Yukon with 4.6%. BC is below average with 1.5%. Mother tongue is not the same as the number of people who can speak a language and our society already excludes the majority of people from many government positions because they do not speak one of either French or English. Federations are supposed to be places were minority rights are protected so it would seem that Indigenous nations need to be respected as well.

Unionist

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Strange though that people generally think it is okay that our PM needs to speak both official languages.

Yeah, why is it so important that the PM speak English? I don't get it. They generally just open their mouths and proceed to embarrass themselves.

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Outside of Quebec the highest percentage of people who report French as their mother tongue is in the Yukon with 4.6%. 

Do you really believe that the over 30% of New Brunswickers who identify as Francophone had something else as their "mother tongue"? Please cite your source for these claims.

Badriya

Thanks for posting, Unionist.  I was just checking on the percentage, which is 32-33% of New Brunswickers, mostly Acadians.

zazzo

Pondering wrote: "We know why indigenous women are more vulnerable and we know what needs to be done to even begin to stem the tide."  

I'd be interested in Pondering letting us know who the 'we' is, the why, and what needs to be done.  I've just started reading the report, and it is going to take awhile.

NDPP
WWWTT

His name is Justin I think?

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Unionist wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Strange though that people generally think it is okay that our PM needs to speak both official languages.

Yeah, why is it so important that the PM speak English? I don't get it. They generally just open their mouths and proceed to embarrass themselves.

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Outside of Quebec the highest percentage of people who report French as their mother tongue is in the Yukon with 4.6%. 

Do you really believe that the over 30% of New Brunswickers who identify as Francophone had something else as their "mother tongue"? Please cite your source for these claims.

You seem to have missed this essential part of what I was trying to say.

"Federations are supposed to be places were minority rights are protected so it would seem that Indigenous nations need to be respected as well."

Unionist for someone who reserves the right to use sarcasm when you feel like it maybe you should try looking for it in your allys' posts instead of presuming the worst.

I was also trying to highlight the stupid use of the term mother tongue. In fact it, like many of the things Pondering spews is a ridiculous and nearly meaningless term but it actually is a term of art in our demographic profile. Here is the cite I am using for those so easily offended by statistics.

https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/lang-tab-eng.cfm

If you want to talk about how many people can speak the language then you need to look at this chart. By the way BC has more people that speak both official languages than NB. BC is third because of pouplation I am sure and NB is fourth. Quebec has more bilingual speakers than all of Canada combined.

https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2011/dp-pd/hlt-fst/lang/P...

Unionist

Oh FFS krop, stop diverting. You made a mistake. You said, "Outside of Quebec the highest percentage of people who report French as their mother tongue is in the Yukon with 4.6%." In fact, your own source shows that 32% of New Brunswickers reported French as their "mother tongue". How about saying: "Sorry, I was wrong, typing too fast, whatever, but I maintain my principal points, which are as follows..." You made a mistake. I corrected it. You're welcome.

Pondering

zazzo wrote:

Pondering wrote: "We know why indigenous women are more vulnerable and we know what needs to be done to even begin to stem the tide."  

I'd be interested in Pondering letting us know who the 'we' is, the why, and what needs to be done.  I've just started reading the report, and it is going to take awhile.

They are more vulnerable because their communities were destroyed by systematic poor treatment for generations. The residential school system destroyed families and communties. A community with no young is a community with no future. Now entire communities are dysfunctional and hopeless. This has led to violence and abuse within the community. Women also turn to hitch-hiking to get around and for some survival prostitution. 

There is no quick fix. The kind of damage Canada has done can't be repaired. What has been done cannot be undone. The best we can do is work on reconcilliation including funding efforts to repair the damage. That means insuring decent housing, shelters from domestic violence, education, and health care as a bare minimum. 

swallow swallow's picture

Canada could try some of the report’s recommendations, there is lots that can be done there. 

JKR

Pondering wrote:

They are more vulnerable because their communities were destroyed by systematic poor treatment for generations. The residential school system destroyed families and communties. A community with no young is a community with no future. Now entire communities are dysfunctional and hopeless. This has led to violence and abuse within the community.

I think this description is too bleak. I have been to a couple of Reserves that are generally considered to be “impoverished” and faced with a lot of social challenges but I think that is just a small part of what those First Nations are about. On the Reserves I have been to I found that there was a lot of happiness, joy, and community spirit, at least as much as I have found in other parts of Canada. On those Reserves I also found that families were often closer knit than elsewhere. I also found that the people living on those Reserves were multi-faceted with all sorts of different interests and exceptional and inspiring insights and abilities.

Pondering

kropotkin1951 wrote:

I was also trying to highlight the stupid use of the term mother tongue. In fact it, like many of the things Pondering spews is a ridiculous and nearly meaningless term but it actually is a term of art in our demographic profile.

Please quote where I used the term "mother tongue" because I don't think I did. In any case it is simply a term that means the first language a person spoke. 

I don't think instantaneous translation is a part of language rights in Canada. Where will you find a Supreme Court Judge that speaks French, English, and numerous indigenous languages? Even just the main three languages. Approximately 5% of Canada's population is indigenous and they speak many different languages. From a practical perspective they can't be given even status with French and English. 

Doesn't the Truth and Reconcilliation Report have a long list of steps we must take, honoring treaties and such like? 

To me debating if indigenous languages should have the same status as French and English, or if French should have the status that it does, is like debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. It's very academic at a time when there are urgent changes that need to be made. The number of children in care in Manitoba is an ongoing tragedy. Among those children are the future missing and murdered women. 

There is no doubt in my mind that what has been done to indigenous people is horrific. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/indigenous-missing-murdered-women-genocide-trudeau-1.5162541

"My definition of genocide, I read it very deliberately at the start of the Rwandan genocide," he told CBC News. "And it was a deliberate act of a government to exterminate, deliberately and by force and directly, an ethnicity or a group of human beings. And that meant actually going and slaughtering people."

Dallaire said that the commissioners were right to highlight the systemic racism and double standards that have blighted the Indigenous experience in this country, and Canada's "horrible failure" to ensure that all its citizens are protected.

"That is scandalous and that is unacceptable in a country that has a Charter and believes that all humans are human," he said.

"Is that an act of genocide? Is it? Is it deliberate, do we want that to happen? Or is our government just that inept and has been that irresponsible to these people over all these years?

"I'm simply having a problem of going and leaping to an international convention on a definition of ... not only abuse of human rights, but mass atrocities and a deliberate aim by a government to destroy a society, to destroy an ethnicity, to eliminate it. That's what I lived through. And that's what I saw as a genocide."

I don't agree with Dallaire entirely but I do believe the word needs the qualifier of colonial genocide. I also think the debate over whether or not it is currently genocide is a distraction. 

Pondering

JKR wrote:

Pondering wrote:

They are more vulnerable because their communities were destroyed by systematic poor treatment for generations. The residential school system destroyed families and communties. A community with no young is a community with no future. Now entire communities are dysfunctional and hopeless. This has led to violence and abuse within the community.

I think this description is too bleak. I have been to a couple of Reserves that are generally considered to be “impoverished” and faced with a lot of social challenges but I think that is just a small part of what those First Nations are about. On the Reserves I have been to I found that there was a lot of happiness, joy, and community spirit, at least as much as I have found in other parts of Canada. On those Reserves I also found that families were often closer knit than elsewhere. I also found that the people living on those Reserves were multi-faceted with all sorts of different interests and exceptional and inspiring insights and abilities.

That some people on some reserves are doing better doesn't help the missing and murdered women nor the children removed from their families. As a whole the indigenous population is considerably worse off than the rest of us. 

NDPP

Bruce Clark: Immunity From Prosecution For Genocide

https://dissidentvoice.org/author/bruceclark/

"...As Daschuk did his Ph.D on the historical fact of genocide in Canada, I did mine on the constitutional history of precisely how the genocide was implemented specifically by the [politicians,] judges and lawyers of the country. At all material times since 1876 the Attorney General has been the architect and implementer of the legal state of affairs under which regime the unconstitutional genocide has been implemented, and as to which the judiciary and legal profession has maintained a steadfast and willful blindness.

Since 1876 the raising of the unconstitutionality and resulting genocide disappear from the historical record in so far at least of the judges and lawyers' role of implementing it. That is, it disappeared until 1973 when I raised the issue of indigenous sovereignty and the corresponding unconstitutional genocide resulting from ignoring it.

But each time I raised it the issue was ignored: simply not mentioned by any of the courts in which I raised it; until in 1999 I was disbarred for criminal contempt of court for having raised an issue that 'hectored' and scandalized the judiciary, on the false ground that every judge before whom I had raised the issue carefully and patiently had addressed the issue and the law identified in relation to it. If true, there would be a record of the judicial decisions in which that supposedly occurred. No such record exists. The issue was ignored and I was silenced on the false ground that it had been addressed.

Canada has moved on from the starvation identified by Daschuk. The mode of genocide today is no longer the direct 'killing' that is indicted by article 2(a) of the Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide. The form of genocide identified by my sovereigntist clients as ongoing is the 'serious bodily and mental harm' indicted by article 2(b) of the convention. The entrenched injustice of living under a system of justice that ignores the constitutional democracy under the rule of law causes angst and despair unto death as mirrored by the statistics..."

Also included in 'Ongoing Genocide Caused By Judicial Suppression of the 'Existing' Aboriginal Rights'. Clark (2018)

JKR

Pondering wrote:

JKR wrote:

Pondering wrote:

They are more vulnerable because their communities were destroyed by systematic poor treatment for generations. The residential school system destroyed families and communties. A community with no young is a community with no future. Now entire communities are dysfunctional and hopeless. This has led to violence and abuse within the community.

I think this description is too bleak. I have been to a couple of Reserves that are generally considered to be “impoverished” and faced with a lot of social challenges but I think that is just a small part of what those First Nations are about. On the Reserves I have been to I found that there was a lot of happiness, joy, and community spirit, at least as much as I have found in other parts of Canada. On those Reserves I also found that families were often closer knit than elsewhere. I also found that the people living on those Reserves were multi-faceted with all sorts of different interests and exceptional and inspiring insights and abilities.

That some people on some reserves are doing better doesn't help the missing and murdered women nor the children removed from their families. As a whole the indigenous population is considerably worse off than the rest of us. 

I think it’s obvious to everyone here on Babble that the situation for Canada’s First Nations population must be drastically improved.

NDPP

The Political Quagmire of the Prime Minister Accepting His Country's Complicity in Genocide

https://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/genocide-mmiwig-1.5164014

"...Indeed, Trudeau's acceptance that Canada is a genocidal nation inevitably weakens our moral authority when lecturing the Chinese about gender equity or the US vice-president about abortion access. One could make the case that we never had the moral authority to begin with, since Canada's treatment of Indigenous people doesn't suddenly become worse because it has a new name. But a label does change the perception of Canada in the eyes of other nations, especially when the Canadian prime minister confirms the label is accurate."